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Faith

The most and least religious schools in the country

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  • FatherOfFour WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 7:43 a.m.

    I noticed that the most religious schools were also the most LGBT-unfriendly.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    I noticed the least religious schools were also the most Dependent on Government.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    @FatherOfFour

    Define unfriendly?

  • Pendergast Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 8:19 a.m.

    What? That school on the hill isn't one of the least religious?

  • FatherOfFour WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 8:26 a.m.

    @Liberal Ted, The survey itself defines unfriendly and explains their scoring methodology. It is mostly centered around bullying, ostracism, and aggressive, confrontational behavior.

  • ArizonaMormon Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 6, 2014 8:49 a.m.

    Why doesn't BYU-Idaho ever make these lists, or the 'most-sober' lists. It's a separate university from BYU with its own, separate faculty and curriculum. It's not a small school either, with an enrollment of 15,000 it's bigger than a lot of more well-known schools.

  • Uncle Rico Sandy, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 9:32 a.m.

    @ Fatheroffour

    "I noticed that the most religious schools were also the most LGBT-unfriendly."

    FatherO'4

    I suspect thats because the Bible condemns that behavior. What do you think?
    Really, this isn't rocket science...

    Unless you intention was to once again bring in the LGBT issue.

  • FatherOfFour WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 10:03 a.m.

    @Uncle Rico,

    The bible condemns many things. Eating shellfish, pork, working on Sundays, and many others. However, the bible does not teach you to treat others badly. That's actually the opposite of what it teaches.

  • Uncle Rico Sandy, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 10:18 a.m.

    @fatheroffour

    I'm not sure where you are going with this..
    I said nothing about treating people badly, only that the Bible condemns that behavior.
    It is possible to love all, and treat others with respect and still understand what the Bible clearly teaches.
    As far a shellfish etc, I don't know why that's in the Bible, but I not confused on the weightier matters it teaches.

    nice try.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 10:39 a.m.

    @FatherOfFour

    Nobody is being treated badly. I realize that in many places throughout the world their are some individuals who believe the hatred way is the way to go. However, this is towards gays, race, religion, etc. But to single out an entire university and say they are treated badly falls on the line of uneducated. There just so happens to be a large contingent of LGBT at BYU who seem to get along very well and enjoy their college experience there. However, there are the select few who choose to make up their own problems to victimize themselves, and portray others as the hater. Just as is being done here. To be argumentative and pull out the shellfish, pork, etc only shows an antagonizing nature to create a problem, situation, or argument. This is not an entitlement society, therefore, people with race, LGBT, etc. issues, need to quit trying to vindicate themselves when their is no issues such the one of gays and BYU. The article simply states that BYU is a religious university based on their students, that's all. But have a great day anyway!

  • Steve in Ohio Galloway, OH
    Aug. 6, 2014 10:51 a.m.

    @fatheroffour

    You must have purchased the full report, I can't find the definitions to which you refer about LGBT unfriendly from the links in the article. Point taken that likely there are those at the most religious schools who need to improve how they treat others. However, a ranking based on a survey doesn't allow one to draw broad conclusions and paint the students at the school with a broad brush. When a behavior is not allowed at a given school, it is likely not perceived as a friendly place by those who practice that behavior or feel a desire to practice that behavior.

  • ArizonaMormon Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 6, 2014 11:43 a.m.

    Fatheroffour,
    Criticize LDS teachings all you want, I welcome the discussion. But, at least try to understand LDS theology first. Prohibitions against many otherwise random-seeming things were part of the Law of Moses, which was fulfilled upon the coming of Christ. Christians thereafter were no longer bound to Jewish dietary laws and other specifics in the Law of Moses. Teachings on chastity, including condemnation of homosexual behavior, were not only a part of the law of Moses and were indeed taught in the New Testament after the Law of Moses was fulfilled. Furthermore, LDS teachings are not based solely on the Bible but also on the teachings of modern church leaders who receive revelation from God for the Church.

  • OneWifeOnly San Diego, CA
    Aug. 6, 2014 11:46 a.m.

    @Steve in Ohio, you don't have to purchase the report but you do have to register with a legitimate email, snail mail and phone number. After that you can view all the ranking categories and there are links from there that you can surf to understand how the rankings are compiled.

    Here is what their web site has to say about the LBGT-Friendly/Unfriendly category: "Both lists are based on students' answers to the survey question: "Do students, faculty, and administrators at your college treat all persons equally regardless of their sexual orientations and gender identity/expression?"

    Seems to me no surprise that the schools ranked highest in the category "most religious" are also highest in the category "most LGBT-unfriendly" as that mimics real world. These schools are also ranked high in the category "stone-cold-sober" and "Got Milk". Basically LDS Owned BYU campus mimics the teachings of the church that owns the university.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 12:22 p.m.

    @FatherOfFour

    If you go along with Bible, it also doesn't allow you to condone homosexual relationships.

    You can be nice to homosexuals. However, religious people are not going to change their standards so other people feel good. Mormons are not going to allow alcohol in their church, so people attending a wedding and who aren't Mormons themselves, feel good about coming. They're not going to compromise their standards.

    If a cross dresser doesn't feel welcomed, because they are not allowed to cross dress....that is something they need to think about before signing the dotted line.

    I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement. But, both sides of the aisle could try and respect each other a little bit more.

    When the two gay men were drunk and decided to make a scene on Temple Square, of course that behavior isn't welcomed. It wouldn't be welcomed if it were a couple dating, married couple, man and woman, woman and woman etc.

    Until you distinguish the reasons why they didn't feel welcomed, you can't put an assumption on it.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    If I own a private business and post a "No Skateboarding Allowed" sign. Does that make me un-friendly to skateboarders? What if I post "No Shop Lifting", does that make me un-friendly to customers? What if I post "No soliciting" at my home, does that make me un-friendly to small business? What if I post "Cash Only" am I un-friendly to credit cards and checks?

    Could I still be friendly in all of those scenarios, still be a welcoming place and still maintain the rules that I have set?

    Do you have to accept behaviors, addictions, attitudes and go along with it to be considered friendly?

    Maybe the United States is un-friendly requiring people to get shots etc before entering the country. Would we be better off with open borders? Are we better off with the illegals entering now?

    What about a gay bar? They're un-friendly to straight people.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 12:38 p.m.

    Good for BYU and the other schools for turning out an educated, religious, group of people. It's always nice to see young people who are not afraid to stand up for their values.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 12:42 p.m.

    @UtahBruin
    " there are the select few who choose to make up their own problems to victimize themselves"

    While it is wrong to characterize all BYU students as anti-gay, it's just as wrong to believe that there is no bigotry against gays at BYU.

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 1:16 p.m.

    To Father of Four, I wouldn't confuse unfriendly with staying true to one's values. We can believe what it says in Romans chapter one, and still love one another. It wouldn't hurt for all of us to increase our level of kindness, and I suspect that could apply to you as well.

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Aug. 6, 2014 1:59 p.m.

    'Father of Four' is getting his opinion crushed.

    What can I say?....he deserved it; if you say foolish things in public you deserve to have it corrected in public.

    (PS - Notice I said his "opinion" is being shown as faulty, not "him" personally.)

    As far as the article goes, I'm proud that BYU leads the way in being listed as the most religious university. I can't see/open a link to find the most un-religious schools but I'd bet a large sum of money they are schools where liberal philosophy permeates the entire campus.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    Aug. 6, 2014 2:05 p.m.

    And I thought that the idea behind higher education was to educate, not indoctrinate.

    Hmmm, guess I have it wrong.

  • Samson01 S. Jordan, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 2:07 p.m.

    Notice the word bigotry being used...inflammatory.

    definition of bigotry: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

    Once again the straw man of being a victim. This is what and how the LGBT community promote their cause. You cannot disagree with them without having an extreme label thrown at you. Ironically, if you use an extreme label about the promoters of the LGBT agenda, your comment gets censored.

    Double standard.

    As for BYU being the most religious school...That is by design. There are a plethora of schools available. No one who signs up to go to BYU should expect anything else.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    Aug. 6, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    @Liberal Ted, who told you that gay bars were unfriendly to straights? My husband and I have never had that experience, and we have visited many a gay tavern.

    And Arizona Mormon, the only mention of homosexuality in the New Testament is in the writings of Paul. You remember him? The guy who thought women should be silent in church and had no problems with slavery.

    Calling yourself a follower of Jesus does not make you one.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 2:48 p.m.

    to A Guy With A Brain

    Truth hurts or is it the wicked take the truth to be hard? Let us not bring up the Golden rule.

    I could not help but notice Notre Dame isn't one of the schools listed.

  • Uncle Rico Sandy, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 3:20 p.m.

    @ ordinray folk

    "And I thought that the idea behind higher education was to educate, not indoctrinate."

    So religious people are indoctrinated not educated?
    That is what you are implying.
    I guess we should all be grateful people like you are around to save poor uneducated souls like me.
    Here's the funny thing..
    Without religion society falls apart, why because many of our laws are unenforceable, meaning there are not enough law enforcement officers to stop people from killing, raping and oppressing others. Religion teaches killing is bad (It's called The 10 commandments) these "norms" you take for granted are religious based. I suggest the next time you make comments you really should think things through first.

  • GameTheory Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 3:27 p.m.

    The correlation between most religious and most un-friendly to LBGT is understandable from what the bible says… I can't believe that people justify this. The bible has absolutely no authority or credibility when it comes to morals as a whole. Many times god performed, or condoned, murder of innocent lives, does that make it ok? The correct answer is; absolutely not.
    I can respect religious Universities in their own right, but i rightfully don't respect any institution or set of believes that discriminates on behalf of a bronze age piece of literature that says its ok to do so.

  • ArizonaMormon Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 6, 2014 4:16 p.m.

    Ordinaryfolks,
    The LDS Church operates universities where students who are committed to LDS standards can obtain an education in an educational and social environment conducive to the life those students have chosen for themselves. Other universities have different objectives and missions. This is a good thing for the sake of diversity and pluralism in American society. Different people choose different environments in which pursue their higher education. Religious schools are going to educate according to their religion. Other schools will educate in accordance with their driving principles. I suppose you could call it indoctrination, but that word carries a negative weight that is disingenuous at best. Would you suggest that higher learning institutions should have no agenda at all?

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    @ Frozen Factals

    I never said there wasn't any. I was only trying to address the specific attack is all. Sorry this was not clear.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 4:54 p.m.

    re:Liberal Ted

    great observation! You are correct.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 5:11 p.m.

    re:GameTheory

    "The bible has absolutely no authority or credibility when it comes to morals as a whole"

    Wow - that's a head scratcher for sure. The idea of "morality" certainly didn't come from the pagan Romans but it did come from a certain carpenter who grew to maturity during Roman rule and was crucified for his claim of being the son of God. Morality -> thou shall not kill (or murder) , thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not commit adultery etc....did come from God and NOT man. Sorry guy but your atheist views are a bit conflicting with history I'm afraid. Also - I would suggest a re-read of American History (or perhaps a first read). Our founding fathers were Christian men and our Constitution and founding principles were ALL influenced by Christianity. Now you can look to nations such as the old USSR where Christian belief was not tolerated and then perhaps compare the "freedoms" granted by the Christian nation (America) compared to the slavery forced by the God-less nation (USSR). Which would you rather live in???

  • BR Sandy, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 6:03 p.m.

    Liberals set their standards and try to force them on every body’s throat, not giving others the right of an opinion. I don't like to watch baseball but I don't hate those that enjoy. The list of things that I don't participate goes on: drugs, alcohol, opera, swearing, tattoos, LGBT, curling, tanning, etc. Do I hate those that participate? NO. Why liberals charge me with hate because I don’t agree with them? This is hate and intolerance.

  • The Wraith Kaysville, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 10:15 p.m.

    @patriot
    Actually the idea of morality, and every single example of it that you listed, did come from pagans (though not the Romans because it predates them and even predates the supposed time of the Ten Commandments by several hundred years). The Code of Hammurabi dates from about 1776 BC (the 10 from around 1400 BC) was written on stone tablets in Mesopotamia during the Babylonian period under King Hammurabi. The law not only covered such crimes as murder and theft but also trade laws and rights of workers. Not only were they written by pagans but we actually have real stone tablets that people can see and touch whereas there is no archeological evidence what so ever to back up the story of the Exodus. Real history trumps imagined history every time. Pagans came up with morality.

  • The Wraith Kaysville, UT
    Aug. 6, 2014 10:15 p.m.

    As far as U.S. History you are mostly correct in saying that the individuals we call the “Founding Fathers” were Christian but their idea of Christianity varied greatly from any modern interpretation of the faith. And some of them would have preferred the term deist, and a couple were even atheists. Shocking I know. The Constitution actually shows almost no influence of Christian religion. But that’s mainly because it’s a very legal document concerning how the government should function. Try reading the Constitution and you’ll see what I mean. The founding principles of our government owe much more to Enlightenment philosophy than anything else; in fact the vast majority of our foundation as a country is in Enlightenment ideas though simply because we sprang from Western Civilization in the 18th century there indeed is some Christian influence. Still the Constitution never mentions God in any sense but again that’s because it is a legal document about functions of government. Still the ideas of equality, rights and freedom came from Enlightenment ideas, not Christianity and this is all backed up by actual documents we have from our founders so once again real history trumps imaginary history.

  • GameTheory Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 7, 2014 12:01 a.m.

    @Patriot, First of all I can't think of any movie or book that has so many instances of violence and immoral misdeeds all done by god in the old testament. So you should probably re read or first time read your bible. Secondly, Thank you @The Wraith, for explaining that the Ten Commandments were not a innovative set of laws. I would also say that pure logic can determine this, by asking was death, adultery and stealing, within the parameters of acceptable social behavior predating the 10 commandments? Of course it wasn't, egyptians, and asian societies had written records of punishments for these acts. It helps to step outside of your confirmation bias
    thirdly, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Paine did not believe in the christian religion, they were deists (belief in a God who does not interfere in personal matters) They all condemned the christian version of God and the bible. In this case it wouldn't be a bad thing to be a little more open to facts about American History.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Aug. 7, 2014 8:30 a.m.

    @ Johnny Triumph
    You wrote:

    " Good for BYU and the other schools for turning out an educated, religious, group of people. It's always nice to see young people who are not afraid to stand up for their values."

    Johnny, educated and religious don't necessarily exclude eachother. However, many religious institutions sacrifice truth as we know it through science or empirical evidence on favor of dogma. Such institutions cannot claim to produce educated professionals.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Aug. 7, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    @ Liberal Ted:
    "If a cross dresser doesn't feel welcomed, because they are not allowed to cross dress....that is something they need to think about before signing the dotted line."

    This may be a shocker to you, but, the fact a school of higher learning that forbids "not harmful behavior" on its student body because of perceived "moral concerns" . It is a school that is limiting itself and its students to the real world.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Aug. 7, 2014 8:44 a.m.

    @ BR

    You wrote:

    "Liberals set their standards and try to force them on every body’s throat, not giving others the right of an opinion. I don't like to watch baseball but I don't hate those that enjoy. The list of things that I don't participate goes on: drugs, alcohol, opera, swearing, tattoos, LGBT, curling, tanning, etc. Do I hate those that participate? NO. Why liberals charge me with hate because I don’t agree with them? This is hate and intolerance "

    Did you notice that your list of not likes are objects, activities, and LGBT?

    You are talking about people... Change LGBT for : Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Italians, women, Native Americans, handicapped people, etc. that would be considered "HATE"speech.. Right?

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 7, 2014 10:31 a.m.

    @Uncle Rico
    "Religion teaches killing is bad"

    Anyone who needs religion to tell them killing is bad has some serious issues. By the way, when did Japan, Canada, Western Europe, and New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine (the 3 most atheist states in the US) become lawless?

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Aug. 7, 2014 10:46 a.m.

    ordinary folk

    Yes you do have it wrong. Todays colleges and universities are dominated by the teachings of the secular left. There is little or no balance on political or social issues. Even to the point that students are fearful of not toeing the PC line lest their professors and or fellow students punish them. So it goes both ways, only while there may be a handful of conservative/religous institutions in America, there are hundreds of colleges and universities that go the liberal way. To the point that a terrorist like Bill Ayers can teach at a major university. I doubt that, had he lived, Timothy McVey would have ended up a tenured professor at BYU, or Hillsdale.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 7, 2014 1:49 p.m.

    There are those who demand that Christ change the rules to enter the Father's presence. Do they really think that Christ cares about their "politically correct agenda"? He paid the price. He sets the rules. The 1.6% who disagree with Him aren't going to gain any respect by telling us that they know more than Christ about proper and appropriate conduct and they certainly don't have the right to set the rules for the Atonement.

  • donn layton, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 7:46 a.m.

    The Wraith. Other religions have a system of works, which will make you “good enough” to please God Christianity is based on the biblical principle that we can never be good enough to be in the presence of a perfect, holy God.

    The Mosaic Law was given to prove to us that we can’t keep it. Gal 3 describes the purpose of the Law. It is a “tutor” or “schoolmaster” to lead us to Christ because “…by observing the law no one will be justified” (Gal 2:16). The impossibility of keeping the Law is what Jesus called the “first and greatest commandment” in Mt 22:37: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” This would mean loving God with every fiber of our being 24/7, an impossible task for anyone. Jesus Christ, who obeyed the Law perfectly for us, By faith in Him we are justified and made righteous.

    “It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”(Heb 10:31)

  • TheProudDuck Newport Beach, CA
    Aug. 11, 2014 3:12 p.m.

    "And I thought that the idea behind higher education was to educate, not indoctrinate."

    I went to BYU, and I went to USC. I saw no less indoctrination at the latter than the former.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Aug. 18, 2014 11:05 a.m.

    @Baccus0902 - I disagree. A truly educated person can make choices based on both science and those things that we can't fully understand. Faith is needed and a truly educated person will see that his/her understanding is not complete and that faith is necessary. BYU and other religious schools seek to maintain a rounded educational experience rather than teaching students to rely completely on current known sources.

    And to call what religious universities teach 'indoctrination' is amusing. Nothing is forced on the student, the student is encouraged to study and learn and to thus be in a position to make the appropriate determinations on a subject. Rather than being a limiting experience a truly rounded education is freeing.