Elles - what you are describing in your complaint about the math part is a bit
puzzling to me. Being able to simplify a number into units of single, tens,
hundreds, etc is a basic foundation step to doing other mathematical equations.
Sometimes you do need some basic building blocks so you are prepared to do more
advanced things in the next grade. You can teach a kid how to subtract 7 from
15 by drawing lines, and crossing them out... but that doesn't help with
the next step in math.And common core does not tell any teacher how
much time they need to spend on any given subject. That is your state or local
school board. If a teacher can teach a topic in 10 minutes - that is fine. No
one is going to tell them otherwise. There is no reporting back to the common
core police how many minutes a teacher spends on a subject. We had
issues when the states operated alone - hence why the creation of common core.
There will be issues with common core. But honestly Utah kids educational needs
aren't all that different than kids in North Carolina.
Light and Liberty.... if your kids are going to be competing with only local
kids for their education and jobs... have at it. You keep acting like somehow
your local school boards ability to make decisions has been taken from them. If
you actually think "entrepreneurial spirit" is crushed by having
standards, I am completely lost. Industry every day innovates heavily within
the boundaries of standards. iPods, iPhones, airplanes, cars, tv's - you
name it, are all results of deep innovation within the framework of standards.
And in fact, many have flourished because of standards.Why?Because of interoperability. These items can coexist together. They have
protocols for interaction. They have standards so they know how to communicate
and work with each other. Without basic standards, innovation is held back
because it can't work with other products. Standards drives innovation.Common Core simply tries to assure our kids are ready for college. That
they can go to BYU or U of U without having to take basic english yet again.
That they show up do basic math - and not have to take any 101 level classes.
This has nothing to do with local control - because you still have that.
Utahbluedevil: If you are not against local control, then why would we have
such a thing as Common Core? Why not Local Common Core, if you aren't
against it? Why even have the Federal government involved? The problem I have
with Common Core advocates is the notion that national standards, be they high
or low, are even necessary! What is it about it about letting things play out
on a local level that Common Core advocates can't take! What do they fear?
It is because all these Common Core advocates think, ignorantly and foolishly,
that they know what the world will look like in ten or twenty years. Therefore,
we need to structure the whole education system so that we are prepared for it!
How foolish and patronizing! It really is an attack on liberty, individuality,
and the ability of the entrepreneur spirit, embed with freedom and creativity,
to face the world without government telling them how to do it! We live in a
society now that can't live with failure and want to insure that nobody
fails! Common Core is an attempt, just as NCLB, to guarantee something that
can't be guaranteed!
@ UtahBlueDevil"Please show me - or reference anywhere Common Core
tells a single teacher how to manage their class room, recommends a single text
book, or even details how a math problem should be solved."With
pleasure:Common Core Standards specifically tell a teacher what
percentage of classroom reading time must be spent on reading literature and
what percentage must be spent on reading informational text. Shouldn't the
decision on how to spend classroom reading time and what to read be left to
individual teachers and be based on the needs of their students? (There is no
evidence supporting an increase in reading informational text, rather, a strong
emphasis on literature has proven very successful in states like
Massachusetts.)Common Core math standards also dictate certain
strategies and teaching methods. Rather than simply requiring students to add
and subtract within 20, for example, CCSS require using "strategies such as
counting on; making ten; using the relationship between addition and
subtraction; and creating equivalent but easier or known sums." Instead of
simply having students prove triangle congruence and leaving the instruction
method up to the teacher, CCSS dictate that the teacher use rigid motion to
teach congruency- an unproven approach at best.
To "The Educator" yes, read what is on the CC web site. It states that
they only looked for input from educators. No current educators were involved
in writing the standards. Also, think of it this way. How do you know that any
comments made by teachers were incorporated?You said "Keep
education in the hands of educators! I don't believe that folks with zero
education experience should have say in education" at the same time that you
have declared your support for CC. You should look at the people who wrote the
standards, from what I have been able to find less than 10 of the 60 people who
wrote the standards have degrees in education, and none of those people actually
had any experience in teaching.You are supporting a standard written
by politicians and a few people that are inexperienced people with education
degrees. It is everything you say should not happen.
@Light and Liberty - I wish I could answer your questions in a logical way, but
the rub is your questions don't make any sense. Never have I ever stated
here or anywhere else I am against local control. Nothing could be further from
the truth. What I am against is those with local control trying to blame
others for their own problems.What I am against is teachers or
administrators blaming common core for their problems teaching math. Common
Core does't tell them how to teach math. It simply says that by a certain
grade kids should be proficient in certain skills. Not how to tach those
skills. Not what book to use. Not even what curricula to use.I
can't answer your question because what you are asking for - local control
- already exist. No more than the national standard of a red light means stop
tells you how to drive - does common core tell your kids teachers how to teach,
even if you home school your kids. What you can expect though is colleges ,
universities and employers will expect your kids to have these skills by the
time they graduate high school.
When I consider who the outspoken critics of common core happen to be, I know
Common Core must be a good thing.
50th in the nation, we can only go up from here.Fund the schools.National standards, have always been a bad idea(?) some children
"should" be disadvantaged by the leaders in their state.Measurements, size, distance, water quality, yeah that should all be locally
controlled?When asked specifically what about common core is wrong,
the first thing folks mention is political, not education, which is telling.
Ah yes, the Common core, where all the right wing crazies get in a tizzy over
something they can't explain or recognize. Why are having national
standards so bad? Simple question.
@ Chuck, Redshirt, etcLets read the CC front page:"Teachers, parents, school administrators, and experts from across the
country, together with state leaders, provided input into the development of the
standards."Your reluctance to admit that professionals actually
trained in education helped develop the core. Rather than focus on the physical
location of some of these agencies, why not recognize that the core was
developed by those who have been trained in the field that they're in,
EDUCATION!The silly responses on full display expresses exactly what
I've been saying all along... Education should be kept out of the hands of
those not trained in education."Why do you think that some
faceless person in Washington knows what your children's needs are better
than you do?"Let me answer your question with a question, you
need to have open heart surgery or else you will die. Do you trust a
"faceless" world renowned heart surgeon or Connor Boyack? Keep education in the hands of educators! I don't believe that folks with
zero education experience should have say in education. It's that simple.
@ UtahBlueDevil"Lets start by actually reading the standards
before going off on rants based on complete fabrications."Too
late. Have you read the posts? The same irrational and paranoid right wingers
are in full effect.@ logic" Connor's point, is
that these state agencies should be taking their lead from local groups and not
big business groups or federal agencies elsewhere."That's
not Connor's point. Have you visited his website? My wife did, and
she's an ex-teacher in Utah. Here are her exact words: "Why is anyone
paying attention to anything he says? He advocates for home school!"Exactly. Why should anyone care what Connie says? Asking him about
public education is like Hillary Clinton asking for Karl Rove's help in
being elected in 2016. I believe we should do what is best for students.
Let's return the focus onto education and not let politics figure into
things. I have yet to read any rational reason why common core
standards are bad.
To "Henderson" wow, you are wandering all over the place. If they were
not developed in Washington, then tell us where the NGA has its offices and
where the CCSSO is located. Last I checked they were based out of Washington.
Can you answer the questions you are asked, or are you going to keep
running away from them? The biggest question is this:"Why do
you think that some faceless person in Washington knows what your
children's needs are better than you do?"
@ Henderson, Common Core WAS developed in Washington D.C.! NGA and CCSSO are in
D.C. They are think tanks that Governors and state superintendents subscribe
I think it's sad that parent's politics are rubbing off on kids, as
they use their kids as props for these protests. There's better ways for
them to learn your politics. These rally's are almost never productive,
and the emotion involved can damage your kids outlook on education for the rest
of their life.I don't care about the curriculum. I'm
assuming if it was insufficient... teachers would oppose it... but they
don't.The only problem I have with this far flung government
control of education is... the data collection, reporting and data mining the
government AND corporations will be doing on your kids once their testing and
intelligence data is in the system.IF you could opt out of the data
mining. Or you could have your individual child's identity obscured (so
they were working with aggregate data instead of individually identifiable
subjects)... I would be more comfortable that this data would NEVER be abused by
a future administration, or an aggressive corporate data miner.
" Local control means the local patrons AND educators. Local control does
not mean those who have nothing to do with education. And I know plenty of my
colleagues (teachers) who do NOT like Common Core."And how is
this supposed to prepare our students to compete on a global market? You seem to
make the greatest case for CC yet! This whole model of small municipalities and
districts deciding the standards and curriculum worked 200 years ago. Not
anymore. We're not competing between Orem, Provo, and Salt Lake City. Our
students are competing against Germany, Canada, Finland, Brazil, and China. "Oh, we will also have to CUT spending on education since we spend
more per pupil than most any other nation."Why not take it out
of the defense budget? We spend 4 times as much as #2 China? We had $2 trillion
to waste on Iraq? Think the $2 trillion we used on Iraq could have helped in
education? I think so.
The federal government has no constitutional role in Education. The control of
standards, curriculum and education should be kept local. Connor's point
is that State's are becoming a pawn of the federal government or outside
interests. True local control, means that PARENTS, teachers, and local school
administrators have a huge role in creating standards or curriculum. I have
worked on the state and federal government level for several years, and see how
state's are basically carrying out the work of the federal government in so
many ways. So many entities want control over our children's education.
Education is NOT or should not be a job's program!! Education help us learn
to think, grow, and connect. Control over what is taught and how it is taught,
should bee controlled by parents and teachers and local administrators. The
Utah law in question in the lawsuit, mandates that these local groups be
consulted in making standards. So many state agencies, including our State
office of Education are taking their lead from Federal agencies. Connor's
point, is that these state agencies should be taking their lead from local
groups and not big business groups or federal agencies elsewhere.
To "Steve Cottrell" if we are to adopt what the other countries do, can
we go all the way. You know, like all highschool classes having 40 to 50 kids
in there. Test the kids in Jr. High to determine if they are to go to trade
schools or go to the College Prep High schools, then only test the college bound
kids on the international tests.You will have to figure out how to
make parents care about school so much that they enroll their kids in summer
learning programs to keep their testing scores up.Oh, we will also
have to CUT spending on education since we spend more per pupil than most any
other nation.Are you willing to do all of that so that we can
improve our world standardized test scores?
@ Henderson, Local control means the local patrons AND educators. Local control
does not mean those who have nothing to do with education. And I know plenty of
my colleagues (teachers) who do NOT like Common Core.It's also
interesting that those who came up with CC were not practicing teachers! I
trust our local educators and parents far more than a Washington D.C. think
tank, which is what came up with CC.
@ RedshirtThe Common Core wasn't developed in DC. See,
it's a comment like that which places into question the credibility of your
entire post. Now I seriously doubt whether you even spoke with a teacher in the
first place. From the CC website:"The nation's
governors and education commissioners, through their representative
organizations, the National Governors Association Center for Best Practices
(NGA) and the Council of Chief State School Officers (CCSSO), led the
development of the Common Core State Standards and continue to lead the
initiative. Teachers, parents, school administrators, and experts from across
the country, together with state leaders, provided input into the development of
the standards."Educators from around the country were given
opportunity to develop them. In fact, Utah held several meetings to discuss
them. Just because you failed to participate doesn't mean that there
wasn't a national effort to develop them. My question is, why
do you think some local person from a anti-public education special interest
group knows best how to educate your children than a group of professionally
trained educators from around the country? Should a doctor trust Connor
Boyack over a group professionally trained doctors?
For those who think math programs that integrate statistics, geometry and
algebra skills in several courses rather than in one course for each content
area, you need to take a look at the international education picture. Those
countries which typically outdo the US in mathematics testing have been
integrating this content for decades. That's the biggest change in the
mathematics standards from the old state core which has been in place, with
revisions, since 1983. It just might work here. I believe our kids
are as bright as theirs!
To "Henderson" it has been less than 6 months since I was discussing CC
with a teacher.Your analogy is false because the Medical Profession
is quite different from education. Doctors don't have a set of national
standards that dictate what they must do throughout the course of a year.Would you go to a doctor that had to be told by doctors in Washington DC
what your diagnosis is?Local control is better because my neighbors
and I know what our children's strengths and weaknesses are better than
some suit in Washington does.Why do you think that some faceless
person in Washington knows what your children's needs are better than you
do?To "Atlas Smashed" if teachers are micromanaged by the
Utah State Legislature, how do things change by micromanaging the state by
Washington? If one layer of micromanagement is bad, how does 2 make it
better?If Bill Gates is such an educational genius, why is it that
he stands to make millions of dollars off of the CC testing? Also, if the right
wing is so out of touch, why is it that the right wing homeschoolers outperform
public schools in every category?
Henderson nailed it. My sister is a teacher in Utah, and she tells me stories
all the time about how teachers are micromanaged. If I ran my business the way
the Utah legislature tries to micromanage education, I'd be out of a job
and fast! I believe that the Common Core standards, developed by genius
businessmen like Bill Gates in conjunction with educators is a good thing. These
folks know what our children need more than right wing fringe groups that are
still living 200 years in the past.
Once upon a time the buzz word in education was "Data Based
Decisions".Common Core is producing a LOT of data...but none of
it means anything yet. Utah decided to shake up the order in which secondary
math is taught. But no one knows for certain if that is actually going to work!
There is no data that suggests we should be doing it this way. A committee
essentially decided to chop things up, throw away the expertise of all other
math text book writers and curriculum designers, and do their own thing in
regards to what gets taught in what year. When the class of 2015 hits college,
we'll get to see if they are better at math or not, as they took the Common
Core all the way through high school.My guess is, not.
What's wrong with this comment? @ RedshirtJust a
quick yes or no question, when was the last time you actually went inside a
public school and interviewed a public school teacher about the Common Core and
testing? I'm not sure you should comment on this issue if you
haven't gotten yourself informed yet. Would you instruct your doctor on how
to best perform surgery if you haven't spent any amount of time in medical
school? It would be silly, right? Because the doctor is informed and
you aren't. So why do the worst informed feel like they can spout off about
education? Which is why I cannot understand why so many feel like
"local control" is better. Do doctors ignore fellow
"national" doctors in favor of being instructed by local real estate
agents and high school teachers? Do teachers come into ERs to
micromanage what doctors are doing? So why do folks feel like they can manage
education? Shouldn't education be left into the hands of those who have
studied, been trained, and are professionals in their field? "Local
control" just seems like code for special interest groups promoting their
own personal agendas.
A few questions for Utahbluedevil: What is wrong with education decisions being
made by individuals? Why is it that local control of education fills you with
so much fear? What is it that makes me think that only those people with poor
self worth would give to anyone the right to make decisions about their future?
To "AllSeeingEye" the problem is that since your kids left the public
school system (assuming they are all over the age of 20) is that math is no
longer math.Over the past 25 years or so, the school system has been
leaving the tried and tested methods for newer methods that are tried for a few
years then dumped because kids aren't learning anything or can never master
the subjects.It used to be that schools participated in standardized
testing once every 2 years. Now it is mandated 2 to 3 times per year, every
year. We waste many weeks of valuable teaching time and learning for
standardized testing that does not improve education.
This lawsuit is frivolous. The State Board held an open comment period just as
the law requires. Those who wished to could be as involved as they pleased, and
many were. This article twists the facts and makes the Board look like
conspirators trying to hide evil intentions. Ridiculous.
The author describes a silly, self-serving lawsuit that will do much better in
the newspapers than in the courts. This whole debate is strange and
hard to understand. Math is math; reading is reading; science is science.Our education system is behind most of the developed world in terms of
hours spent learning each day, amount of homework, number of school days per
year, and rigor of measurement standards. So, when rigorous standards are
proposed, with leeway in how to approach them, certain folks cry foul because
the standards weren't locally developed? What gives. Do we want our
children to pursue mediocrity? My public-school educated kids have
gone on to do wonderful things academically. I think what happens at home, as a
supplement to public education, is more important than the public education
itself. But, I would have welcomed more rigorous public school standards if for
no other reason than to inspire teachers to inspire students. Helping kids
learn more by lighting the fire of learning in their hearts is the right thing
@Horses Star,I would go even further than you mentioned and ask that
the Legislature get out of education and actually let the Board of Education and
local school districts make the important decisions. Our Legislature has caused
a bigger mess for our state's education than any other group.
Thank you Connar Boyack and Libertias foundation for calling attention to this
important issue. I as a parent and taxpayer am suspicious of any program that
is secretly and forcefully inserted into my children's education without
the rules of checks and balances, Governor Herbert and the Board of Education, I
would admonish you to listen to the people. Please let the Great State of Utah,
the Legislature, local school boards and parents have control over our
children's education. The Board of Education perhaps means well, but the
control must stay at a local level, progress through the process of checks and
balances and then if Common Core is appropriate for our children, then let it be
law, but not before.
Amen! I'm a teacher, and I don't think that those of us in the
trenches had one bit of input into this decision. Since a portion of our salary
will now be based on the (excessive and ridiculous) testing that the State Board
and Legislature require, we certainly have "a dog in this fight."
Please tell me what local control has been lost? Please show me - or reference
anywhere Common Core tells a single teacher how to manage their class room,
recommends a single text book, or even details how a math problem should be
solved?This ongoing campaign of false information, paranoia, and
down right rhetoric is amazing. Common Core no more tells a teacher how to
teach then does the SAT or ACT test do likewise. This is a campaign by those
who wish to shift responsibility for the current state of education,
indemnifying those who actually have incredible control over the daily
activities that happen in our schools. If school boards, administrations, and
teachers are trying to blame their failures on simple, very basic standards,
they are abdicating their responsibility to our kids.Lets start by
actually reading the standards before going off on rants based on complete