@KalindraThe prison population in the U.S. is at an all-time high,
growing faster than at any time in recent history and the U.S. has a higher
percentage of its population behind bars than any non-third world country.Just interested in your view of those facts. Is that part of
what's working? Do we have a lower crime rate and drug use because more of
the criminals and drug users are in jail? To allow things to
continue to be working well, should we build more jails so we can put even more
folks behind bars and watch our crime rate and drug use continue to decline?
The only protection for ALL religious students and all non-religious students,
and to eliminate bias, hatreds, and persecution, is to make absolutely sure that
NO religion is "taught" in Public Schools. Religion cannot be taught
objectively, and more that a teacher can say "two and two equals four, but
you are not compelled to believe that."
Evidence, Facts and American History has shown that religion, when taught in
Public Schools, always becomes a weapon of condemnation and oppression by the
prevailing majority against ALL others. Does this author think that a Mormon,
Buddhist, Catholic or Atheist student in Alabama or Georgia would NOT be told
"you're a vile sinner, lost, and we have the CORRECT religion?"
Unless you were raised a Mormon in Atlanta, you have no idea how absurd and
simple minded this article is.
@ ulvegaard: "This country has gone to great lengths to remove any and all
religious concepts from school; including ethics, morality, personal
responsibility and appreciation. I don't think that has worked out all that
well in the long run."Crime is down. Teen pregnancy is down.
Drug use is down.What's not working?
I would advocate a wide spectrum of learning and allowing students to choose
which portions of that spectrum would interest them most. When learning becomes
restricted to just one particular view point, it is too easy for that avenue to
become contaminated or at best, slanted.This country has gone to
great lengths to remove any and all religious concepts from school; including
ethics, morality, personal responsibility and appreciation. I don't think
that has worked out all that well in the long run.
Coach Biff....Taking any time from public education to fill kids heads
with the myths, differences and the absurdity of religion when there is such a
short time to prepare them for their temporal lives it makes absolutely no sense
to me what-so-ever. Just because ANY particular religion thinks it's so
all fired important doesn't carry any weight either.
I agree. There is nothing godly about our public schools. Parents should get
their children out of them asap and home school or send to a parochial school.
The general authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
warned us long ago about letting atheists teach our children.
@happy2bhere;Actually, those were regions with lots of religious
conflict. I don't have any more problem with Muslims than with any other
religion; I only know a few Muslims personally, but I find them to be much more
decent than a lot of the Christians I know; which doesn't mean that all the
Christians I know are bad, I just happen to know more Christians.Nigeria has a quite large Christian background as well as Muslim and the
Christians are among those causing the tension.And here's where
you show your own bias: "...han the no values secular humanism...".
The "secular humanists" I know are far and away better than any
religious person I know and they actually live their values."Without some kind of morality being taught..."; you err in conflating
religion and morality; they are NOT synonymous."And what better
philosophy than that of the monotheistic religions, ..."I prefer
the polytheistic religions; they're not as insular.
This article doesn't even prove what it claims to prove. The author's
claim is that religion has a place in America's education system. He gives
ten reasons, which can be summarized as follows:1. Religious kids
can't tell fact from fiction. 2. Religious kids aren't juvenile
delinquents.3. Students in private religious schools test better than
students in public schools.4. One psychologist said religious kids are
psychologically balanced.5. Religion classes have reading assignments.6. The Journal of Humanities and Social Science published an article that
concluded students who take a religion class understand religion better than
students who don't.7. College religion majors have a lower
unemployment rate than business majors.8. You can't do anything with
bachelor of religion, so religion majors go to graduate school.9.
Religious people are happier and businesses like happy employees.10.
Religious kids are less depressed. Reviewing the above list, the
only "reason" that addresses adding religion courses in public schools
is #5- religion classes require reading, but most classes require reading. Every
other offered rationale argues for more religious kids, not for more religion in
public education. This isn't news, it's low quality propaganda.
Dennis,Life is about "learning". Excluding one facet of life or
education is akin to cutting off the nose to spite your face. I don't get
Religious schools are private schools so when religious schools have to take
every student that applies to their school, I will be treat that point that
religious schools do better than public schools with more than just a grain of
salt.But one might be shocked that a school like Skyline probably
does just as well as a school like Juan Diego but the latter is exclusive and
will cost tens of thousands of dollars vs. the other in tuition before one
leaves. Also, most religious schools, whether they be Juan Diego or American
Heritage, are almost completely homogenous. If not religiously, also by
homogenous by race, ethnicity and wealth. They can promote one religion over
another and no one there complains, or if they did, they are jettisoned out of
the school. Public schools can't do this, nor do I believe, should do
this. Public schools in fact, I would argue, better expose students to
different points of view. Yes, public schools have immense challenges, but many
come from the fact they have to accept everyone and often don't have the
resources that private schools have.
Teachers can teach about religion. They just can't promote one religion
over another.For example, a geogrpahy teacher can teach the basic
beliefs of Islam, Judaism and Christianity when discussing the culture of the
Middle East or Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism when talking about the
culture of India. Or Buddhism, Confucius, and Taoism, when talking about the
culture of China and Southeast Asia. There are a lot of great
Supreme Court cases about religion say a government teacher would talk about
like Reynolds v. United States (a Mormon polygamy case) or the big one Engel v.
Vitale (school prayer). There are a lot of court cases involving things like
Seminary programs, saying prayers at graduation, teaching evolution etc. that
are certainly interesting to talk about.In history you can talk
about he Mormon Pioneers or the rise of the religious right and its impacts on
society.The idea that religion can't be taught or isn't
taught, again comes from a lot of people having no clue about what is going on
in our schools and the curriculum. People need to get out and visit their
"School" is about learning. Not learning about supposed
"truths" but learning facts. Enjoying the freedom of expression so you
can become the person you were born to be.Where, what and why would
religion have anything to do with this in public education? Can you imagine two
kids squaring off in the playground over their opinions on the true nature of
God? Leave religion at Church where you can get your fill every week.
I grew up in another era. In our public elementary school, we said grace over
lunch. We occasionally sang religious-themed songs -- like "We Gather
Together" at Thanksgiving time and carols at Christmas time. We had
Christmas programs with Mary, Joseph, and the baby Jesus. I can remember a
school assembly with a performer who sang religious songs and talked about his
church activity. In high school, we had an interfaith council, and its members
took turns saying the morning prayer over the loudspeaker. We studied the
Puritans (in a positive light) and "The Mormon Trek" as part of our
American history courses. Our student body was probably 98% Catholic and
Protestant. There were few LDS or Jews. If we had Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists,
or other non-Christians in our school, we were unaware of it, and they
wouldn't have protested, anyway. Atheists were unheard of in our community.
My grandchildren have had zero experience with this kind of education. They are
dialed in to cultural pluralism and tolerance. Their teachers have many
constraints. We need to teach more about God in our homes. The old-school model
probably isn't coming back anytime soon.
I agree with @Liberal Ted, who says students should be taught multiple points of
view. He also said: >Problem is, politics creeps into
public schools and gives the liberal slant on most things<Here,
I would reformulate that to: "Luckily, *education* creeps into public
schools and give the liberal slant on most things.And by liberal, I
mean the classic liberal education, in which students are taught HOW to think
about the world and the the things in it, not WHAT to think about them. How various groups' myths and stories were important to survival,
how they came to be taken as reality, and what happened when those groups
collided is central to human history.Religion, all of it, plays a
defining role in the history of the world and everything humans know and think
they know about life. The very fact that religion is politicized is one of the
main things to understand about religion, and the main reason no one religion
should be elevated over another in school.It's hardly a subject
matter to avoid, if the goal is education rather than indoctrination.
"this is what people believe" is a far cry from "this is truth"
which is the level of discussion most religious people want taught in schools.
After all, one of the arguments in the article is that it improves behaviour;
this only comes with the guilt and enabled enforcement that religion imposes
when practised, not studied. In the end, I believe we're better off keeping
modern religion in context of our education system among the other mythologies,
such as greek, norse or roman.
Numbers 7 through 10…Religion teaches us that ethics is
nothing more than obeying divine commands and is therefore completely arbitrary
– this is the morality parents impose on toddlers, not rational adults.Despite this, it perpetuates the false notion that religion and morality
are synonymous, when in fact religion is necessary for morality in the same way
Zeus is necessary for lightening.The only attribute that gives any
one religion validity is the number of followers (why we think people who pray
to Zeus or Baal are crazy but not those who pray to Yahweh or Allah).All the positive benefits of religion are due to its tendency to promote
community involvement, something that can be easily gained without having to
believe in fictional stories and fantasy.
And 10 reasons why religion should not be taught in schools (survey and history
course are fine):Sectarian religion is inherently divisive (see next
point).All religions are both true (viewed by insiders) and false
(viewed by outsiders).Religion’s track record as a body of
knowledge is abysmal.Religion is our infantile (bronze-age) attempt
to explain the world at a time when we knew next to nothing, and teaching it
today is no different than teaching astrology or alchemy.Religion
teaches people to believe things on insufficient evidence (it promotes
credulousness).Religion is almost entirely based on anthropomorphic
projection (i.e., if triangles were sentient, God would have three sides and the
Bible would be a trigonometry textbook).Continued…
I agree that teaching about religion is very important. Teaching religion
itself has no place in schools unless it is something like the LDS seminary
program.The idea of covering each religion equally isn't a bad
one, but lets be honest here people as a whole just aren't that open and
respectful of other peoples beliefs. Teaching about the LDS church in school
would thrill Mormons, but when that unit ends and the class starts spending a
few weeks learning Islam I think they will suddenly be less thrilled heh. We
can't have parents pulling their kids out of school to avoid the lessons
they want to hide from their children.It is probably best for
everyone to just keep religion in school extremely basic.
I find those who know the most about all the different religions, tend to not
belong to a religious group.Not to say that they aren't spiritual,
they just don't settle for one particular flock.I agree with
Bob studying all would be great, but it isn't about comparative thinking.
It's like Liberal Ted alludes to, it's frightening to think your
child might be exposed to critical thinking and choose differently than their
I believe that teaching about faith in general can be a very beautiful thing for
children. Teachers for the most part shy away from it because they are too
scared of being sued in our sue happy culture.As long as a teacher
is not preaching, but teaching religion on broad terms I think it can help us
understand each other more.
I can only imagine the irate letters to the editor, the angry op eds, and
overall vitriol that would be published in this newspaper if children in the
state were forced to study Islam and read from the Quran as a part of their
normal school day. Had this writer been at all honest he would have made sure
the headline read: Why My Religion Belongs in School.
Well Ranch you do show prejudice in your statement. You list all countries with
Islam as their religion. Truth is, Islam, when properly practiced, would likely
bring about much better people than the secular mis-education being foisted upon
American students today. The majority of Muslims in the world are not
terrorists. With well over a billion, if they were, we'd all be lost.
Most Muslims I've encountered are basically good and decent people who live
a good clean life. Kind of like most Mormons I encounter. Or Jews I encounter,
or Christians I encounter. Anything that could make people better than the no
values secular humanism does, which is pretty much where todays secular
education takes people, is a good thing for a society and country. Without
some kind of morality being taught, a society will crumble under immorality.
This has happened throughout history. And if you try to say the law is our
morality, I can show where most all law has a religious premise to it. And what
better philosophy than that of the monotheistic religions, which include
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity to get that morality from.
Studying religion, ALL religions, is an entirely different matter than
proselytizing for a specific religion. Of course the editors of this
"news" outlet know this. Now what are they really getting at?
If secular students that come from secular homes, need to understand what people
of faith believe in. And if they want to interact and accept that diversity
exists, students should be taught several points of view.The issue
is what slant the teacher takes. I have agnostic teachers that took every chance
to undermine religions, while claiming to celebrate all. I had many teachers
that were full of hate towards anything LDS (not exactly someone that should be
trying to teach about that faith).Maybe they should celebrate
different faiths each month. Touch on several Christian faiths one month.
Muslim faith another month. Jewish faith another month. Give the students a
variety and understanding. Guest speakers etc.If you want well
rounded students, you can't teach them one theory and then expect them to
go in the world and understand the millions of points of view. However, you can
equip them with the tools they'll need to come to their own conclusions.Problem is, politics creeps into public schools and gives the liberal
slant on most things.
Was there a particular religion you had in mind? Or should we rotate among the
world's top four religions (Christianity, Muslim, Hinduism, Buddism) so
that a high schooler will be exposed to all four?
I don't disagree with the conclusions in the article. The problem is--which
religion will be taught? I like the LDS seminary program because students have
the option of taking the class or not. I taught in a school which had both an
LDS seminary program and a similar option for other students taught by the local
minister. It worked out great. I wonder why other religions don't offer
more programs similar to the LDS seminary program. Including the positives in
the article, seminary doesn't cost the taxpayer anything and the students
are in a good environment.
When I read Tom Sawyer in the fourth grade, I had no delusion that Tom Sawyer
was real. I do not believe that believing that fictional characters, Greek gods
or other gods, are real is a good thing. There is a lot of good in
understanding lessons of mythology, but believing that mythology is real is,
"Religious schools do better than public or charter schools."Private schools on the whole do better than public or charter schools; not
just "religous schools".10 Reasons why religions should not
be in schools (note: there is a difference between religions begin taught ABOUT
and being practiced in schools):IranIsraelPalestineAfghanistanSyriaNigeria...