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Comments about ‘Legitimate, productive businesses are America's golden goose’

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Published: Monday, Aug. 4 2014 8:00 a.m. MDT

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JoeCapitalist2
Orem, UT

Noodlekaboodle:

I don't implicitly trust business. I never said I did. Many of them are bad. I don't have to support any of them since I can choose to spend my dollars wherever I want. None of them have the power to force me to buy their products or use their services. If any of them mistreat me as a customer, I will direct my business to a competitior or some other venture entirely.

Government on the other hand has the power to tax me, to force me to buy a product (Obamacare), and put me in jail if I refuse to do those things. That is why I am more scared of government abuses that private sector ones.

JoeBlow:

I might have painted liberals with a broad brush, but I have yet to meet one who thinks that the current 50% total taxes that many high earners pay, is too much. They are constantly pushing for even higher taxes.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

There's a simple solution to see whether we need a free market system. Just have business owners close up their businesses. Let those who tell us that labor unions are the answer hire all the fired people. Let those who berate the investors invest their own money. Let's see how fast the IRS would have to close it's doors. Let's see how long Air Force One could shuttle Obama between golf courses after every business shut its doors.

Business does not need more regulations. We are being regulated out of business. Who regulates the regulators? Who protects the U.S. Businesses from cheap (i.e. unregulated) foreign competition? Who decides what regulations we need? Does Al Gore? He told us that New York would be underwater by now if we didn't pass his carbon tax. Was he right? How many of the elite know any more than Al Gore about cause and effect? The elite are still flying their private jets all over the world. Are they exempt?

Almost all regulation is nothing more than a grab for power.

Shaun
Sandy, UT

I am not anti business but I can not stand when republicans say that businesses are job creators. I hope business owners do not think they are job creators and realize paying customers are job creators.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"I have yet to meet one who thinks that the current 50% total taxes that many high earners pay, is too much"

Certainly you could cherry pick and find some "high earners" "paying 50% total taxes".

But they would be the exception.

The average federal tax bill for "high earners" is about 23%.

Many pay far far less than that (Romney for example).

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

"Suppose there are two fruit stands selling peaches and only 100 cars will drive by each day. A buyer who purchases peaches at stand A is a sale lost to stand B. A and B are in a win-lose game in this example. But that’s not how it really works."

======

That IS not how it works.

If store A and B tried to improve their product, service, and lower their price --THAT would be wonderful.

But in Reality,
If store B can't win on merits alone, rather than improve itself, it will lie, cheat, and steal, and trash talk, SUE, run false ads, sabotage, and do everything it can to KILL the competition.
And THAT is why I'm so down on "Business".

As for "Capitalism" and China...
What Mr. Bell does not say -- is that Capitalism in Chain is NOT what "created" anything new...
in reality what happened was AMERICA's Middle class simply "redistributed", off-shored, and out-sourced to Communist Red China, by the very businesses he is praising.

Sold Out!, in other words.

Dan2009
Murray, UT

No doubt we need businesses. But we don't need businesses who prey on their own employees, something that has happened to me. It's like middle managers these days feel they have handed you a winning lottery ticket just because they condescended to hire you, because the economy is bad. (Things get a lot different real quick when the economy is good.)

Arrogant middle managers will fire you for flimsy or even non-existent reasons if they feel like it these days, and co-workers won't hesitate to back-stab a fellow employee who does nothing but work, keep their head down, and mind their own business.

Congratulations, Dave. You, Jennifer, and Trisha were most persistent in your determination to get me fired, with or without cause, as Utah law allows. Since no cause was ever found, you fired me anyway - on New Year's Eve day, no less. Nice touch.

Oh, and I love how you're now telling all prospective employers that you've never heard of me, making it all but impossible for me to get another job, even after all this time. Well-played. You certainly accomplished your aim.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Mike Richards.

All regulations are an exercise of power. When the government creates the regulations it is assumed to be the power of the people telling business the how, when and what of business operations. It is the people's right and authority to do so.

Government regulation and control is the main purpose of government. That is so even when unscrupulous business men use the power of government to do selfish actions. The segregating of the task is intended to make such miscarriages of government as difficult as possible.

The denial of the power and authority for the government to do its job, is the act and agenda of criminal people who want the freedom to cheat.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

"If someone makes money, then someone else has to lose money. "

Most profit comes from hired labor not being paid fully for the value it adds. This is the Marxian perspective and it is important.

Now one can argue that the other benefits of capitalism outweigh the cheating of labor, but labor's position in capitalism explains the problems we have with it. Marx needs to be read.

Mister J
Salt Lake City, UT

to JCS...

The Licoln quote was nice but you had to add your 2 cents about Antt-capitalsm = Anti-American which I'm betting that was a major theme on Hannity this week?

A major component of American Capitalism is the Federal Reserve. So, as Jefferrson said...

"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

Mister J
Salt Lake City, UT

to Mike Richards

Maybe the House GOP can end their lawsuit of Obama, do their Constitutional duty (for a change), & come up with a budget that includes reducing the Corporate Tax Rate???

Mister J
Salt Lake City, UT

re: Noodlekaboodle this afternoon

Wouldn't using whatever twisted reasoning that makes Corporations people apply equally to Gov't bureaucracies?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I totally agree with this letter.... Legitimate, productive businesses are America's golden goose...

There are many people who want to kill the golden goose?

Then what???

Marxism? Communism? North Korea? Everybody worshiping the Government and barely subsisting on the black market or the Government Dole, and whatever aid they can squeeze or beg from the remaining Capitalist countries???

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@marxist.... "If someone makes money, then someone else has to lose money"....

Not true. Google "Is economy a zero-sum game"...

Economics is NOT a zero-sum game.

The TRUTH is... value CAN be created in a growing economy.

Do you actually think every dollar in the US Economy today existed in someone else's hands before the United States was even formed??? That no value has ever been created? That in business for someone to win, someone has to loose?

Who is the "winner", and who is the "looser" when you buy something? I think you are both winners. You BOTH got something you wanted more than what you gave for it!

If a person discovers gold, or oil, catches a fish, or builds a house, or a skyscraper, or a restaurant, or a gym, writes a song, or a book... they have ADDED value to the economy. And that economy grows a little for EVERYBODY.

If you seriously think economics is a zero-sum science... You need to go back to school.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@Noodlekaboodle,

Re: "Fundamentally, there isn't a huge difference between a massive corporation, and the government"...

Oh really...
- Can a corporation pass laws?
- Can a corporation regulate or control our behavior (by passing laws that govern us)?
- Can a business tax us?
- Can a business take away your children?
- Can a business put you in jail for not doing what they want?
- Can a business force your child to go to war?

I think they are fundamentally different....

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Congress owes nothing to the Executive Branch. Obama can whine and wail all he wants, but his job is to execute the laws passed by Congress. The PEOPLE elected the House. The House is Republican. The PEOPLE wanted a Conservative approach to taxes and to regulations. Obama disagrees. Reid disagrees. Both of them want the House to slink away so that Obama can dictate from the Oval Office all laws that he deems necessary. Reid refuses to even consider the bills passed by the House. He won't let the Senate vote on a Senate version of those bills.

We have separate branches of government for a purpose. The House represents the People, not the President. The Senate represents the States, not the President. The President is the CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of the United States. His job is to see that the laws passed by the People's Representatives and the laws passed by the State's Representatives are executed according to law.

If he were to do that, business would flourish and America would recover. His tantrums are destroying our economy. He is failing in his sworn duties.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

RE: 2bits @marxist.... "If someone makes money, then someone else has to lose money"....

I was quoting the writer of the article.

high school fan
Huntington, UT

Here is a simple fact, A business, any business big or small is in business for just one reason and that is to make its owners money. A business is not created for any other reason.
It seems like most liberal posts here resent money makers. Could you please tell me how your leaders such as the Clinton's, the Gores, the Obamas and the Harry Reid's all came into office fairly poor and left office fairly rich. Your heroes are making money and making lots of it and they are not sharing with their voters.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

KJB1,

Your post was offensive. You have decided that you can speak for me. Please refrain from assuming that you can speak for me in the future.

I believe in the Constitution, as written, not as some wished that it were written. The PEOPLE are represented by the House. The States are represented by the Senate. The President has no legislative authority. Congress is not required to listen to anything proposed by the Executive Branch. Even if the President had won every electoral vote, he still could not legislate nor could he "bully" Congress or the Court.

Congress has limited authority to regulate business. Interstate Commerce is an exception. Congress can regulate Interstate Commerce so that all States are treated fairly. Read Article 1, Section 8 where the authorized duties of Congress are enumerated.

Unfair regulation of business has driven businesses off-shore. Lower corporate taxes in other nations have created a hostile tax environment for businesses in America. No family would buy milk at $10 a gallon when the family could buy it for $3. Corporations go where they are welcomed.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

So I just took the time to read all the posts, and while there is and always will be differences of opinion on what is a fair tax, and what is a necessary regulation it struck me that there is one idea that pollutes this discussion. I'm sure this will be dis-credited because it comes from me (a progressive), but here it is.

It is the assumption by the right that the "left" sees government as a substitute for business. The article itself makes this abundantly clear when in the beginning he says the USSR substituted government for free enterprise and it didn't work. Who cares unless you are implying that the left in America see Government as a prime provider of services and goods.

This assumption is absolutely false. The "left" sees government as an arbitrator, and a catalyst, when it comes to commerce but not as a primary provider.

The liberals on this post spend half of their time defending their commitment to regulated capitalism and denying an attitude that doesn't exist in the first place.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Re: "I can not stand when republicans say that businesses are job creators" (shaun)...

You can't stand it... Yet it's true. Businesses DO create jobs.

==============

You say customers create jobs. They are part of the process, but let's do a mental experiment.

Pretend you want to create some jobs. Think... How can I create jobs?... You have 2 ideas. 1) You could open a taco stand on your street corner and hire somebody to run it. 2) You stand on the corner with money in hand, or go to another corner and buy a taco.

Who "Created" job?

You buying a taco? Or you opening a store and hiring somebody to run it???

The business created a job. Customers are needed, but did the customer create a job? Or the business?

=============

Businesses also create new customers. When your neighbors see the taco stand on the corner, they may also decide to buy some tacos. And Walla... the business created both Jobs AND Customers.

Businesses need customers. But customers don't factually "create" jobs.

==========

If customers create jobs... Why does Obama blame business for NOT creating jobs??? He should blame customers... right?

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