Published: Monday, Aug. 4 2014 8:00 a.m. MDT
Noodlekaboodle:I don't implicitly trust business. I never said
I did. Many of them are bad. I don't have to support any of them since I
can choose to spend my dollars wherever I want. None of them have the power to
force me to buy their products or use their services. If any of them mistreat me
as a customer, I will direct my business to a competitior or some other venture
entirely.Government on the other hand has the power to tax me, to
force me to buy a product (Obamacare), and put me in jail if I refuse to do
those things. That is why I am more scared of government abuses that private
sector ones.JoeBlow:I might have painted liberals with a
broad brush, but I have yet to meet one who thinks that the current 50% total
taxes that many high earners pay, is too much. They are constantly pushing for
even higher taxes.
There's a simple solution to see whether we need a free market system.
Just have business owners close up their businesses. Let those who tell us that
labor unions are the answer hire all the fired people. Let those who berate the
investors invest their own money. Let's see how fast the IRS would have to
close it's doors. Let's see how long Air Force One could shuttle
Obama between golf courses after every business shut its doors.Business does not need more regulations. We are being regulated out of
business. Who regulates the regulators? Who protects the U.S. Businesses from
cheap (i.e. unregulated) foreign competition? Who decides what regulations we
need? Does Al Gore? He told us that New York would be underwater by now if we
didn't pass his carbon tax. Was he right? How many of the elite know any
more than Al Gore about cause and effect? The elite are still flying their
private jets all over the world. Are they exempt?Almost all
regulation is nothing more than a grab for power.
I am not anti business but I can not stand when republicans say that businesses
are job creators. I hope business owners do not think they are job creators and
realize paying customers are job creators.
"I have yet to meet one who thinks that the current 50% total taxes that
many high earners pay, is too much"Certainly you could cherry
pick and find some "high earners" "paying 50% total taxes".But they would be the exception.The average federal tax bill
for "high earners" is about 23%. Many pay far far less than
that (Romney for example).
"Suppose there are two fruit stands selling peaches and only 100 cars will
drive by each day. A buyer who purchases peaches at stand A is a sale lost to
stand B. A and B are in a win-lose game in this example. But that’s not
how it really works." ====== That IS not how it
works.If store A and B tried to improve their product, service, and
lower their price --THAT would be wonderful.But in Reality, If
store B can't win on merits alone, rather than improve itself, it will lie,
cheat, and steal, and trash talk, SUE, run false ads, sabotage, and do
everything it can to KILL the competition.And THAT is why I'm so down
on "Business".As for "Capitalism" and China...What Mr. Bell does not say -- is that Capitalism in Chain is NOT what
"created" anything new...in reality what happened was
AMERICA's Middle class simply "redistributed", off-shored, and
out-sourced to Communist Red China, by the very businesses he is praising.Sold Out!, in other words.
No doubt we need businesses. But we don't need businesses who prey on their
own employees, something that has happened to me. It's like middle managers
these days feel they have handed you a winning lottery ticket just because they
condescended to hire you, because the economy is bad. (Things get a lot
different real quick when the economy is good.)Arrogant middle
managers will fire you for flimsy or even non-existent reasons if they feel like
it these days, and co-workers won't hesitate to back-stab a fellow employee
who does nothing but work, keep their head down, and mind their own business.Congratulations, Dave. You, Jennifer, and Trisha were most persistent in
your determination to get me fired, with or without cause, as Utah law allows.
Since no cause was ever found, you fired me anyway - on New Year's Eve day,
no less. Nice touch.Oh, and I love how you're now telling all
prospective employers that you've never heard of me, making it all but
impossible for me to get another job, even after all this time. Well-played. You
certainly accomplished your aim.
Mike Richards. All regulations are an exercise of power. When the
government creates the regulations it is assumed to be the power of the people
telling business the how, when and what of business operations. It is the
people's right and authority to do so. Government
regulation and control is the main purpose of government. That is so even when
unscrupulous business men use the power of government to do selfish actions.
The segregating of the task is intended to make such miscarriages of government
as difficult as possible. The denial of the power and authority for
the government to do its job, is the act and agenda of criminal people who want
the freedom to cheat.
"If someone makes money, then someone else has to lose money. "Most profit comes from hired labor not being paid fully for the value it adds.
This is the Marxian perspective and it is important.Now one can
argue that the other benefits of capitalism outweigh the cheating of labor, but
labor's position in capitalism explains the problems we have with it. Marx
needs to be read.
to JCS...The Licoln quote was nice but you had to add your 2 cents
about Antt-capitalsm = Anti-American which I'm betting that was a major
theme on Hannity this week?A major component of American Capitalism
is the Federal Reserve. So, as Jefferrson said... "The central
bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the
Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting
bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks
to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive
the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on
the continent their Fathers conquered."
to Mike RichardsMaybe the House GOP can end their lawsuit of Obama,
do their Constitutional duty (for a change), & come up with a budget that
includes reducing the Corporate Tax Rate???
re: Noodlekaboodle this afternoonWouldn't using whatever
twisted reasoning that makes Corporations people apply equally to Gov't
I totally agree with this letter.... Legitimate, productive businesses are
America's golden goose...There are many people who want to kill
the golden goose?Then what???Marxism? Communism? North
Korea? Everybody worshiping the Government and barely subsisting on the black
market or the Government Dole, and whatever aid they can squeeze or beg from the
remaining Capitalist countries???
@marxist.... "If someone makes money, then someone else has to lose
money"....Not true. Google "Is economy a zero-sum
game"...Economics is NOT a zero-sum game. The TRUTH
is... value CAN be created in a growing economy.Do you actually
think every dollar in the US Economy today existed in someone else's hands
before the United States was even formed??? That no value has ever been
created? That in business for someone to win, someone has to loose?Who is the "winner", and who is the "looser" when you buy
something? I think you are both winners. You BOTH got something you wanted
more than what you gave for it!If a person discovers gold, or oil,
catches a fish, or builds a house, or a skyscraper, or a restaurant, or a gym,
writes a song, or a book... they have ADDED value to the economy. And that
economy grows a little for EVERYBODY.If you seriously think
economics is a zero-sum science... You need to go back to school.
@Noodlekaboodle,Re: "Fundamentally, there isn't a huge
difference between a massive corporation, and the government"...Oh really... - Can a corporation pass laws?- Can a corporation
regulate or control our behavior (by passing laws that govern us)? - Can
a business tax us?- Can a business take away your children?- Can a
business put you in jail for not doing what they want?- Can a business
force your child to go to war?I think they are fundamentally
Congress owes nothing to the Executive Branch. Obama can whine and wail all he
wants, but his job is to execute the laws passed by Congress. The PEOPLE
elected the House. The House is Republican. The PEOPLE wanted a Conservative
approach to taxes and to regulations. Obama disagrees. Reid disagrees. Both
of them want the House to slink away so that Obama can dictate from the Oval
Office all laws that he deems necessary. Reid refuses to even consider the
bills passed by the House. He won't let the Senate vote on a Senate
version of those bills.We have separate branches of government for a
purpose. The House represents the People, not the President. The Senate
represents the States, not the President. The President is the CEO (Chief
Executive Officer) of the United States. His job is to see that the laws passed
by the People's Representatives and the laws passed by the State's
Representatives are executed according to law.If he were to do that,
business would flourish and America would recover. His tantrums are destroying
our economy. He is failing in his sworn duties.
RE: 2bits @marxist.... "If someone makes money, then someone else has to
lose money"....I was quoting the writer of the article.
Here is a simple fact, A business, any business big or small is in business for
just one reason and that is to make its owners money. A business is not created
for any other reason.It seems like most liberal posts here resent money
makers. Could you please tell me how your leaders such as the Clinton's,
the Gores, the Obamas and the Harry Reid's all came into office fairly poor
and left office fairly rich. Your heroes are making money and making lots of it
and they are not sharing with their voters.
KJB1,Your post was offensive. You have decided that you can speak
for me. Please refrain from assuming that you can speak for me in the future.I believe in the Constitution, as written, not as some wished that it
were written. The PEOPLE are represented by the House. The States are
represented by the Senate. The President has no legislative authority.
Congress is not required to listen to anything proposed by the Executive Branch.
Even if the President had won every electoral vote, he still could not
legislate nor could he "bully" Congress or the Court.Congress has limited authority to regulate business. Interstate Commerce is
an exception. Congress can regulate Interstate Commerce so that all States are
treated fairly. Read Article 1, Section 8 where the authorized duties of
Congress are enumerated.Unfair regulation of business has driven
businesses off-shore. Lower corporate taxes in other nations have created a
hostile tax environment for businesses in America. No family would buy milk at
$10 a gallon when the family could buy it for $3. Corporations go where they
So I just took the time to read all the posts, and while there is and always
will be differences of opinion on what is a fair tax, and what is a necessary
regulation it struck me that there is one idea that pollutes this discussion.
I'm sure this will be dis-credited because it comes from me (a
progressive), but here it is.It is the assumption by the right that
the "left" sees government as a substitute for business. The article
itself makes this abundantly clear when in the beginning he says the USSR
substituted government for free enterprise and it didn't work. Who cares
unless you are implying that the left in America see Government as a prime
provider of services and goods. This assumption is absolutely
false. The "left" sees government as an arbitrator, and a catalyst,
when it comes to commerce but not as a primary provider. The
liberals on this post spend half of their time defending their commitment to
regulated capitalism and denying an attitude that doesn't exist in the
Re: "I can not stand when republicans say that businesses are job
creators" (shaun)...You can't stand it... Yet it's
true. Businesses DO create jobs.==============You say
customers create jobs. They are part of the process, but let's do a
mental experiment.Pretend you want to create some jobs. Think...
How can I create jobs?... You have 2 ideas. 1) You could open a taco stand on
your street corner and hire somebody to run it. 2) You stand on the corner
with money in hand, or go to another corner and buy a taco.Who
"Created" job?You buying a taco? Or you opening a store and
hiring somebody to run it???The business created a job. Customers
are needed, but did the customer create a job? Or the business?=============Businesses also create new customers. When your
neighbors see the taco stand on the corner, they may also decide to buy some
tacos. And Walla... the business created both Jobs AND Customers.Businesses need customers. But customers don't factually
"create" jobs.==========If customers create
jobs... Why does Obama blame business for NOT creating jobs??? He should blame
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