Quantcast

Comments about ‘Teeples: The Big 12 simply can't afford to add BYU’

Return to article »

Published: Wednesday, July 30 2014 2:00 p.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

TrueBlue,

What evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't invited to the Pac 12 for religious reasons. I've heard that thrown about by BYU fans a lot, but never seen anyone offer up any quotes from credible sources to prove it. There are so many other reasons that religion doesn't even need to come into the conversation. Please let the religious bigotry idea die and stop trying to make BYU out to be a martyr school.

Taysom4Heisman
Heber City, UT

@Mormon Ute

You bring up a good point about byutv. It is not a very well-viewed channel even though it is technically a national network. However, byutv only airs 1 game each year against our FCS opponent, which would not be very well-viewed anyway, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.

However, you are incorrect on BYU's ranking in viewership. They are in fact the 15th most watched team in the nation, regardless of network. I will admit that we have a huge advantage in the fact that every single one of our games in the last 4 years has been nationally televised with the exception of the Oregon State game in 2012. Not even Alabama or Florida State can say that.

So yes, it may be a bit of a skewed statistic since we are always on ESPN, but when all is said and done we still have the 15th best TV ratings in college football.

JD
Las Vegas, NV

I think the writer of the article is being a bit misleading. The word "BYU" would not have come up at any of the media days of the power 5 conferences, unless someone from the Desert News or KSL may have been assigned to cover the event with the purpose of asking that specific question of whether expansion will include Provo or do these big leagues consider BYU a somewhat power team, and the answer was very clear. BYU was or is not any agenda.

skywalker
Palo Alto, CA

Mormon Ute

"What evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't invited to the Pac 12 for religious reasons."

It's common knowledge.

Of course you're not going to find any official sources from the PAC 12 to confirm that, but it's a well known fact that at least a couple of PAC 12 presidents objected to the conference inviting any religiously affiliated schools. That's why Colorado was quickly invited, practically in the middle of the night, to shut Baylor out of the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger talks, and the reason why Utah, with a weaker athletic program, almost no football history, and a significantly smaller fanbase, was invited instead of BYU.

Sure, the PAC 12 insisted in public that they were only looking for "research" schools, but curiously, there was never a peep said about "research" when Oklahoma State and Texas Tech were being considered, even though both schools had the exact same "high research" standing as BYU.

poyman
Lincoln City, OR

So Cletus, did you change your name to steamroller?... You made a lot more sense when you were Cletus?

So Mendenhall planted the B12 seed as a diversion for rules violations? Lol, now that's funny... You can't see that kind of humor on SNL... Nope, you have to read ute fan comments on BYU Football articles if you really want some entertainment.

I love these articles DN... It helps me keep up with the action in college football and it saves me from going through the web to find information on BYU.

As for SOS for the Cougs? I think that their match ups this year are good... No one can argue about the expected strength of the Longhorns... Boise State is formidable... and UCF proved themselves very well last year by winning their conference and by winning a BCS Bowl... The softer parts of the Coug's schedule are the other two P5 teams that we play and the FCS team that we play from Georgia (although you never know, ND State and Eastern WA... both FCS teams showed the big bad P5 Conferences last year that maybe they weren't all that big and bad)...

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

skywalker
Palo Alto, CA

Mormon Ute

"What evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't invited to the Pac 12 for religious reasons."

It's common knowledge.

Of course you're not going to find any official sources from the PAC 12 to confirm that, but it's a well known fact that at least a couple of PAC 12 presidents objected to the conference inviting any religiously affiliated schools.

-------------

Why don't you quote someone from ESPN or Fox Sports or CBS Sports that what you claim is a well known fact? Quoting sources from Deseret News doesn't make it common knowledge or a fact.

I haven't read anything supporting your claim, I would love to read if you have a valid source.

GrayGrantham
PHX, AZ

The premise of this article if factually incorrect. T3 revenue has absolutely no impact on expansion. The reason(s) the Big 12 isn't expanding anytime soon: #1 the unknown cost of the new model (pay for play, full cost of attendance) until that is settled there will be absolutely no consideration for expansion. #2 The Big 12 Championship Game has seen 6 presumptive champions ranked in the Top 5 defeated. The CCG has left a bad taste in their mouths, and unless the Playoff Committee penalizes the Big 12 for not having a CCG, no reason to expand.

When the B12 gets around to expanding (wont be for a few years at least) they will be expanding in or near the SEC footprint (UCF, ECU, Memphis) with schools that have 45K-50K seat stadiums and they fill them. Whoever it is ANY 2 teams will pay for themselves CCG= $25 Million, 18 more Conference games = $27 million.

Won't be BYU. My guess is that there are at least 5 Presidents who are not willing to share the wealth with the Mormon Church.

TrollPolice
Salt Lake City, UT

GrayGrantham

It's easy to just make stuff up that fits your biased view of the world, but do you have any legitimate sources to back up your farcical claims, especially your final statement?

PAC man
Anaheim, CA

Mormon Ute

@GrayGrantham "My guess is that there are at least 5 Presidents who are not willing to share the wealth with the Mormon Church."

It's out there, whether you're willing to acknowledge it or not.

GrayGrantham
PHX, AZ

@TRollPolice

I personally think BYU would be an excellent (Football Only) addition to the Big 12.

I do not believe that the President of BU, TCU and WVU share that opinion.

I said "My Guess" (lookup definition of guess) is there are 5 Presidents who would not want to share the wealth with the Mormon church.

It only take 3 votes to deny membership.

source: google - Big 12 Bylaws

1.5.2 Actions Requiring the Vote of a Majority of Disinterested Directors
and a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors.

(b) The following actions may be taken only if approved by the affirmative vote of a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors (as defined below):

(3) Admission of a new Member or amendment of Section

(f) The term Supermajority of Disinterested Directors; with respect to any issue shall
mean seventy-five percent (75%) or more of all persons who are Disinterested Directors

Director Proposing admission of BYU, by definition becomes an "Interested Director" not
eligible to vote. The Supermajority threshold is 7 votes. Meaning any three Presidents (Baylor, TCU, WVU) could vote it down.

Do you think BU, TCU and WVU want to see BYU in the Big 12? I don't

poyman
Lincoln City, OR

@nightowl in salem, or

Your comments make me chuckle... How many times are we going to schedule Idaho State... I'm guessing about the same amount that the utes also schedule the Bengals and the fighting Wildcats from Weber State... Maybe you ought to take a peak at this year's ute schedule??? They couldn't schedule BYU but they found room for Idaho State? lol.

On your comment about increased revenue for the state of Utah perhaps you can tell me your source for the claim that total Revs are up 60%? One thing that I know for sure is that the utes still can't cover their athletic expenses and still hits the poor taxpayers of Utah to make up for the shortfall... So if they are up (which I doubt) expenses must also be up because tax requirements for ute athletic revenue supplement is still alive and well.

manaen
Buena Park, CA

A good analysis but I wonder about one critical point,

"Without the ability to collectively monetize those Tier 3 rights through subscriber count like other conferences, the Big-12 distribution is limited to the $20 million per school it receives from its Tier 1 and 2 deals. Any additional school added to the conference means less money per school. Period."

Wouldn't this be false if BYU brings more than $20 million to the Tier-1 / Tier-2 package, which would increase the $$$ each school receives? How likely would BYU be to do that?

GrayGrantham
PHX, AZ

manaen

2 Points #1 Big 12 Distribution is heavily dependent on T1 and T2 revenues (as well as NCAA tournament revenues) and T3 is NOT part of the Distribution it is not widely known but the T1/T2 Revenues are graduated. They start at the low end of approximately $25 million and graduate to approximately $40 million per school by 2024.

#2 Adding two schools to the conference at face value is two more mouths to feed except:
(a) Two more teams add a CCG, which has been appraised at approximately $25 million in value.
(b) T1/T2 rights for football are based on broadcast inventory. Ten Teams, 9 games each = 90 games. Adding two schools and keeping a 9 game conference schedule adds 18 games to the broadcast inventory for T1/T2 revenues. The Big 12 has renegotiation clauses in its T1/T2 broadcast contracts that allow them to capture the additional value IF they expand. Most of the estimates (unless your writing the check no one knows) I've seen appraise broadcast inventory at anywhere between $500,000 and $1.5 million.

Phasing in Conference Full Shares, for 2 Teams over 5 years $15M, $16M etc, saves conf $10 million.

It is not as insurmountable as some say.

NightOwlAmerica
SALEM, OR

poyman
Lincoln City, OR said
@nightowl in salem, or

"On your comment about increased revenue for the state of Utah perhaps you can tell me your source for the claim that total Revs are up 60%? One thing that I know for sure is that the utes still can't cover their athletic expenses and still hits the poor taxpayers of Utah to make up for the shortfall... So if they are up (which I doubt) expenses must also be up because tax requirements for ute athletic revenue supplement is still alive and well."

It comes from The Utah Department Community & Economic Development. And the same study is linked on the University of Utah website.
And you are misunderstanding what I said. The 60% refers to outside dollars being spent in the state of Utah, as a result of the Utes joining the PAC 12. In other words traveling fans for all sports of other schools spending money ( lodging, gas, food, shopping etc ). It's increased 60% more than when they were in the MWC. That is not direct funding to the Ute athletic department.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

Taysom4Heisman,

You are still wrong about being 15th most watched. Yes, that is the potential, but the Neilsen Ratings say it isn't actually true and ESPN reserves the right to put BYU's games on any of its channels. Last year at least two BYU games were on ESPNU and that channel gets into the same number of homes nationwide as the Pac 12 Network, because it isn't in basic cable packages like the main ESPN channels are. The Salt Lake Tribune's TV reported noted that those BYU games on ESPNU drew smaller audiences, according to the Nielsen Ratings, than the Ute's games on the Pac 12 Network for the same weeks.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

Pac Man.

You went after the wrong guy. You quoted TrollPolice and I only have one name on this board. Please try to keep that straight.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

poyman
Lincoln City, OR

@nightowl in salem, or

Your comments make me chuckle... How many times are we going to schedule Idaho State... I'm guessing about the same amount that the utes also schedule the Bengals and the fighting Wildcats from Weber State... Maybe you ought to take a peak at this year's ute schedule??? They couldn't schedule BYU but they found room for Idaho State? lol.

-----------

Are you seriously laughing at the toughest schedule in the nation, according to ESPN? If you want something to laugh at compare your 1984 schedule to your 2014 schedule.

Correction, it's not that we "couldn't schedule BYU" it's the fact that we "did not want to schedule BYU". I think even you can see the difference.

Fact is BYU "couldn't" schedule Utah, see the reason above, and 3 other P5 teams so "they found room" for Savannah State, Middle Tennessee, UNLV, and Nevada.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@poyman

In 2011 alone it was estimated 5 football home games alone generated around $5 million in direct revenue in the local economy. According to USA Today from 2006 the subsidy is 24% of revenue, which was around $9 million in 2011.

In 2011, it's a $4 million difference but there's no exact amounts listed for taxes and student fees, just one sum. No idea how much taxes were used to generate $5 million in direct revenue, there's also the indirect benefits on the local economy:

"The estimated total economic impacts to the state, both direct and indirect…. The impacts are measured by the number of supported jobs and associated earnings, gross state product, state economic output, and state tax revenue... Altogether, the five Pac-12 games of the 2011–2012 seasons supported about 210 jobs with earnings over $5 million and over $500,000 of state tax revenue"

Source: Bureau of Economic and Business Research

It seems, in a state dominated by Republicans only BYU fans, like you, are worried about "poor taxpayers of Utah" being taken advantage of by the Utah Athletic Department. May I suggest you move on to another taxpayer cause?

JDWVU
Charleston, WV

As a WVU fan and grad, I do not believe there would be complete opposition to BYU from the WVU camp if it were a matter of BYU being a "football only" member. Any opposition from WVU would probably stem from travel for its other non-football teams, or if it happened to be that the payout per team were reduced by adding a team, BYU or otherwise.

WVU and BYU are scheduled to face off in D.C. next year, I believe. I would venture to guess that there will be some conversation between the two schools on some level about the B12 and BYU, but at the end of the day, WVU is one school in a conference of 10, and until we start pulling our weight in the league, I don't think our administration would go against the consensus in the conference.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

skywalker,

You make me laugh. It's not a fact until you can document it. All you have is speculation and it usually comes from BYU fans. Even Darwin's theory is just that, a theory, because scientists haven't uncovered enough evidence to call it a fact yet.

As far as Utah having almost no football history. I laugh out loud again. Not only does Utah have more football history over the past 20 years than BYU with two BCS bowl wins that brought the Utes two top 5 final national rankings, but we have also won more head to head battles with BYU. Then if you look at the history before Lavelle arrived at BYU the Utes dominated that as well. I'll grant you BYU has a national title and that does mean something, but it was a long time ago and it has been at least 5 years since BYU finished in the top 25.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments