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Comments about ‘Brad Rock: BYU, Utah — married for eternity’

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Published: Saturday, July 26 2014 11:40 p.m. MDT

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DuckInSLC
Sandy, UT

Bluto: "The Gold Standard for Academic Rankings (which every Major University touts) is USNWR."

I hate to disappoint you but you're just wrong in this assessment. I've worked and done research at the university level. I've talked with administrators. Research status as measured by the Carnegie Classification of Institutes of Higher Education, and AAU status are the measuring sticks they use. In fact many care about Forbes ranking more than USNWR.

When conferences evaluate schools for inclusion these are the measuring criteria they use. BYU is a very good undergrad school, and I dare say a very good research school. Unfortunately for them their focus isn't on research so their research endowment and the amount they do don't put them in tier 1 status.

DuckInSLC
Sandy, UT

WA-Alum: "And DuckInSLC, anyone with the interest to count them can see which side of the divide nearly all the negative comments come from."

Haha, well I'm not going to count them but it seems both sides have their share of rabid fans and reasonable fans. That seems to be the case with most fans of any school or conference. I've just never seen a rivalry that seems this personal and heated. Maybe for some that's a good thing, but it seems pretty negative (at least to me) overall. Maybe things will simmer down with the hiatus.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

I agree that right now BYU and Utah are still at about the same level. However, I expect to see a separation occur, unless BYU puts together some sort of major conference affiliation. The changes in college football are forcing out the independents. Notre Dame obviously recognized this and formed an alliance with the ACC. BYU recognizes this. Otherwise, why would Bronco be openly courting the Big 12. The independence experiment has run its course and BYU will need to form some sort of agreement with a major conference to remain competitive at it's current level.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: steamroller

I think Brad Rock stated "lately" because few people care about games pre-1950 and BYU dominated the rivalry for most of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

As for BYU's lame schedule... Utah overall record (that you just cited) was against nearly identical schedules. It is true that Utah now has three whole seasons with increased SOS, but even with that BYU is pulling together some decent schedules. And how do you explain this...

2013 BYU SOS #33, results 8-5 and bowling
2012 Utah SOS #36, results 5-7, no bowl

When BYU had a comparable schedule (in the PAC/Indy era) they had better overall results. How is that possible? Spin away.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Wiscougarfan:

"I think Brad Rock stated 'lately' because few people care about games pre-1950..."

And if you venture outside of WACistan, you'll find that few people care about games pre-1998 (aka, the BCS-era) as well. Either way, steamroller was correct about Utah dominating the rivalry. Whether it's Utah's .625 record during the BCS era, or it's .626 record during the all-time series, Utah dominates their little brother down south.

scott
Alpine, UT

Naval Vet

"And if you venture outside of WACistan you'll find that few people care about games pre-1998 (aka, the BCS-era) as well."

LOL!

That's one of the most ridiculous statements ever made on these blogs.

You don't think Miami, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Penn State, Georgia, Alabama Pittsburgh, Florida State, Michigan, USC, and Texas fans care about the national championships and the games that helped them win those national championship prior to 1998???

Who's fooling who here.

BYU has dominated the rivalry since BYU and Utah joined a conference that fans younger than your great grandfather actually remember.

Name me one significant accomplishment that the Utes had on a national scale prior to joining the WAC.

* crickets *

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

Bluto
Sandy, UT

"The Gold Standard for Academic Rankings (which every Major University touts) is USNWR."

You're the best, Bluto. That said...we have clearly shown hear that USNWR is the Gold Standard only for byu people trying to make themselves feel better.

As you said...Game, Set, match...

LadyMoon
Crestucky, FL

Not quite, Chris B. Mrs. Utah left the marriage for an out of work, circus performer. Lucky for Mr. BYU, the marriage had not been consummated, saving us any grief whatsoever!

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

shorts
Payson, UT

@Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

He said Texas tied for 2nd in the Big12. This is a correct statement.
Yes, Boise State is not in a P5 conference but Utah has never beaten them.

------------

No he did not, he said, "We played (and beat) Texas, runner up in the B12". That is a false statement. He never said "tied for 2nd".

An 8-5 team is not a runner up when TWO other teams were significantly better: #6 Oklahoma and #17 Oklahoma State. Texas fans are not claiming to be 2013 Big 10 runner-up, only BYU fans are.

Utah never played the 2013 Boise State team, which was your ONLY win over Boise State. Regardless, they are not a P5 team.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Wiscougarfan

2013 BYU SOS #33, results 8-5 and bowling
2012 Utah SOS #36, results 5-7, no bowl

When BYU had a comparable schedule (in the PAC/Indy era) they had better overall results. How is that possible? Spin away.

-----------

Utah: 3-0 vs mid-majors and 2-7 vs P5 teams

BYU: 6-0 vs mid-majors and 2-5 vs P5 teams

The talent at Colorado and Virgina is significantly better than teams like Middle Tennessee.

Rose Bowl call yet?
Salt Lake City, UT

Uteology

Regardless of how you spin it, Texas(6-2), Oklahoma(6-2) and Oklahoma St.(6-2) all tied for 2nd place in the Big 12 in 2013, which has no tie-breaker because it has no conference championship game.

In anybody's book, except a jealous Ute fan, 2nd place is runner-up.

Who cares whether you played BSU in 2013? The point is, Utah has never beaten an FBS Boise St team; in fact, you've been dominated by the Broncos for over a decade.

FACTchequer
Salt Lake City, UT

Uteology

So Utah (22%) had a worse record versus P5's than BYU (29%) in 2013.

BYU's chances of picking up another win if BYU had played another P5, 1 in 3.

Utah's chances, 1 in 5.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: Uteology

"The talent at Colorado and Virgina is significantly better than teams like Middle Tennessee."

While "the talent" may be superior, that does not mean the teams are (good thing too, because Utah will never have the talent to compete in the PAC12). Only Crimson colored glasses would keep one from seeing that "teams like Middle Tennessee" are equal to or superior to the dregs of P5 conferences.

One objective source to check might be the actual Sagarin ratings for last season (the season you chose to compare). Sagarin ratings for the bottom dwellers in the PAC12: Washington State #40, Colorado #74, California #118. Sagarin ratings for "teams like Middle Tennessee": Houston #50, Boise State #47, Utah State #41, Georgia Tech #37.

Set the spin cycle to ON.

DixieCoug
St. George, UT

The difference between BYU and Utah is, had the roles been reversed and BYU were in the Pac 12 and not Utah, the Cougars would not be fighting the second tier conference teams for last place.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Wiscougarfan

Speaking of spin, you forgot to include Sagarin ranking for Middle Tennessee. Why?

#32 Texas 8-5
#33 Utah 5-7
#35 BYU 8-5

#98 Nevada 4-8
#103 Middle Tennessee 8-5
#106 Virginia 2-10 (only win over a D2 school and BYU)
#118 California 1-11 (only win was over D2 school)

So MT with 5/6 more wins is barley better then P5 bottom feeders.

Looking at NFL rosters one can easily see why Cal/Virginia would OWN CUSA.

Middle Tennessee 9
Virgina 28
California 38

@FACTchequer: "BYU's chances of picking up another win if BYU had played another P5, 1 in 3."

Depends, who would BYU be playing? Will you be playing them back-to-back?

If you played a team like Cal 1-11 and #11 Stanford then yes you might pick up another win over Cal.

But if you played a team like Washington State 6-7 and #11 Stanford then no. Because BYU has not beat a P12 team with 4 or more wins since 2010. In fact, you easily lost to 5-7 PAC-12 team at home.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Rose Bowl call yet?

Who cares whether you played BSU in 2013? The point is, Utah has never beaten an FBS Boise St team; in fact, you've been dominated by the Broncos for over a decade.

-------------

If you want to count Texas as runner up the so be it. But they were not the 2nd best team in the Big 12 last year.

Are you going to claim that Utah couldn't beat this Boise State 8-5 team, their worst team since 1998, at RES even though we were easily able to handle BYU at LES?

So you are trying to tell us that Boise State would be a tougher team to beat at RES then BYU was is at LES?

That might be true, you guys are an annual guarantee win.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: Uteology

Interesting that you didn't address what I called you out on (that the teams "like MTSU" were equal or tougher opponents than the bottom of the PAC. Instead you (like all good trolls) changed the topic to "players in the NFL." O.K. I'll bite. You said:

"Looking at NFL rosters one can easily see why Cal/Virginia would OWN CUSA.

Middle Tennessee 9
Virgina 28
California 38"

If you're going to talk about "teams like Middle Tennessee State" you should list details for at least ONE team BYU played that isn't Middle Tennessee State. Other players on NFL rosters include:

Houston 14
Boise State 22
Utah State 17
Georgia Tech 23

Now you're right that none of these teams have as many players in the NFL as some of the P5 cellar dwellers. I think that goes to show that teams can indeed have success with inferior talent (good news for both BYU and Utah if they want to compete on a national scale).

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ DixieCoug

Based on what? Utah, TCU, and even WVU all have struggled so far in their new conferences. BYU's record the past couple years against P5 schools has been terrible. What makes you think they will be able to put it together when they play quality teams week in and week out.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

DixieCoug,

You've got to take off the blue goggles so you can see clearly. Take it from a Ute fan who expected more, it isn't as easy as you think. It turns out all the people who were saying, 'Wait until you play the big boys every week.' were right. It's one thing to beat the occasional team from a power conference, but it's completely different when you play them every week. Coach Whitt has said several times, speed at the skill positions and depth at every position have hurt the Utes. BYU isn't any faster or deeper than Utah and in fact may be less so, considering the last 4 meetings between the two. TCU has had virtually the same experience the Utes had and they were regularly beating BYU in the MWC. The evidence just isn't there to suggest BYU would have an easier time in the transition.

Tomahawk Red
San Francisco, CA

scott
Alpine, UT

Name me one significant accomplishment that the Utes had on a national scale prior to joining the WAC.

----------

LOL!

You're asking me to name one accomplishment Utah made before the 1960s? You're kidding, right?

What's most relevant is the last 10 years. What some care about is the last 20 years. Utah dominates both. What people don't care about is over 20 years, and that's where BYU had its brief period of dominance.

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