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Comments about ‘Brad Rock: BYU, Utah — married for eternity’

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Published: Saturday, July 26 2014 11:40 p.m. MDT

Updated: Monday, July 28 2014 7:06 a.m. MDT

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ekute
Layton, UT

Scores,

byu could have more wins than one of the playoff teams. Enjoy your beach bowl legacy.

DuckInSLC
Sandy, UT

Tomahawk Red:
I can certainly see where my response to Chris B could have been unclear. Thank you for calling me on it so I could see that.

The issue I have with your points is that my statements were about my opinion. I never said "we" while referring to the PAC12 as he did. I would have liked to see BYU included. I know many others (at least in the Eugene Oregon area) that wouldn't mind seeing BYU in the conference. That's my opinion and the opinions of some other Duck fans that I know.

As for my suggestion that people might be deluding themselves if they thought athletic departments or other PAC12 fans wouldn't want BYU you've used a Strawman. I never said that all fans and athletic depts "most certainly would be ok" with BYU. I said that someone who blankety believes that fans or athletic depts in the PAC12 "wouldn't be ok" with BYU is probably deluding themselves considering the BYU fanbase in this footprint and the indisputable fact that many programs have games scheduled with BYU in the near future. See the difference?

DuckInSLC
Sandy, UT

Tomahawk Red:
Continued...

As for your "begging question" I answered that in my post. Because it's NOT fanbases and athletic departments but ADMINISTRATORS who determine membership, BYU was not invited. In this regard I do agree that it was because these administrators care about research status. BYU is not an AAU or tier 1 research school so that kept them out (administrators care about this, not fans and athletic depts). I completely agree with Two For Flinching's assessment of research status and inclusion in the conference.

greatbam22
andrews afb, MD

It is interesting how much time / energy / money is wasted on destructive / prideful comments vs trying to help the other programs do better.

Imagine if both fan bases instead used their time / energy to support both fan bases instead.

I will admit I allowed myself to be dragged into it a few times when I lived out in Idaho but thankfully I live on the east coast and don't have to think about it that much.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: TomahawkRed

"You mean the only P5 conference that doesn't play a title game? Okay, you beat one disputed (and mediocre) runner-up in the P5."

Middle Tennessee (who we also beat), runner up in the C-USA and Utah State (who we also beat), winner of MWC."
I believe he meant P5 runners up. Not mid majors.

"We also played Wisconsin (3rd in B10), Notre Dame (top independent), Boise State (3rd in MWC)."
Irrelevant. He said conference champ or runner-up. 3rd in the MWC impresses NO ONE."

...

Your just-barely-invited to-the-big-boy-table bias is showing. The Big 12 was a really solid conference until a couple months ago when the Utah media started speculation about a possible invite to BYU. The winner of the MWC was pretty impressive four years ago when Utah was in that conference. And saying that beating Boise State "impresses NO ONE" carries little weight considering Utah is 0-3 against them (all recent losses).

I never claimed BYU had an outstanding season last season, but to make it sound like they played a horrible schedule when their SOS would rank #2 all-time for Utah seems a little silly.

CougOrUte..Naah
Nibley, UT

From an outsider,(An Aggie Fan) most of the comments made on this subject are really quite humorous. I have lived in Utah for 50+ years and whether Ute and Cougar fans like it or not, the 2 programs are joined at the hips. Although Utah has won the last 4 meetings, the two programs really are playing at the same level. Had Utah and BYU switched schedules last year, I submit to you that Utah would have ended up with the same record and BYU did, and BYU with the same record as Utah had. The main difference is that Utah would have beaten a very poor Virginia team...ouch. For now and for years to come successes of these two programs will be measured against one another, whether they play or not. Utah fans will always throw the SOS excuse in BYU's face and BYU fans will always throw the "No Bowl For U" in Utah's face. Change the argument guys, or realize your tied together....forever. Your not only brothers....but twins.

Strider303
Salt Lake City, UT

Reading the comments is fun. I think that one item that is significant in this rivalry is stadium size and crowd attendance. TV market share when on the Telly is also important.

In my humble opinion, money is what backs or drives college sports. The Utes seem to have a problem drawing fans to their stadium. Somewhere along the line, direct fan attendance and support is important. If Utah is to survive in the PAC 12 fan support is necessary. Should a down-size take place I am of the opinion Colorado and Utah would be dropped quickly due to cost benefit factors.

The "Y" is an OK team and shows flashes of brilliance and is the team most likely to be chosen to play in the homecoming game. We (I'm BYU '68) will never recruit the players in sufficient numbers to establish the team as a consistent top twenty team.

Utah was an after thought and filled out the PAC 10 to 12 dance card. I hope they do well but they too will lack the players in sufficient numbers to do more that knock off a good team now and then.

And the beat goes on....

truth_avenger
Lehi, UT

I love BYU and its mission; however, Kyle and the Utes own Bronco and the Cougs. Kyle worked under Urban Meyer; Bronco wasn't Gary Crowton. It doesn't matter the level of hype, how well BYU is playing--it can be at home or at Rice-Eccles, BYU will choke. The Utes enjoy a mental advantage that BYU cannot duplicate. If BYU were in the PAC and had Utah's record there would have been too many people calling for Bronco's head for the team to function effectively. BYU fans don't comprehend loyalty through building years and Bronco--while a great man, is not capable of winning the big games against teams with winning records. The Mendenhall era will be an era of mediocrity snatched from the jaws of success. He promoted Brandon Domain to his level of incompetence, he refuses to be a head coach and let go of the defense--which has performed at less than the sum of its parts. Kyle owns Bronco--put BYU in the PAC 14 and they lose every year until Ty Detmer is head coach at BYU.

Cali blue
Coalinga, CA

Here is a fact for our friends in red. Orlando Sentinel ranks MTSU at #68...the u is ranked at #101.

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

Strider303
Salt Lake City, UT

"In my humble opinion, money is what backs or drives college sports. The Utes seem to have a problem drawing fans to their stadium."

LOL!!!! You are kidding, right? Tell you what, sport...go to RES on game day and try to buy a ticket.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Strider303

"The Utes seem to have a problem drawing fans to their stadium."

Utah season ticket renewal rates have been at 98% for the past 4 years, and Utah has sold out every game for the past half decade.

Also, Utah and CU won't be dropped because 1) the PAC-12 doesn't have the power do that and 2) the conference makes a ton of money thanks to the CCG.

"We (I'm BYU '68) will never recruit the players in sufficient numbers to establish the team as a consistent top twenty team."

We are reminded ad nauseam on this board that BYU has been a perennially ranked team since the 80's. I'm not sure what the point of your post was, but I think you're wrong on all accounts. Utah and BYU both run good programs and will be just fine.

FanOfTheSith
Vernal, UT

Well, it is good and fun rivalry. Just don't get in between the Offensive and Defensive Linemen when they clash. The love bug Volkswagen would get incinerated when those massive bodies of the Bleeding Blue / Bleeding Red Titans clashed on the Football field.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Bluto
Sandy, UT

Until Utah's Mid Major Football program produces.........

-------------

Poor Bluto! Why don't you first try producing a win over Utah this decade. Or is that asking too much from the legacy program down south?

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Wiscougarfan

"BYU was 2-5 vs power conference teams last year, and they didn't even play a conference champion or runner up."

Wrong. We played (and beat) Texas, runner up in the B12; Middle Tennessee (who we also beat), runner up in the C-USA; and Utah State (who we also beat), winner of MWC. We also played Wisconsin (3rd in B10), Notre Dame (top independent), Boise State (3rd in MWC).

------------

Wrong?

First, Utah State, Boise State, and Middle Tennessee are not P5 teams.

Second, Texas was 7-2 and tied for 2nd but was 8-5 overall finishing 4th behind 11-1 Baylor, 11-2 Oklahoma, and 10-3 Oklahoma State.

Third, Notre Dame was tied with Navy at 9-4.

So the only one you got right is Wisconsin finishing 3rd in the Big 10.

shorts
Payson, UT

@ Hey Baby,

"National Chumps...1984...disputed ( BYU was #1 in both major polls only dispute it in a utes head) ....gas was $1.01 per gallon
Heisman...1990...legit...gas was $1.16"

In todays dollars how about $3.78 (1979) or $10 (1920)?

What was the point?

shorts
Payson, UT

@ekute

Layton, UT
"Yeah, It's like the wife(byu) clinging to her husband's(Utah) ankle pleading "don't leave me"."

That is just bad taste.

shorts
Payson, UT

@Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

He said Texas tied for 2nd in the Big12. This is a correct statement.
Yes, Boise State is not in a P5 conference but Utah has never beaten them.

Bluto
Sandy, UT

@TwoFur and Wiscougfan

No, you're both wrong!
Your cute little ARWU poll out of Communist China (Shanghai) has nothing to do with ACADEMICS. Which is what we are discussing and of which I was responding to. ACADEMNIC Rankings!

ARWU is based on research dollars spent and not even on patents pending in relation to research dollars spent as BYU trump Utah in that category as well.

In a report from April 2009, J-C. Billaut, D. Bouyssou and Ph. Vincke analyze how the ARWU works, using their insights as specialists of Multiple Criteria Decision Making (MCDM). Their main conclusions are that the criteria used are not relevant; that the aggregation methodology has a number of major problems; and that insufficient attention has been paid to fundamental choices of criteria.[26].

Others have pointed out, the ARWU is known for "relying solely on research indicators", and "the ranking is heavily weighted toward institutions whose faculty or alumni have won Nobel Prizes": it does not measure "the quality of teaching or the quality of humanities."[6][28].

The Gold Standard for Academic Rankings (which every Major University touts) is USNWR.

Game, Set, match...

WA_Alum&Dad
Marysville, WA

Yawn. The same tired story gets the same tired comments from the same tired commenters.

And DuckInSLC, anyone with the interest to count them can see which side of the divide nearly all the negative comments come from.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: Bluto

"The Gold Standard for Academic Rankings (which every Major University touts) is USNWR.

Game, Set, match..."

I'm sorry, I thought your argument was regarding why BYU should or should not qualify for acceptance into the PAC12 based on academics. If that is the case then what I said earlier still holds. Being a top tier research school is very important to the PAC.

As far as USNWR being the "gold standard", that depends on who you talk to. In my experience as a professor at four different universities (including two in the Big 10) most academics view USNWR as nothing more than a popularity contest and marketing tool for niche recruiting. That doesn't mean it can't have some value, but it certainly isn't as important as popular media would have you believe.

With all that being said, I agree with you that academically (meaning quality and rigor of undergraduate education) BYU is leagues above Utah. Go Cougs!

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