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Brad Rock: BYU, Utah — married for eternity

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  • Boy of Fall Spanish Fork, UT
    July 30, 2014 1:49 p.m.

    @soonerute sounds a lot like everything the utes sacrificed for a bunch of stickers for your car windows without your team name even on it lol

  • still_thinking Draper, UT
    July 30, 2014 1:10 p.m.

    If I read the comments I would think the article stated that BYU was better than Utah or that Utah was better than BYU. I think the point of the article was to reference that on a national scale BYU and Utah are viewed as teams of similar caliber. I think rationale people would agree. Over the last 20 years all but a few of those games have been won by 7 points or less. When they were in the same conference they were both consistently at the top of the conference. The fact that Utah moved from the MWC to the PAC did not suddenly make them a better team or give them a history as a football powerhouse. In Utah there is a wide debate over who is better. Outside of Utah (again and again and again) the analysts and the computer statistics say - BYU and Utah have similar quality Football programs.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 29, 2014 9:12 p.m.

    Wiscougarfan
    River Falls, WI

    RE: Uteology

    Interesting that you didn't address what I called you out on (that the teams "like MTSU" were equal or tougher opponents than the bottom of the PAC. Instead you (like all good trolls) changed the topic to "players in the NFL."

    ----------------

    I clearly said: "The talent at Colorado and Virgina is significantly better than teams like Middle Tennessee."

    You said: "Only Crimson colored glasses would keep one from seeing that "teams like Middle Tennessee" are equal to or superior to the dregs of P5 conferences."

    So I never claimed "that the teams "like MTSU" were equal or tougher opponents than the bottom of the PAC", it was you (see above).

    Then you went on to make an argument for:

    * Boise State (0-2 vs P5 teams)
    * Utah State (0-2 vs P5 teams)
    * Houston (0-1 vs P5 teams)
    * Georgia State (which is NOT a team like MTSU considering they play in a P5 league)

    So your argument is BS, USU, and Houston who are a combined 0-5 vs P5 teams would be equal or superior to teams at the bottom of a P5 leagues like Cal, Virgina, Colorado, Utah, and TCU?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 29, 2014 8:35 p.m.

    Wiscougarfan
    River Falls, WI

    RE: Uteology

    Interesting that you didn't address what I called you out on (that the teams "like MTSU" were equal or tougher opponents than the bottom of the PAC. Instead you (like all good trolls) changed the topic to "players in the NFL." O.K. I'll bite.

    ---------------

    I answered it, if you can't comprehend that #103 MTSU 8-5 with 9 NFL players would be worse than P5 bottom feeders like #106 Virginia 2-10 (28 players) or #118 Cal 1-11 (38 players) playing a "real schedule" then that's on you.

    And Utah has 33 NFL players and TCU 18 (BYU 10)... so what?

    Georiga Tech is not "like MTSU", they play a real schedule.

    Houston, Boise State, and Utah State would finish at or near the bottom in a P5 league, just like Utah and TCU. Only BYU which is on par with MTSU would be in the middle of the pack in any P5 team according to Deseret News.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    July 29, 2014 7:11 p.m.

    DixieCoug
    St. George, UT said:

    "The difference between BYU and Utah is, had the roles been reversed and BYU were in the Pac 12 and not Utah, the Cougars would not be fighting the second tier conference teams for last place."

    Are you kidding! Talk about out of touch with reality. BYU would face the same problem in the BIG 12 as they would in the PAC 123. They have never ever in the history of their football program, played ranked, high profile power conference teams on a weekly basis. BYU would be average at best.

    Get real.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 29, 2014 12:16 p.m.

    scott
    Alpine, UT

    Name me one significant accomplishment that the Utes had on a national scale prior to joining the WAC.

    ----------

    LOL!

    You're asking me to name one accomplishment Utah made before the 1960s? You're kidding, right?

    What's most relevant is the last 10 years. What some care about is the last 20 years. Utah dominates both. What people don't care about is over 20 years, and that's where BYU had its brief period of dominance.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 29, 2014 12:15 p.m.

    DixieCoug,

    You've got to take off the blue goggles so you can see clearly. Take it from a Ute fan who expected more, it isn't as easy as you think. It turns out all the people who were saying, 'Wait until you play the big boys every week.' were right. It's one thing to beat the occasional team from a power conference, but it's completely different when you play them every week. Coach Whitt has said several times, speed at the skill positions and depth at every position have hurt the Utes. BYU isn't any faster or deeper than Utah and in fact may be less so, considering the last 4 meetings between the two. TCU has had virtually the same experience the Utes had and they were regularly beating BYU in the MWC. The evidence just isn't there to suggest BYU would have an easier time in the transition.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2014 11:44 a.m.

    @ DixieCoug

    Based on what? Utah, TCU, and even WVU all have struggled so far in their new conferences. BYU's record the past couple years against P5 schools has been terrible. What makes you think they will be able to put it together when they play quality teams week in and week out.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 29, 2014 8:55 a.m.

    RE: Uteology

    Interesting that you didn't address what I called you out on (that the teams "like MTSU" were equal or tougher opponents than the bottom of the PAC. Instead you (like all good trolls) changed the topic to "players in the NFL." O.K. I'll bite. You said:

    "Looking at NFL rosters one can easily see why Cal/Virginia would OWN CUSA.

    Middle Tennessee 9
    Virgina 28
    California 38"

    If you're going to talk about "teams like Middle Tennessee State" you should list details for at least ONE team BYU played that isn't Middle Tennessee State. Other players on NFL rosters include:

    Houston 14
    Boise State 22
    Utah State 17
    Georgia Tech 23

    Now you're right that none of these teams have as many players in the NFL as some of the P5 cellar dwellers. I think that goes to show that teams can indeed have success with inferior talent (good news for both BYU and Utah if they want to compete on a national scale).

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 29, 2014 5:27 a.m.

    @Rose Bowl call yet?

    Who cares whether you played BSU in 2013? The point is, Utah has never beaten an FBS Boise St team; in fact, you've been dominated by the Broncos for over a decade.

    -------------

    If you want to count Texas as runner up the so be it. But they were not the 2nd best team in the Big 12 last year.

    Are you going to claim that Utah couldn't beat this Boise State 8-5 team, their worst team since 1998, at RES even though we were easily able to handle BYU at LES?

    So you are trying to tell us that Boise State would be a tougher team to beat at RES then BYU was is at LES?

    That might be true, you guys are an annual guarantee win.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 29, 2014 4:50 a.m.

    @Wiscougarfan

    Speaking of spin, you forgot to include Sagarin ranking for Middle Tennessee. Why?

    #32 Texas 8-5
    #33 Utah 5-7
    #35 BYU 8-5

    #98 Nevada 4-8
    #103 Middle Tennessee 8-5
    #106 Virginia 2-10 (only win over a D2 school and BYU)
    #118 California 1-11 (only win was over D2 school)

    So MT with 5/6 more wins is barley better then P5 bottom feeders.

    Looking at NFL rosters one can easily see why Cal/Virginia would OWN CUSA.

    Middle Tennessee 9
    Virgina 28
    California 38

    @FACTchequer: "BYU's chances of picking up another win if BYU had played another P5, 1 in 3."

    Depends, who would BYU be playing? Will you be playing them back-to-back?

    If you played a team like Cal 1-11 and #11 Stanford then yes you might pick up another win over Cal.

    But if you played a team like Washington State 6-7 and #11 Stanford then no. Because BYU has not beat a P12 team with 4 or more wins since 2010. In fact, you easily lost to 5-7 PAC-12 team at home.

  • DixieCoug St. George, UT
    July 29, 2014 12:27 a.m.

    The difference between BYU and Utah is, had the roles been reversed and BYU were in the Pac 12 and not Utah, the Cougars would not be fighting the second tier conference teams for last place.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 28, 2014 8:34 p.m.

    RE: Uteology

    "The talent at Colorado and Virgina is significantly better than teams like Middle Tennessee."

    While "the talent" may be superior, that does not mean the teams are (good thing too, because Utah will never have the talent to compete in the PAC12). Only Crimson colored glasses would keep one from seeing that "teams like Middle Tennessee" are equal to or superior to the dregs of P5 conferences.

    One objective source to check might be the actual Sagarin ratings for last season (the season you chose to compare). Sagarin ratings for the bottom dwellers in the PAC12: Washington State #40, Colorado #74, California #118. Sagarin ratings for "teams like Middle Tennessee": Houston #50, Boise State #47, Utah State #41, Georgia Tech #37.

    Set the spin cycle to ON.

  • FACTchequer Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2014 5:33 p.m.

    Uteology

    So Utah (22%) had a worse record versus P5's than BYU (29%) in 2013.

    BYU's chances of picking up another win if BYU had played another P5, 1 in 3.

    Utah's chances, 1 in 5.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2014 5:27 p.m.

    Uteology

    Regardless of how you spin it, Texas(6-2), Oklahoma(6-2) and Oklahoma St.(6-2) all tied for 2nd place in the Big 12 in 2013, which has no tie-breaker because it has no conference championship game.

    In anybody's book, except a jealous Ute fan, 2nd place is runner-up.

    Who cares whether you played BSU in 2013? The point is, Utah has never beaten an FBS Boise St team; in fact, you've been dominated by the Broncos for over a decade.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 28, 2014 5:02 p.m.

    @Wiscougarfan

    2013 BYU SOS #33, results 8-5 and bowling
    2012 Utah SOS #36, results 5-7, no bowl

    When BYU had a comparable schedule (in the PAC/Indy era) they had better overall results. How is that possible? Spin away.

    -----------

    Utah: 3-0 vs mid-majors and 2-7 vs P5 teams

    BYU: 6-0 vs mid-majors and 2-5 vs P5 teams

    The talent at Colorado and Virgina is significantly better than teams like Middle Tennessee.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 28, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    shorts
    Payson, UT

    @Uteology
    East Salt Lake City, Utah

    He said Texas tied for 2nd in the Big12. This is a correct statement.
    Yes, Boise State is not in a P5 conference but Utah has never beaten them.

    ------------

    No he did not, he said, "We played (and beat) Texas, runner up in the B12". That is a false statement. He never said "tied for 2nd".

    An 8-5 team is not a runner up when TWO other teams were significantly better: #6 Oklahoma and #17 Oklahoma State. Texas fans are not claiming to be 2013 Big 10 runner-up, only BYU fans are.

    Utah never played the 2013 Boise State team, which was your ONLY win over Boise State. Regardless, they are not a P5 team.

  • LadyMoon Crestucky, FL
    July 28, 2014 3:25 p.m.

    Not quite, Chris B. Mrs. Utah left the marriage for an out of work, circus performer. Lucky for Mr. BYU, the marriage had not been consummated, saving us any grief whatsoever!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2014 3:07 p.m.

    Bluto
    Sandy, UT

    "The Gold Standard for Academic Rankings (which every Major University touts) is USNWR."

    You're the best, Bluto. That said...we have clearly shown hear that USNWR is the Gold Standard only for byu people trying to make themselves feel better.

    As you said...Game, Set, match...

  • scott Alpine, UT
    July 28, 2014 3:06 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "And if you venture outside of WACistan you'll find that few people care about games pre-1998 (aka, the BCS-era) as well."

    LOL!

    That's one of the most ridiculous statements ever made on these blogs.

    You don't think Miami, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Penn State, Georgia, Alabama Pittsburgh, Florida State, Michigan, USC, and Texas fans care about the national championships and the games that helped them win those national championship prior to 1998???

    Who's fooling who here.

    BYU has dominated the rivalry since BYU and Utah joined a conference that fans younger than your great grandfather actually remember.

    Name me one significant accomplishment that the Utes had on a national scale prior to joining the WAC.

    * crickets *

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 28, 2014 2:30 p.m.

    Wiscougarfan:

    "I think Brad Rock stated 'lately' because few people care about games pre-1950..."

    And if you venture outside of WACistan, you'll find that few people care about games pre-1998 (aka, the BCS-era) as well. Either way, steamroller was correct about Utah dominating the rivalry. Whether it's Utah's .625 record during the BCS era, or it's .626 record during the all-time series, Utah dominates their little brother down south.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 28, 2014 12:24 p.m.

    RE: steamroller

    I think Brad Rock stated "lately" because few people care about games pre-1950 and BYU dominated the rivalry for most of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

    As for BYU's lame schedule... Utah overall record (that you just cited) was against nearly identical schedules. It is true that Utah now has three whole seasons with increased SOS, but even with that BYU is pulling together some decent schedules. And how do you explain this...

    2013 BYU SOS #33, results 8-5 and bowling
    2012 Utah SOS #36, results 5-7, no bowl

    When BYU had a comparable schedule (in the PAC/Indy era) they had better overall results. How is that possible? Spin away.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 28, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    I agree that right now BYU and Utah are still at about the same level. However, I expect to see a separation occur, unless BYU puts together some sort of major conference affiliation. The changes in college football are forcing out the independents. Notre Dame obviously recognized this and formed an alliance with the ACC. BYU recognizes this. Otherwise, why would Bronco be openly courting the Big 12. The independence experiment has run its course and BYU will need to form some sort of agreement with a major conference to remain competitive at it's current level.

  • DuckInSLC Sandy, UT
    July 28, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    WA-Alum: "And DuckInSLC, anyone with the interest to count them can see which side of the divide nearly all the negative comments come from."

    Haha, well I'm not going to count them but it seems both sides have their share of rabid fans and reasonable fans. That seems to be the case with most fans of any school or conference. I've just never seen a rivalry that seems this personal and heated. Maybe for some that's a good thing, but it seems pretty negative (at least to me) overall. Maybe things will simmer down with the hiatus.

  • DuckInSLC Sandy, UT
    July 28, 2014 9:37 a.m.

    Bluto: "The Gold Standard for Academic Rankings (which every Major University touts) is USNWR."

    I hate to disappoint you but you're just wrong in this assessment. I've worked and done research at the university level. I've talked with administrators. Research status as measured by the Carnegie Classification of Institutes of Higher Education, and AAU status are the measuring sticks they use. In fact many care about Forbes ranking more than USNWR.

    When conferences evaluate schools for inclusion these are the measuring criteria they use. BYU is a very good undergrad school, and I dare say a very good research school. Unfortunately for them their focus isn't on research so their research endowment and the amount they do don't put them in tier 1 status.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 28, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    RE: Bluto

    "The Gold Standard for Academic Rankings (which every Major University touts) is USNWR.

    Game, Set, match..."

    I'm sorry, I thought your argument was regarding why BYU should or should not qualify for acceptance into the PAC12 based on academics. If that is the case then what I said earlier still holds. Being a top tier research school is very important to the PAC.

    As far as USNWR being the "gold standard", that depends on who you talk to. In my experience as a professor at four different universities (including two in the Big 10) most academics view USNWR as nothing more than a popularity contest and marketing tool for niche recruiting. That doesn't mean it can't have some value, but it certainly isn't as important as popular media would have you believe.

    With all that being said, I agree with you that academically (meaning quality and rigor of undergraduate education) BYU is leagues above Utah. Go Cougs!

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    July 28, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    Yawn. The same tired story gets the same tired comments from the same tired commenters.

    And DuckInSLC, anyone with the interest to count them can see which side of the divide nearly all the negative comments come from.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 28, 2014 9:11 a.m.

    @TwoFur and Wiscougfan

    No, you're both wrong!
    Your cute little ARWU poll out of Communist China (Shanghai) has nothing to do with ACADEMICS. Which is what we are discussing and of which I was responding to. ACADEMNIC Rankings!

    ARWU is based on research dollars spent and not even on patents pending in relation to research dollars spent as BYU trump Utah in that category as well.

    In a report from April 2009, J-C. Billaut, D. Bouyssou and Ph. Vincke analyze how the ARWU works, using their insights as specialists of Multiple Criteria Decision Making (MCDM). Their main conclusions are that the criteria used are not relevant; that the aggregation methodology has a number of major problems; and that insufficient attention has been paid to fundamental choices of criteria.[26].

    Others have pointed out, the ARWU is known for "relying solely on research indicators", and "the ranking is heavily weighted toward institutions whose faculty or alumni have won Nobel Prizes": it does not measure "the quality of teaching or the quality of humanities."[6][28].

    The Gold Standard for Academic Rankings (which every Major University touts) is USNWR.

    Game, Set, match...

  • shorts Payson, UT
    July 28, 2014 8:01 a.m.

    @Uteology
    East Salt Lake City, Utah

    He said Texas tied for 2nd in the Big12. This is a correct statement.
    Yes, Boise State is not in a P5 conference but Utah has never beaten them.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    July 28, 2014 6:58 a.m.

    @ekute

    Layton, UT
    "Yeah, It's like the wife(byu) clinging to her husband's(Utah) ankle pleading "don't leave me"."

    That is just bad taste.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    July 28, 2014 6:54 a.m.

    @ Hey Baby,

    "National Chumps...1984...disputed ( BYU was #1 in both major polls only dispute it in a utes head) ....gas was $1.01 per gallon
    Heisman...1990...legit...gas was $1.16"

    In todays dollars how about $3.78 (1979) or $10 (1920)?

    What was the point?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 28, 2014 3:57 a.m.

    @Wiscougarfan

    "BYU was 2-5 vs power conference teams last year, and they didn't even play a conference champion or runner up."

    Wrong. We played (and beat) Texas, runner up in the B12; Middle Tennessee (who we also beat), runner up in the C-USA; and Utah State (who we also beat), winner of MWC. We also played Wisconsin (3rd in B10), Notre Dame (top independent), Boise State (3rd in MWC).

    ------------

    Wrong?

    First, Utah State, Boise State, and Middle Tennessee are not P5 teams.

    Second, Texas was 7-2 and tied for 2nd but was 8-5 overall finishing 4th behind 11-1 Baylor, 11-2 Oklahoma, and 10-3 Oklahoma State.

    Third, Notre Dame was tied with Navy at 9-4.

    So the only one you got right is Wisconsin finishing 3rd in the Big 10.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 28, 2014 12:55 a.m.

    @Bluto
    Sandy, UT

    Until Utah's Mid Major Football program produces.........

    -------------

    Poor Bluto! Why don't you first try producing a win over Utah this decade. Or is that asking too much from the legacy program down south?

  • FanOfTheSith Vernal, UT
    July 28, 2014 12:34 a.m.

    Well, it is good and fun rivalry. Just don't get in between the Offensive and Defensive Linemen when they clash. The love bug Volkswagen would get incinerated when those massive bodies of the Bleeding Blue / Bleeding Red Titans clashed on the Football field.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2014 12:25 a.m.

    @ Strider303

    "The Utes seem to have a problem drawing fans to their stadium."

    Utah season ticket renewal rates have been at 98% for the past 4 years, and Utah has sold out every game for the past half decade.

    Also, Utah and CU won't be dropped because 1) the PAC-12 doesn't have the power do that and 2) the conference makes a ton of money thanks to the CCG.

    "We (I'm BYU '68) will never recruit the players in sufficient numbers to establish the team as a consistent top twenty team."

    We are reminded ad nauseam on this board that BYU has been a perennially ranked team since the 80's. I'm not sure what the point of your post was, but I think you're wrong on all accounts. Utah and BYU both run good programs and will be just fine.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 11:29 p.m.

    Strider303
    Salt Lake City, UT

    "In my humble opinion, money is what backs or drives college sports. The Utes seem to have a problem drawing fans to their stadium."

    LOL!!!! You are kidding, right? Tell you what, sport...go to RES on game day and try to buy a ticket.

  • Cali blue Coalinga, CA
    July 27, 2014 11:06 p.m.

    Here is a fact for our friends in red. Orlando Sentinel ranks MTSU at #68...the u is ranked at #101.

  • truth_avenger Lehi, UT
    July 27, 2014 10:29 p.m.

    I love BYU and its mission; however, Kyle and the Utes own Bronco and the Cougs. Kyle worked under Urban Meyer; Bronco wasn't Gary Crowton. It doesn't matter the level of hype, how well BYU is playing--it can be at home or at Rice-Eccles, BYU will choke. The Utes enjoy a mental advantage that BYU cannot duplicate. If BYU were in the PAC and had Utah's record there would have been too many people calling for Bronco's head for the team to function effectively. BYU fans don't comprehend loyalty through building years and Bronco--while a great man, is not capable of winning the big games against teams with winning records. The Mendenhall era will be an era of mediocrity snatched from the jaws of success. He promoted Brandon Domain to his level of incompetence, he refuses to be a head coach and let go of the defense--which has performed at less than the sum of its parts. Kyle owns Bronco--put BYU in the PAC 14 and they lose every year until Ty Detmer is head coach at BYU.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 10:02 p.m.

    Reading the comments is fun. I think that one item that is significant in this rivalry is stadium size and crowd attendance. TV market share when on the Telly is also important.

    In my humble opinion, money is what backs or drives college sports. The Utes seem to have a problem drawing fans to their stadium. Somewhere along the line, direct fan attendance and support is important. If Utah is to survive in the PAC 12 fan support is necessary. Should a down-size take place I am of the opinion Colorado and Utah would be dropped quickly due to cost benefit factors.

    The "Y" is an OK team and shows flashes of brilliance and is the team most likely to be chosen to play in the homecoming game. We (I'm BYU '68) will never recruit the players in sufficient numbers to establish the team as a consistent top twenty team.

    Utah was an after thought and filled out the PAC 10 to 12 dance card. I hope they do well but they too will lack the players in sufficient numbers to do more that knock off a good team now and then.

    And the beat goes on....

  • CougOrUte..Naah Nibley, UT
    July 27, 2014 9:20 p.m.

    From an outsider,(An Aggie Fan) most of the comments made on this subject are really quite humorous. I have lived in Utah for 50+ years and whether Ute and Cougar fans like it or not, the 2 programs are joined at the hips. Although Utah has won the last 4 meetings, the two programs really are playing at the same level. Had Utah and BYU switched schedules last year, I submit to you that Utah would have ended up with the same record and BYU did, and BYU with the same record as Utah had. The main difference is that Utah would have beaten a very poor Virginia team...ouch. For now and for years to come successes of these two programs will be measured against one another, whether they play or not. Utah fans will always throw the SOS excuse in BYU's face and BYU fans will always throw the "No Bowl For U" in Utah's face. Change the argument guys, or realize your tied together....forever. Your not only brothers....but twins.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 27, 2014 8:06 p.m.

    RE: TomahawkRed

    "You mean the only P5 conference that doesn't play a title game? Okay, you beat one disputed (and mediocre) runner-up in the P5."

    Middle Tennessee (who we also beat), runner up in the C-USA and Utah State (who we also beat), winner of MWC."
    I believe he meant P5 runners up. Not mid majors.

    "We also played Wisconsin (3rd in B10), Notre Dame (top independent), Boise State (3rd in MWC)."
    Irrelevant. He said conference champ or runner-up. 3rd in the MWC impresses NO ONE."

    ...

    Your just-barely-invited to-the-big-boy-table bias is showing. The Big 12 was a really solid conference until a couple months ago when the Utah media started speculation about a possible invite to BYU. The winner of the MWC was pretty impressive four years ago when Utah was in that conference. And saying that beating Boise State "impresses NO ONE" carries little weight considering Utah is 0-3 against them (all recent losses).

    I never claimed BYU had an outstanding season last season, but to make it sound like they played a horrible schedule when their SOS would rank #2 all-time for Utah seems a little silly.

  • greatbam22 andrews afb, MD
    July 27, 2014 6:50 p.m.

    It is interesting how much time / energy / money is wasted on destructive / prideful comments vs trying to help the other programs do better.

    Imagine if both fan bases instead used their time / energy to support both fan bases instead.

    I will admit I allowed myself to be dragged into it a few times when I lived out in Idaho but thankfully I live on the east coast and don't have to think about it that much.

  • DuckInSLC Sandy, UT
    July 27, 2014 4:58 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red:
    Continued...

    As for your "begging question" I answered that in my post. Because it's NOT fanbases and athletic departments but ADMINISTRATORS who determine membership, BYU was not invited. In this regard I do agree that it was because these administrators care about research status. BYU is not an AAU or tier 1 research school so that kept them out (administrators care about this, not fans and athletic depts). I completely agree with Two For Flinching's assessment of research status and inclusion in the conference.

  • DuckInSLC Sandy, UT
    July 27, 2014 4:53 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red:
    I can certainly see where my response to Chris B could have been unclear. Thank you for calling me on it so I could see that.

    The issue I have with your points is that my statements were about my opinion. I never said "we" while referring to the PAC12 as he did. I would have liked to see BYU included. I know many others (at least in the Eugene Oregon area) that wouldn't mind seeing BYU in the conference. That's my opinion and the opinions of some other Duck fans that I know.

    As for my suggestion that people might be deluding themselves if they thought athletic departments or other PAC12 fans wouldn't want BYU you've used a Strawman. I never said that all fans and athletic depts "most certainly would be ok" with BYU. I said that someone who blankety believes that fans or athletic depts in the PAC12 "wouldn't be ok" with BYU is probably deluding themselves considering the BYU fanbase in this footprint and the indisputable fact that many programs have games scheduled with BYU in the near future. See the difference?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 27, 2014 4:27 p.m.

    Scores,

    byu could have more wins than one of the playoff teams. Enjoy your beach bowl legacy.

  • DrUte Woods Cross, UT
    July 27, 2014 4:14 p.m.

    Wondering how the readership might react to this/these thoughts:

    1. Now that Utah is PAC12 & BYU is indy, seems like the two schools have little in common other than geography. BYU has its religious affiliation, fine, its religious rules, fine, while Utah is a state secular school. Fine.

    2. Utah's PAC12 membership requires a certain mandatory number of PAC12 games per year, leaving two or three open time slots. In addition, I'm strongly suspicious that PAC12 membership contractually requires some of those slots to go to P5 schools (like Michigan) so that PAC12 can compare results, a marketing exercise.

    3. However, since BYU is independent, it does not appear that those 9 "guaranteed" games that would normally come with conference membership are available. As a result, BYU scrambles for meaningful games during the body of the season. As a result of that scramble their SOS may never be very favorable since some of the P5 conferences have declined to acknowledge BYU as a P5 adversary and P5 schools have ~75% of their schedules locked in with their conference games.

    --- Wondering how BYU will become attractive to a conference given this scheduling challenge.

    Not throwing stones, just sayn'.

    --- An interesting conundrum.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 4:06 p.m.

    worf
    Mcallen, TX

    "Time for the utes to stand on it's own two feet."

    Care to explain this comment, worf? Without some context, it makes no sense. Go ahead...give it a try.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 27, 2014 1:49 p.m.

    RE: Bluto

    "BYU would rank 5th or 6th Academically in the Pac. Utah brings up the rear"

    Sorry, 2ForFlinching is right on this one. BYU is not a research university in the top tier (like all the Pac12 schools are). While BYU has higher academic standards and most of their undergraduate programs are more selective and rigorous than Utah's, the PAC12 doesn't care about undergraduate quality because that's not what brings in the big bucks. Graduate research programs pay the bills and Utah is quite competitive in that arena.

    If you're trying to make the "we didn't get into the PAC12 because of religious bias" card the only valid argument I've ever seen is that the PAC12 was willing to let in programs like Oklahoma State, which isn't an upper tier research institution either. But even that is nebulous at best because no official invite ever went out to those schools.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 1:46 p.m.

    Bluto
    Sandy, UT
    "Until Utah's Mid Major Football program produces.........

    Only after the Doormat Utes can match BYU's aforementioned accomplishments, then and only then, can the Red Tailed Chicken Hawks even begin to be compared to BYU."

    Really? If your assertion had any merit whatsoever, why is byu trying so hard to get what Utah has?

    "BYU has Tradition, a National Brand and an actual Legacy. (ASK the suits at ESPN)."

    byu has a ring through its nose and ESPN is holding the rope. If that's your idea of a reward for brand and legacy, mission accomplished. On the other hand, you might look no further than the Pac-12, Big12, SEC, and ACC for an accurate assessment of byu's "brand and legacy."

    Bluto
    Sandy, UT

    @TwoFur

    "You said BYU wouldn't qualify academically in the Pac?
    Hilarious!...BYU would rank 5th or 6th Academically in the Pac."

    Nope. You want to use USNWR rankings? Fine. byu's paper thin portfolio of graduate and PhD programs is outclassed by USU. Yep...USU!

    Now, look at the World Universities Ranking...byu doesn't even register. Difference criteria, son.

    Best not even bring research into the conversation.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 27, 2014 1:26 p.m.

    RE: Bluto

    "BYU would rank 5th or 6th Academically in the Pac. Utah brings up the rear"

    Sorry, 2ForFlinching is right on this one. BYU is not a research university in the top tier (like all the Pac12 schools are). While BYU has higher academic standards and most of their undergraduate programs are more selective and rigorous than Utah's, the PAC12 doesn't care about undergraduate quality because that's not what brings in the big bucks. Graduate research programs pay the bills and Utah is quite competitive in that arena.

    If you're trying to make the "we didn't get into the PAC12 because of religious bias" card the only valid argument I've ever seen is that the PAC12 was willing to let in programs like Oklahoma State, which isn't an upper tier research institution either. But even that is nebulous at best because no official invite ever went out to those schools.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 27, 2014 1:22 p.m.

    Time for the utes to stand on it's own two feet.

    Adios!

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 1:08 p.m.

    Bluto,

    Utah - Pac 12
    BYU - Mid major

    That's all that needs to be typed.

    LOL

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 1:07 p.m.

    Bluto
    Sandy, UT

    -7 College Hall of Famers
    -16 Consensus All-Americans
    -A Heisman Trophy winner
    -2 Outland Trophy winners
    -7 Sammy Baugh Trophy winners
    -A Maxwell Trophy winner
    -A Legendary Hall of Fame Coach (who transformed College Football).
    -A Doak Walker Trophy winner
    -4 Davey O'Brian Trophy winners
    (21 National Award Winners in all)....
    -A Super Bowl MVP
    -2 NFL MVP's
    -A Unanimous National Championship
    -23 Conference Championships

    ----------

    Yale also dominated college football 100 years ago, and nobody is asking for their inclusion.

    Every single one of those accolades you mentioned happened over three decades ago. BYU hasn't done a thing in the last 25 years. It's a dinosaur.

    If the present day was 1992, you would have an excellent case for inclusion. Too bad for you it's 2014 and the Cougars haven't accomplished a thing since.

    Live in the past if you want (which you clearly do). There ain't nothing to brag about BYU football now.

    LOL!!!

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 1:02 p.m.

    Wiscougarfan
    River Falls, WI

    "Wrong. We played (and beat) Texas, runner up in the B12;"

    You mean the only P5 conference that doesn't play a title game? Okay, you beat one disputed (and mediocre) runner-up in the P5.

    "Middle Tennessee (who we also beat), runner up in the C-USA and Utah State (who we also beat), winner of MWC."

    I believe he meant P5 runners up. Not mid majors.

    "We also played Wisconsin (3rd in B10), Notre Dame (top independent), Boise State (3rd in MWC)."

    Irrelevant. He said conference champ or runner-up. 3rd in the MWC impresses NO ONE.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 12:58 p.m.

    Lambo
    Clearfield, UT

    Utah was preaching against the BCS system, now you are preaching for exclusion and belittling teams that are in the same boat you were just barely in.

    ----------

    I don't think that's true.

    I don't think any Utah fan would have any problem if BSU was invited to the Big 12 tomorrow. They have certainly earned it.

    The problem you'll have with Utah fans is when fans of a team who we believe hasn't earned P5 inclusion regularly wail and moan about not getting a P5 invite, something they believe they're entitled to. We basically don't like BYU fans saying, "we deserve the exact same thing Utah has, even though we didn't even come close to accomplishing what they did in the BCS era."

    If BYU had duplicated even ONE of Utah's BCS seasons I think most Utah fans would agree that BYU deserves to get in somewhere.

    But you didn't, so we don't.

    Blame your AD... your head coach... your players. Not us.

  • chicagoborn Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 12:54 p.m.

    @Bluto
    Since you like bringing up the US News rankings so much why don't you look at grad school rankings for anything other than business? In STEM, Utah outclasses BYU in the rankings and it ain't even close. Utah is closer to it's PAC 12 colleagues than BYU is to Utah when it comes to science, math, and engineering.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 12:51 p.m.

    kyboy
    West Valley City, UT
    Home game average attendance 2013: BYU=61,225. Utah=45,194. Yeah, pretty equal. BYU currently ranks 28th in the country. Good enough for 3rd in the Big 12 and 5th in the PAC12.

    ---------

    LSU, Alabama and Notre Dame all average FAR MORE fans per game than BYU does... at roughly 100,000 fans per game each.

    They blow BYU out of the water, and it ain't even close. That's a REAL draw. That's a REAL legacy program. That's a REAL national brand.

    BYU doesn't even come close to qualifying as a real brand in CFB.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 12:47 p.m.

    DuckInSLC
    Sandy, UT

    So any Utah fan like this guy who believes PAC12 fans and athletic depts wouldn't be ok with BYU being included are probably deluding themselves.

    -------

    You have a couple problems here.

    1) You slam Chris B for speaking for the Pac 12 (when he, as the Pac 12 said BYU may have been invited if they duplicated Utah's success)

    2) You then speak, as a Pac 12 fan, and say you would have liked to see BYU invited (which was not entirely at odds with what Chris B said)

    3) You then, contradict yourself, and presume to speak for Pac 12 fans and athletic departments (because you've been in the P12 longer) by saying they most certainly would be okay with BYU in the conference (despite that begging the question, if so many in the conference wanted BYU... why did they not get an invite?)

    I like you DuckinSLC. But I had to call you out on the hypocrisy.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 12:39 p.m.

    Striker
    Omaha, NE

    Wrong. The comments of Utah fans on sports articles referring to BYU or not is keeping BYU extremely relevant.

    ----------

    Depends on what you mean.

    The comments are making BYU relevant to Utah fans? Yes.

    The comments are making BYU relevant in national CFB? LOL!

    If the latter is what you (and many other Y fans seem to) claim, so you're saying whether or not BYU is relevant in this game depends on... Utah fans?

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 12:30 p.m.

    Uteology
    East Salt Lake City, Utah

    Just don't tell Bluto he'll have aneurysm. In his head, BYU is a legacy program, with a national... correction, world-wide brand.

    --------

    LOL!

    That's right.

    He would slot BYU in category 1 with Alabama and LSU.

    LOL (again)

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 27, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    FatMan86
    West Jordan, UT
    Both schools are similarly connected in that neither is relevant any more because neither is consistently beating quality opponents.

    Outside of the Beehive state, Utah is regarded as a Big 5 doormat, and BYU is an unwanted outsider. This would change if each program would start winning again....against quality competition.

    -----------

    As unfortunate as it is, I have to agree with this.

    Spot on, I think.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 11:53 a.m.

    @ Scores

    That's a safe bet. Simple W/L record is not exclusively what determines the better team in college football, due to the huge disparity in schedules.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 11:49 a.m.

    @ Bluto

    ARWU:

    Utah - 81 (in the WORLD)

    BYU - 300+

    Times higher education:

    Utah 143 (in the world)

    BYU - Not even in the top 400

    There is more to a University than it's undergraduate programs. In this case, graduate and Ph.D programs, and the resulting research is a huge factor. Judging by the fact the Utah was invited while BYU wasn't even considered it's obvious that I'm right.

  • UteinIdaho Sandpoint, ID
    July 27, 2014 11:34 a.m.

    For some reason I wasted ten minutes of my time reading comments. Its the same silly garbage over and over again. Half of the coug fans on here go on and on touting all of their accomplishments from 30 years ago, so they clearly are P5 worthy. And then my ultimate favorite...all the coug fans who go on and on about how dumb and obsessed Ute fans are for commenting on anything BYU. My goodness, the hypocrisy. So silly.

    And...I will be getting an email within a few hours telling me that the D News has rejected my comment, just like every other common sense comment I make on here.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    July 27, 2014 10:56 a.m.

    Scores "I'll bet BYU wins more games this year than Utah does."

    Now there's a safe bet. They'd better with the likes of Middle Tennessee and Savannah State while ESPN this week reported Utah with the most difficult schedule in the country.

    BYU had an outstanding run during the 17 year or so run with the great Lavell Edwards. As the years pass on that era is looking more and more like an aberration. BYU's record against top rated teams is not good at all. No undefeated seasons since the one during the Lavell era thirty years ago, no BCS Bowl invites and accordingly no BCS Bowl wins. And... Getting hammered by your "rival" year in and year out for the last dozen years.

  • Scores Idaho Falls, ID
    July 27, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    I'll bet BYU wins more games this year than Utah does.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 27, 2014 9:03 a.m.

    @TwoFur

    You said BYU wouldn't qualify academically in the Pac?
    Hilarious!

    Wrong again...

    BYU would rank 5th or 6th Academically in the Pac.
    Utah brings up the rear.

    USNWR rankings

    BYU #62

    Utah #121

    Basic math got you stumped?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 27, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    Until Utah's Mid Major Football program produces.........

    -7 College Hall of Famers
    -16 Consensus All-Americans
    -A Heisman Trophy winner
    -2 Outland Trophy winners
    -7 Sammy Baugh Trophy winners
    -A Maxwell Trophy winner
    -A Legendary Hall of Fame Coach (who transformed College Football).
    -A Doak Walker Trophy winner
    -4 Davey O'Brian Trophy winners
    (21 National Award Winners in all)....
    -A Super Bowl MVP
    -2 NFL MVP's
    -A Unanimous National Championship
    -23 Conference Championships
    -A Big Time College Football Stadium and the fans to fill it... (min. 60k+ seats).
    -Dominates the TV ratings in their own market.
    -Has a National fan base which reaches beyond SL County.
    -Plays every game on National TV.

    ....they will Eternally be looking up at BYU's Generational Legacy.

    Only after the Doormat Utes can match BYU's aforementioned accomplishments, then and only then, can the Red Tailed Chicken Hawks even begin to be compared to BYU.

    BYU has Tradition, a National Brand and an actual Legacy. (ASK the suits at ESPN).
    Posing Wannabees ....Do Not!

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    July 27, 2014 8:27 a.m.

    We are big boys in a big boy confrence now even though we don't win very much.

    Go Utes!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 27, 2014 7:46 a.m.

    Re: ekute

    "Yeah, It's like the wife(byu) clinging to her husband's(Utah) ankle pleading "don't leave me"."

    I agree with your statement, disagree with the teams you slotted in. Judging by fan comments on these discussion boards it's Utah that simply can't let go. "Independent" is a lot like "divorced."

    Re: Uncle Rico

    "BYU was 2-5 vs power conference teams last year, and they didn't even play a conference champion or runner up."

    Wrong. We played (and beat) Texas, runner up in the B12; Middle Tennessee (who we also beat), runner up in the C-USA; and Utah State (who we also beat), winner of MWC. We also played Wisconsin (3rd in B10), Notre Dame (top independent), Boise State (3rd in MWC).

  • fowersjl Farmington, Utah
    July 27, 2014 7:11 a.m.

    Thank goodness not for eternity. Haven't heard or read any mention of football in heaven. Whew!

  • CougOrUte..Naah Nibley, UT
    July 27, 2014 6:33 a.m.

    Nice article Rock, and spot on.

  • Lambo Clearfield, UT
    July 27, 2014 6:29 a.m.

    Chris B

    Utah did deserve a "promotion" for their performance over the last few years' but so did Boise State who had an even better record and went to BCS games and has beaten UTah consistently over years. Utah was the poster child for equality, inclusivity judgement based on performance rather than discrimination based on conference. Utah was preaching against the BCS system, now you are preaching for exclusion and belittling teams that are in the same boat you were just barely in. The comments demeaning several quality teams as not in the same league as UofU is a bit out of touch with reality. Utah has a small separation from BYU lately, but it still has come down to the wire in all but two games since 2005. Like a workout partner that can currently bench press a max of 10 pounds more, that 10 pound advantage does not warrant not warrant hyperbolic and grandiose statements of superiority. Maybe moderate the superiority talk as the gap truly is not as big as you are perceive it to be. Also, when one "moves on" he is apatheic, people who post comments generally are not apathetic.

  • nananana batman saint george, UT
    July 27, 2014 5:18 a.m.

    all of these comments, are exactly what the article described. so lets continue with what Rock told us to do and talk trash on medicore accompolishments for our team....because its still better than your team.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 27, 2014 1:32 a.m.

    @ wazzup

    Many of the PAC-12 schools had, or currently have, an active LDS member as the president of their school. Trying to play the victim just makes you look jealous and bitter. The fact is that BYU doesn't qualify academically. BYU's candidacy basically ended right there, and religion has nothing to do with it.

  • spokaloo White Salmon, WA
    July 27, 2014 12:48 a.m.

    The comments on this message board are making his point for him.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    July 26, 2014 11:40 p.m.

    Brad Rock and or the Des News sure came with the headline to garner hits. Married for eternity? Now that is sweet.

  • kyboy West Valley City, UT
    July 26, 2014 11:36 p.m.

    Home game average attendance 2013: BYU=61,225. Utah=45,194. Yeah, pretty equal. BYU currently ranks 28th in the country. Good enough for 3rd in the Big 12 and 5th in the PAC12.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 26, 2014 10:55 p.m.

    The consensus on these boards is that only non-member byu "fans" can speak for the PAC 12.

    Guess what, that's just ONE of the reasons why byu doesn't fit in, anywhere.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    July 26, 2014 10:41 p.m.

    Re: Eddie

    no one in the PAC whatever or Nationally will ever take the u seriously!

    What about Stanford?

    When was the last time BYU beat a power conference team that won the conference?

    At least the Utes have the guts to schedule teams. BYU lost to Utah and Virginia last year, but beat a bunch of patsies and so they made a bowl game. BYU was 2-5 vs power conference teams last year, and they didn't even play a conference champion or runner up.

    Utah plays 10 power conference teams this year, College Gameday said Utah has the toughest schedule in the country in 2014.

    BYU plays 3 power conference teams: Cal, Virginia (both were worst in conferences last year and didn't win a conference game), and Texas (a team who just suspended its 6 player this offseason).

    Utes play the big boys, BYU is the team that is scared.

  • wazzup Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 26, 2014 10:32 p.m.

    Can we just call it what it is...........the ONLY reason Utah went to the Pac10 instead of BYU is BYU's religious affiliation. Everyone knows it! Athletic directors of the Pac10 love BYU. It's the presidents and their faculty. So be it. But to claim otherwise is nonsense.

  • DuckInSLC Sandy, UT
    July 26, 2014 8:59 p.m.

    Chris B: "Who knows, maybe we(the Pac 12) would have even invited you."

    Now here's an example of a fan who truly thinks he speaks for the PAC12. Obviously he only speaks for himself. As a PAC12 fan I would love having both BYU and Utah in the conference, and I know many others who feel the same way. Unfortunately college football doesn't listen to fans or even athletic departments (or does this guy also think PAC12 schools have accidentally scheduled so many games with BYU). Unfortunately administrators have the final say on who's included.

    I was very supportive of Utah being invited when they were, but don't confuse that with not wanting BYU to be included also. In fact there are probably more BYU fans in the PAC12 footprint than Utah fans (actually that's a fact, nothing probable about it). So any Utah fan like this guy who believes PAC12 fans and athletic depts wouldn't be ok with BYU being included are probably deluding themselves.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    July 26, 2014 8:24 p.m.

    They have moved on but can not leave it alone. This is why no one in the PAC whatever or
    Nationally will ever take the u seriously! Isn't that like when u are young, u play with baby toys and then u grow up, (according to them) then when they get with their friends, they try to act like the big boys, but keep reverting back to playing with the baby toys again?

    If u have really grown up and are a big boy, then stop playing with rattles and dolls and go on the big boys sites and talk tough.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 26, 2014 8:16 p.m.

    Yeah, It's like the wife(byu) clinging to her husband's(Utah) ankle pleading "don't leave me".

    It's funny how the byu "fans" celebrate getting creamed by a mediocre Huskies team that had a depleted staff including an interim head coach.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    July 26, 2014 7:54 p.m.

    Just say it man,
    "The Utah media is doing whatever it can to keep BYU relevant."

    Wrong. The comments of Utah fans on sports articles referring to BYU or not is keeping BYU extremely relevant. If BYU was not relevant, Utah fans would never comment on their articles. The fact fans like you consistently comment mean this marriage is still alive and well. Anytime you refer to BYU in any post, you are still holding hands with BYU in this "marriage." You mentioned BYU four times in one post. That is holding on to BYU's "coat tails", as you put it.

  • Mark321 Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:57 p.m.

    @ Hey Baby

    "I quit reading in the second paragraph...

    Who is more successful? (BYU, lately).... We've beaten the 4 straight? How are they more successful? Their goofy fans read this and start to repeat it..."

    Read the article again. It says Utah has the advantage on the rivalry (lately). BYU is more successful (lately) because they are playing bowl games. The only bowl games Utah plays in is chip and dip bowl at my house for bowl season.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:55 p.m.

    @Chris B

    If utah has divorced BYU and doesn't care about them at all, how come you post on BYU articles all the time?

    And how come there are plenty of ute fans who do the same?

    Your statement that you have divorced BYU is hilarious and false.

    Also, does anyone else think it's interesting that BYU and Boise State are the 2 non-P5's in the list and 23 P5's couldn't even make the list?

    ute fans, the ACC, the SEC, etc. say that BYU is not a P5 level program.

    As I've said many times before, all of that is political. The P5 is trying to separate themselves from the non-P5, so naturally they won't include a non-P5 team in their scheduling rules no matter how good they are. I know Notre Dame is technically not in the P5, but they are essentially a half-ACC member and have always had a seat at the BCS/Playoff table.

    It shocks me that so many ute fans still can't understand this concept. It's all political, and has nothing to do with BYU's ability.

  • taylormade1 Springville, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:50 p.m.

    Chris B , you are quite the jokester ! College national champs , heisman trophy winner , outland trophy winner , Davey obrien winner etc...... Much less a national player of the year award ! Be honest now , which program is really the most storied and relevant ! No wonder you are always so pissed off at the Brigham young cougars in all your comments ! We really do appreciate you following our cougars more than most byu fans do !

  • Hey Baby Franklin, IN
    July 26, 2014 6:43 p.m.

    Black Diamond...

    National Chumps...1984...disputed....gas was $1.01 per gallon
    Heisman...1990...legit...gas was $1.16

    24 years ago...

  • IQ92 hi, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:34 p.m.

    To paraphrase "White Men Can't Jump":
    Sometimes when you win, you really lose;
    Sometimes when you lose, you really win.
    Sometimes when you win or lose, you really tie.

    Looks to me those most anxiuos about BYU/UofU athletics are: (in order) 1. local sports writers, 2. Utah fans, and 3. BYU fans.

  • stevan madrigal murray, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:32 p.m.

    RE: Striker
    "The campus is our World".

  • BlackDiamond Provo, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:23 p.m.

    Chris B
    Laughing at 2 Undefeated seasons. But do you have a banner that says "National Champs" or Heisman Winner or Superbowl MVP? Please do enjoy the Pac 10 + 2.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:21 p.m.

    The Utah media is doing whatever it can to keep BYU relevant. With BYU fading fast into college football purgatory, BYU and its media are trying to hang on tight to Utah's P5 coat tails.

    Eventually though, when the real football conferences do break away, BYU's descent into irrelevancy will be complete.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:20 p.m.

    "Utah and BYU are still considered in the same class."
    This is why I get a laugh out of Cougar fans calling the Utes a doormat. If BYU is called to the P5 level, doormat is their fate.

    The vanity of "we belong" blinds them to cost of being included. Losing records? Less television exposure? They'd take it all just to be able to say "They included us!"

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    July 26, 2014 6:17 p.m.

    BYU ignored when the same thing happened to Jamal Williams a few months ago.
    I would imagine Utah will talk with Wilson, but no punishment.

  • Hey Baby Franklin, IN
    July 26, 2014 5:35 p.m.

    I quit reading in the second paragraph...

    Who is more successful? (BYU, lately).... We've beaten the 4 straight? How are they more successful? Their goofy fans read this and start to repeat it...

    Please explain? Loosing to Virginia (last in a basketball conference and beating a Texas team that had declined so bad that they fired their dear head coach)?

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    July 26, 2014 5:30 p.m.

    "married for eternity"

    Sometimes divorce is a good option!

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    July 26, 2014 5:24 p.m.

    This title makes me cringe. I would never want to be married to anything "Utah". The only red I own is part of a Nebraska shirt that is all black with some red on the sides. I cannot get myself to see anything red in my wardrobe, while Ute fans are stuck with blue jeans and can never not have blue in their wardrobe. If you supposedly think this is an eternal unit, are the two teams going through a 3 year divorce right now then?

    Nasty or not, it's horrible the rivalry is taking a break. Same with Texas - Texas A&M. The unkindness is part of a rivalry and I don't envy teams like Nebraska who have no true rival. Like each other or not, both sides like to play each other and see how the other does. We cringe when the other is doing well and love it when they fall.

    In our lifetime, NOTHING was as awesome as seeing BYU totally crush Utah year after year after year, something current Ute fans have seen only occasionally since 2000 started. The ups and downs and table-turning is what makes it so fun.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 26, 2014 5:17 p.m.

    In the fourth division were, naturally, Utah and BYU, as inseparable as peanut butter and jelly. Also in the fourth cluster were Boise State, Louisville, Missouri, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech and West Virginia.

    -----------

    Sounds about right.

    Just don't tell Bluto he'll have aneurysm. In his head, BYU is a legacy program, with a national... correction, world-wide brand.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    July 26, 2014 4:54 p.m.

    It should be obvious by now that life in the NCAA isn't fair. Those who are demanding that it be fair are destined to lead lives of quiet desperation. The four team playoff system will proven to be unfair, but at least it will make sense for Utah and BYU to play against each other on a regular basis. Unfortunately, playing Utah State will not make as much sense anymore - and that's really unfair and unfortunate.

  • Riley Mendenhall Provo, UT
    July 26, 2014 4:44 p.m.

    The Utes definitely wear the pants in this relationship.

  • umanami Draper, UT
    July 26, 2014 4:40 p.m.

    Hey Rock, Nice try. Reaching, reaching, missed! You wish.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 26, 2014 4:37 p.m.

    Army has a great football tradition too.

    I wonder why the big boy conferences don't want them either?

  • FatMan86 West Jordan, UT
    July 26, 2014 4:32 p.m.

    Both schools are similarly connected in that neither is relevant any more because neither is consistently beating quality opponents.

    Outside of the Beehive state, Utah is regarded as a Big 5 doormat, and BYU is an unwanted outsider. This would change if each program would start winning again....against quality competition. Because neither is doing that, both fan bases have to make noise about silly things like membership (or not) and ESPN media exposure.

    Despite not being in the same conference, I do t see much of a difference as long as the quality wins aren't there.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 26, 2014 4:26 p.m.

    Rock,

    No, we divorced them. Our choice not theirs. We got a much better offer than staying with byU. byu has not done what is necessary the last decade while conferences have been shifting to warrant an invite. We did.

    The moment the Pac 12 called - our relationship with byu was forever terminated. Sure, we're still neighbors geographically. But so are Tennessee and Middle Tennesse state, one of byu's new rivals.

    The power conferences are gaining more power and money and frankly we don't care if that hurts the mid majors. This is a business, and we wont apologize for moving ahead of byu or usu or Wyoming or the other mid majors.

    Every school is where they should be with what they have done in terms of academics and football success.

    If byu had 2 undefeated seasons, 2 BCS bowl wins including a huge beatdown over Alambama in the past decade, byu would be in a power conference.

    Who knows, maybe we(the Pac 12) would have even invited you.

    But they didn't.

    So they're not.

    And the door has closed.

    Goodbye byu. You and usu will always have each others as mid majors friends