Comments about ‘Letter: Society values’

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Published: Tuesday, July 22 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Salt Lake City, UT

"Civil rights are at the front regardless of rationality. "

Okay, so what civil rights would the writer find irrational? What provisions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act are irrational? What parts of the Voting Rights Act are irrational?

Was emancipation irrational? We have had a long bloody struggle to attain some degree of equal rights. Let's not mess things up now.

Burke, VA

"Washington laid the foundation for a great nation. What are we doing to or for it?"

That last line is the most significant line of this letter. Washington laid the foundation, realizing that most of the building was yet to come. In the process we had to live many decades with part of our population relegated to second class citizenship. Slave were, well, slaves and as such, only counted as part of a full human being on things such as the census. Women were denied the right to vote in the nation that proclaimed itself as the land of the free. And religious rights were denied to many including my ancestors who made their way to the west, beyond the borders of this nation, so they could practice the religion of their choice.

Many things have changes in the two centuries since Washington lived and, yes, civil rights granted to all has made a difference in our lives. The troubling issues surrounding civil rights have more to do with those who would deny them than with those who would demand that they exist for all citizens. And so, yes indeed, what are we doing for that?

seattle, WA

A pathetic attempt to link expansion of civil rights for all people to moral degradation. And this dog whistle to opponents of the growing movement of people in Utah, and indeed in the entire country to legalize same sex marriage is ridiculously disguised.

Just say it. You just don't like same sex marriage, and you are proud of your prejudice.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

The correct quote is:
“The character of a nation is determined by how we treat the least of God's children.”

It's a key component of Social Justice.

Murray, UT

"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than thsoe which spring from any other cause."

-George Washington, 1792

There You Go Again
Saint George, UT

The tone of this letter is reminiscent of letters written when laws banning interracial marriage were over turned by the SCOTUS.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

"George Washington stated that this country's success depends on the use of religious and moral principles. "

As a slave owner and the wealthiest American President, he understood justification by religion to treat other men and women poorly or as property, He may have fought so hard because he had so much to loose.
Although I'd thank him for what he accomplished, to grant him this sainthood is misdirected.

"Civil rights are at the front regardless of rationality."

Correction Because of Rationality.

"The laws of nature are considered obsolete."

Which Natural Laws?

"Norms, even though they have been proven best, are set aside because civil rights are easier to live by and are now accepted by society."

Oh the dread. civil rights accepted by society.

Good character has to be nurtured. It is not a free gift. Desires, good and bad, come with the individual. Growing up is part of character development. What one does with the unusual or unnatural desires is the challenge of that individual.

So Gays should just grow out of it, and can't have good character?

Your winning me over, with reasoning like that?

Salt Lake City, UT

Just another letter printed by the DN that misquotes a famous person. Let's not forget that Washington as great a man as he was also owned slaves and fathered children with some of those slaves. Was that moral? Who knows but I think by todays standards we would see that as immoral. Please lets make sue we are correct in our quotes like LDS Liberal has pointed out.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

I remember when my elders said it was "unnatural" for blacks and whites to mix, not to mention get married.

Cleveland , OH

"Do unto others as you would have others do to you" may be one of the most universal concepts, it is found in teachings and religious systems from around the world. Treating others as humans, with dignity and kindness, is one of the deepest foundation blocks of civilized society.

Conservative religion seems to interpret that simple maxim as: Do unto others who are the same color, race, ethnicity, religion, creed, class, and political party as you would want to be treated. If they aren't part of your insular tribe then they don't deserve to be treated well." Often, at that point they either quote scripture or an out of context statement by Washington or Jefferson or Madison to justify their position.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

The lack of morality in politics and Wall Street is far more detrimental to our society than gay marriage.

If two homosexuals decide to get married? It has a near zero effect on our job opportunities and retirement.

However, when corrupt activist judges decide that bribery is a form of free speech?
Or when corporations are ruled to be people?
Or when the President deregulates Wall Street?
Or when we give tax break handouts to corporations and subsidize dirty oil?
Or when the President decides to bail out banks who became too big to fail?
Or when we're lied to so the Vice President can start a war in Iraq and give handouts to Haliburton?
Or when Wall Street eats away my retirement because, "Greed is Good"?
Or when 2 AGs put a for sale sign in their office?

Those examples of the deterioration of morality have direct and very real effects on our job opportunities and retirement.

Gay marriage won't ruin this country. The greed, bribery as "free speech", and failed "Reaganomics" certainly will.

Springville, UT

You say, "Civil rights are at the front regardless of rationality." What are you trying to say? Why don't you9 come out and say what you really mean instead of hiding behind vague principles?

I offer this: I think we are actually better off than we were 30, 50, 75 or 100 years ago in many ways. I think in many ways we are a better people. Conservativism is the enemy of progress, and had our nation stuck with conservative principles, we would be a third world nation, if even a nation at all.

Eagle Mountain, UT

Each generation always lements the lack of morality the coming generation, usually with regards to its attitudes toward sex.

Each generation always views the previous generation with a lack of morality, usually with how they treated people different from them.

Our ideas and attitudes change with each generation; the thing we must do is act and treat each other the best we can with the information we have.

We have made great strides in treating men equally (removing slavery, equal rights of suffrage, removing established racism and now our LGBT brothers and sisters) and I hope we continue in that regard. It is important to remember that we cannot judge the morals of the past with the morals of today, but we must see where we can improve those.

Sex has always been a strong driving force of our humanity, and I don't believe we are more "immoral" we are just more open about it now.

Provo, UT

Good letter. Thanks for the courage to stand up for God's commandments as well as put your name to it unlike the rest of us who hide behind pseudonyms.

The pride cycle continues. We invent our own religions to suit our preferences regardless of what God says. He will humble us as a nation.

Atlas Smashed
Santa Monica, CA

The sky is falling the sky is falling!

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@Sal – “We invent our own religions to suit our preferences…”

Indeed we do Sal… thanks for reminding us of the anthropological truism.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

- George Washington

Provo, UT

It used to be considered immoral to shut down the government and to refuse to work with the President.

But now anything goes!

Now, one political party can dedicate its entire purpose to making the President an one-term President.

To heck with our country!

It used to be immoral to place party and ideology purity ahead of the well-being of the American people.

But now, that has changed.

I too, wish we could go back in time. Back to a time when the Republican Party actually worked with others, proposed ideas, and stood up for the country.

Now, all they care about is shutting down the government, giving handouts to those who bribed them, and hurting the middle-class.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Provo, UT


It used to be considered immoral to Shout Down others in Town Hall Civic meetings.
It used to be considered immoral to START Pre-emptive Wars of Offense without being first being attacked.
It used to be considered immoral to throw the sick, needy and elderly out to the wolves.
It used to be considered immoral to constatnly pull Politics into Gospel Doctrine classes.
It used to be considered immoral to walk into shopping centers or State Legislation with semi-automatic assault rilfes.
It used to be considered immoral to Shout Down the President of the united States in the State of th Union Address...

Deep Space 9, Ut

To "LDS Liberal" that isn't social justice. That is called charity. Social Justice involves forcibly taking from one group and giving to another. Tell us, according to LDS theology, who wanted to force you to be good?

To "Stormwalker" actually, that is the liberal religion. Look at Rev. Wright or Al Sharpton. The Conservative religions say come and join, we don't care about your background as long as you want to participate and are willing to add to the group.

To "The Real Maverick" I hate to tell you this, but your rants are unfounded. Oil get the same tax breaks as anybody else, Reaganomics gave us close to 25 years of prosperity. Would you rather have carter economics and a return of the Misery Index? Wall Street is more regulated now because with each "deregulation" comes MORE regulation and scrutiny by the government. You have a sitting President and VP that have lied about nearly everything since taking office and you still support them. You didn't like Bush because he was a Republican, not because of policies or "lies", the proof of that is Obama who continues Bush policies and makes Bush look 100% honest by comparison.

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