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Dick Harmon: BYU, Pac-12 scheduling is an interesting dynamic these days

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  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 28, 2014 6:29 p.m.

    @Lionute
    "I'm also wondering at what point and time in last years game you felt pretty comfortable that BYU was going to win."

    ------------

    Well, for starters, when you're trailing you don't usually feel too comfortable. But even with the injury forcing Jamaal Williams out of the game in the 3rd quarter we were moving the ball and closing the gap, we were still in the game. We closed the game to 13-6, Utah was having problems moving the ball and BYU had started outgaining the utes going into the 4th quarter.

    The point that I felt the game was out of reach was late in the 4th quarter (under 2 mins left) and we were driving in ute territory and had a crucial 3 and 13 and BYU coaches called a pass play to seldom-used, little, short-armed, Eric Thornton. He couldn't make the catch and on 4th down Walker intercepted Hill in the red zone to end the drive. Hine's 103 yd KR for a TD was in the 2nd quarter but at this point would've had the game tied.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 28, 2014 5:32 p.m.

    @noperspective
    "Holmoe's goal, as reported by you, was to get the ACC and SEC to recognize byu as a P5 team. Epic failure"

    ------------

    No, that's not an epic failure, it's a short to medium range goal that hasn't been realized yet.

    An example of an "epic" failure (in other words, a historic failure, one of legendary proportions) is the utes first year in the Pac12 and the way Kyle handled his QB situation leading into their first season.

    They had a chance to come in strike gold right out of the gate. The Pac12 gave the utes the easiest conference schedule, USC and the rest of the South Division was having a down year and they had no Oregon or Stanford to play.

    Kyle prepared his team for that historic first season thinking frail/fragile 165 lb Jordan Wynn at QB backed up by a D-II reject was going to be good enough to win the South Div title and CCG. Then he took it to the next level of epic fail when he did it again for season 2.

    It's been all downhill since then. That's "epic" fail.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 26, 2014 8:49 p.m.

    Nice work Uteology. Somebody just got so very busted about making up his affiliation with a Pac-12 school.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 24, 2014 5:24 p.m.

    @CougarSunDevil
    Phoenix, AZ

    VegasUte & Frozen Fractuals:

    "Noticeably absent from the list of "very high research activity" schools:

    Brigham Young University"

    Also notable was that this list was derived from Wikipedia. Wikipedia, as anyone who does any research knows, is not a credible source. Is this what Utah teaches it's students (as evidenced by the fans/alumni who post and agree with this)? If so, then Utah shouldn't be considered a research institution.

    --------------

    The list derived from Wikipedia is from a valid, respected source:

    The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching

    "Founded by Andrew Carnegie in 1905 and chartered in 1906 by an act of Congress, the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching is an independent policy and research center. Improving teaching and learning has always been Carnegie’s motivation and heritage."

    So what were you saying about Utah alum and our research skills?

    Also, on your post about ASU not being a research institution, the above foundation "very highly" disagrees with your statement. Ironic that as an ASU alum you weren't aware of their "very high" research capabilities.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 24, 2014 4:48 p.m.

    @CougarSunDevil

    That list on Wikipedia has a VALID source: Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education. The time you took to talk smack on Utah research skills you could have spent doing your own research.

    Had you done that you found that list under "Basic Classification", "Very high research activity".

    Had you done that you would have seen that in alphabetical order, Arizona State University is listed first.

    Had you seen that, or attended ASU, you would not have made the following comment:

    "ASU is not a research institution nor a medical school, nor anything of the like. Anyone touting that ALL PAC-12 schools fit some specific mold is only kidding themselves."

    Clear to revise your statement?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 24, 2014 3:56 p.m.

    @ DuckOuttaWater

    Oh yeah, it was insane. You should check out the video. It should be pretty easy to find with your preferred search engine.

    As for the rivalry getting out of hand, BYU fans will blame Urban Meyer in 2004 who put Y shaped urinal cakes in Utah's locker room. Utah fans will either blame Austin Collie in 2007 with his "magic happens" comment or Max Hall when he went on a rant and called Utah's entire team and fan base "classless" in 2009. I agree wholeheartedly that the two year break is much needed.

  • DuckOuttaWater SLC , UT
    July 24, 2014 3:33 p.m.

    CougarSunDevil: "Also notable was that this list was derived from Wikipedia."

    Actually no. You may have derived it from Wikipedia but the actual source is the Carnegie Classification of Institutes of Higher Education. And like it or not, fair or not, conferences and school administrators do look at this list and do care about it when considering who to include. Now I can't say that holds true for the Big 12, but for the other 4 it's definitely a factor, and in the case of the B1G and PAC12 it is a deal breaker (I don't know if it's actually in the by laws or not, maybe someone else knows?).

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    July 24, 2014 12:59 p.m.

    VegasUte:

    Leave it to a Ute fan not to grasp the meaning of "consistently" or "and" (as opposed to "or") when used in a sentence. Might I suggest a course in remedial English?

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 24, 2014 12:25 p.m.

    BigCougar:

    "benefitted from their Pac12 refs throwing the flag on a phantom penalty"

    It still amuses me that not a single byU fan thinks they have ever lost a game to Utah. There is ALWAYS an excuse! Classic!

    If byU was capable of actually beating Utah on the field, their fans wouldn't have to make up so many excuses, and the refs would feel safer leaving the cement bowl.

    Go Utes!!

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    July 24, 2014 11:22 a.m.

    VegasUte & Frozen Fractuals:

    "Noticeably absent from the list of "very high research activity" schools:

    Brigham Young University"

    Also notable was that this list was derived from Wikipedia. Wikipedia, as anyone who does any research knows, is not a credible source. Is this what Utah teaches it's students (as evidenced by the fans/alumni who post and agree with this)? If so, then Utah shouldn't be considered a research institution.

  • Lionute Payson, UT
    July 24, 2014 10:47 a.m.

    @BigCougar,

    BYU played 6 power5 teams last year and went 2-4. Most power conferences play 8 conference games. Play all 6 in a row and then throw two more in. By the way, of the 6 you played Wisconsin finished the highest and would be a 3rd place team in the Big 10. So add two more games, Oregon, UCLA, Stanford, Ohio State, Florida St. Baylor, Michigan St. Where does another win come from? I'm also wondering at what point and time in last years game you felt pretty comfortable that BYU was going to win. I felt pretty certain that Utah would win before halftime.

  • DuckOuttaWater SLC , UT
    July 24, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    WA Alum&Dad: "Oh, and last I looked, UO had no colleges of medicine, engineering or agriculture. In fact, it lags woefully behind OSU in it's current research spending. So what gives, Duck?"

    Unlike 4 members of the PAC12, Oregon has been a distinguished member of the AAU since 1969. That pretty well trumps whatever research stats you want to dig up. AAU is king. Unlike tier 1 research which is the least expected, AAU is a big deal. That's why every single university in the B1G including the recent additions of Rutgers and Maryland, are AAU schools (except Nebraksa which had it's membership discontinued AFTER joining the B1G).

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 24, 2014 8:46 a.m.

    @idablu

    "Wait.... Are you the same guy who ratted out Spencer Hadley right before the Utah/BYU game?
    Seriously, Who am I sir and My Perspective (same guy?)."

    Ratted out Spencer Hadley? Is this from the same fan base that adheres to an "honor code" where it is a violation if you do not report a violation of the "honor code"?

    And I'm certain it is an honor to be suspected of being the same person as "My Perspective" I can assure you I'm not. In fact, although I'm certain I have read some of his posts, from his name I did not know whether he was a fan of Utah or not. I'll be more aware in the future! Thanks for the "heads up"!

    And remember if you see a violation of the honor code you are obligated to report it.

  • DuckOuttaWater SLC , UT
    July 24, 2014 8:40 a.m.

    Two For Flinching: I didn't know BYU fans threw trash after the game. That's disappointing as a member of the LDS faith.

    Maybe this rivalry does need a break. The vitriol I've seen on these boards is jaw-dropping at times. I mean Duck & Beaver fans went at it sometimes, but it really was a "civil" war most of the time. This rivalry seems more personal than I remembered it growing up here.

    Maybe I can ask people, what has changed since the 80s? Why does it seem this rivalry is so hateful now?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 24, 2014 12:12 a.m.

    @ BigCougar

    Confirmation bias, pure and simple. Porter was playing perfect D, hand on the receiver's hip while he turned back to make a play on the ball, which is when Mathews pulled him down.

    Of course I don't see you mentioning the PI on Dres that happened before the ball was tipped, yet was called back after the review. Even the announcers were stunned, and that called force Utah to punt from the 10. You also haven't mentioned BYU's TD late in the fourth were Alisa was clearly stopped before the goal line. And not not forget the fairly ridiculous unsportsmanlike call on McGill after BYU had been stopped late in the fourth. The refs weren't perfect, but suggesting that they somehow cheated to help Utah win is extremely unsportsmanlike and it shows a lack of class. Also, the refs certainly didn't do anything that warranted people throwing trash out of the stands.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 23, 2014 10:09 p.m.

    UoU 1991:

    "It's interesting that when the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger talks were going on, not a peep was heard from the PAC 10 about 'research'. Oklahoma State has the exact same 'high research' classification as BYU, yet the PAC 10 was ready to welcome the Cowboys with open arms."

    There were "peeps" about OSU's substandard academic CV. In fact, in the 11th hour, Larry Scott/the Pac-10 was maneuvering to cut OSU out of the deal. And the only reason why OSU was ever even CONSIDERED was because of the Pac-10's lust for a Texas/OU homerun. The reason why the Y was NEVER considered, was because Utah doesn't have the same clout at Texas. Texas' coattails were long enough to drag Tx Tech and potentially Okla St along. Their coattails sure got Tx Tech and Baylor into the Big 12. Unfortunately, Utah's coattails weren't anywhere near long enough for our little brother down south to ride in on.

    Oh well. The cougars have always preferred playing small ball anyway so no harm, no foul.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 23, 2014 1:58 p.m.

    @Twofer
    "Comparing coaching records is not a fair comparison because many of the programs Bronco beat are not comparable to where they are today"

    -----------

    Then you could easily say the opposite as well, that teams BYU lost to then aren't as good now as they were then. That's football. Things change from year to year and you have no control over what another program does.

    As for Mathews getting interfered with by the ute DB, contact he initiated against the DB was in retaliation and it's pretty easy to see in video replay. But that wasn't the only case of intentional PI that the Pac12 refs "managed" to NOT see.

    Btw, this was the same crew that got reprimanded after drawing national attention for obviously, willfully and intentionally cheating Wisconsin in order to giftwrap the game for ASU earlier in the year. The Pac12 reprimanded them because of how obvious it was, I'm sure they prefer things to not be so noticeable.

    It's clear that the only real advantage that utah has recieved in joining the Pac12 is the ability to use their refs in games. It certainly paid off this past year.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 23, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    DuckyInTulsa:

    Nice of you to admit BYU 'fans' want a steady stream of Harmon's pandering, telling them how the Y is so important to every aspect of college football--even the P5 conferences.

    We'll be up all night trying to figure out why no conference wants the Y.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    July 23, 2014 8:24 a.m.

    VegasUte

    "So, while BYU does research, it is not up to the level of every single member of the PAC 12."

    BYU's research is every bit as highly regarded as any school in the PAC 12, BYU simply doesn't do as much.

    It's interesting that when the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger talks were going on, not a peep was heard from the PAC 10 about "research". Oklahoma State has the exact same "high research" classification as BYU, yet the PAC 10 was ready to welcome the Cowboys with open arms.

  • Unreconstructed Reb Chantilly, VA
    July 23, 2014 3:48 a.m.

    The Tier 1 Research Institution argument as a reason to exclude BYU lost a lot of merit when the Pac 10 invited Okie St and Texas Tech as part of their bid to get Oklahoma and Texas to join back in 2010. Clearly the Pac presidents' sacred purity of top tier academic research can be watered down -- for the right price.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2014 11:40 p.m.

    @ BigCougar

    Don't blame the refs. Mathews clearly pulled down Porter in an (unsportsmanlike) attempt to draw a PI. Also, it wouldn't have mattered anyway if Mathews had made that catch because the cloak was showing 0:00 and the ball landed on the sideline 15 yards away from the end zone.

    If the PAC wanted a beatable team when they expanded they would have taken UNLV, or Weber St. Pretending like Utah brings no value, despite the fact it was picked over every other mid-major out West just makes you look jealous and petty. Also, since joining the PAC, Utah has gone 9-1 in non-confrence games including a bowl win. That raises the conf. profile and makes the PAC-12 look stronger.

    Comparing coaching records is not a fair comparison because many of the programs Bronco beat are not comparable to where they are today. UCLA, Oregon, and Washington are all significantly better than they were when BYU beat them. Also, you're ignoring the impact the week-in, week-out grind has on a football team. If BYU played UCLA, Stanford, Arizona, USC, Arizona St., Oregon, and Washington St. all in a row, the Cougars would win one game, maybe.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 22, 2014 7:56 p.m.

    @MyPerspective

    Yes, we have 19 games over 12 years, which is still more games per year than we have with the Big 12 over that span. Which explains why I want BYU to have a scheduling agreement with the Big 12 over the Pac 12.

    Secondly, I hope you realize that our schedules 12 years from now are very very very far from being complete. I guarantee you we will have a lot more than 19 Pac 12 games over the next 12 years.

    We played 7 games in our first 3 years against Pac 12 teams, compared to just 3 against Big 12 teams in the first 3 years.

    This pace will likely continue. In 2016, we will play Arizona, UCLA, and utah from the Pac 12.

    And only West Virginia from the Big 12.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't like a scheduling agreement with the Pac 12, I'm just saying a Big 12 agreement would be far more beneficial for both our scheduling and our attempt to join a P5 conference.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 22, 2014 7:54 p.m.

    @JD
    "But it is also a team that is beatable,"

    --------------

    Bronco is 9-9 vs the Pac10/12 as the HC at BYU while Whitt is 12-21. Looking at the current trend that Whitt is on, he is likely to finish 1-8 in conference this year. Now I would bet against that but not because anyone expects utah to win much in the Pac12, rather, nobody expects Whitt to last that long or be able to finish out the season.

    Comparing both coaches, Bronco has faired better vs the Pac12 and it's not even close. Using your analysis makes sense if you use that lense to try and understand why the Pac12 invited utah. They obviously saw the utes as a "beatable team" and figured they would help 7 or 8 of their established conference teams reach the necessary 6 wins every year to become bowl eligible and thereby increase Pac12 revenue.

    Kudos utah!!!

    Hooray for the Pac12!!!!

    Goooooo Pac12!!!!

    Win Pac12!!!!!

    Yayyyyyy Pac12!!!

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 22, 2014 7:44 p.m.

    @JD
    "PAC-12 members Washington and Utah easily disposed of BYU"

    ----------------

    Utah won by 7 pts and coincidentally benefitted from their Pac12 refs throwing the flag on a phantom penalty to nullify a 90+ yd TD return by Adam Hine. Utah also needed the help of those same notorious Pac12 refs to conveniently not call a PI late in the game deep in ute territory when the ute DB was beat and grabbed Mitch Mathews and pulled him out of bounds thus preventing him from making the catch and putting BYU in scoring position.

    yes, utah (with the extra help) managed to win the game but when you consider how key that "extra help" was (removing points off the board) and the fact that they were outplayed statistically I fail to see where utah "easily disposed" of the Y. despite all the "extra help" u still had to hang on for dear life.

    Of all the "supposed advantages" claimed in joining the Pac12, the only noticeable one so far has been the ample aid of Pac12 refs. (btw that crew was the same one that gained national infamy when they cheated Wisconsin in the game vs ASU)

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 22, 2014 7:34 p.m.

    @schnee
    "it's just that the PAC prioritizes other things that happen to be BYUs weak point)."

    ----------

    BYU has a different academic mission and with the UofU close by and having a medical school, etc it's likely way back when that BYU and the church saw a niche they could fill in focusing on undergrad programs in an effort to maximize educational opportunities for students in the state of Utah, keeping costs low and not duplicating efforts.

    Setting the rivalry aside for a moment, it's been a great partnership for the most part even with the entire embarrassing UofU cold fusion debacle. BYU is one of the leading undergrad schools in the country and Utah has a nice assortment of graduate programs and a medical school.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 22, 2014 6:57 p.m.

    @Vegasute
    "Don't forget the fact that 3 of those 19 games are against Utah, byU's traditional rival. If you take those games out, that leaves 16 games in 12 years, or 1.33 games per year"

    ----------

    Great post Veg, I see that you're not counting games BYU schedules with utah as "official" Pac12 games, sort of like if we were scheduling with the Pac12's minor league affiliate.

    the rest of the Pac12 as well as the national media have known all along that utah doesn't really belong in the Pac12 and now it sounds like ute fans are starting to wake up to that reality as well. I imagine this must've been what Jed Clampett, Jethro and Granny felt like after a few years of sticking out like sore thumbs in Beverly Hills.

    (...sound of banjo twanging in the background...)

    y'all come back now, y'hear?

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 22, 2014 6:02 p.m.

    esodije:

    Having a November home schedule of UNLV and Savannah St is exactly the meaning of a weak schedule "especially at home"

    - Fail!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 22, 2014 5:58 p.m.

    Frozen Fractals:

    Noticeably absent from the list of "very high research activity" schools:

    Brigham Young University

    byU falls into the next tier of 99 schools classified as "high research activity" universities. So, while byU does research, it is not up to the level of every single member of the PAC 12.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 22, 2014 5:49 p.m.

    MyPerspective:

    Don't forget the fact that 3 of those 19 games are against Utah, byU's traditional rival. If you take those games out, that leaves 16 games in 12 years, or 1.33 games per year. byU better hope that Utah continues the rivalry after 2018 so they can boost up their PAC 12 presence.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2014 5:34 p.m.

    Taysom4Heisman
    Heber City, UT

    "This is why I would like to see a scheduling agreement with the Big 12, not the Pac 12.

    We essentially have everything an official agreement would bring with the Pac 12."

    If "we" is byu then YOU most certainly do not have anything remotely similar to an official agreement. Those 19 games Holmoe managed to schedule with Pac-12 teams will take place over 12 seasons giving byu about 1.5 Pac-12 games per year. byu (YOU) accomplished that as a member of the MWC.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2014 5:24 p.m.

    WA_Alum&Dad
    Marysville, WA

    "BYU focuses on undergraduate education as part of its mission, but it also has has 68 master's and 25 doctoral degree programs. Its law school and school of management are both always recognized by USN&WR. Its post-grad to undergrad ratio is on par with many of the schools in the PAC."

    Because, WA_Alum&Dad, law school and school of management though nice, is a pittance compared to the value of grad (and PhD) programs and research each and every one of the Pac-12 schools brings to the table. You want to use USN&NR? Fine. Go to the details reflected in the rankings for GRADUATE programs and look at where byu falls. USU outclasses byu.

    Frozen Fractals
    Salt Lake City, UT

    Well done, sir...well done, indeed!

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2014 4:47 p.m.

    @rlsintx
    "I cannot for the life of me understand what correlation there is between a university being a tier 1 research school and the guys they watch play football, who are virtually all undergrads and who will never be grad students at the same school, and probably not at any other either."

    You know how BYU coaches often say things like how there's a higher purpose to a BYU education? Well other institutions feel similarly, and for the PAC collectively, they put a higher emphasis on academics. It's something they care about a lot and something they aren't going to just throw away to add Boise State for football (never gonna happen).

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2014 4:42 p.m.

    @redthunder
    "Mutual aid implies both parties benefit and I'm not seeing how the Pac 12 schools benefit from playing a non Power 5 team."

    Simple, voters (whether AP, Coaches, or playoff selection committee) are able to tell the difference between Marshall and Buffalo, Fresno State and Old Dominion, Kentucky and Oregon, and Rutgers and BYU. Strength of schedule doesn't discriminate based on conference, and BYU is a nice local-ish (depending on PAC team obviously) source of a team that is generally an opponent of decent quality (top 50 most years if not higher) for the PAC teams to schedule.

    @idablu
    "What doesn't pass mustard is the statement that ALL the PAC 12 schools are such universities and meet that requirement for inclusion. "

    Wikipedia "list of research universities in the united states", under "very high research activity" (108 schools) you'd find
    Arizona State University
    Oregon State University
    Stanford University
    University of Arizona
    University of California, Berkeley
    University of California, Los Angeles
    University of Colorado Boulder
    University of Oregon
    University of Southern California
    University of Utah
    University of Washington-Seattle
    Washington State University

    12/12

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    July 22, 2014 4:36 p.m.

    Utah's "coup" of being invited to join the PAC will only have meaning when/if it becomes a legitimate contender for conference championships in football and basketball. BYU's experiment with football independence will only be a failure when/if it consistently has weak schedules (especially at home), its TV deal with ESPN goes south, and it stops making the post-season. Since neither one has happened yet, I'd say Utah fans have little to crow about and BYU fans have little reason to despair. BYU isn't going to win another football NC anytime soon, but who cares? It could never recruit at that level, and, even if it could, who'd want some of those people prowling around their campus?

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2014 4:27 p.m.

    @ManInTheMiddle
    "Perhaps at some point the Pac 12 will admit that picking Colorado was a mistake. "

    Opening up the Denver-Boulder market while adding another highly respected research institution is not going to be viewed as a mistake by the PAC-12 regardless of how little success Colorado has in most athletics.

    That said, I'd like BYU and Utah to be in the same conference, but BYU doesn't meet PAC-12 standards when it comes to research/graduate programs (which is not to say BYU is bad at academics, I'd say their undergraduate program is better than Utah's and that they have very strong business and law programs, it's just that the PAC prioritizes other things that happen to be BYUs weak point).

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 22, 2014 4:24 p.m.

    "This might be a good topic to bring up this week as the Pac-12 football media days kick off — the BYU scheduling consortium...BYU has scheduled at least 19 games with Pac-12 teams through 2025..."

    That's fewer than 2 Pac-12 games/season. That can hardly be considered a "scheduling consortium".

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 22, 2014 4:21 p.m.

    "The Pac-12 presidents and chancellors may never include BYU because of 'cultural differences,' but that hasn’t kept league athletic directors and coaches from scheduling the Cougar football team through the next decade....Call it a mutual aid society of football: You help us, we’ll help you." -- Dick Harmon

    It also hasn't stopped Pac-12 ADs and coaches from scheduling MWC teams like Nevada or Hawai'i either. In fact, Nevada got a Home-&-Home with Arizona rather than having to submit to a quasi-2-for-1, like Utah's little brother.

    And Dick, don't forget...it wasn't JUST the "cultural difference" of being an institution who'd been censured by the AAUP that kept the Y out of the Pac-12. There was also the "academic difference" of not being a Tier-1 Research institution, and the "athletic difference" of having never played in a BCS bowl. It was all three.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 22, 2014 3:59 p.m.

    This is why I would like to see a scheduling agreement with the Big 12, not the Pac 12.

    We essentially have everything an official agreement would bring with the Pac 12.

    However, we only play the Big 12 once in most future seasons, if that.

    A scheduling agreement with the Big 12, along with our unofficial agreement with the Pac 12, would give us between 5-8 Power 5 teams every year, depending on the details of a possible agreement and any other P5 teams we might schedule.

    Plus it would get a foot in the door of the Big 12, a conference I would greatly prefer to be in over the Pac 12.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    July 22, 2014 3:45 p.m.

    Oh, and last I looked, UO had no colleges of medicine, engineering or agriculture. In fact, it lags woefully behind OSU in it's current research spending. So what gives, Duck?

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    July 22, 2014 3:38 p.m.

    @Outa Water:
    Please tell us your definition of a Tier-1 research institution. BYU focuses on undergraduate education as part of its mission, but it also has has 68 master's and 25 doctoral degree programs. Its law school and school of management are both always recognized by USN&WR. Its post-grad to undergrad ratio is on par with many of the schools in the PAC. So, what criteria do you use ma'am or sir?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2014 3:38 p.m.

    Black Shirts "Kansas is in the BIG12, it doesn't make them good. Utah is Kansas of the PAC12"
    As a member of the Big12, Kansas earned a BCS bowl game. Thank you for saying that Utah - like Kansas - can sometimes earn a top tier bowl while a member of a P5 conference.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    July 22, 2014 3:25 p.m.

    It's great BYU will continue to be acceped and schedule PAC-12 schools but what are they playing for every year? Once they lose a game there is no chance for a high profile bowl or a league championship. Is getting back in the MWC so bad? Playing for championships is what the majority of college teams strive for. Why is BYU football an exception? Could it be money?

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    July 22, 2014 3:21 p.m.

    I cannot for the life of me understand what correlation there is between a university being a tier 1 research school and the guys they watch play football, who are virtually all undergrads and who will never be grad students at the same school, and probably not at any other either.

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    July 22, 2014 2:53 p.m.

    @ Idablue, I agree that comments like that from Harmon do make it more difficult for Holmoe and the program.

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    July 22, 2014 2:52 p.m.

    Well Dick that is one way to view the information. I think it is very skewed on your part. The fact that UCLA posts that they have improved their schedule does not necessarily mean they are viewing a game with BYU as the game that made their schedule stronger. Looking at the teams UCLA is going to play, BYU probably ranks 6th or 7th of the 8 teams listed. That reads to me, the Bruins will not be playing any Weber State's anymore, instead we have schedule BYU. PAC-12 members Washington and Utah easily disposed of BYU, I don't know how one can think that Provo is a legitimate threat. There is a reason why the PAC-12 has scheduled with BYU, yes the usual things Provo hangs its hat on, ESPN, etc. But it is also a team that is beatable, the last four years BYU has had a recruiting ranking in the high 70's, the talent is not there.

  • DuckOuttaWater SLC , UT
    July 22, 2014 2:28 p.m.

    Just to clarify to those who think research has nothing to do with it, every single PAC12 school is at least a tier 1 research institution. BYU is not. I'm not going to argue about bigotry because there's really no facts to prove it, but research is a factor and is important to the PAC12. ALL the PAC12 schools meet a threshold that BYU doesn't. I don't say that to put down BYU, it's just fact.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 22, 2014 1:49 p.m.

    "Welcome to all the UofU fans that peruse and eventually comment on BYU articles."

    We got nothing else to do while waiting for the DNews to do a real sports story.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    July 22, 2014 1:25 p.m.

    I'd just like to extend a belated Welcome to all the UofU fans that peruse and eventually comment on BYU articles. Your interest in all things BYU is impressive. Are we not your big brothers??

    Even if you do hang your hats on your recent upsets of the Cougars, you're not that relevant in the grand scheme of things.

    P.S. We usually don't listen to the comments of the kid in the highchair sitting at the grown-up table.

    Go BYU.
    Go (away) UofU!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 22, 2014 1:22 p.m.

    65TossPowerTrap:

    " I honestly think that BYU will better thrive outside a P-5 conference. BYU will not gain a significant enough advantage in recruiting in a P-5 conference to make it competitive"

    In other words: byU will never get better, so why try? Sad!

    Enjoy your paltry hand-out from the championship playoff games and your low threshold bowl games for the rest of your foreseeable future!

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    July 22, 2014 12:18 p.m.

    In all honesty, even though Dick's comment about pregame cocktails was purely tongue-in-cheek, it was probably ill-advised. I am sure such statements don't make Holmoe's job of scheduling or trying to get into the P-5 any easier.

  • Black Shirts Mckinney, TX
    July 22, 2014 12:11 p.m.

    Man these Utey fans are talking smack like they're Alabama. All this talk about schedule, blah, blah. The Uteys sched does have some great teams. However, the Uteys will only win 3 games this year. Idaho St (HUM), Fresno St, and Colorado. So, here is how it plays out. The Uteys are 2-0 and acting like they won the Rose Bowl(Never!)... before you know it they're 3-9 and K-noWhit is fired!!!

    Think about this. The Utes had two great seasons Ever! One because of Meyer and one because of Anderson (not KW).

    Here's some more, Kansas is in the BIG12, it doesn't make them good. Utah is Kansas of the PAC12....2-4 wins a year.

    Does Utah have any games of TV, just saying!!! Recruiting isn't going all that great, in the 50's is not going to get the Uteys to any bowls games. UM 44 UtahTech 6!!! The beginning of the end!!!

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    July 22, 2014 12:07 p.m.

    I don't think anyone disputes that Utah is a fine institution for research and higher learning. What doesn't pass mustard is the statement that ALL the PAC 12 schools are such universities and meet that requirement for inclusion. That is why using that argument against BYU is rather silly.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    July 22, 2014 12:07 p.m.

    BYU's stock will continue on as it has since Lavell brought football prominence. Inclusion in a major conference will happen, eventually, since having 5 conferences for a 4 team playoff won't sit well for the conference that is left out. Consolidation will happen at some point and BYU will be one of those left to the PAC to pick up.

    My concern with BYU is not scheduling issues, it's how does BYU keep ESPN happy so they choose to sign a new contract in a few years. If BYU loses ESPN then it's the beginning of the end. If ESPN stays on board then things will keep moving on as in the past.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    July 22, 2014 11:55 a.m.

    @Who am I sir?
    "I intend to text, phone, or write 12 questions (actually the same question to the 12 coaches) for responses at the media days event..."

    Wait.... Are you the same guy who ratted out Spencer Hadley right before the Utah/BYU game?

    Seriously, Who am I sir and My Perspective (same guy?). I have never seen a fan base get so worked up about a (former) rival who they consider "irrelevant."

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 22, 2014 11:40 a.m.

    "If articles like this cause you such angst . . . then why do you read them?"

    Pretty funny stuff coming from a guy who never fails to post a barb on a Utah story.

    The problem is simple, ducky. Harmon is using up all the available ink writing pony-and-rainbow pieces to stir up you y "fans." U fans are entertained by the contortions and have nothing else to read in the DNews.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    July 22, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    WA_Alum&Dad

    "Your points about the hypocrisy of the "research institution" meme as the reason for no invite to the PAC for BYU is exactly right. WSU/OSU/ASU? Please."

    Well...

    "Arizona State, for instance, has only made strides to become a bona fide research institution in recent years and still doesn't have a medical school or a university publishing house."

    ASU is not a research institution nor a medical school, nor anything of the like.

    Anyone touting that ALL PAC-12 schools fit some specific mold is only kidding themselves. Interestingly, I've only heard it from Utah fans who are countering the PAC-12 religious bigotry. Sorry, but as a fan of ASU (not the PAC-12), the religious bigotry is there, but not just in the PAC-12, it's in most (if not all) of the institution of 'higher learning'.

  • Jefe-Ute SLC, UT
    July 22, 2014 11:09 a.m.

    This just in from bleacher report, Bronco listed as one of the WORST coaches against top 25 teams. Bronco, out of the 82 games he has won as a head coach has ONLY won 5 games! A ticket to the Big 12 would not be a walk in the park.

    Cold Hard Facts BYU fans.

  • 311ute Reno, NV
    July 22, 2014 10:10 a.m.

    This "we belong" jargon is getting old. The reason why BYU is not in a P5 conference is simple; after looking at the Pro's and Con's of inviting BYU to join a conference it's obvious that there are more con's. If there were more pro's, they would have been invited already. It's not academics, it's not culture, it's not athletics, it is simply the sum of all the parts do not add enough benefits to invite BYU. One can speculate why BYU has not been invited but any speculation is just that, speculation. The athletic directors and presidents of these P5 schools are not dumb or ignorant. If they felt that BYU would improve their conference, they would no doubt bring them in. They have done the research and the conclusion by both the BIg12 and Pac12 is that BYU is not worth an invite. So go ahead and spew all your facts that you belong, it creates good commentary but it will not change the fact that you are still sitting at the kids table.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 22, 2014 9:52 a.m.

    I intend to text, phone, or write 12 questions (actually the same question to the 12 coaches) for responses at the media days event

    ie. to Coach Sonny Dykes of University of California.

    "Coach Dykes. Dick Harmon, a columnist for the Deseret News who covers BYU athletics said in an article last Monday, "Pac-12 presidents may struggle with BYU because they can’t share a pre-game cocktail" Do you think President Napolitano would have a problem with BYU because she can't share a pre-game cocktail as Mr. Harmon suggests?"

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    July 22, 2014 9:47 a.m.

    Kralon knows of what he speaks...

    "... beefing up UCLA's schedule, but I had to laugh when I saw Rutgers! I know they are a P5 school but they must be very near if not the bottom of all P5 schools. Sports Illustrated listed the odds of 51 teams winning the national championship in the coming season and Rutgers was 1000/1 (BYU was the only Utah school and was 150/1)."

    My personal estimate is that more than one-half (33 of 65) P5 schools have mid-major quality football programs.

    So I am not at all surprised that BYU is the only Utah school getting any "line play" (pun intended) in SI's listing of the odds.

    Seems like the money men recognize my previous assertion: Utah will NEVER win the PAthetiC-12 and thus will NEVER win a National Championship.

  • redthunder Ogden, UT
    July 22, 2014 9:20 a.m.

    "Call it a mutual aid society of football: You help us, we’ll help you."
    ------
    Huh??? Mutual aid implies both parties benefit and I'm not seeing how the Pac 12 schools benefit from playing a non Power 5 team. The Pac 12 is keeping BYU alive at this point. The Cougars need the Pac schools much, much, much more than they need the Cougs.

    You're killing me Dick!!

  • pleblian salt lake city, utah
    July 22, 2014 9:13 a.m.

    Ute fans would be better served focusing on the Utes and less on their "past" rival.

    BYU has made it clear they want to be a P5 program, but is also not willing to give up its extremely valuable TV situation--BYUTV, whose most popular product, btw, are BYU sports.

    When the next reassignment comes, BYU will either be included in the power conferences or join a long list of private schools that sue the pants off of the P5 State-sponsored schools for anti-trust practices--and win.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    July 22, 2014 9:05 a.m.

    @Well . . .
    Your points about the hypocrisy of the "research institution" meme as the reason for no invite to the PAC for BYU is exactly right. WSU/OSU/ASU? Please.

    It is the cultural divide, in spades. Anyone who wants to pretend otherwise is free to do so, but be advised how ridiculous you sound trying to convince anyone else.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 22, 2014 9:01 a.m.

    @Well....

    "Power 5 politics aren't about research and never were" I don't believe anyone ever said Power 5 politics are about research. However, the PAC-12 is very much about academics and research. I won't use generalities, as you have, I will use facts.
    The two top rating agencies of world universities are Times Higher Education World University Rankings and QS World Universities Ranking. 2013-2014 results are summarized here:
    Times Higher identifies 11 of 12 members in the top 350 world universities (Oregon and BYU are not listed) Utah is #143, Colorado #97 and Arizona State #146. The top 9 schools are ranked in the top 61 of US. (Utah is #60!); QS rankings similar (generally not as high world rankings) with 11 of 12 ranked in top 85 US (Utah 271 World and 62 US) with Oregon in 551-600 grouping World and BYU in 701+ (who knows how high + is?)
    What a conference! Utah, in the middle third of conference belongs!

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    July 22, 2014 8:58 a.m.

    Who cares about being in a P-5 conference. If the big boys of college football want to create new rules that put the smaller schools at a disadvantage - let em. I honestly think that BYU will better thrive outside a P-5 conference. BYU will not gain a significant enough advantage in recruiting in a P-5 conference to make it competitive. If you don't believe me - look at the mess Utah and TCU are in right now. They will be like greyhound dogs at the racetrack - always chasing the rabbit but never able to catch it.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 22, 2014 8:49 a.m.

    "Some Cougar fans got their undies tangled"

    Obviously Harmon's have been tangled since Utah's invite. But that has fueled his enthusiasm for playing the Y's house organ.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 22, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    "Cultural differences" = Prop 8 killed byu's chance at joining the PAC which just shows if you behave in a certain manner, you're going to have to pay the price.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 22, 2014 8:00 a.m.

    Spokane Ute
    Spokane, WA

    Ah, thank you for a reasoned, reasonable critical comment.

    The conclusions may be debatable, and my friend, I will always enjoy debeting them with you, but the evidence is overwhelming.

    Whether or not BYU will ever succeed in cajoling an invitation to the P-5, will forever be an ignition point along the Wasatch Front. I will admit to being a card carrying, kool-aid drinking blue-bleeding cougar fan. In my wildest fanciful daydreams, I imagine another undefeated season. One with just enough gravitas to force inclusion into the play-off picture.

    Because that would mean at least two P-5 champions would not be included. Wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if it were the SEC and ACC?

    And only once did I imagine it would be the PAC. In a year that Utah won it. Because apparently that would have to be a year that they didn't play BYU.

    Me and Walter Mitty.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 22, 2014 7:47 a.m.

    BYU's ability to schedule P5 schools doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. They have lined up some good teams in the coming years. Having a 65,000 seat stadium is a nice selling point. It's the bowl tie in, or lack there of, that's a killer.

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    July 22, 2014 7:08 a.m.

    The PAC 12 let us in their conference because we will win it.

    Every year our record gets good.

  • Well.... Phoenix, AZ
    July 22, 2014 12:48 a.m.

    Several of you jeering about BYU as a supposedly fictitious research institution and saying that's why it doesn't stack up among the Power 5 need to double-check your facts about several Power 5 schools.

    Arizona State, for instance, has only made strides to become a bona fide research institution in recent years and still doesn't have a medical school or a university publishing house. Also check out Oregon State's and Washington State's statuses as "research institutions" sometime and see if the "paper-thin" academic profile fits them even *better* than BYU. (BYU, for its part, has never claimed to be a top-flight research institution, though as its undergraduate education profile has become stronger, its research has improved.) For that matter, how strong top-to-bottom are the graduate programs/research quality at Oklahoma State? 'Bama? LSU? Louisville? Pitt? Nebraska?

    Power 5 politics aren't about research and never were--they're about football. Period. Not academics, not cultural compatibility (though it makes for a convenient excuse in some cases), and not even any other sport. Football's the tail wagging the dog, and research and academics are only afterthoughts. Don't kid yourselves otherwise.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 22, 2014 12:38 a.m.

    Pac-12 presidents may struggle with BYU because they can’t share a pre-game cocktail,

    Enough is enough! Let's get to the bottom of this. PAC-12 media days are this Wednesday and Thursday. There will be national media coverage and every school will be represented. Let's see the Deseret News and/or Salt Lake Tribune ask each school. Point blank... "Is the President of your university one who struggles with BYU because your president can't share a pre-game cocktail?" Don't let them quibble or be evasive... great journalism can probe to the bottom and get the answer and hold those president accountable.

    That's assuming the Deseret News will cover this event. It would mean their sports writers may not be able to write their daily Fredette watch report.. or how this may be the year for a former or current ball player.. or any of the other articles meant only to keep BYU in the news regardless of how noteworthy the subject might be.

    If you guys won't do it... maybe the associated press should press for the answer.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    July 22, 2014 12:13 a.m.

    Wow, another independence works article on scheduling. Wake up call, check BYU's schedule the last three years, and this year, the fourth in independence? It's extremely weak.

    On average, BYU has three legit games each year. It's not that much different from the MWC days for Utah and BYU right?. Wrong, the games outside those three games are far down in quality from even the Mountain West. Since independence, BYU has played or will play; Idaho, Idaho State, Middle Tennessee State, Savannah State, New Mexico State, San Jose State, Weber State, Tulsa, Utep, Nevada, UNLV, Connecticut, and so on. Some of those games were even bowl opponents. Plus outside a few good games, the middle tier opponents aren't noticeable names either (UCF Knights, Hawaii, San Diego State, Houston ect..) Now look at the other BCS type opponents. Outside of Texas, Wisconsin and Notre Dame (independent), the rest are bottom feeder conference teams; Ole Miss, Oregon State, Georgia Tech, Washington State, Virginia, and California. But we also have Utah and TCU who now have losing records in BCS conferences yet beat BYU most every year in the MWC.

    BYU does have Boise State (now minus Chris Petersen).

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 21, 2014 11:36 p.m.

    On one hand..."It's great to travel all over the country, exposure, different stadiums! blah blah blah.

    On the other hand...The PAC 12 is a natural fit because it's so close.

    The spin never stops. lol.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 21, 2014 11:00 p.m.

    BYU shouldn't care if the ACC and SEC would count the game as mid-major. So what? Schedule them anyway! It counts as a P5 game on BYU's schedule. The worst thing is to repeat the lie that the ACC and SEC won't schedule BYU at all.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 21, 2014 10:51 p.m.

    "Pac-12 presidents may struggle with BYU because they can’t share a pre-game cocktail,"

    Pay attention any conference or whatever considering BYU. This is typical of the type of coverage and mindset associated with BYU! The fans are spoon fed this and they soak it up!

  • Little Pete South Jordan, UT
    July 21, 2014 10:34 p.m.

    The Utes have moved on to greener pastures! We are going to win the Rose Bowl this year hands down!

    Go Pac 12!

  • DuckOuttaWater SLC , UT
    July 21, 2014 10:31 p.m.

    I wish BYU and my Ducks would schedule some games. That'd be fun.

    ManInTheMiddle, please tell me you're kidding right. Colorado is an AAU school with a Big 12 championship and a national championship. BYU will never be in the PAC12 because they aren't AAU or tier 1 in research and because they are religious and won't play on Sundays.

    My Perspective, some good points, but if you don't think BYU's culture hurts their chances for inclusion, you're truly naive. Just as BYU will never be in the PAC12, no religious school ever will regardless of research status. Sad but true.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 21, 2014 10:29 p.m.

    Mr. Harmon,

    What a writer! You say, "Pac-12 presidents may struggle with BYU because they can’t share a pre-game cocktail," My thoughts of you cannot be expressed because of the censorship issues. Why not tell it like it is? The resentment of BYU by some PAC-12 schools lies in the social issues of the sponsoring institution ie. Prop 8, academic freedom, etc. As far as a "cocktail", I know at the BYU hospitality room at the Holiday Bowl such drinks were not visible but were available upon request (At least that is what one professional who provided services to the BYU team said.)

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 21, 2014 10:12 p.m.

    @myperspective
    "On the other hand, if you are still pushing the "bigot" refrain...shame on you."

    -----------

    Wow, half the posts on this BYU article are you. Interesting...

    As for your comment, has that issue disappeared all of a sudden or something? Did it magically disappear or go away? Are the California schools all chummy now with the Mormon Church?

  • The Jimmer Okemos, MI
    July 21, 2014 10:02 p.m.

    You left off the best part of the article:

    "Of course, this only helps the Bruins if they win these games. UCLA’s last visit to Provo (2008) resulted in a 59-0 loss."

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 21, 2014 10:02 p.m.

    If articles like this cause you such angst noperspective then why do you read them? Glutton for punishment is all I can deduce. lol

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    July 21, 2014 9:58 p.m.

    Is the rumor that the Utes used their influence to get BYU all those games? That was certainly nice of them.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 21, 2014 9:48 p.m.

    "BYU has scheduled at least 19 games with Pac-12 teams through 2025, and that doesn’t included games expected to be under contract with Utah"

    So does that mean the Pac12 is a lower tier p5 conference since they have no problem scheduling games with BYU? Apparently then this means there's a separation or class system within the p5 structure and the Pac12 is in the bottom half behind the SEC, ACC, etc?

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    July 21, 2014 9:20 p.m.

    The PAC 12 won't let us in their conference because we would win it.

    Every year.

  • Jefe-Ute SLC, UT
    July 21, 2014 8:45 p.m.

    Yay!!! Another moral victory for BYU. They were mentioned in an article BEFORE Oklahoma, LSU, AND Michigan. It doesn't get much better than that!

  • ManInTheMiddle SANDY, UT
    July 21, 2014 8:01 p.m.

    Perhaps at some point the Pac 12 will admit that picking Colorado was a mistake. Perhaps Colorado gets kicked out and BYU replaces them? Seems that BYU is a much better fit for the PAC 12.....

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 21, 2014 7:58 p.m.

    Finally...

    "The Pac-12 presidents and chancellors may never include BYU because of “cultural differences...”

    If by "cultural differences" you mean...
    -Not a research institution
    -No medical school
    -byu's paper thin portfolio of graduate and PhD programs

    You are correct.

    On the other hand, if you are still pushing the "bigot" refrain...shame on you.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 21, 2014 7:53 p.m.

    "The reaction in Utah was predictable. Some Cougar fans got their undies tangled running to their minivans. Some radio talking heads jacked it up as a sign BYU was now and forever definitely a Power 5 conference outsider and it was the end of the world."

    Of course, the local media had no responsibility in the condition you describe. Sheesh!

    "In the meantime, Holmoe was puzzled. What was the big deal? He still talks contracts with SEC and ACC folks as an independent contractor."

    Really? Holmoe has never attempted to schedule them before...not with any regularity, at least. Further, if it wasn't important, why did Holmoe make the effort to meet with them? Holmoe's goal, as reported by you, was to get the ACC and SEC to recognize byu as a P5 team. Epic failure. And now you claim that Holmoe didn't understand why there was concern.

    All you have done here is take a different perspective on the stories you have already written and attempted to pass it off as a new development. Nothing has changed here, Dick. Your cougs are not a part of the Big12, the Pac-12, or any other conference.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 21, 2014 7:43 p.m.

    And now it's time to let cougar-ville know that everything is ok. Cue Dick Harmon...

    "One can probably remember those couple of weeks this past spring when ACC and SEC commissioners told reporters those league’s wouldn’t recommend BYU as a non-conference game to fill out schedules...And the Pac-12 is more than willing to work with the Cougars and their independent scheduling needs."

    Dick, the SEC and ACC didn't say they wouldn't play byu, they said that a game with byu doesn't satisfy their new requirement of an out of conference P5 team. Thus, byu is labeled as a mid-major by the SEC and ACC.

    As for the Pac-12, each team in that elite conference already plays 9 P5 teams and are free to schedule any mid-major they want (including byu). The Pac-12 hardly cares about byu's "independent scheduling needs." How can you write something like this after unabashedly proclaiming the Pac-10 schools to be bigots?

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    July 21, 2014 7:06 p.m.

    "Bruins have added Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Fresno State, San Diego State, Rutgers, LSU and Michigan through 2023"

    I know the title of the article said beefing up UCLA's schedule, but I had to laugh when I saw Rutgers! I know they are a P5 school but they must be very near if not the bottom of all P5 schools. Sports Illustrated listed the odds of 51 teams winning the national championship in the coming season and Rutgers was 1000/1 (BYU was the only Utah school and was 150/1).