@The Real Maverick:"History has proven that companies will always
prefer to get along with each other and gouge the customer rather than compete.
Just ask Teddy Roosevelt."You say that like it is bad. If
corporations aren't people, then why should we be expecting them to act
morally. People are moral. Corporations exist to make money. In your view,
they were acting like a good corporation, so then why the condemnation?
RE: JimInSlC "Citigroup and the other Too Big to Fail banks should have
been allowed to sink or swim,..." But there's the problem. If they
had failed American capitalism would have failed. That would have been a good
thing in that we would be rid of capitalism and its excesses once and for all,
but would have been bad because of the adjustments we would have had to go
through - I could take it but I wouldn't want to burden my children and
grandchildren.Do you all understand what these banks are admitting
to? Money laundering(!), overcharging customers, illegal conspiracies to set
interest rates, manipulating the mortgage market, and wholesale deception of the
public.These outfits should not be allowed to exist. Nationalize
Are you saying private enterprise is out of control?
It amazes me that Citi has enough $ lying around to procure the naming rights to
the NY Mets new stadium and pay a fine to the Gov't that helped precipitate
this crisis, but...They can't/won't write off all the
underwater loans and possibly stimulate the economy by giving many average
people a bit more cash.
re: The Real MaverickSo? George Carlin was right. The system would
clean itself up if we started punishing white, middle class bankers?
@ NateYes, bad government policy is very much to blame.Why aren't we regulating these guys? Isn't someone supposed to keep
watch?Why are they so big? If they aren't a monopoly I
don't know what is. I thought we had anti-trust laws to prevent these types
of monstrosities from forming?If banks are too big to fail, then we
need to break them up and force them to compete against each other.History has proven that companies will always prefer to get along with each
other and gouge the customer rather than compete. Just ask Teddy Roosevelt.
Citibank got taxpayer bailouts in 1995, 1997, 1998, and 2002. What message do
you think they received about risky behavior leading up to 2008? I'm not
saying they weren't wrong...just that bad government policy had its role to
play as well.
@CentralUtahAlpine, UTI'm one of the people who was
"taken to the bank" by Citi. =========== We lost
$400,0000 due to Bank of America.I'd like to see someone in
jail for it...$7 billion, $`3 Billion sound like a lot -- But that earn $350 Billion in profits per year.It's
basically like Banks robbing the Bank customers, The Federal Government
"Bailing" them out, being found guilty in court and NOT going to
jail, being allowed to keep everything they stole, and only
paying a parking ticket fine for it.
Why isn't anyone going to jail?I thought corporations were
people?So are they only people sometimes?
$7 billion is chump-change to Citi, and they weren't even forced to admit
to any wrongdoing.Until there's actual jail time - bankers
doing a perp walk on their way out of a courthouse and on their way to prison -
nothing will change and we'll all get hosed again.
A mere slap on the wrist for their bad behavior. This is not a victory for the
working class and for those emotionally and financially damaged by the reckless
behavior of this corporation.
@marxistA company that is "too big to fail" shouldn't
be publicly owned. It should be prosecuted as a monopoly. Any company that is so
big that it's failure would potentially destroy the economy needs to be
dismantled as a monopoly. The article misses the point - a huge fine will cause
them to reconsider overly-risky actions. Not even! So they're paying out $7
billion in fines - half of this year's income...how much additional profit
did they make prior to the recession from taking the big risks of making bad
loans? The article itself does point out that the government loaned them $45
billion in the bailout. "Too big to fail" means a failure to properly
use anti-trust laws and removes most of the downside from any risky ventures for
these behemoth companies.
So no one is publicly humiliated any more.
Citigroup isn't a corporation. It's an individual and as such should
be in jail.
I'm one of the people who was "taken to the bank" by Citi. You try and get relief from them and they just say the settlement
doesn't apply in your case. No one I know has received anything from
them.Where does the money go? To law firms and kickbacks.One of the saddest aspects of our society is corrupt businesses settling with
the government. No one knows where the money ends up…case in point, the
$171 million settlement that Utah received two years ago in a deal brokered by
Herbert and Shurtleff (not to the people who were injured to make them whole).
When the corporations figured out how to avoid criminal liability and the feds
agreeing to settlements, it opened the floodgates for the public to get cheated
out of billions while companies paid millions in fines. This is truly a sad, sad
time for the integrity of our country.
Just who will be paying that $7 Billion fine levied on Citi and the $13 Billion
fine levied on Bank of America? It will be you and me and all the other credit
card holders of Citi and BofA credit cards. We will pay higher interest rates
on our cards.Businesses do not pay taxes, their customers pay those
taxes.Businesses do not pay fines, their customers pay those
fines.It's false economy to levy a fine. It would have been
much better to prosecute those people in those businesses who made those loans.
The CEO, the CFO, the Board of Directors, the chief Vice Presidents, the chief
loan officers, and anyone else who promoted or approved those loans should have
Citigroup and the other Too Big to Fail banks should have been allowed to sink
or swim, solving their own financial problems in 2008. where laws were broken,
those responsible should have been held accountable. Having propped the banks
up with bailouts, they are back to their old ways and it is only a matter of
time before they are needing to be bailed out again.What China is
doing right is that they have manufacturing; Producing products that Americans
buy. Manufacturing that was once done on US soil has been moved to China by US
corporations. In order to save on labor costs we have put the economy in a
precarious position.After 2008 the public should have dropped all of
citigroups stock, IMO. Those investing in corrupt companies deserve what they
get. I remember in 08 citigroup stock was down to like .90 a share and I was
thinking I should buy some but then remembered my dislike for these banks and
what they were allowed to get away with. There are better ways to earn money
than profit from banks pilfering from people.
"It is better to hold companies accountable by the proper application of
civil and criminal penalties than to smother them with over-reaching
regulations."OK, so Citi does some bad things and gets fined.So tell me. - Did Citi the corporation do bad things or did
PEOPLE who run the company and make decisions do bad things?- Has anyone
ever seen a "corporation" in prison?- Who gets hurt most when a
company pays a fine? Is it the corporate employees or the stockholders?If you want to reduce regulations, START holding C-level employees
PERSONALLY accountable for the decisions that they make.I can assure
you that when a CEO or CFO or COO risks prison time rather than a large
corporate fine, very few "regulations" will be necessary.I
know of no one who is anti-corporation.But I and many others are
sick and tired of corporate criminal activity which results in a fine and no
personal accountability.It is not rocket science as to why it
Still not enough.Especially since Citigroup is a person now, right
repubs? Send Citigroup's leadership to prison. Take away their birth
control and see how well their women take it.
Todays stock holders get left holding the bag. Those (execs) responsible get
off Scott free.
If banks are too big too fail they should be publicly owned. Some will say that
is socialism. Maybe, but bailing out private businesses with public money is
the most unjust variety of socialism. I agree with you that
regulation is a bust most of the time. Corporations always figure out a way
around the regulations. But rest assured we will bail out the big banks again.
To be fair let's nationalize them now.A related consideration.
The GDP of the United States actually shrank last quarter, while the
China's growth rate annualized was +7.5% What do the Chinese know we
don't? China is a blend of socialism and capitalism - we know that. But
the nature of that blend is unknown to us. We should have this knowledge. In
fact it's dangerous for the United States to be so closely aligned with a
country it understands so little about.So for clues as to how we
proceed, the Deseret News may want to look east - to China.