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Comments about ‘Herbert on Common Core: 'We are going to settle this question once and for all'’

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Published: Thursday, July 17 2014 1:00 p.m. MDT

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procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . Herbert announced that a committee of higher education representatives had been formed to review whether Utah's current standards adequately prepare students . . . ."

Yeah -- that's what we need. Another committee of "educators," not one of whom has ever had to earn an honest living or run a business, studying whether Utah students are being properly prepared for a life they've never known.

If they're studying whether Utah education properly prepares students for the "rigors" of an unaccountable, taxpayer-funded academic position, and its accompanying tenure politics and social obligations, it might be a valid study.

But, requiring a group of out-of-touch eggheads to confer, then expecting a recommendation for anything other than higher pay, more posh surroundings, and doubling the number of endowed departmental chairs, is lunacy.

We all know what Utah education needs -- less trade-union control, less pampering of students, less focusing on and catering to deviance, and more accountability to the ultimate customers, parents and business leaders.

Anything more is, at best, expensive, unproductive fluff. At worst, it's just another excuse to spend more on education and get less in return.

michaelitos
Salt Lake City, UT

I'm glad they're doing the review AGAIN. Yes, I think it's a waste of taxpayer money. However, I've met so many people who continue to believe that curriculum is somehow affected by the Common Core (which it's not!), that I think we do need for our local and state leaders to come out AGAIN remind everyone that we are not ceding local control.

This review is unfortunate, but necessary.

The Common Core, however, is FANTASTIC! It's about time we standardize educational benchmarks and hold our students to a higher academic level!

srw
Riverton, UT

"'If there is a standard or grade level benchmark that you disagree with, I want to hear about it,' Herbert said."

This is a brilliant idea. They have made it so easy for everyone to review the Common Core standards. I really can't wait to see which standards the Common Core critics disagree with.

Strider303
Salt Lake City, UT

As to Common Core, or any big government program we need to realize that there is big money to be made, in testing, and staffing or teaching which brings unions (AFT, UEA) into the picture. Control of the process is paramount because it will direct the money towards "desired" goals and products.

We elect local boards of education and then eviscerate their authority with an indirectly nominated state board who are selected by the governor, who in a sense poses as the chief educator to select the candidates. (There is a corollary in this as to the folly of having an appointed AG, but I digress).

Eliminate the state school board, let local communities decide via boards what will be taught and how.

Oh, what about meeting college entrance criteria with out the sacred Common Core? That's why there are ACT and SAT exams. The diploma is not really necessary if you score well on the tests. This also protects Home Schoolers who will be forced into the Common Core herd.

The committee is political cover so the governor can support common core against the citizen's desire for its demise.

liberty or ...?
Ogden, UT

Follow the money. He is refusing to take a stand on this issue because of the federal dollars attached to it. His statement that these standards are not mandatory is irrelevant due to the fact the SAT and college entrance exams are all being geared to this curricullum and standards so if you don't implament them your kids are already at a disadvantage. His other statement about recieving support calls for & against is deceptive. My wife worked on the PTA and many of my relatives are teachers as well as myself at one point I left largely because of this garbage and government redtape as far back as NCLB for every 1 teacher in support of this there are 15-20 against it. Even the liberal teachers unions of Chicago and Newyork have come out against this.The same was true at the convention the 5-6 people for it were easily outnumbered 20-1.Despite the Feds should not be dictating standards to begin with The curriculum content scares me. Check out the new AP college history test. If leaked information is true Karl Marx's statement that a people seperated from their roots are easily moved is at the core.

srw
Riverton, UT

procuradorfiscal wrote, "But, requiring a group of out-of-touch eggheads to confer, then expecting a recommendation for anything other than higher pay, more posh surroundings, and doubling the number of endowed departmental chairs, is lunacy."

Are you opposed to endowed chairs (university faculty positions paid for by private donors)?

"In addition to the review by the attorney general's office, Herbert announced that a committee of higher education representatives had been formed to review whether Utah's current standards adequately prepare students for careers and higher education."

I don't think this says that the higher education representatives will review their own working conditions...

Justmythoughts
Provo, UT

I don't get the hysteria over common core. Uniform standards that students need to meet to compete in a global economy seems reasonable to me. It makes sense that we require our students to prepare for the future....? These government conspiracy claims perplex me.

J in AZ
San Tan Valley, AZ

Someone please explain to me why 56 different definitions of what a High School graduate should know is better than one.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "It's about time we standardize educational benchmarks and hold our students to a higher academic level!"

Yeah, that might be nice -- not the standardization, but the higher academic part -- but that has absolutely nothing to do with Common Core.

Real teachers and real parents object to Common Core, not just because it's an attempt to federalize control of education, or that it bureaucratizes teaching, but because it dumbs down the good basic education teachers already know how to give. It diverts good teachers and good schools away from real education, making them teach kids nothing more than how to take tests.

bill in af
American Fork, UT

I applaud the Governor and his efforts to bring a common sense approach to the debate. Too bad that "Queen Gale" and her Eagle Forum will still find fault with any results since they know what is best for us all. Just ask them.

Kralon
HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA

As someone with children in K12 I decided to read "common core" and I read the entire standard, every grade level, every page. I found nothing to be concerned about except that it is not a very high standard. However, I do agree it is good to have a national standard, but we might do better to look at Finland or other countries with great public schools for that standard.

Most students can learn much more and be pushed much faster than they are in K12 education, especially with regard to STEM, so I would like to see an enhanced standard above common core used in our schools.

Howard Beal
Provo, UT

Whether it is "associated" with the common core or not, the SAGE testing needs to die.

Kings Court
Alpine, UT

What we need is to cut through all the propaganda, misperceptions, and flat out lies the anti-common core crowd keep squawking about. I have found that those against the common-core are very few, but they are obnoxiously loud. When I try to sit down and talk with them about their point of view, they are eager to share, but once you start asking them critical questions, they get extremely defensive. I've also found out that the majority of those who oppose the common core have never even read the core standards. They can only repeat what a neighbor, friend, family member, etc, heard from someone, somewhere, yet they put 100% trust in what other tell them rather than finding things out on their own. I have no problem with the core standards, but I do not like the over-emphasis on testing. The testing regime is way too lengthy. The writing portion of the test is more involved the GRE writing test. I've seen this with my own eyes, so yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I've even read the common core too.

Mom of Six
Northern Utah, UT

As a teacher, I thought Common Core would be a good thing. We had so many students coming from out of state. It was explained to us that this would ensure that all grades across the country are learning the same curriculum! Fantastic....or so I thought. The curriculum is very flawed. It was written by people who either have not been in the classroom for a very long time, and run all of what they do by research they have performed in a laboratory. Children are not lab rats! Children are all very different with unique learning abilities. The Common Core approach to math is ridiculous. In second grade students are taught ten different ways to add and subtract. For most students around (80%) this serves no purpose but to confuse. The Common Core approach to teaching has done nothing for kids but to sap the joy out of learning. It has also introduced concepts such as equivalent fractions to 3rd graders who are not equipped developmentally for this type of challenge. Homeschooling is sounding more and more enticing!

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "I found nothing to be concerned about except that it is not a very high standard."

Why wouldn't you be greatly concerned over that? That's the primary reason most real people object -- the federally enforced dumbing down of education.

humbug
Syracuse/Davis, UT

I was behind Common Core until I started reading some of the math problems. The goal of math instruction should NOT be to make it more complicated, more difficult to understand, and more confusing. The goal should not be to guess what the writer of the question had in mind. This is nuts. Math is pretty straight forward. Keep it that way.

pardu
Cedar Hills, UT

When the founders created the constitution they were concerned that any centralized government become too powerful and limit the liberties of the people, therefore they enumerated 18 powers the federal government could operate under and then the bill of rights was created, the first ten amendments, to ensure the federal government was kept in check. The tenth amendment clearly states that anything beyond those enumerated powers were to be left to the states and the people respectively. Education is not an enumerated power and therefore, should be left o the states and the people. The federal government has already exceeded its bounds far too often and far too much, let the people of Utah, parents, educators and legislators who represent them decide what standards are appropriate. Policies outside the jurisdiction coming from the top down from the federal government are a result of public apathy and the designs of those who seek power, either with good intentions or not.

the truth
Holladay, UT

Common core is MOR%E than just standards as many on left want to claim.

It has test that contain certain material, which must be taught in order to pass the said test.

So the test dictate what must be taught in the classroom.

If the test has very communist socialist, or progressive material, ideologies, and and views, then that must be taught in the class room for the student to pass the test.

if the test denigrates the founding fathers then that must be taught.

if the test denigrates the United States then that must must be taught in the class room.

If the test deem Lincoln is not very important, then, lincoiln will not be taught in the class room.

if the test decides

I could on and on but you get the point.

The test dictate and control what must be taught in the classroom.

The tests are very troubling, That is a very big problem.

You can claim the local state has control over what is taught but that is not true if want the student to pass the liberal and leftest written tests.

Chuck E. Racer
Lehi, UT

As long as the committee has this restriction "...but Herbert cautioned that comments should be specific and related to the actual content of the Core," it cannot solve the problem, because the standards themselves are the minor problem. The major problem is what HAVING these de facto national standards does to education in this and every other state. The very fact of having these standards as a national "goal," allows Congress, the DOE, and the President to control our community schools, much more than anyone ever was willing to allow.

The tests, developed with national funding and oversight, will drive the actual teaching, particularly as scores from these tests become the major part of teacher evaluations. Teachers will use exactly the methods that the tests are made for and will also not teach anything else. They become the lid, not the floor, of what is taught. No one will teach more, because that will not be tested, and the tests will be the bottom line.

iceskatercjudd
Coalville, UT

While it is great to have a national standard like Common Core the problem is though while it elevates many under performing students, it also brings down students the are top performers. If you look at the new common core math, to reach a high level calculus class while in High School was very manageable before the standards changed, now though a student must either double up on a math class or at a very young age test up to the next level to get out of it. Like No Child Left Behind this new core standard focuses more on leveling the playing field for everyone rather than raising education for everyone.

Tests show that the US is unable to compete internationally anymore when it comes to education and if the core standards make it even harder for kids to find their way to AP, IB, or other advanced standards, we are only going to see it fall farther. It is good to raise the standard but not to make a national curriculum that holds some back, is unable to teach different areas effectively, and is unable to change depending on a schools success rate.

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