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Comments about ‘My view: Marriage and social justice go hand-in-hand when in comes to raising children’

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Published: Thursday, July 17 2014 1:16 p.m. MDT

Updated: Thursday, July 17 2014 1:16 p.m. MDT

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KJB1
Eugene, OR

And the Desperation Express just keeping chugging along...

Considering that there is no requirement that a married couple have children, pulling out the old "every child deserves a mother and a father" claim in order to outlaw same-sex marriage is particularly pointless. This debate has been going on for years and we have yet to see the anti-equality crowd give any argument stronger than "God says homosexuality is a sin." If I had to guess, I don't think we're going to be seeing one.

I'm sure that won't stop them from trying, though.

UT Brit
London, England

I agree, so in consequence everyone who is not an upper middle class asian married couple should be sterilized. I want the best for children and the couple I mentioned are statistically proven to be the best parents.
I assume the author would agree.

DHScientist
SLC, UT

This article is right on. At the bottom of this issue is the fact that kids need a mom and a dad. Society should recognize and support that need.

WyomingWoman
Kaysville, UT

Thank you for stating so clearly why marriage between a man and a woman must be upheld. Our society must consider the consequences to children of redefining marriage. I am also an advocate for social justice AND marriage between a man and a woman. Well said!

ordinaryfolks
seattle, WA

If you are going to quote studies, you should quote them without selectivity. Recent studies of children raised in stable same sex households don't show adverse outcomes. You are being intellectually dishonest by not citing them in your opinion.

Also, lets talk about gender roles. Modern marriages do not all conform to traditional male and female roles. There are men who are the care givers to children of the marriage. Do the children in this arrangement suffer? Where is the research on this, and does it not need to be mentioned? Be intellectually honest.

In same sex marriages, the parties must establish new roles for the household. Choices are made by couple, and nothing is necessarily held to strict gender roles (can't be). Men are certainly capable of providing the emotional support that a mother can provide. And a woman can coach a team as well as can her male neighbor. We have evolved. Try to be intellectually honest.

So, it appears you have an intellectual blind side that refuses to even evaluate evidence to the contrary of your natural disposition. That is not the scientific method, nor is it honest scholarship.

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

This author's opinion will actually hold water once he writes a follow up article in which he advocates for the passage of laws that immediately remove all children from the custody of parents when the parents get a divorce. Clearly, if the most ideal situation in this author's mind cannot be met then it will be nothing at all - social justice inverted. Also, the author must explain to us his reasons for opposing adoption by single parents. Until that time: pure hypocrisy. There is no existing law that gives non-existent future children the "right" to a mother and father - it's fictitious, made up... while the right to marry is fundamental under the COTUS - when "future" children's non-existent right goes up in court against actual people's actual rights to marry, guess who wins? Oh, and what about SSM couples that just want to be married but don't want kids?

DesNews - You do realize this position has been soundly rejected by the court systems and has literally no sway in the SSM debate? Perhaps, in the future, hold off on publishing anti-family rhetoric until the author has overcome his/her own cognitive dissonance.

nmgirl
Los Alamos, NM

Great article!! That was so clear and well-spoken. I totally agree. Thank goodness for common sense!

Karen R.
Houston, TX

Translation: "When I stand on my head and twist this way, my argument looks like the righteous one!"

I hope the author has a better defense for his Ph.D. dissertation. One suggestion: Stay away from discredited research.

Tiago
Seattle, WA

Regardless of laws, there will always be gay people in committed relationships and some of them will have children.

In the DOMA case, Justice Kennedy said that law "humiliates tens of thousands of children now being raised by same-sex couples... The law in question makes it even more difficult for the children to understand the integrity and closeness of their own family and its concord with other families in their community and in their daily lives."

I personally know a young gay couple and an older lesbian couple each raising children born to unmarried mothers in their extended families. These couples had the love and resources to provide for those children and keep the child in the extended family close to the biological mother. Would it be better for these children to have been sent to other families?

A close friend has always known he was gay. He married a woman trying to do what was right and had two beautiful children. His wife tragically passed away. He will not enter another mixed orientation marriage, but would consider marrying a man. Is it better for these children for their father to remain single forever?

BJMoose
Syracuse, UT

Same inane generalizations.
Referencing one source from 16 years ago that seems to fit the position being stated.(By the way this is the only source listed in the entire op-ed.)
Saying "that children of same-sex parents, once grown, have significantly poorer physical and mental health and lower educational outcomes than children from intact biological families." Where are the references proving this?
Saying "Legalizing gay marriage implicitly requires the government, public schools and the media to perpetuate the narrative that homosexual couples provide the same benefits to children that a married mother and father provide to biological children. This is simply not the case." Again what proof do you offer to back this up?
"Decades of scientific research show", what research? References please.
"Other studies have showed" (shown?), what studies. Again references please.
This op-ed is just another one in a long line that offers no substance only an opinion. More desperation for a cause with ever dwindling support.

liberal larry
salt lake City, utah

Some studies show that about 5% of the populous is gay. Out of this number how many do you think will want to get married?

And then out of that percentage how many will have children?

Is it really worth predicting the collapse of western civilization over a "problem" that could affect one or two percent of the America's marriages?

Maybe we should use more of our collective outrage over children damaged by divorce, hunger, and lack of proper healthcare.

E Sam
Provo, UT

When I was working on my PhD, I was expected to cite the most recent, and most comprehensive studies in the field, not older, largely discredited studies. In this case, the more relevant research was very recently published by Dr. Simon Crouch, at the University of Melbourne. It concludes that children in same sex families fare significantly better than children in the general population. May I suggest that the DN publish an op-ed piece citing this new Australian research?

Ranch
Here, UT

"The children, born and unborn, who will reap the consequences of current political choices."

--- Pray tell, what would be those dire consequence of which you speak? Equality for all Americans? Oh, woe is society when Equality is a negative "consequence".

"Decades of scientific research show that children need both a mother and a father. "

--- Repeatedly debunked.

How does preventing LGBT couples from marrying encourage opposite sex couples to actually marry and raise children? That is a question you anti-marriage folks (yes, you are actually anti-marriage) never, ever answer.

"Traditional adoption makes the best of an unfortunate situation for a child. But when same-sex couples create children through artificial reproductive technology, they create a separation between the child and his or her parents. "

How is that any different than a straight couple doing the same thing? It still separates the child from one or more of it's parents.

Ranch
Here, UT

"...deprive children of their most foundational relationships without any consent from the children."

What about children born in poverty, did they "consent" to being born into that family/situation? What about children born into abusive households, did they "consent" to being born into that family situation? This OPED failes to address these situations, they seem to be perfectly dandy, but God Forbid a child be raised, without it's "consent" by two loving parents who happen to be the same gender.

"David Hunsaker is a marriage advocate and Ph.D student at the University of Utah."

David Hunsaker is NOT a marriage advocate. He is an anti-marriage advocate.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Every gay couple I know,
already had kids from previous heterosexual marriages that failed.

Like the Brady Bunch -
only this time with a
Mike and Ike,
or
Carol and Caroline.

Are you saying that those kids should be denied being a "Family"?

BTW --
Kudos for the plug on Social Justice,
now
prepare for the dog-pile by the Tea-Partiers.

nonceleb
Salt Lake City, UT

Artificial reproductive technology? Gays both bear and sire children from the normal processes. The low estimate is that there are at least 300,000 children in same-sex partner households in America. As many states ban adoptions by gay couples, a small percentage are from adoptions. Most of these children were produced from prior sexual relationships (yes, many homosexuals have tried to live a heterosexual lifestyle) or even seek out conception while within a same-sex partnership. I personally know a woman who has twice sought out donation (sexually) from the same man and gave birth to two girls. She has a female partner. Would not these children fare better if they were in a two-parent family with the protections and benefits of marriage? Preventing those partners from marriage is forcing those children into what is the legal equivalent of a single-parent family.

ReallyTallGuy
Payson, UT

I believe the author's intent was to show that his beliefs ARE supported by studies, and the fact that humans have existed for thousands of years in traditional families adds to the cause. Marriage in all aspects is being redefined and regardless of what is said about it, the whole thing is a big experiment. It's disappointing to see so much disrespectful dialog on this subject; no wonder so many people are quiet about their support of traditional marriage.
Anyway, I also support marriage between one man and one woman and I'm not ashamed of it. Well said, David Hunsaker!

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Children do best when raised by their married biological mother and father.

That's why I was encouraged when a decade ago Utah voters overwhelmingly passed Proposition 4, that outlawed divorce. I was pleased when Utahns poured millions of dollars into California's Prop 9 campaign to eliminate divorce there as well. I was ecstatic to see the bakers and photographers rally to withhold their services from divorcees (un-Biblical, they said). Even the pregnancy resource centers stopped advising girls to put their babies up for adoption and the adoption brokers closed shop.

Oh, wait--none of that happened.

Gays make up about 5% of the population (plus or minus). One in three or four gay couples have children, so maybe 1-2% of kids are in gay households. Straights constitute the balance, and about half of straight marriages end in divorce, so figure 40-48% of kids are in broken homes.

Simple math suggests that the greatest return on investment for improving child welfare comes from reining in divorce rates and improving straight family function. SSM has a trivial effect on overall child welfare. So why the vastly disproportionate political effort against SSM?

SLMom
SLC, UT

Fantastic article! The author did a great job defending children. Some situations that children are in we cannot control, but the author does a good job explaining how this policy is one place we can defend children's rights.

factoid
Ogden, UT

Great article. It brings back common sense to a nation reeling with social trends.

As someone who has spent most of his life in the academic world, and heavily involved in scientific research myself, I know it's difficult to find sources that are not biased in some form. Hence, no matter what research is quoted, I would question the motives of the research and how strong the correlations are. The closer we get to the edge of man's understanding, the muddier things become and less clearly we understand. I say this simply to state that in my opinion, the research is still pretty shaky in both directions.

Hence, each of us will have to rely on common sense and our own conscience until the waters clear. And my conscience says that procreation is important to mankind, natural procreation only happens between a man and a woman, and we should advocate such unions.

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