To "Open Minded Mormon" yes, and you voted for one of the biggest liars
in history and keep telling us that his lies are not lies.Who is
worse, the liar or the person who defends the lies of the liar?
Emerger Magna, Salt Lake, UTIn my opinion, we still have
a government "of the people" because “We the People”,
collectively speaking, are the ones who voted for the corrupt politicians. They
didn’t elect themselves; we sent them there to represent us! ======= And how many times have you watched a Politician SAY one
thing to get elected, and the DO the complete and polar opposite once
elections are over?THAT is called -- Say anything to get
elected -by the people - but the Devil will call right after to collect
his soul!They are all sold to the highest bidder, and the
Bidder is their new Master Mahan.
I believe that most of the comments that have been made have missed the real
point of this discussion. Rather than stating the true CAUSE of the problem,
most of the comments have stated only SYMPTOMS of the actual underlying problem,
which is how we vote. In my opinion, we still have a government
"of the people" because “We the People”, collectively
speaking, are the ones who voted for the corrupt politicians. They didn’t
elect themselves; we sent them there to represent us! Unless and until the
people of this nation start voting for people who will serve us with honesty and
integrity, we will continue to find ourselves burdened with a corrupt and evil
Good letter today, short and to the point. Judges have taken government and
freedom away from the people. They often rule and make rules that have nothing
to do with constitutional principles. Since the gay promoters have determined
that is what this letter is about lets get into it. Some arbitrary theory about
equal treatment is the claim that gay promoters and their sympathizers go on
about. That's a joke. We have dozens of issues where there is not equal
treatment, what makes the gay crowd so special? Over a hundred years ago,
polygamists were denied equal treatment. Sorry no sympathy for the
crybabies who wish to limit freedom of speech. Corruption and paying off
candidates existed long before the free speech ruling. Both sides do it. Special
parties, junkets, and money contributed to candidates campaigns have little to
do with the Citizens United ruling. Those situations have existed for decades.
Redshirt, Ultra Bob and Tyler made my point so I won't repeat what they
just said. Let me just make one point.I just finished reading a New
York Times article about a group of reform minded Republicans. After finishing
the article there were two things clear. One, is that reform simply means they
want a Repbulican party that actually suggests policies rather than just saying
NO. Regardless of how you cut it and slice it that is the policy of the current
Repbulican party. Two is that all of their policies have as a basis unlimited
belief in the virtue of the "free market".Regardless of your
belief in markets, you will not change my life experiences that includes living
around the world, working at and with executive level poistions of major corps.,
and an advance degree in econonmics, that tells me unfettered markets tend to
monopolies, and economic tyranny of the masses. Regulated markets
can produce wealth and justice.
to RedshirtI don't disagree w/ today's 12:54p post. It IMO
has more to do w/ who actually works in Gov't. Odds are it a bunch of well
meaning idealists. When they get disillusioned, all bets are and ethics tend to
break down as well.I agree w/ your post at 1:50 p today. Its a shame
we have gotten away from Jefferson's vision.
Atlas SmashedSanta Monica, CAGovernment corruption has little to do
with size.It has everything to do with dirty money.Sadly, many today call dirty money a form of free speech.Shame on
those who do that! Shame on those activist Supreme Court judges who declared
bribery a form of free speech!3:29 p.m. July 15, 2014=========== Amen and Amen!Agreed, You beat me to it!It doesn't matter if it's a one sheriff town, or One World Government.You can BUY anything in this world, with
money!It's horrible that the SCOTUS legalized it, Sadder
still when Book of Mormon reading/believeing Latter-Day Saints support and
RedBird asks " How corrupt could a corporation be if government was small
and focused on defending the people, enforcing contracts, and upholding the
law"?If the government focused on defending the people would it
be from all enemies foreign and domestic? Would domestic enemies include all
sorts of violent criminals, cheaters, fraud, etc.?Would upholding
the law apply to all laws, regulations and rules? Even those which protect
people from unscrupulous businessmen?The corporations that I have
worked for stay just inside the law. If you remove the enforcement of the law,
there would be no limit to the corporate corruption. The United
Nations is a weak world government, it cannot prevent the corruption between
nations. If the US government becomes weak and unable to control our states,
America will mirror the world.
To "JoeBlow" you are missing the key component. The power of government
does not have to do with how many people are part of it. The power of
government is about what they can and cannot do to you. Some of the most
corrupt governments have few people running them. But, all of those corrupt
governments have limitless or nearly limitless power over their people.Think North Korea or Cuba. Both are very corrupt, and have few in charge, but
they have immense power over the people.Try and think about this
again, but in place of number of people in government think about how much power
those people in government have over your life.To "Ultra
Bob" I will kindly disagree with you. Lets compare two business, one is a
private business, the other is government run. Lets compare Comcast Internet to
the Utopia project. Comcast built their service using private money, and expand
only as the market allows. Utopia connections cost just as much, but the
company keeps getting reorganized and is now looking to tax everybody to pay for
the system.Now tell me, which is more corrupt, the business or the
"And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity,
then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the
time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited
this land." (Mosiah 29:27)Now substitute "corporations"
for "people" in the above passage (SCOTUS says they are equivalent), and
see if you wouldn't conclude that this land is ripe for some well-earned
@RedShirt – “How corrupt could a corporation be if government was
small… ?”You mean if government wasn’t there to
regulate pollution, safety, product quality, stop monopolies, and generally
protect consumers from the countless ways corporations try and shaft them? Should we try it and see?Oh wait, we did that… it was
called the Gilded Age. Can you imagine what our environment would look like
today had we allowed that laissez faire model to continue all the way into the
21st century?And regarding your comment on the LDS Church Obama
article (since I’m out of comments there), I see you’re just going
to double down on the right-wing spin.You’re confusing the
timeline of events with the facts surrounding those events. Let me say it again
– the ACA had NOTHING to do with the annual budget process! What the House
did would be analogous to 80’s Dems telling Reagan “we’ll fund
the government but only if you agree to restore some tax rates the last Congress
reduced (ya know, by vote).”We have never governed by these
hostage tactics, but by all means enjoy your kool-aid.
RedShirt is right. Government has the ability to decide who gets to be rich.
Thus government is subject to every kind of kind of influence, both proper and
improper. The fallacy in the conservative argument is that limiting
government doesn't make the bad people go away, it actually gives them more
opportunities to work their evil. Example, the government grades
wheat by how much foreign material is mixed in with the crop. Really clean
wheat sells for a higher price than dirty wheat and makes better bread. If you
take away the governments ability to apply grades to the wheat, the farmers
would be lax about growing their wheat. The same thing applies to almost
everything consumed. The unscrupulous people who would bribe and
corrupt our government are the people who would make, sell, and disguise the
lack of quality in their product.
Government corruption has little to do with size.It has everything
to do with dirty money.Sadly, many today call dirty money a form of
free speech.Shame on those who do that! Shame on those activist
Supreme Court judges who declared bribery a form of free speech!
"If the government is limited in its power, then the ability to corrupt
government is also limited. "By that logic, countries run by a
king would not be corrupt. Logic = fail.Power corrupts. Our
elected officials wield much power. What bothers me most is that in
our government, the corruption is legal.
To "pragmatistferlife" and my point is made.What do you
think. If a government's powers were very limited, how corrupt could it
ever be? Now, if a government had nearly limitless powers, how corrupt could it
be?How corrupt could a corporation be if government was small and
focused on defending the people, enforcing contracts, and upholding the law?Think about those points long and hard, then get back to us and let us
know what you think. Now, DO NOT stray from the issue, which is the more power
government has the more corrupt is gets.
Redshirt: your position only makes sense if government is the only source of
corruption in the world. Unfortunalely that is not true."As
government gains power, it becomes more and more corrupt."Unfortunately as anything gains power it can trend to corruption. Clearly
economic power breeds massive corruption and evel along with any good it may do.
Thus government is the only force big enough to conuter economic corruption and
civil corruption. It's a dance not a march.
"and judges who go against the will of the people."Who in th
world think it's a judges duty to rule on "with the will of the
people"A judges duty is to rule on the legality and
constitutionality of a law. Ridiculous.
What is really funny about the liberals here is that they can't put 1 and 1
together.Lets look at why governments get corrupted.They
do so because the government wields great power, and can influence business and
society. The larger government is, the more power there is to gain through
bribery and deceit.If the government is limited in its power, then
the ability to corrupt government is also limited. Now, as the power of
government is expanded, the ease and ability to corrupt that government
increases. People will find a way to use that power for the personal gain.Now, liberals see the corruption, and figure that the problem isn't
that there is too much power for sale. They figure that they just don't
have the right people in power or else that there isn't enough power given
to the government. As government gains power, it becomes more and more
corrupt.Now, the liberals probably won't believe me, but lets
just take a look at the NSA. It started out as a small organization looking at
intelligence reports. We have given them more power over us, and they are now
corrupt. See the correlation?
@VIDARWhat if at the next presidential election; we voted all current
representatives out?Sweep the house clean, and start with new people. I
realize it would take a couple elections due to the senate elections being off
year.But, in two years we could have all new people.But it will
never happen. Not when people are more interested in TV, or other recreations,
than in what happens in their country.I respect your opinion.I might add it seems we are willing to stick with our guy no matter how
crazy he acts/votes.The problem seems to always be with the other
guy representing the other party.
Yeah our first lady wants to ban the word "Bossy". What a free country
we live in.
I think it is important to remember that citizens still have the greatest power
over the system, and that is the vote.Voter apathy is most to blame for
the current problems in our system.If everyone voted, and made our
representatives more accountable, it would improve our system.What if at
the next presidential election; we voted all current representatives out?Sweep the house clean, and start with new people. I realize it would take a
couple elections due to the senate elections being off year.But, in two
years we could have all new people.But it will never happen. Not when
people are more interested in TV, or other recreations, than in what happens in
Ah, Russ, those judges going against the "will of the people" are just
trying to protect the freedom of the people you don't like and whom you
would deny freedom to.Personally, (if I believed) I'd thank God
for those judges.
The sad truth is that we have never had government of the people, by the people,
for the people and will not until the people are able to control their
government. The only way people have in controlling their government is the
vote, and the political republicans of all parties have put too many roadblocks
to the public vote. The political republicans, not to be confused
with the republican party, are those who insist on America being a republic and
not allowing democracy to exist. A typical political republican would be a
person who has installed himself is a position of power and wealth and would
limit or prevent any change that would threaten his position. All
adult and otherwise independent Americans should be encouraged, even mandated,
to participate in selecting their government and its policies. All at
government expense with strict prohibition of participation of the influence of
any entity other than individual American persons.
"Rather we have bureaucrats, special interest groups and judges who go
against the will of the people". Indeed, we have a state vehemently trying
to usurp the rights of the people and judges giving religious rights to
corporations at the expense of citizens.
Work to put limits on or reform the campaign finance system. Ban gifts, trips,
etc. by lobbying groups, regardless of the amount. Overturn Supreme Court
decisions giving corporations special rights to influence elections and the
dialogue. Let's have public financing of elections. These reforms will be
a good place to start. Work for this, dear letter writer, and what you pine for
will start to return. The problem we face has been led by conservatives,
beginning with their assault on McCain-Feingold and the Citizens United.
Conservatives have led the charge on the erosion of our system. Are you willing
to even acknowledge that?
"Corporations are people, my friend."- Mitt RomneyAnd you act surprised when we the people aren't represented?
Government of, by, and for the people takes on a whole different meaning when
you read "people" as including corporations. Somehow I don't think
that's what Lincoln meant.
We no longer have a republic, we have an oligarchy. I lay the blame for that at
the feet of conservatives who think that corporations deserve Bill of Rights
protections, but that women, the poor, children, and the elderly do not.As for judges, "the will of the people," only works well when
there are judges who know and apply the constitution to prevent democracy from
becoming mob rule.
Will someone get me my violin? Sorry Russ, but you donated your government to
the corporate world in the 1980's and haven't looked back. I'm
looking to incorporate in order to have the same rights as Hobby Lobby. All the
perks with none of the liability.
WE have government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the
corporations, that is the real problem.
Russ needs to study American history. We are a Republic where the majority does
not always rule. The recent laws that have been overturned by many educated and
knowledgeable judges has shown me that this country still believes in rights for
all citizens, not just an uneducated majority.
Let us just reiterate the logic problem of this comment.We are not a
pure democracy. We are a constitutional republic. As the LTE is no
doubt aware (when it suits their purposes), we have a document that enumerates
the form and substance of the government. Laws may not be written that violate
this document. This dog whistle call of "people's
rights" being violated by the negation of a referendum in Utah is an angry
cry by a misled mentality. The vote of the people of Utah to ban same sex
marriage (for that is indeed what prompted this screed) violated the US
Constitution in various ways. Unless, or until, we decide that the
Judiciary is not allowed to rule on the constitutionality of law, this is the
way things work. If you don't like it, submit a constitutional amendment
and work to get it passed.
"Rather we have bureaucrats, special interest groups and judges who go
against the will of the people."Lets look at why that is.Bureaucrats are paid (bribed that is) to protect the interests of those
who pay them.Special Interest groups pay bureaucrats to, well, er, protect
their special interest.Judges, hopefully are tied to the rule of law
and the constitution and should not be focused on "the will of the
people". So, Russ, unless you are for restricting corporate,
union and other special interest money that taints how our bureaucrats govern,
how will things change?
What can you expect when you legalize bribery as "free speech"?Why public financed elections hasn't gained more traction in this country
is beyond me. It appears as if we're content with special interest groups
buying off our "representatives."Like your Swallows,
Shurtleffs, Lockharts, Nixons, Cheneys, and Bushs? Like being punished for being
middle-class and not born into the 1 percent, like Mitt? Like RMP attacking you
for going green? Keep the system the same and keep voting the same way.
1. 6 years of Sour Grapes.President Obama won TWICE!Majority, get
it?2. I'm not happy Mike Lee, Orrin Hatch, and Rob Bishop
represent "me", but you won't see guys like me writing
letters to the editor, or whining about it daily for 37 years.3. FYI
-- President Obama has a 54% approval rating, Congress has a 9% approval
"Rather we have bureaucrats, special interest groups and judges who go
against the will of the people."My first question is: the will
of what people? My second question is: are bureaucrats, special interest
groups, and judges the only people moving against their will?"The people" are the aggregate of individuals. These individuals want
a wide variety of things. Some want better paying jobs. Some want a job. Some
want same sex marriage. Some want to prevent same sex marriage. Individuals
want a wide variety of things. In this they are opposed by judges or supported
by judges depending on their views. Those who want better paying jobs or jobs
in general are opposed by corporations who have invested in China instead of the
United States. So the writer needs to include corporations in his list of
opponents.Some individuals want self-regulating capitalism. Others
want some degree of socialism. There are supporters and opponents of each.Has anything "perished" to use Lincoln's language? We
still have traditional marriage. We still have jobs, but of a deteriorating
quality. We still have a middle class, but it is under stress, as is the
environment. The writer should broaden his focus.
Translation: Conservative males no longer get to dictate everything and gay
marriage will soon be legal. Wah.