Shooter was apparently jealous of 2 acquainted with ex-girlfriend
Folks here have to get past the tool used in these Homicides here in Utah and
around the country.. For the folks who have taken time to research
and become educated about firearms, you will quickly learn that the facts are
distorted in the Media. These chances of survival comments are a waste of time
as there are to many factors involved, just a month ago a Layton woman stabbed
to death in her garage, in front of her son. Her 20 year estranged husband,,
later caught in Tooele was the guilty party.. Some folks here think
we have a gun problem in America,, well,, there are definitely folks getting
killed with guns, nobody will debate it but has anyone wondered why the Media
is infatuated with guns.. Very little reporting is done when it is a knife, bat,
other weapon, hands and fists.. Folks, guns, knives, bats, other instruments
used to kill do not motivate the killer to act. The individual makes that
decision and incase you have not been paying attention,, the majority of thee
killers have phycological issues. We do not have a gun problem,
numbers over 30 years show it in decline,,FBI,, WE HAVE A CRAZY,, PROBLEM !
She did leave. It was an ex girlfriend.
First of all I want to express my condolences to the families and friends that
know those who have been killed by this man. I also express this for the family
of the Shooter!With that being said: Far more lives have been saved due to
one carrying guns than the number of lives that are take by those who abuse the
right to bare arms and it is not even close! This means that guns are used 80
times more often to save lives than to take one in cold blood! The numbers do
not lie as further statistics prove this! It is a shame that it takes a
tragedy like this to have this much needed debate for us to be able to maintain
this very important right to bare arms! Again I express my condolences to the
families and friends of the victims involved.
Doctors don't kill people. They just make it real easy.Let's get real, if the guy comes in with a knife or rocks, the chance of
survival is much higher than with a doctor.You are 64 times more
likely to be killed by a doctor than by someone wielding a gun. That’s
because 19,766 of the total 31,940 gun deaths in the USA (in the year 2011) were
suicides. So the actual number of deaths from other people shooting you is only
12,174. Doctors, comparatively, kill 783,936 people each year, which
is 64 times higher than 12,174. Doctors shoot you not with bullets, but with
vaccines, chemotherapy and pharmaceuticals… all of which turn out to be
FAR more deadly than guns. Someone soon should wake up and realize
that this country has a huge problem and we are totally ignoring it.
I've said before, I'm not against gun rights per se. But to me, with
any freedom or rights comes responsibility. Not only responsibility at an
individual level but a collective level. The collective responsibility might be
to do more about helping the mentally ill get services. It might be doing a bit
more to prevent guns from getting into the hands of the mentally ill or those
who have been involved with domestic violence. Perhaps before government gets
involved, perhaps family members can intervene. I would also suggest that gun
rights advocates stop going into restaurants packing AK-47's. This to me
does not send a good message and I don't feel any more secure with this guy
in the restaurant. These are complicated issues. As far as our value
system goes, I guess I'll go with the argument in above posts. Perhaps the
American people are NOT special. Perhaps, based on our violence rates and our
gun violence rates, we are truly a "sick" culture, no longer
"superior" to anyone else. But I doubt this comforts the Right.So is it a gun problem, culture problem or some combination of both?
The primary problem with guns is that you can't wait until the shooter
raises the gun. That is too late you are dead. You have to kill the gun toter
FIRST. So when is it ok to kill the person with the gun? We simply have to
kill anyone with a gun who could kill us.
Someone soon should wake up a realize that this country has a huge problem and
we are totally ignoring it thanks to the NRA and the "do nothing"
Congress. When did we start dealing with the loss of a girlfriend as an excuse
to kill her and her boyfriend. What a pitiful country we have become. Not much
"love they neighbor here!" When I was their age and a relationship
didn't work out I picked myself up, brushed myself off and moved on. Today
as a young woman I would be frightened to get into any relationship because if
it ended badly, he might come shoot me! My goodness, where has reality and
I look forward to the day when the perpetrators of murder-suicides simply forgo
the first step and proceed directly to the suicide. Better yet, they forgo the
second step as well and proceed directly to a mental health professional.Not that two data points make a trend, but we have seen two cases of
domestic violence recently that escalated to multiple murders beyond the main
object of the perpetrator's rage. What gives?The headlines are
full of domestic violence, from the Alta View Hospital siege to Susan Powell to
the latest killings in Texas and Ogden. Could the DesNews do an analysis to see
if rates are higher here than elsewhere.@Tumbleweed- You might try
asking Adam Lanza's mother how effective guns in the home are for personal
protection. No, you can't.
Has anyone considered the social environment that we have created for the past
several decades as a factor in this tragedy?Young people have been
coddled and hovered over and fretted about their self esteem to the point that
they have not experienced failure and do not know how to deal with it. It appears to me that a young lady is no longer interested in a young
man, and has other suitors. The young man does not know how to deal with being
"Dumped" so he thinks it's the end of the/his world and wants to
kill everyone involved. This scenario has played itself out in the
pages of the DesNews and other papers for years. How many ex-husbands,
ex-live-ins, or your basic creepy ex-boyfriends get walking papers and return to
kill the woman and or children. Yeah maybe computer games and
violent movies egg the guy on but to me it appears that men, especially, do not
know how to deal with rejection and failure other than striking out.Perhaps we need less "Most Improved Camper" awards and more mentoring
of young people on how to deal with life's down moments.
Some problems just cannot be fixed.Forget the gun control debate and
the (as yet barely touched on) "soldiers are all psycho killers"
meme.This sort of disgusting criminal act happens dozens of times
every day, where some rejected suitor snaps and gets revenge on their (his or
her) former love interest and their new flame. It happens with all sorts of
instruments, including just burning down buildings, running people down with
cars, knives, poison and simply hands and feet as weapons. It is violence
committed by either gender, occurs among all racial and religious backgrounds,
veterans and draft dodgers alike.Some people are just unable to
control their emotions and kill others. It is horrible, wrong and devastating
to those involved, and their families. But, it is not something likely to stop
if we just pass one more law. After all, murder was banned by one of the first
ten laws of civilized people, and we have added tens of thousands more laws
since Moses came down from the mount, and none have prevented criminal acts.We can only punish the guilty afterwards, except when they choose to
kill themselves as well as their victims.
Yes, guns don't kill people, but only to the extent that they don't
jump off the wall and start blazing away by themselves. It's the ready
availability of guns that makes it so easy for people to use them against each
other.Let's not forget that until he started shooting, this guy
was one of the "good guys with a gun" that the NRA says we need more of.
Utahns should never think they don't have the very same problems and issues
as other places in this country. Sometimes I think people think Utah is
different or better, sticking their heads in the sand.
Tumbleweed, the claims about "defensive gun use" have been debunked time
and time again. Please do some real research and try to learn the truth.
"Tolman, Peterson said, "made a poor choice" in dealing with
it." Ya Think? That's about the stupidest statement I have ever read
when describing what lead up to a homicide.
I am a Logan native. These type of violence is not supposed to happen in small
town America. What a tragedy. This is really about anger more than guns.
TumbleweedNo doubt there are times when guns help defend people. I
don't think it would have mattered here. A guy comes barging in the house
with a rifle. You would barely have time to assess what is going on before he
started shooting. And a handgun against a rifle is a poor bet. Yes, better then
nothing, but odds are in this situation it wouldn't have mattered.
Now can we talk about domestic violence? Now can we ask women to leave
situations the first time they are uncomfortable and for men to not hurt or
abuse women? Now can we ask women to not taunt and insult men until they lash
out physically? Now can we remind both genders that jealousy isn't pretty?
@HowardAnd perhaps had one of the two victims had a concealed weapon
or at least a gun in the house, the outcome would have been different. There
are a lot more defensive uses of a gun each year than murders - 10 times or
more. If you only look at the detriments of gun ownership and not the benefits,
you get a skewed picture.
Mr. Beal,Your point that it's easier with a gun is legitimate,
but to make the assumption that is doesn't happen with a knife is pure
conjecture.The real problem in our country is values. Do we really
think we can feed a steady diet of violence through music, movies, TV and video
games, have pornography available on demand 24/7, more and more children born
out of wedlock, the family in decline where values should be taught and expect
there will be no impact on society? It isn't the weapon, but the thoughts
that proceed the use of the weapon. God bless these families that
were impacted. This is a terrible tragedy snuffing out young lives that could
have been a great blessing to others for many years to come.
What has the killer being a guards person got to do with this story?
cjb:Maybe we are murderous people in the U.S. because our murder
rate is incredible. Or maybe the gun situation fits in there a bit. I wonder
if those murders in Texas happen if a knife or rocks or Mrs. White in the study
with a candlestick is involved. I'm sure the fact that he had a gun helped
him subdue the family until the tragic decision to shoot them. Again, those
murders don't happen with a knife. Facts are facts...
Guns don't kill people. Cocaine doesn't kill people. If someone wants
to get cocaine, they will find a way. There were plenty of deaths long before
cocaine. If you ban cocaine, people will still be able to get it. Just like
@ Ranch HandGuns don't kill people. Same with ice cream, pork rinds
or alcohol. In the wrong hands anything can be abused and deadly.
Re Howard BeakIf someone wishes to murder, they will find a way.
There were plenty of murders long before there were guns. Back then only the
strong and the skillful could with high confidence defend themselves.
My deepest sympathies go out to the families of all three. So much wasted
potential and so much hurt.Saying we have a gun problem equates to
saying we have an automobile problem. Or an alcohol problem. When you put
alcohol and driving together, the results are much more deadly than when you put
guns and ammo together. The ratio of fatalities is likely much higher for the
alcohol-automobile combination.Actually, I agree that we have an alcohol
problem. It kills many more than guns and ammo.In this case, as in many
such cases, we are just as likely to discover a symptom not frequently
discussed: the constant emasculation of our young men by a feminized society
that has gotten away from teaching things such as accountability,
responsibility, respect, and honor. There is not a single, simple solution but
perhaps this is where we should begin.
Let's get real, if the guy comes in with a knife or rocks, the chance of
survival is much higher. Not saying I'm against gun rights but we have to
say we have a gun problem in our country.
Guns don't kill people. They just make it real easy. Hammers, rocks and
knives also don't kill people. They just take a great deal more time,
strength, skill and effort to complete the task. And they are much more
difficult to use if there are multiple intended targets. This is
certainly a tragic event. Three lives taken and many more impacted in just a
god bless these young people.
Ranch Hand, one of our best liberals brought it up.I'd like to
see the perpetrators psych profile from the Army. This is so sad. They need to
dig into this and try to figure out why this happened.
Most rocks don't kill people either..just saying..
Can we please refrain from a pointless re-hashing of the gun control debate?
To Ranch handYou're right, guns don't kill people.Bullets do.And knives, and bare hands and pillows and
hammers etc etc.
@ RaunchHand:You got that one right. Guns don't kill people.
It's the people who pull their triggers that do. It's just like
with cars. Cars don't kill people. It's the drunk drivers behind their
steering wheels who do. It doesn't take rocket science to make
the proper assimilation... just common sense.
Guns don't kill people....
What's up with all the shootings in Logan lately? Third one this summer.
The first address given in this article is practically on campus. Wow.