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Guardsman kills 2 in Logan rampage, then shoots himself, police say

Shooter was apparently jealous of 2 acquainted with ex-girlfriend

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  • Michael-D Riverton, UT
    July 16, 2014 12:47 a.m.

    Folks here have to get past the tool used in these Homicides here in Utah and around the country..

    For the folks who have taken time to research and become educated about firearms, you will quickly learn that the facts are distorted in the Media. These chances of survival comments are a waste of time as there are to many factors involved, just a month ago a Layton woman stabbed to death in her garage, in front of her son. Her 20 year estranged husband,, later caught in Tooele was the guilty party..

    Some folks here think we have a gun problem in America,, well,, there are definitely folks getting killed with guns, nobody will debate it but has anyone wondered why the Media is infatuated with guns.. Very little reporting is done when it is a knife, bat, other weapon, hands and fists.. Folks, guns, knives, bats, other instruments used to kill do not motivate the killer to act. The individual makes that decision and incase you have not been paying attention,, the majority of thee killers have phycological issues.

    We do not have a gun problem, numbers over 30 years show it in decline,,FBI,, WE HAVE A CRAZY,, PROBLEM !

  • K Mchenry, IL
    July 15, 2014 12:48 p.m.

    She did leave. It was an ex girlfriend.

  • Jazzfan1175 Tooele, UT
    July 15, 2014 12:36 p.m.

    First of all I want to express my condolences to the families and friends that know those who have been killed by this man. I also express this for the family of the Shooter!
    With that being said: Far more lives have been saved due to one carrying guns than the number of lives that are take by those who abuse the right to bare arms and it is not even close! This means that guns are used 80 times more often to save lives than to take one in cold blood! The numbers do not lie as further statistics prove this!
    It is a shame that it takes a tragedy like this to have this much needed debate for us to be able to maintain this very important right to bare arms! Again I express my condolences to the families and friends of the victims involved.

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    July 15, 2014 12:34 p.m.

    Doctors don't kill people. They just make it real easy.

    Let's get real, if the guy comes in with a knife or rocks, the chance of survival is much higher than with a doctor.

    You are 64 times more likely to be killed by a doctor than by someone wielding a gun. That’s because 19,766 of the total 31,940 gun deaths in the USA (in the year 2011) were suicides. So the actual number of deaths from other people shooting you is only 12,174.

    Doctors, comparatively, kill 783,936 people each year, which is 64 times higher than 12,174. Doctors shoot you not with bullets, but with vaccines, chemotherapy and pharmaceuticals… all of which turn out to be FAR more deadly than guns.

    Someone soon should wake up and realize that this country has a huge problem and we are totally ignoring it.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    July 15, 2014 12:13 p.m.

    I've said before, I'm not against gun rights per se. But to me, with any freedom or rights comes responsibility. Not only responsibility at an individual level but a collective level. The collective responsibility might be to do more about helping the mentally ill get services. It might be doing a bit more to prevent guns from getting into the hands of the mentally ill or those who have been involved with domestic violence. Perhaps before government gets involved, perhaps family members can intervene. I would also suggest that gun rights advocates stop going into restaurants packing AK-47's. This to me does not send a good message and I don't feel any more secure with this guy in the restaurant.

    These are complicated issues. As far as our value system goes, I guess I'll go with the argument in above posts. Perhaps the American people are NOT special. Perhaps, based on our violence rates and our gun violence rates, we are truly a "sick" culture, no longer "superior" to anyone else. But I doubt this comforts the Right.

    So is it a gun problem, culture problem or some combination of both?

  • Professor Emeritus Bethesda , MD
    July 15, 2014 11:53 a.m.

    The primary problem with guns is that you can't wait until the shooter raises the gun. That is too late you are dead. You have to kill the gun toter FIRST. So when is it ok to kill the person with the gun? We simply have to kill anyone with a gun who could kill us.

  • LittleStream Carson City, NV
    July 15, 2014 10:10 a.m.

    Someone soon should wake up a realize that this country has a huge problem and we are totally ignoring it thanks to the NRA and the "do nothing" Congress. When did we start dealing with the loss of a girlfriend as an excuse to kill her and her boyfriend. What a pitiful country we have become. Not much "love they neighbor here!" When I was their age and a relationship didn't work out I picked myself up, brushed myself off and moved on. Today as a young woman I would be frightened to get into any relationship because if it ended badly, he might come shoot me! My goodness, where has reality and compassion gone?

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2014 8:44 a.m.

    I look forward to the day when the perpetrators of murder-suicides simply forgo the first step and proceed directly to the suicide. Better yet, they forgo the second step as well and proceed directly to a mental health professional.

    Not that two data points make a trend, but we have seen two cases of domestic violence recently that escalated to multiple murders beyond the main object of the perpetrator's rage. What gives?

    The headlines are full of domestic violence, from the Alta View Hospital siege to Susan Powell to the latest killings in Texas and Ogden. Could the DesNews do an analysis to see if rates are higher here than elsewhere.

    @Tumbleweed- You might try asking Adam Lanza's mother how effective guns in the home are for personal protection. No, you can't.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2014 8:34 a.m.

    Has anyone considered the social environment that we have created for the past several decades as a factor in this tragedy?

    Young people have been coddled and hovered over and fretted about their self esteem to the point that they have not experienced failure and do not know how to deal with it.

    It appears to me that a young lady is no longer interested in a young man, and has other suitors. The young man does not know how to deal with being "Dumped" so he thinks it's the end of the/his world and wants to kill everyone involved.

    This scenario has played itself out in the pages of the DesNews and other papers for years. How many ex-husbands, ex-live-ins, or your basic creepy ex-boyfriends get walking papers and return to kill the woman and or children.

    Yeah maybe computer games and violent movies egg the guy on but to me it appears that men, especially, do not know how to deal with rejection and failure other than striking out.

    Perhaps we need less "Most Improved Camper" awards and more mentoring of young people on how to deal with life's down moments.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 15, 2014 8:30 a.m.

    Some problems just cannot be fixed.

    Forget the gun control debate and the (as yet barely touched on) "soldiers are all psycho killers" meme.

    This sort of disgusting criminal act happens dozens of times every day, where some rejected suitor snaps and gets revenge on their (his or her) former love interest and their new flame. It happens with all sorts of instruments, including just burning down buildings, running people down with cars, knives, poison and simply hands and feet as weapons. It is violence committed by either gender, occurs among all racial and religious backgrounds, veterans and draft dodgers alike.

    Some people are just unable to control their emotions and kill others. It is horrible, wrong and devastating to those involved, and their families. But, it is not something likely to stop if we just pass one more law. After all, murder was banned by one of the first ten laws of civilized people, and we have added tens of thousands more laws since Moses came down from the mount, and none have prevented criminal acts.

    We can only punish the guilty afterwards, except when they choose to kill themselves as well as their victims.

  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 15, 2014 8:26 a.m.

    Yes, guns don't kill people, but only to the extent that they don't jump off the wall and start blazing away by themselves. It's the ready availability of guns that makes it so easy for people to use them against each other.

    Let's not forget that until he started shooting, this guy was one of the "good guys with a gun" that the NRA says we need more of.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    July 15, 2014 8:14 a.m.

    Utahns should never think they don't have the very same problems and issues as other places in this country. Sometimes I think people think Utah is different or better, sticking their heads in the sand.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 15, 2014 8:06 a.m.

    Tumbleweed, the claims about "defensive gun use" have been debunked time and time again. Please do some real research and try to learn the truth.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    July 15, 2014 7:24 a.m.

    "Tolman, Peterson said, "made a poor choice" in dealing with it." Ya Think? That's about the stupidest statement I have ever read when describing what lead up to a homicide.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    July 15, 2014 12:26 a.m.

    I am a Logan native. These type of violence is not supposed to happen in small town America. What a tragedy. This is really about anger more than guns.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    July 15, 2014 12:17 a.m.

    Tumbleweed

    No doubt there are times when guns help defend people. I don't think it would have mattered here. A guy comes barging in the house with a rifle. You would barely have time to assess what is going on before he started shooting. And a handgun against a rifle is a poor bet. Yes, better then nothing, but odds are in this situation it wouldn't have mattered.

  • Random Redlands, CA
    July 14, 2014 10:24 p.m.

    Now can we talk about domestic violence? Now can we ask women to leave situations the first time they are uncomfortable and for men to not hurt or abuse women? Now can we ask women to not taunt and insult men until they lash out physically? Now can we remind both genders that jealousy isn't pretty?

  • Tumbleweed Centerville, UT
    July 14, 2014 9:41 p.m.

    @Howard

    And perhaps had one of the two victims had a concealed weapon or at least a gun in the house, the outcome would have been different. There are a lot more defensive uses of a gun each year than murders - 10 times or more. If you only look at the detriments of gun ownership and not the benefits, you get a skewed picture.

  • LifeLibertyHappiness Draper, UT
    July 14, 2014 9:19 p.m.

    Mr. Beal,

    Your point that it's easier with a gun is legitimate, but to make the assumption that is doesn't happen with a knife is pure conjecture.

    The real problem in our country is values. Do we really think we can feed a steady diet of violence through music, movies, TV and video games, have pornography available on demand 24/7, more and more children born out of wedlock, the family in decline where values should be taught and expect there will be no impact on society? It isn't the weapon, but the thoughts that proceed the use of the weapon.

    God bless these families that were impacted. This is a terrible tragedy snuffing out young lives that could have been a great blessing to others for many years to come.

  • djofraleigh raleigh, NC
    July 14, 2014 8:00 p.m.

    What has the killer being a guards person got to do with this story?

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    July 14, 2014 5:43 p.m.

    cjb:

    Maybe we are murderous people in the U.S. because our murder rate is incredible. Or maybe the gun situation fits in there a bit. I wonder if those murders in Texas happen if a knife or rocks or Mrs. White in the study with a candlestick is involved. I'm sure the fact that he had a gun helped him subdue the family until the tragic decision to shoot them. Again, those murders don't happen with a knife. Facts are facts...

  • FatherOfFour WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 14, 2014 4:37 p.m.

    Guns don't kill people. Cocaine doesn't kill people. If someone wants to get cocaine, they will find a way. There were plenty of deaths long before cocaine. If you ban cocaine, people will still be able to get it. Just like banning guns.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    July 14, 2014 4:38 p.m.

    @ Ranch Hand
    Guns don't kill people. Same with ice cream, pork rinds or alcohol. In the wrong hands anything can be abused and deadly.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    July 14, 2014 3:25 p.m.

    Re Howard Beak

    If someone wishes to murder, they will find a way. There were plenty of murders long before there were guns. Back then only the strong and the skillful could with high confidence defend themselves.

  • kiddsport Fairview, UT
    July 14, 2014 3:10 p.m.

    My deepest sympathies go out to the families of all three. So much wasted potential and so much hurt.

    Saying we have a gun problem equates to saying we have an automobile problem. Or an alcohol problem. When you put alcohol and driving together, the results are much more deadly than when you put guns and ammo together. The ratio of fatalities is likely much higher for the alcohol-automobile combination.
    Actually, I agree that we have an alcohol problem. It kills many more than guns and ammo.
    In this case, as in many such cases, we are just as likely to discover a symptom not frequently discussed: the constant emasculation of our young men by a feminized society that has gotten away from teaching things such as accountability, responsibility, respect, and honor. There is not a single, simple solution but perhaps this is where we should begin.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    July 14, 2014 2:50 p.m.

    Let's get real, if the guy comes in with a knife or rocks, the chance of survival is much higher. Not saying I'm against gun rights but we have to say we have a gun problem in our country.

  • rvb CLEARFIELD, UT
    July 14, 2014 2:44 p.m.

    Guns don't kill people. They just make it real easy. Hammers, rocks and knives also don't kill people. They just take a great deal more time, strength, skill and effort to complete the task. And they are much more difficult to use if there are multiple intended targets.

    This is certainly a tragic event. Three lives taken and many more impacted in just a few seconds.

  • Aggie5 Kuna, ID
    July 14, 2014 2:41 p.m.

    god bless these young people.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    July 14, 2014 2:22 p.m.

    Ranch Hand, one of our best liberals brought it up.

    I'd like to see the perpetrators psych profile from the Army. This is so sad. They need to dig into this and try to figure out why this happened.

  • greatbam22 andrews afb, MD
    July 14, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    Most rocks don't kill people either..just saying..

  • Aggie238 Logan, UT
    July 14, 2014 1:31 p.m.

    Can we please refrain from a pointless re-hashing of the gun control debate?

  • Say What? Bountiful, UT
    July 14, 2014 1:06 p.m.

    To Ranch hand

    You're right, guns don't kill people.

    Bullets do.

    And knives, and bare hands and pillows and hammers etc etc.

  • Objectified Richfield, UT
    July 14, 2014 1:04 p.m.

    @ RaunchHand:

    You got that one right. Guns don't kill people. It's the people who pull their triggers that do.
    It's just like with cars. Cars don't kill people. It's the drunk drivers behind their steering wheels who do.

    It doesn't take rocket science to make the proper assimilation... just common sense.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 14, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    Guns don't kill people....

  • Aggie238 Logan, UT
    July 14, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    What's up with all the shootings in Logan lately? Third one this summer. The first address given in this article is practically on campus. Wow.