"I think the real question here is why would someone be able to do such
devastating harm given all the things the victims had done to try to safeguard
her situation and her family's situation," Oxborrow said."Answer, ease of access to firearms, allowing any violent nut to obtain a gun.
This story, while tragic, is just one of many just like it occurring every day
in the US. Time for Congress to figure a way to keep the mentally unstable and
criminals from obtaining guns. "Good guys with guns" is obviously not
the answer when looking at the weekly death rate.
Such a tragic story. Her parents are already saying they have to forgive him
when he just wiped out a significant number of their family members. It is all
of their individual choices whether to forgive him or not and that choice should
not be taken away from any of them. When women are raised to answer to and be
obedient to men all of their lives it is much harder for them to stand up for
themselves when they are being abused, and they feel the extra pressure
religiously to keep a bad marriage together. She did the best she could to stay
safe and keep her children safe. My heart goes out to all of them. They will
never be the same. This terrible tragedy is a reminder of why the Church needs
to put as much attention and money into domestic violence prevention as they do
the same sex marriage fight and other things. Domestic violence is destroying
many families in their flock.
This argument called domestic disputes are not violent or criminal. Disputes are
a Constitution right therefore they are not a crime. This terminology is so
broad and widespread its being abused and wrongfully labeled and accused as a
criminal offense.Husbands, wives, neighbors, family, friends and
business owners all have a right to dispute anything they choose, to dispute
does not make it a crime or felon. Police do not have the right to label acts,
they are assuming the roll of judge and jury to create or infer a crime without
trial or judges when they document a report.The only thing that has
grown is wrongful interpretation of our rights, and our disputes have so
legitimate rights it can even lead to death in protecting constitutional rights.
Domestic violence is in conflict with individual rights therefore this
accusation if false and unconstitutional infringement of rights.Laws
and labels do not limit our rights man or woman or family or friends. Because
disputes happen in public does not make them a threat to each other of others.
These definitions supplied by Obama must be used with discretion and if they
infringe on rights.
I am stunned at the statistic that one in three women in Utah will experience
violence in their relationships. For family and friends of these women, I urge
you to give support and encouragement. I also urge you not to take these women
into your homes. Refer them to the local shelters, and the professionals where
they can live in a secure place while they pick up the pieces of their lives. I
know this runs contrary to our Church training. But assisting a women to escape
from her violent partner puts you and your family in great danger, as we can see
from this tragedy.An order of protection is issued by a judge, and
is only a piece of paper. It is NO PROTECTION from a man with a weapon.
What is sad about this whole situation is how the violence against one person, a
spouse, escalated to children and an extended family. I wonder if the hostile
feelings were amplified by the ease of access to a gun. For the perpetrator it
provided a quick and easy solution to his anger. So while I agree those who
suffer from domestic violence should receive help and be able to get out of the
situation as easily as possible, I think there should be serious discussion
about guns. To many innocent people are hurt and killed each year. While guns
aren't the whole problem, ease of access to guns is part of the problem
that seems to be ignored.
Ever notice that domestic problems began with the passage of women's
suffrage and the civil rights act?Go back to wen this country was
established and there are no records of domestic violence. Not even a hint from
what I found.Ever wonder why it was that way?I can post
the reasons but this site will prevent me from posting them....Fact:
there is no such thing as 'domestic violence' nor should there be
special punishments for it.Violence is violence period. And no
matter who the victim is the punishments should be exactly the same.Murder is murder. And it doesn't matter if the victim was a family member
or total stranger - the penalty should be the same.
In the situations that have occurred with my friends and acquaintances, there is
no way these violent acts can be checked. Even going into hiding or moving does
not guarantee safety.
It is important we address the role anti-depression medicine plays in these
cases. We know anti-depression medicine causes increases in violent thoughts. We
need to start making professionals accountable for prescribing drugs that cause
violence. They might as well have just put a gun in the hands of a violent
offender.I have heard that anti-depression medicine was involved in
every mass killing incident, including Sandy Hook, Ft. Hood, and Columbine.
There are so many things that must change before domestic violence would be
controllable. My son and I tried to get my daughter out of a situation much like
this. The victim needs to believe she doesn't deserve to be treated that
way; the victim needs to have a warning go off when the abuser tries to get them
away from friends and family. When the FIRST incident happens the abuser needs
to get anger management training. When the victim FIRST goes to the hospital,
the hospital needs to report it as domestic violence. There needs to be a
domestic/child abuse department in the police department. The punishment needs
to be great enough to discourage the repeat of the crime; once someone is
charged with domestic violence they should not be able to own a gun. Until
society stops tolerating this treatment of women and children the abuses WILL
Having been a victim of domestic violence myself at the hands of my spouse, I
have learned that many times our spouses and/or family members have mental
illness. In their minds, they are punishing the "person who did them
wrong", because that's how their minds perceive things. In this case,
the perpetrator chose the worst case scenario and hurt the kids to punish their
mother. As a victim, over time you can get used to anything that for
an outsider seems blatantly wrong... But abuse is endured, trickling in like
raindrops, in small doses, until it escalates to an event that is beyond the
understanding of many people who haven't been through it.We as
spouses believe that they can / will change, and when it only gets worse, we are
many times left with little or no support system, living in denial and
isolation, because we can no longer see any solution or light at the end of the
tunnel.This is more common than we realize and it exists at every
socioeconomic level in our society. What happens behind closed doors is another
world many of us have no clue about...
And let's not forget the gender bias in domestic violence: less than 1 in 5
victims of domestic violence are men. The other 4 out of 5 victims of domestic
violence are women, which is why there are many "women's shelters",
but few (none?) men's shelters. Overall, domestic violence is characterized
by a violent man harming (or murdering) his wife or girlfriend.The
fact that Utah has a significantly higher domestic violence rate should shock us
all and be a source of embarrassment to all public institutions, religions, and
organizations that claim to exist for improving human well being. We are
obviously failing! And women and children are suffering the brunt of our
"One in three women in Utah will experience the impacts of intimate partner
violence at some point in their lives." I am thinking this includes those
indirectly impacted (sister, friend, niece, etc.) and not just women with
violent partners. Still a startling statistic.As for blame, it
rests squarely on the shoulders of the man who killed his ex-wife's family.
Somewhere in the last century, our society has latched on to this idea that we
can control everything and whenever something bad happens, it's time to
point fingers. This tragedy is not the fault of his parents, the judge, the
psychologist, the Haskell's bishop, the NRA or anyone else.
I am so sorry to hear about this poor family and the pain all their extended
family must be feeling. Perhaps more effort needs to be made in educating people
how to find a companion and what danger signs to look for during the dating
time. More time needs to be spent in doing activities (not just visiting) with
families of both people wanting to get married. By observing the families
habits or traditions, how the intended spouse relates and treats their own
families you can learn a lot about a person. How do they treat animals and
small children? Do they tend to be self centered? Is it all about them? Often
caring families can spot things someone who is blinded by infatuation cannot.
Being hit by your spouse or boyfriend/girlfriend is not acceptable behavior. I
hope it isn't what we construe as normal behavior. If you start dating and
your boyfriend/girlfriend is abusive, leave. Please don't marry this
person, please don't have children hoping that this will help or fix the
situation. That is what is further sad about this situation, three children
brought into an abusive and tragic situation. I'm not sure about the role
of the predominant religion is playing in telling women to be subservient or
whatever to men, but again abusive behavior should not accepted and should not
be considered normal. If the LDS church and schools can help on the matter,
I'm all for it because often those who are abused or abusers come from
dysfunctional families and think this "normal" behavior or expectations
of a relationship. And I can't stress this enough, if a relationship is
in a tough spot, let alone an abusive area, bringing children into the situation
won't solve anything, but will likely be a stressor that will make things
I M LDS 2:I would suppose why there are not any domestic shelters
for men is that even if the primary abuser was female, I can't even think
of a situation where a female spouse abuser has hunted down spouse or children
to kill them. There is just that reality that men are more violent and
certainly more likely to commit murder and commit murder with a gun. So with a
finite amount of resources, it just makes more sense to have more shelters and
services to protect female victims (and of course children).
Larene said, “We know anti-depression medicine causes increases in violent
thoughts.” Do we? Look at the prescribing information for
antidepressants. Every possible adverse reaction is listed, from nausea to rash
to yawning. “Violent thoughts” is not one of them. “We need to start making professionals accountable for prescribing drugs
that cause violence.” Professionals prescribe antidepressants
to patients for whom they believe the benefits will far outweigh the risks. They
encourage the patient to learn about the drug by reading the medication guide.
And because not every medication works for every patient, they advise patients
and their families to watch for any signs of worsening depression, including
irritability or aggression. If the medication is not helping the patient, the
patient or his/her family is accountable for seeking further help. “I have heard that anti-depression medicine was involved in every mass
killing incident.” You heard wrong. In addition, many studies
have found that SSRIs may reduce the propensity for violence. See George DT et
al, January 2011; Stark LJ et al, April 1989; Coccaro EF et al, May 2009;
Marcotte DE et al, September 2009.It's speculation to suggest
that antidepressants played a role in this tragedy.
Reported cases of domestic abuse: not all cases are reported and we don't
know the real figures or, in consequenc, the real breakdowns by category or
gender. The term 'domestic violence' also, imo, needs an
understandable definition taken from common parlance.Domestic
violence in history: if no figures are available we are forced to look to other
sources including literature which I have found yields some very interesting
results which would be surprising to a great many people. The whole issue is
based on emotion, prejudice and, in a great many cases lies, hyberloe, rhetoric,
histrionics, bad journalism and bad legal practice. There is a
failure to investigate available cases comprehensively, and a low desire to know
the truth. There is no interest in investigating the root causes of actual
cases, the level of violence, no interest in balancing actual acts with levels
and persistence of provocation. There are very few open minds; some unruly
mouths open wide and regularly, while the wise are silent.
Just more evidence to support the basic logic that says you don't pick a
spouse like you pick a candy bar. The general rule in behavioral science is
that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and too many people
pick a spouse based only on the "sales" side of the process, and then
regret it on the "service" side of the spectrum. Someone puts on the
dog and does/says all kinds of romantic things, but the future victim
doesn't really get to know the person until the deal is sealed, and the
surprise package is opened. Forrest Gump said that life is like a box of
chocolates, and you don't know what you're getting until you bite into
the contents. If this is true of life and chocolates, it's 100x true of
marriage and other "serious" relationships. Wishful thinking and
romantic fantasy will never replace adult logic and functional intelligence.
@100%TruePatriot"Ever notice that domestic problems began with the
passage of women's suffrage and the civil rights act? Go back to wen this
country was established and there are no records of domestic violence. Not even
a hint from what I found.?"You are so wrong it is breathtaking.
Here is just ONE example of the perfect, upstanding men you speak
of: Charles Bankhead. Son-in-law of Thomas Jefferson and a total abuser and all
around total jerk. I hate to burst your 'life was perfect
before we treated black people and women like humans' fairytale, but there
1/3 of woman is a startling statistic, and a sad one. Men can and should do much
better. My sociology of gender class in college taught roughly the same
statistic over a decade ago, and that has not improved. More work needs to be
done in teaching our youngsters how to properly make and maintain positive
relationships. That is the work of religion in this country, and they work hard
at it. That is the message I have received all my life attending church, and as
a missionary. What is tragic is, that as advanced as we want to believe our
society is, we are still in the dark ages when it comes to social interactions.
We are unfaithful, disloyal, treasonous, objectify, diminutive, controlling,
intemperate, dishonorable, destructive, hateful, vengeful, murderous and jealous
in what should be our most intimate relationships. All religions I know teach
the opposite of such behavior.
Please do misunderstand my post. I believe some women are attracted to men who
have a propensity for abuse. Women are nurturing by nature. Some feel they can
change someone if they can just be a better spouse or girlfriend. I am not
blaming women for domestic violence. The facts are that abusive men are very
unlikely to change. I drive a bus for UTA. Within the last week I have had two
near incidents of domestic violence on the bus. It is not difficult to identify
an abusive relationship. You can feel and see the tension between the couples.
There are dynamics to abuse that a trained professional can easily identify.
Any women who thinks she is in danger should immediately seek professional help.
Little Stream. There are laws that prohibit anyone with a domestic violence
conviction from owning a gun. When I was in the military you couldn't even
use the rifle range to qualify if you had any history of domestic violence.