Obama seeks greater control through government over non-criminal human action,
while Mormon theology has it that God believes strongly in human agency.
So much race-baiting and hate in these comments. So many claim that the Church
is brainwashing or forcing its members to vote a certain way, but honestly,
I've hardly heard any political discourse during the last few decades in
church. Beyond the classic, "Freedom is Important" talks, nothing. Many
members are politically involved, something the Church encourages, and they do
talk politics among themselves.Now, let's make the answer to
this question easy:Democrats support abortion, something strongly
condemned by Christian values.Democrats support gay lifestyles, something
directly condemned in the Bible.Democrats have a long history of fiscal
irresponsibility, something discouraged by the Church.Could go on,
but those are the major points.
...CONTINUED...- “Eighty percent of Americans support
including higher taxes as part of the [debt ceiling] deal.” However, that
same week, a poll by Rasmussen showed only 34 percent supported a tax hike as
part of the deal.- In 2006: “America has a debt problem and a
failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I, therefore, intend to oppose
the effort to increase America’s debt limit.” But as president,
Obama has led the charge each year to increase America’s debt.- And,
let’s not forget PolitiFact’s 2013 Lie Of The Year: “If you
like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan,
period. No one will take it away, no matter what. … You can keep your
family doctor.”I could go on and on, but you get the picture!
...CONTINUED...- “The sequester is not something that
I’ve proposed. It is something that Congress has proposed.” The
truth is that the White House proposed an “automatic sequester” on
July 12, 2011.- “I didn’t set a red line [in Syria].”
And yet, at a prior news conference, using unscripted language in a statement,
he said, “a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical
weapons moving around.”- “It’s here that companies like
Solyndra are leading the way toward a brighter and more prosperous
future.” After Obama’s administration gave the company $535 million,
Solyndra and its solar panels went belly up.- To Israel, “We have
not only made sure that they [Iran] have to stop adding additional centrifuges,
we’ve also said that they’ve got to roll back their 20 percent
advanced enrichment … down to zero.” In fact, the deal allows Iran
uranium enrichment of 5 percent.
...CONTINUED...- We “will ensure that federal contracts over
$25,000 are competitively bid.”- We “will eliminate all income
taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year.”- “We
are going to work with you to lower your [health care] premiums by
$2,500,” and we’ll “do it by the end of my first term as
president.”- “I don’t take a dime of their
[lobbyists’] money, and when I am president, they won’t find a job
in my White House.” In fact, Obama granted waivers at will, and more than
a dozen lobbyists got jobs in the Obama administration.- “I pledge
to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.” But Obama has ignored
the constitutional amendment granting powers not enumerated in the Constitution
to the states.- “If you’ve got a business — you
didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”
1) Barack Hussein Obama is far and away the most dishonest President in American
history. Here are just a few of his whoppers:- “We will close
the detention camp in Guantanamo Bay.” Still open.- “If we
have not gotten our troops out [of Iraq] by the time I am president, it is the
first thing I will do.” Didn’t happen.- “Today I’m
pledging to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term in
office.” Instead, the national debt increased $5 trillion on his watch.- “As soon as we’re out of this recession, we’ve got to get
serious about starting to live within our means.” Huh?- “We
agree on reforms that will reduce the costs of health care. Families will save
on their premiums.”- “We’ve got shovel-ready projects
all across the country.” Later, Obama admitted his own lie, saying,
“There’s no such thing as shovel-ready projects.”-
“We reject the use of national security … to spy on citizens who are
not suspected of a crime.”
1. Obama is black.2. Obama is not Mormon.3. Obama is a Democrat.4. Obama is educated.Utah is famous for eating up Right Wing
My guess is because he is incompetent and obviously over his head in all things
related to governing the most powerful nation in the world.
RedWings in CLEARFIELD, UT wrote: "I find less and less of a correlation
between the doctrines of my faith (LDS) and either political party. Republicans
seem to not understand charity and helping their neighbor. "You
are quite wrong about this anecdotal assertion. Research by the head of AEI
(American Enterprise Institute), a DC-based think tank, shows just the opposite.
Arthur Brooks was trained at Rand Corporation which makes him a massive data
geek. His book "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Conservative
Conservativism" was researched when he was a born & bred mainstream
Democrat liberal. But the data told the opposite story: That conservatives were
FAR more charitable & philanthropic even AFTER one discounted donations to
one's church. And this remained true at ALL income levels, high to low.
Because of his own research, Brooks ended up becoming a conservative himself and
leaving the Democrats (who are actually Leftists/Socialists today). So, your statement may be your limited personal experience, but the broader
data says exactly the opposite to what you said about Republicans &
charitableness & helping one's neighbor.
Why? Based on my conversations with Mormons who don't like Obama, 3
reasons. 1) Too many members think "To be a good Mormon, you
have to be a staunch Republican," so they'd disapprove of ANY
Democratic politician. 2) Ignorance. People tell me
"Obama's a socialist." I tell them "No, I'M a socialist!
Seriously! I belong to, vote for, and have served on district councils for a
socialist political party. Trust me, Obama's not even CLOSE to being a
socialist. Would the Dow Jones have more than doubled under a socialist
president?" 3) Racism and fear. No one will say it out loud,
but I've seen people VISIBLY shudder at the mention of Obama's name,
in a way that they don't for anyone else's name. Too many people are
still irrationally afraid of black people.I'm not a big Obama
fan, and I'm not a supporter of the Democratic party. But President Obama
has still been a far better result for America than either "President
McCain" or "President Romney" would have been.
@Craig Clark of Boulder, I agree with you that Mormons have no issue with
President Obama personally, but I disagree with your statement that Church
authorities have spent the last century preaching political conservatism from
the pulpit. What church leaders preach is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Believers in that gospel, LDS or otherwise, take it from there. In case you
haven't noticed, the political party to which Obama belongs has gradually
and consistently distanced itself from many of Christianity's most
important teachings, including, but certainly not limited to, a belief in the
very existence of God, and His influence on the foundation of our nation.
Flawed premise and consequently ridiculous question.
I can't speak for all Mormons, but for me, I disapprove of any leader who
continuously can't speak the truth.With Obama, it's a long
"The low approval rating amongst Mormons is “colored no doubt by the
President’s defeat of Mormon Republican challenger Mitt Romney in the 2012
presidential election,” wrote Leslie Larson of the Daily News."Anything in the polling that would back that up or is it conjecture on
the part of Ms Larson?
Obama highest approval rating is from Muslims.... lowest from Christians and
Mormons being the lowest,that say a lot!
Iron Guy wake up. Obama has done nothing in making America stronger and safer.
Corruption runs rampant in this administration from top to bottom. We have a
living liar occupying the White House, not an American. A foreign born. Thus
ineligible per The Constitution. A lying muslim feigning to be Christian. When
you have 70% of muslims approval rating, that number speaks volumes as to where
his allegiance is. Even in his own writings did he say that he would side with
the muslims if and when the winds changed direction. Obama is a dangerous man
who should never have been made president. As our Founding Fathers warned, he is
a domestic enemy and thus should be treated as such.
Obama doesn't hold the same values as Mormons do, in fact Obama
doesn't hold the values of the majority of Americans.... Obama
was elected twice not because of the strength of his character, but rather
because of his skin color.
It has nothing to do with religion. It's simple, President Obama is the
worst President in US history as time will prove. The LDS community may just be
more involved and watching politics as they are encouraged to be involved in
Why do members of the LDS Church disapprove of President Obama?That's easy. He's a Democrat and beat Romney. 'Nuff said.
I'm an Idaho-born libertarian. My father often said that no Democrat could
be a good Mormon. He was sympathetic to the John Birch Society. But Mormons in
Idaho were no more conservative than anybody else in Idaho. That is no-doubt
true of the rest of the intermountain west.However, in Connecticut,
my ward was extremely liberal, consisting of blacks, italians, Puerto Ricans,
Irish, e.g. the melting pot that is the east coast. The only Mormon Communist
I've ever met was an active member of the ward.I live in Orange
County, the most conservative district in California. There, the GOP reigns
supreme, and the church leadership there are mostly republican. As a
libertarian, I see more attacks on liberty by the GOP than by the Democrats. And
I don't agree that social welfare and healthcare is bad. Taxes are
necessary to maintain our civilization. Don't believe me? Go to any latin
American country. Try India, Indonesia, even Thailand. Those people are too poor
to pay taxes. You would not trade places with them.I don't give
this survey much credit, but it does reflect the intermountain west, methinks.
The Mormons were actively biased against blacks upto 1978, so now it continues,
but a little moe subrosa.
It seems to me that many Mormons were blinded to Mitt Romney's horrible
policies by the fact that he's LDS. As the article mentions, they are
'angry' with President Obama for defeating him. I'm an active
Latter-Day Saint, and my only real argument with the President is his
unflinching support for apartheid Israel, and his tolerance for and financing of
the brutal oppression of the Palestinian people. If it weren't for that
huge blot on his record, I would have said he's a great president.
Why do so many mormons not only dislike the President, but repeat awful untruths
about him from Brietbart, Fox, Beck, etc?Because he defeated their
status symbol.Latter day saints tend to be very staunch republicans.Allowing that he has done his best means realizing Bush's failures.Christian charity and understanding do not seem to apply in many comments.Kenyan background is too foreign for them.If you want to
understand the deepest reason, read all of the first letters above, please.
Its hard to believe that Obama supporters have the gall to try and gather his
support in Deseret News. If anyone pays much attention in the world and see the
lies, the deceit, the disregard for the Constitution (read the B of M concerning
this), the support for causes that are contrary to gospel values, and the
countless scandals, you wonder why there is little support for Obama? He is a
Narcissist. The things he constantly does alienate this country and are beneath
his office. If any other Republican president did half of the things this man
has done they would have been vilified and run out of office already.
Where is the poll that shows what percent of minorities who voted for Mitt
Romney ?Why is there no attempt to portray that in questionable light ?I'm serious.Never in the history of the United States
did a collected racial entity vote near exclusively for a candidate of their own
race. Some polls showed 93-94% of blacks voted for Pres. Obama. 93% ? On
issues ? I doubt it. Substantial sympathy or affinity vote, sure. That
overweight voting percentage provided the raw count of votes that elected him.
I wonder if that would happen again if he could run for a 3rd term, and if it
will happen again if another black were to gain the nomination again soon.
@ Open-minded - check your facts about the military. The military wasn't
beaten by the terrorists, our politicians capitulated to them. Our military
wins the battles, our politicians give it back.@Screwdriver - you
must have gotten your info about "all Republicans" from MSNBC, since
your assertion about all Republicans want to make all abortion illegal is
incorrect. Some do, but most don't. Just like some liberals want abortion
on demand, but most understand that such would alienate the centrist Americans.
Over generalization leads to incorrect statements.....like that one you made
about "all Republicans"...
It seems as though Mormons don't find President Obama to be delightsome.
And my statement that the LDS church stance on abortion has more in common with
the libertarian/democrat view than it does with republicans that want to make
all abortions illegal. Nowhere did the LDS church say you should ask the
government leader if you should have an abortion. Republicans would
make all abortion illegal even though they have no idea how to enforce it. For
thousands of years women have used tea to induce abortion. Now can you imagine
the outrage as every woman is investigated for murder after a miscarriage? All
Mormon women as well that have a miscarriage - we're a nation of laws after
all. That's why it's not going to be made illegal in a free country.
I am a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I
voted twice for President Obama, and I still support him. There is no doubt that
LDS members tend to align with the conservative GOP, but that is not a
requirement of the faith, and there are many moderates and liberals among us.
@JoeCapitalist2It is clear that you was completely asleep during the grand
GWBush years. The lies, wars, Jeff Gannon, 911, destroyed economy and the 400+
scandals. Some how you missed all of this.
@ScrewdriverAs far as abortion is concerned, while the church does
say that it is ultimately up to the individual and their family and local
leaders, they do make it clear that it almost always the worst choice. They say
it should only really be considered in cases of rape, incest, or health risk,
and even then it is not guaranteed to be the right choice to make.You may say that Democrats in general believe abortions should be done for
those reasons as well, but the overwhelming majority of them are not. Depending
on what study you read the result vary from 1% to 5% of abortions being a result
of rape, incest, or legitimate health concern, which is extremely low.For more on the subject you can read Elder Nelson's talk in the ensign
sometime in 2008 (or around that date, I don't remember exactly when).
Also, President Faust made an interesting statement about morality and laws in
his article "Serving the Lord and Resisting the Devil" from September
1995, and he talks a lot about abortion as well. I recommend them for a good
Riverton Cougar, the last time I read the official LDS handbook, abortion was
not completely off the table for Mormons. It's a solemn decision to be made
carefully within the circle of wife, husband and LDS leaders. It DOES have more
in common with the actual democrat or even the libertarian view than
republican"s, who would make all abortions illegal.But of course
since republicans like to base their policies of miss-truths, they will say all
democrats are trying to get you to have an abortion or are pro-abortion when
Democrats really just take a libertarian view on the subject. Dems believe women
and Doctors can handle the responsibility and the government can stay out of it.
Some commenters of the far right persuasion appear to hate the Obama Democrats
like Hamas hates the Jews. In case you haven’t noticed, it is not really
a winning formula.
That is an easy question to answer. Sad to say, President Obama is a proven
liar (Key word: PROVEN) He cannot be trusted. If you cannot Trust someone and
that person lies why would "ANYONE" LDS or anyone else approve of
President Obama, or Harry Reid, or Nancy Pelosi. Bottom Line: LDS cannot
approve of anyone they do not trust!
@steamroller,You are wrong in insinuating that the BOM solidifies
the DNC stance on helping the poor. The Nephites were very prosperous during the
times of Nephi and King Benjamin because they labored and were not idolatrous
(they also mention that taxes were lower). On the other hand, they were
idolatrous under King Noah (and coincidentally, they mention that taxes were
high, or a "burden"). Although the DNC claims to want to help the poor,
their actions and policies on things like welfare and foodstamps actually
promote idolatry and not self reliance.@Screwdriver,"A few years ago republicans couldn't stand the name Bush any more
than the rest of us. They seem to have rewritten history enough in their own
minds to be warming right back up to him."After 6 years of
Obama, who wouldn't want Bush back?And your rant about liberal
facts is a lie. I read a brochure from Obama during the 2012 election and he
claimed taxes would be lower in his plan and he had references. I checked the
reference, and Obama FLAT OUT LIED. So much for "solid, referenced and
listed for review". Saying something doesn't make it true.
Wow. I haven't been on this article for a few days, but it looks like the
liberal sheep are dipping into new lows.There are a couple myths I
want to dispute:Myth #1: Since most Mormons live outside the USA and Obama
is popular outside the USA, most Mormons actually support Obama.However, note that Muslims overwhelmingly support Obama, and Islam is a very
big religion. I do agree that Obama does have some worldwide fans: Hugo Chavez
and the Castro family being perhaps his biggest supporters, as well as the more
socialist countries (good company, eh?).Myth #2: The Democratic
platform falls more in align with LDS doctrine than the GOP's.Perhaps that might be true if you didn't include stances on abortion,
taxes, welfare, government, fiscal responsibility, self reliance, gay marriage,
women's rights, etc. Even with things like charity, the DNC may seem close
with their lips, but their actions and deeds are far, far from what the gospel
teaches. In addition, why do so many liberals leave the church because it
conflicts with their political views compared to so few conservatives leaving
for the same reason?
BTW redshirt, THE BLAZE is not better than FOX. It's the same or worse in
it's pursuit of republican "news". It was founded by Glen Beck
A few years ago republicans couldn't stand the name Bush any more than the
rest of us. They seem to have rewritten history enough in their own minds to be
warming right back up to him. I used to be a republican Mormon until
I realized it was based on innuendo, fear and outright lies. I would listen to
Rush all the time and because I told myself I was "fair and balanced" I
listed to both liberals and conservatives with a note and pen. I never had FACTS
from conservatives. Rush would disclaimer a two hour rant with, "we
don't yet have all the facts but..." Then 2 hours of rant full of
innuendo and factless blame. All the while I could fill up a
notebook with the references from Randi Rhodes or Thom Hartman who's facts
were solid, referenced and listed for review.
I'm a mormon who has voted for Obama on both counts. I have very little
trust in poll accuracy and equity. Making your way to the national
political arena requires selling your soul to some degree. Romney, Obama, Paul
... all of them have had to make "compromises" that are unsavory at
best. The question is who still has enough moral equity to last 4 or 8 years and
incur the least amount of damage? And who has the proper leadership qualities to
unite an increasingly politically polarized nation? It's quite a mess. Our
best bet actually would have been Jon Huntsman Jr...but who wants a moderate
with rational, well-meaning head on his shoulders to run for president? SNL, CNN
and Facebook Junkies would lose all their best material!
Why do I disapprove, despise really, Mr. Obama? It's really very simple.1. Gas was $1.79 per gallon where I am when he took office. It was $3.51 this
morning.2. The price of food has skyrocketed since he took office.3.
The price of electricity has climbed significantly he took office. 4.
Because of the "Affordable" Care Act, I now have to pay $6000 as a
family deductible when last year it was $1500 and I pay the same in premiums.5. Because of the "Affordable" Care Act, we need to find a new
specialist to treat my wife for a degenerative disease so that it won't
kill her.6. The decline in the economy and the failure to secure our
borders and enforce immigration law has created an environment where my children
cannon find jobs to help them through college.7. The decline in the
economy since he took office has cost me 40% of the income that I had the day
that President Bush left office.These are all concrete issues. His
fecklessness in forigne and defense policy is just icing on the cake,
Not among the 18% - I support and voted for the President in 2008 and 2012. As a
Latter-day Saint the options were clear in both elections. I support and stand
by our President.
Because Mormons are overwhelmingly Republican, and Obama is public enemy #1 for
Republicans. 2/3 of Congressional Republicans want to impeach him for crying out
loud.That said, I am an active, temple-attending Mormon who has
always supported the President and continues to do so. No, I don't think he
can do no wrong - he has certainly made plenty of mistakes and miscalculations.
But at the same time I think he is a good and honorable man who represents our
nation well and has been doing all he can to lead our country in a positive
direction, all while a certain faction of the opposing party has vilified him
and done all in their power to oppose anything the President supports. Shame on
them. I believe history will prove Obama to be a very good president given the
hand he was dealt and Congressional Republicans of this time will not be viewed
in a very positive light.
To "Tyler D" please explain your leap in logic. How can it be the fault
of Republicans that a budget wasn't passed when the Republicans passed a
budget in the House, and it was the Democrats that refused to vote on it? See
"Timeline Of Senate Democrats’ Refusal To Make Budget Plans
Public" on the Senate website.Also see "House Passes New
Obamacare Counterproposal " on the Blaze (not Fox).There are
many articles out there showing how Reid refused to pass a budget that the House
had passed. In fact, you can see that the House made all sorts of efforts to
prevent shutting the government down, but the Harry Reid wouldn't even
bring it up for a vote.You can deny it all you want, but the
historical records are there that show nothing but obstruction by Harry Reid.
@RedShirt – “The House passed a budget, but Harry Reid refused to
vote on the budget.”That Fox/AM Radio kool-aid really did a
good job…The budget the House passed was unique (as in never
in the history of the Republic had it been done) in one respect – it
sought to amend a law that was duly passed and upheld by the SC that had nothing
to do with the annual appropriation process.In the past, when the
government has been shut down over the annual budget it is because of an
argument within the budget (i.e., dollars appropriated). The ACA has a dedicated
revenue stream completely outside the annual appropriation process (I realize
this is getting redundant but apparently, and sadly, it seems necessary).The government was shut down by right-wing radicals over a fight they
couldn’t win either through the ballot box or the normal legislative
process. This is why I said in another article comment that today’s
“conservatives” have a lot more in common with 60’s radicals
than they do traditional conservatism, only with the added hypocrisy of wrapping
their radicalism in the flag.
"It has little to do with Obama personally so much as the political
disposition instilled in Latter-day Saints by a century of General Authorities
using the pulpit to make political conservatism virtually a tenet of the
faith.".....And then there is the Church newspaper--DN-- which
pushes, promotes Republicans and the Republican agenda.
It's the same as I mentioned in a similar article: the president is a
race-baiting socialist. This isn't an insult, it's an objective
description of his most comprehensive and consistent actions and reactions to
circumstances. He pushes for his agenda whatever way he can, legally or
illegally, and blames everyone who disagrees with him when he can't,
labeling them as "obstructionists" or "racists".Sure, I supported Romney, but it wasn't because he's a member of The
Church. Supporting the freedom to own and manage property and protect families
and religious liberty are just sort of center-center, common sense positions. I
don't disapprove of Obama any more since Romney lost than I otherwise
would. Obama didn't beat Romney in the sense of a fisticuffs match;
ignorance and fraud spread among -us- is why Romney lost.
To "On the other hand" you are living in your own little universe. You
are completely wrong on every point.Republicans attempted to get
regulations that could have prevented this current recession, but Democrats lied
to congress and stopped any regulation legislation in committee.How
does raising the average cost of insurance by over 40% and pushing everybody
into high deductible plans make healthcare cheaper? He has made it more
expensive.Obama has done nothing for Iraq or Afghanistan.
Withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated by Bush, and Afghanistan is still a mess.Mike Lee did not shut down the government, you give him too much credit.
The House passed a budget, but Harry Reid refused to vote on the budget. If
you blame anybody, blame the guy who didn't even allow the vote to
occur.Gun violence isn't the problem. The problem is mental
health, and how to identify people that are at risk.Obama's
leadership has yet to be seen. He has spent 6 years driving the nation into the
As a liberal Mormon/Christian, I think Obama is too conservative. He is
"Bush lite." He won't bring our troops home, he isn't fighting
to stop military over spending, he only supported same sex marriage AFTER the
vice president forced his hand, is "Obamacare" is a free handout to
insurance companies rather than are real effort to get more people affordable
health care, etc. I don't support Obama because he is a Reagan era
Republican, the sane voice for the now crazy GOP, but not a good voice for
Republican policies of deregulation are largely to blame for the recent
recession. President Obama has worked to fix financial regulation and to rebuild
the economy.Despite the fact that the United States has the most
expensive yet least effective medical care in the developed world, Republicans
have done little to reduce medical costs, improve medical outcomes, or help all
Americans gain access to medical care. The Affordable Care Act isn't the
ultimate solution to these issues, but it's far better than anything
Republicans have done about these issues.Republicans started two
long, costly wars in this millennium; the justifications for at least one of
those wars have proven to be more or less unfounded. President Obama has worked
to end these wars.Republicans, led by Utah Republican Mike Lee, shut
down the government for 16 days last year, costing our country billions. In the
end, Obama's plan prevailed anyway.Republicans have prevented
the government from funding research on gun violence (including gun violence
prevention). President Obama has pushed to renew funding for research in this
area.I'll readily admit that Obama's leadership
hasn't been perfect, but at least he's on the right track.
Obama is disliked because he is morally elastic, i.e. not moored to principles.
I suppose that could be said of most politicians, but Obama has this in spades.
When ideas fail, words come in very handy (Goethe). Our dear leader has done a
lot of talking (teleprompter president), but his ideas have utterly failed. To
our democratic contributors, I leave with a Leon Festinger quote from "When
Prophecy Fails": A man with a convictions is a hard man to change. Tell him
you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your
sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.
The reason we don't agree with Obama is NOT because he beat Romney, because
I as MANY others, believe he did not beat Romney, but store the election.
However, Obama's first term was riddled with dishonesty, over spending,
Obamacare issues- it is NOT health care by any stretch of the imagination - and
his leadership is nonexistent. His world knowledge has put the US in a very
perilous place and our prior allies do not believe that we have their back. Look
at Israel and what is happening to our friends there. I am sad for our country
even though I recognize that God is in charge.
It's About Time You Asked This Question, Deseret News!Actually About
7 Years Too Late! Ugh.Please, Please, Please Keep it Up. I'm so
very, very, very tired of the entirely non-neutral right-center-right
one-sidedness of this beloved, 100% Church-owned publication. Please become a
truly neutral news publisher so I can put behind me the 30-plus years of ribbing
I've taken for being a loyal reader of the Deserted News.
Lets face it, republicans all are sorts of crazy. When Mitt Romney made his 47%
remark, the right defended him saying how it was wrong that 47 percent of
Americans do not pay any income taxes. On the flip side the left criticized
Romney for only paying 14 percent on his fortune.The right defended
Romney by arguing that he payed the legally required amount. Politics and tax
policy aside the right was correct. However, the people who pay no income tax
because of deductions or credits(the earned income tax credit was expanded under
Reagan) are also paying the legally required amount, it just happens to be
zero.I think it is fair to say that the 47% remark is being played
as politics. Plain and simple. Republicans like to bring up the topic but they
will never introduce legislation to raise taxes on the bottom half of this
country but it fires up the base.
JoeCapitalist2 11:07 a.m.And corporations who take billions in tax
breaks while their employees qualify for public assistance aren't
"leeching off society"? And why are the only people whining about
"religious liberty" are the ones who get called out for forcing others
to live by their beliefs? And please, show me one example of how
President Obama (or any government authority) prevents "real" charity?
When religious organizations show up to assist at a disaster site, I'm
pretty sure no one turns them away.You see, this is exactly what
I'm talking about. If you disagree with Obama and his policies, fine.
That's your right. What gets me is the constant trotting out of right-wing
cliches and talking points when it's time to proclaim what "God
believes." If anyone should be above petty politics, it's the Lord.
You wouldn't know that by the way most Mormons talk, though...
Re: "I was told that my support for healthcare reform was the views of Satan
. . . ."Well it is the view of Satan. But that doesn't mean
your standing in the Church is being questioned because you're not a
Republican.Which was your original complaint.It's
true that most Mormons disagree with Obama's policies. And, it's true
we disapprove of him, because of his policies. It's also the case that most
real Americans, regardless of religion, also disagree with his policies. And
disapprove of him.Look at any recent poll -- even his
bought-and-paid-for pollsters can't hide it anymore.
@BobK - I really hope you don't actually believe that. I believe you are
probably just stirring the pot. I believe race has nothing to do with it. If it
was AlGore or John Kerry and he did the same things as Obama it would be just as
low, if not more so.
While I can't speak for the rest of the LDS population, my opposition to
Obama has to do with freedom, liberty and the Constitution. Our individual
liberty is of utmost importance. Free agency was the main issue in the War in
Heaven, and, here on earth, our freedom to choose, right or wrong, is our most
valuable gift. Without free agency, we cannot choose for ourselves, and we
don't have the opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them, or to get
the rewards and blessings of making correct choices. Therefore, freedom takes
precedence. And the purpose of the Constitution is to preserve freedom. I submit
that anyone who doesn't agree probably doesn't understand the Plan of
Salvation and human nature, and I recommmend reading Doctrine and Covenents
Section 134, and Section 98:5-7, and the Book of Mormon. Obama (and
most other elected officials) gas shown by his words and actions, that he has
very little regard for freedom and personal liberty, and even less for the
Constitution. Hence my objection to him.
I suggest these reasons for such poor mormon support for this President.1-- Leftover sentiment that it's inappropriate a Black man to be in
such a high position.2-- A general disrespect for the Black
Community, which is thought to have the opposite of mormon values. This leads to
thought that he must be out to take from the Whites and give to Blacks who have
not earned it.3-- That Muslim name4-- He is responsible
for Romney having to waffle, change positions, and look foolish to the American
public with his statements, then getting beaten nearly 2 to 1 in the Electoral
Collage. Ronney, a mormon prince, could never be wrong, so Obama must have done
him in.5-- A failing of true Christian Charity and understanding, to
see that someone so different can be a good and capable person, and whose every
motive need not be questioned.
@RedShirtMIT – “All of those hunting and fishing licenses fees that
the evil gun toting conservatives pay go into a fund that is used strictly for
wildlife protection.Another good point – and I don’t
think hunters are evil. In fact, if God didn’t want us to eat meat we
wouldn’t have canine teeth or eyes that point forward.To your
overall point though, by way of example if an employer moved into town offering
to hire 500 people but as part of the deal he would be dumping toxic sludge into
the ground (possibly into the water table), I’m guessing the more
conservative politicians would be touting the jobs and downplaying the
environmental impact. And let’s not forgot the number of conservatives who
have recently called for getting rid of the EPA, an agency started by a
Republican.But even if we grant the two parties are equal here, what
about all the other stuff I mentioned?Also, and as even some
conservatives have said in recent years, the Republican Party needs to stop
being the party of stupid (too many examples to cite here).
I am a proud member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. My
opinion on our president has nothing to do with what church I belong to or the
fact Obama beat Romney. I have never like Obama based on his own actions as the
president. I do not like my freedom being taken away from me or having a
president who lies to the people of the country he is running. My opinion on the
president is based upon his speeches, the fact he never takes responsibility for
his actions and blames others for the outcomes, his constant spending of money
we don't have, the disrespect he gives to Congress and the other boards in
the government who are suppose to give permission of his actions before he acts,
there are many actions I do not approve of which he makes. That is why I
disapprove of the president. Not because he isn't a member of the same
church I am or political party. I make opinions on actions not beliefs.
To "steamroller" yes, conservatives are. There are many studies out
there showing that conservatives not only give more to charity, but they give to
charities that help the poor. Liberals give to charities that support the arts
and highbrow charities that do not help the poor.It would be great
to get some tax cuts that actually help the economy again. Trickle down
economics of the 1980s, gave us the prosperity of 1990's.My
question is how is the trickle up poverty working for you?To
"Open Minded Mormon" yes, the LDS church is a minority in the US, but
conservatives are the largest political group. According to Gallup (liberal
source) as of 2010 conservatives accounted for 42% of the US, followed by
moderates at 35%, and liberals trailed at 20%If I didn't know
you better I would think that the rest of your rant was about liberals. You
see, conservatives are not running around the world apologizing for our past.
Remember, Obama is constantly telling us that our problems are the fault of
other people. Liberals are constantly pitting one group against another.Your ilk are destroying the US through their failed political policies.
As a Mormon - AND as an American....I'm growing
soooo tired of the daily Right-Wing chants of -- WE HATE OBAMA!We
hate the Government.We hate Democrats!We hate Liberals!We hate
the 47%.I remind you -- You are in the minority.Most of
Amnerica [the World] disagree with you.I could evoke your motto of
-- If you don't like it, leave.As an America -- who HAS sworn
the Oath [Mike Richards], it is my duty to protect America -- From
ALL enemies, foreign or Domestic.And IMHO -- Those of
you Obama / Government haters, constantly berating and talking smack about
our Nation, are far FAR worse than any Middle Eastern Terrorists in
a cave in Pakistan.They Won, They have beaten the World's
Strongest Military, You are doing all the work FOR them.YOU
are attacking and destroying America.They must be laughing.I
don't need to deploy to Afghanistan, America's biggest threat is
21978 10:36 a.m. July 14, 2014@Ultra Bob & EsquireIf
this issue has anything to do with race please explain to me why Mia Love is
heavily favored to win in November. I assume both of you are big fans of hers
right?-----------------That's easy. She's
heavily favored because she's an extreme far right fringe-dwelling
Republican. That outweighs any other consideration.
@anti government"I won't bore you with the rest of the
blatant lies..."Except you just did.
I am tired of all the "Mormons are sheep", and "their leaders tell
them to hate Obama", or "they listen to Fox News and are told what to
believe". Mormon's disapprove of Obama for the same reasons most
Americans disapprove of the job he is doing right now. If you look at the Poll,
Obama is below 50% approval among all Christian Religions. He only gets above
50% when you take out Christians. Why do Christians in general disapprove of
him? Could it be his open contempt for the beliefs of Christians?
When politicians try to defend abortion-on-demand and Gay Marriage, both
important tenets among most Christians, why would they support them? He also
only believes the laws he supports should be enforced, others can be ignored or
changed by executive order. This is contrary to our Constitution and system of
checks and balances. Most Mormons support strict interpretation of the
Constitution as intended by the founding fathers as we consider it an inspired
document. Liberals, like Obama, support an interpretation that is more
adjustable. It is simple- When you attack a group of people with
contempt towards their beliefs, don't expect them to like you.
This poll where only 15% of Mormons approve of BO is reflective of something the
rest of the country already knows. That is, Mormons views and understanding of
the world is very different from other Americans. While we are celebrating July
24th the rest of the country recognizes Pie & Beer Day. We're just a
little different than most.
@RedWingsThanks for the kind words."I hope you have found
peace and that the Savior is part of your life in a way that blesses
you...."I think so. While I did leave the church it was due to
sincere lack of belief in many core doctrines rather than any unfortunate
experiences, but I think being honest about it is best in the long run (heh, of
course I'm totally going to feel like quite the fool if I die and go to the
spirit world and am told I threw away the correct answer).
To "steamroller" actually your statements are in contradiction with the
BoM and Jesus' teachings.Jacob 2:19 states "And after ye
have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye
will seek them for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed
the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and
the afflicted."God wants people to seek riches, that is one
aspect of capitalism. In that statement he also shows that we should
voluntarily help those in need. Freedom to do what you want with your wealth is
also a capitalist idea.In the NT, we read Luke 12:13-15 about a man
that wanted to force his brother to give him more money. Just like in modern
socialism/communism, one person forces another to give him money and wants to
use a governing body to do so. Jesus let us know that it is contrary to his
gospel to force others to care for you.In Luke 19:1-10 we again read
of a wealthy man being praised by Jesus for the good he did with riches.
Is the conservative slant of the Deseret News one of the reasons for LDS'
extreme dislike of Obama?
There are a lot of people commenting on why those of us who are members of the
LDS Church do not support Barach Obama. To me the chief reason is that he cannot
be trusted. His "Oath of Office", which was sworn to God and to our
Country, seems to mean nothing to him. We take "oaths" very
seriously. We understand that God requires an accounting of the oaths that we
take. We are told of the consequences that await "oath breakers".Mr. Obama cannot be trusted. He has proven that time after time after
time. No one is required to trust an untrustworthy person.Secondly,
many members of the LDS Church have read and understand the Constitution. We
revere it as being inspired of God. Obama is tramping all over that document as
he puts in place a government that does not respect the rule of law and does not
recognize the limits off authority of the three branches of Government. A lazy
citizenry has allowed him to usurp authority and to act by decree.We cannot sustain anyone who takes power to himself.
@JoeCapitalist2 – “waste much of my "donation" on largely
worthless programs that build dependency instead of lifting people out of
poverty.”You make a good point – the government should
be teaching people how to fish and not just giving them a fish. And there are
other areas where I think conservatives have good instincts (e.g., immigration,
education vouchers, balanced budget amendment, etc…).My
problem though is if I’m going to vote conservative that also means
I’m going to vote for the guy least likely to protect the environment,
place people ahead of corporations, fund scientific research (and follow the
results of that research), keep religion out of politics, and recognize that the
healthcare market does not function like the toaster market (and make policy
accordingly).So either way I end up plugging my nose when casting my
vote. And given our two party system, the most rational voting strategy I can
think of is to vote for the most centrist, pragmatic candidates and when one
party has been in power too long (and starts believing in their own propaganda a
little too much), vote for the other side.
Schnee - I am sorry for the many negative experience you had with
members. While I may disagree with you as a matter of opinion on many social
issues of the day, the bottom line is that God loves all His children and wants
to see them all safely home. HE loves you just as much as he loves me (or the
members you had struggles with).I believe that we come to know and
love our Savior, and as we grow in that knowledge we desire to keep His
commandments more fully. How it all ends up for each of us is for Him to
decide.I hope you have found peace and that the Savior is part of
your life in a way that blesses you....
I always follow the will of God, as revealed to me through his spirit. Even
though I wanted to vote for Romney, since he seemed to have values similar to
mine, when I prayed I felt the Holy Spirit to tell me to vote for Obama. Why? I
don't know. But if the spirit tells you to do something, you obey. Knowing
the will and work of God cannot be thwarted or stopped, when Obama won, I knew I
was on the right side with God. Anyone who is in tune with God should have
received the same revelation. Next time, don't pray to find out who's
the best president. Pray to find out the will of God. Always follow the will of
God. If something happens, it was the will of God. I think Mormons are mad
because Obama won, and they realized they're not in tune with God at all.
Bless you brothers and sisters. Dare to do right!
I couldn't care less that he beat Romney other than the simple fact that a
pet rock would have been a better president than another 4 years of this loser.
So whether it was Romney or someone else has little to do with my position.I didn't like obama long before Romney ran against him.Obama is a failure in multiple respects. He can't even keep his own oath
of office to uphold the law. He literally ignores the law when he does not
agree with it. Regardless of party this a bad precedent and not the
way our govt was designed to operate. He acts like a King instead of the
president of our republic.His approval ratings are lower than Bush
and near Jimmy Carter levels so my opinion is not that uncommon.These people who claim they think he has done a wonderful job are pretty
delusional given the jobless recovery and how many times he has blatantly lied
to us. "If you like your MD or your health plan you can keep it". I won't bore you with the rest of the blatant lies...we are all
familiar with them.
RE: Schnee "The church wants liberals/Democrats to be there, and
leadership generally wants them, but plenty of rank and file members don't.
High liberal inactivity rates... oftentimes that's when church became a
source of stress."This is reality. The Mormon culture
doesn't want left-of-center people, even though some of the General
You left the thread Schnee, the thread was about Mormons voting against Obama,
and the liberals were posting how it is the church pushing the disagreement with
democrat party platform issues. Complaining the church was driving the issue.
Jumping in, the thread was missed with the claim of forcing religious views on
others. Again the liberal concept of not allowing individuals with like minds
and opinions that you disagree with from association or promoting their concepts
based on the straw man argument it must be the church forcing their opinion on
you. But you are forcing your opinions and concepts on others based
on your religious views or lack of religious views. You make the argument
liberals don't want to allow opinions or ideas they disagree with.
Ford DeTreese: "...Your shallow stereotypes of people who receive government
aid are offensive...Just label people as takers without ever asking why they are
in need....I can't support the GOP. Their view of society is so
ideologically predetermined that they are totally blind..."What
I find offensive is the constant accusations from the left that anyone who does
not advocate high taxes to pay for generous government welfare benefits is
"un-Christian".There are people in need and we need to help
them but I resent the fact that progressives insist that the government take
triple the taxes from me than what it needs to perform its constitutional
duties. It does this to relieve me of the burden of figuring out how to be
charitable on my own and direct my donations to causes that will truly help the
poor.Instead, bureacrats will spend and waste much of my
"donation" on largely worthless programs that build dependency instead
of lifting people out of poverty. THAT is un-Christian.
first off, I did not really like Mitt Romney for President. I did not think he
was conservative enough for me. I do not like Obama for a million reasons. The
First is I am almost a libertarian, and Obama wants more GOVT and more Laws and
more control and I want less. Second is he has no real respect for the country
that was founded more than 200 yrs ago. He wants to bring us down to a one
world govt and on a lower worldly level than we are now. I Hate obamacare and
the loss of freedom it has devoured. My family is in medicine and is aghast at
how poor health care is becoming. I can go on, but the one thing that never
enters into it is his race. It is of now importance at all.
They should do a poll of LDS in Europe. I think you will find a majority
supporting Obama. His policies make sense and and they are aimed at reducing
military intervention and helping those in need. Policies which have kept Europe
stabile for several decades.
@GaryOMy Uncle's family came from Orderville. It was
voluntary. If someone did not want to participate they didn't have to. If
you didn't pull your weight you weren't part of it.Explain
to me what happens in your liberal Utopia of communism/socialism when someone
decides they are tired of subsidizing those who don't contribute. How
exactly does the IRS handle that? Bottom line: It is NOT voluntary!If you and the rest of your liberal associates want to form a society like
that... Please be my guest. My hunch is that it won't work because you
need hard working conservatives to generate the wealth that liberals are only
interested in redistributing.
@procuradorfiscal"So, if your standing is being questioned,
here's betting it has nothing to do with you not being a
Republican."I was told by an Institute instructor that the Iraq
War was a holy war against Islam and that not supporting it would be going
against President Hinckley. I was told that my support for healthcare reform was
the views of Satan (there wasn't even an Obamacare then, this was
pre-election). I was told I needed to talk to the Bishop to repent over support
for same-sex marriage (in contrast to Elder Whitney Clayton's "feel
free to disagree without fear of sanction"). I was told by a home teaching
companion that I should get my views on choice in line with the church (guess
who stopped doing home teaching after that). I was told that not writing a
letter to my senators supporting the marriage amendment would be going against
the Prophet. The church wants liberals/Democrats to be there, and
leadership generally wants them, but plenty of rank and file members don't.
High liberal inactivity rates... oftentimes that's when church became a
source of stress.
@Irony Guy: "This Mormon supports Obama and thinks he has done a terrific
job against unbelievable (literally) opposition."I agree
completely.As far as Obama being a better Mormon than Romney, I also
agree with that but would add only that the reason for it is that mainstream
Mormons today tend to reject many basic tenets of the Book of Mormon that were
especially meant for our day.
@jsf" If I go to a church picnic I am not allowed to mention any
political ideas or feelings, or belief. "You can do whatever you
want at a church picnic and whatever you want in your churches with little
protest (notice that despite the large numbers of feminists that the LDS church
never face much of a challenge to all-male priesthood from outside the church
but pretty much just from members inside the church). The issue Democrats
complain about is when people try to put religious rules into law.
Chris B -"Even though I'm not Mormon, the Mormons expect
people to be self reliant."Really? Then why did Mormons
experiment with Communalism/Communism way back in the day?Ever heard
of Orderville, Utah?How about the United Order? . . . Ever heard of
that?Look it up.
Thanks for the laughs all. I'll be sure to re-evaluate why I dislike Obama.
I thought it was because the majority of what he does flies in the face of what
I believe this country stands for. I guess I was wrong. I didn't know this
animus came from his defeat of Romney who, much to my chagrin, I have worshiped
for years without knowing it. I am also going to go to a therapist to see if
they can unlock the memory of my GOP indoctrination session. I can't seem
to remember it. If only I had the ability to think for myself. Oh well.End
sarcasm. Let's be honest, the divide between D's and R's has
never been deeper. Based on social issues it is not surprising that more Mormons
lean right than left. I will never question someones' belief in the Church
based on politics though. To those that have ever felt this way, I am sorry. How
can we fix this short of changing the way we think? D's say R's are
close-minded but dismiss our viewpoint just as quickly as we do theirs.
I dislike the headline for this article. It makes it sound like 100% of Mormons
are 100% against Obama.Clearly, most Mormons are conservatives, and
many also live in the Far West which against Big Government.I am
Mormon and I have never voted for Obama because I am socially conservative. But
part of me wanted him to win both times, because I'm not really
conservative over all.Initially I liked his "hope and
change" idea after the disastrous Bush years. However, Obama's second
term has shown to me Obama hasn't been a great president overall.I do admire him for trying to get something done despite our broken
legislature. It seems the GOP is more about stopping Obama than getting the
people's business done. Hopefully soon we will learn that democracy means
compromise over partisan ideology.
Why? It's the faith with the highest rate of Republican members in America
and it's a Democratic President. Perhaps the better question is
why LDS members tend to be so conservative/Republican. (Then there's the
separate matter of whether the members of the church are welcoming to Democrats.
I know that the church strives to be welcoming to all but that doesn't mean
all members actually manage to do that.)
@Open Minded MormonI've noticed you employ a very similar
formatting to LDS libera------------------Probably
just coincidence though.--------Sarcasm, OFF!Barack leads the party of "no responsibility"Mormons teach
personal responsibility - no surprise they oppose himBarack keeps
telling us we need to spend more money to be better off financially.------------Thankfully many Mormons see right through his lies.Its just sad that more groups don't, although his approval rating
is at record lows.--------------Barack has promised a
lot, just to get elected, only to go back on his promises time and time
again.-----------Thanks Mormons for seeing this.I'm not even Mormon!
Re: "Your standing in the LDS Church is questioned if you are not a
Republican."Hmmmmm. Interesting comment. Kinda makes you
wonder.See, I've never been a Republican. And, my standing in
the Church has never been questioned.So, if your standing is being
questioned, here's betting it has nothing to do with you not being a
re:HutteriteActually Hutterite - the general authorities of the LDS
church are VERY careful NOT to suggest ANY political party or persuassion. Were
you aware of that? Latter Day Saints for the most part are very educated and
informed people and they are also very fair minded people. The Prophet Joseph
Smith taught "we teach them correct principles and let them govern
themselves". We measure Barack Obama by his policies which in turn violate
our core Christian principles and we then individually reject the creator of
those policies and ideologies. There is no LDS bishop that stands in sacrament
meeting and informs his congregation to make sure that they vote GOP.....only
that they participate in the political process and stay informed. We as Latter
Days Saints measure right and wrong by the un-changing , God - given ,
principles such as liberty, life , etc... Unfortunately your Socialist president
is clearly and consistently in violation with those core principles and in fact
seems to be almost purposely antagonistic toward anything Christian.
LDS liberal,YOur comments are word for word the same as what a
previous poster named Pagan used to say, but we don't see him around
anymore. Probably just coincidence.Sarcasm, off!Even
though I'm not Mormon, the Mormons expect people to be self reliant.
Barack encourages dependency on taxpayers.Mormons insist people be
fiscally responsible - barack thinks the answer to financial problems is to
spend more money.
To "Craig Clark" it isn't the LDS church leaders using the pulpit
to teach that it is conservatism. It is the Gospel as contained in the
Scriptures that teaches conservatism, and that collectivism or strong central
governments will lead to corruption and the destruction of our souls.To "LDS Liberal" actually, when you start going outside of the US,
most countries hate Obama. He has lied to them and they do not trust him. So,
logically, since most Mormons are not in the US, and most countries that have
LDS members in them do not like Obama, most Mormons in fact do not like
Obama.You claim Obama is trying to fix things, what is he trying to
fix? Unless he is fixing things from Clinton. The only difference between Bush
and Obama is the magnitude of their government programs. Bush and Obama are
both Progressives.You are mostly right when you said "I think
the Church has always been right, and many of it's members in Utah
are being misled and deceived by a political party wolf in sheep's
clothing..." You should know it is not a political party, but modern
Growing up in a blue collar home, my parents were devout Democrats. I, too,
voted Democratic until I realized they were moving our country further and
further to the left. Democrats controlled Congress from the mid-70's to the
mid-90's and Republicans continually COMPROMISED their principles "for
the good of the country." Now Pres. Obama blames Republicans as not
compromising. In reality, Senate Democrats (Harry Reid, in particular) refuse to
consider an legislation passed in the House. IMO, the democratic party
continually misleads and outright lies to America. Several years ago I realized
that politicians can say whatever they want without punishment or retribution.
The only recourse is to vote them out of office. With more and more people
dependent upon government handouts this is becoming more difficult. Why do I
dislike Obama? Because he is a lying Democrat. Want to know when he is lying?
Watch his lips; if they are moving, he is lying.
JoeCap2:Your shallow stereotypes of people who receive government
aid are offensive to those of us who know some of these people. Do you not find
anything un-Christian in the GOP's ongoing efforts to shift as much wealth
as possible to the top, leaving more and more people in need of government
welfare? Please don't tell me you don't even see the inconsistency
here. Just label people as takers without ever asking why they are in need.
Don't look beneath the surface to see actual causes and effects. This is
why I can't support the GOP. Their view of society is so ideologically
predetermined that they are totally blind to what is going on around them.
@KJB1Eugene, ORTo be honest, this kind of thinking is a huge part of
why I struggle with my activity in the Church. They can't claim to be
politically impartial while trumpeting ultraconservative talking points every
chance they get. I seriously doubt that God cares whether you're a Democrat
or a Republican...10:23 a.m. July 14, 2014======== Agreed!And remember my earlier post about those who can not
seperate Religion from Politics?Those who see everything as
either Black-or-White, orAll-or-Nothing...The -- If you are NOT a Republican, then You are NOT a Mormon!If you are NOT a Republican, then You are of the Devil![Yes - you know who you are....]I might disagree and argue with
them daily about Politics, or even Doctrine BUTI NEVER question
their Testimonies or Worthiness.I can simply state, That same
rule does not apply the other way...
The elephant in the room, that no one cares to address -- In
this poll -- Once again, Mormons are NOT considered
They're just doing what they're told. Not overtly, of course, but in
more subtle ways such as who gets paid for articles here.
KJB1 - God cares about far more important things than what political
party we affiliate with...I have my moments of struggle as well.
For me, it is more about the revealed truths and doctrines, and accessing the
Atonement to make me better than I can be by myself. The other petty stuff I
leave behind. Ultimately, religion exists to bring us closer to
God. The LDS Church does that for me. I listen to the Prophet and Apostles,
and am blessed to have local leaders who do not delve into politics. Above all,
I have agency and a loving Father in Heaven to guide me.
Have you noticed here and in other articles, those who support Obama rarely say
why. Instead, the degrade those who do not, or say Bush was worse, or that
critics are racist. Come Obama followers, what has he done to Erin your support?
Blacks as a whole vote democrat, does this mean the NAACP continues to openly
and covertly indoctrinate it's members. Since such a high number supported
Clinton, Gore, and Obama, are they by liberal definition racist? Are there not notable church leaders who were or are democrats. The church
excuse is a straw-man for liberals to attack, when their policies are not
approved by a majority of Utah residents. Liberals tell us how we
can't talk about any issue in a group assembly. If I go to a church picnic
I am not allowed to mention any political ideas or feelings, or belief. Liberals are telling us if we disagree with them, we have no right to
freely associate with like minded people. And gasp, it might have got mentioned
in a Sunday school class. Never have I heard party politics from the pulpit.
Oh wait I did, it had to do with the deployment of ICBMs on a track
system to be put in place in Utah and Nevada. Gasp, it wasn't a hawkish
war mongering republican stance.
Mormons believe the traditional family is the basic and most important unit in a
thriving society. Destroy this unit and you have destroyed the society.
President Obama is 180 degrees out of sync. For me, this trumps anything else he
KJB1: "I seriously doubt that God cares whether you're a Democrat or a
Republican..."I agree. But I think He does care about a number
of social issues that are directly supported or opposed by the various party
platforms.I think He cares if you are honest. I think He cares if
you support religious liberty. I think He cares if you take resposibility for
your actions and try to contribute to society instead of leaching off it. I
think He cares if you try to supplant REAL charity by trying to force everyone
to support government handouts.No one is suggesting that the GOP is
perfectly in line with religious beliefs, or that their members are not guilty
of various infractions. It's just that most Mormons think that the
GOP's platform more closely aligns itself with their personal beliefs than
the platform of the Democratic party. No big surprise there.To some
commentors on this forum, anyone who thinks this way must be under the control
of talk radio or sheep who can't possibly think for themselves. Personally,
I think that such people who throw those stones live in glass houses.
It is complete nonsense and very shallow reporting to suggest that the main
reasons Mormons reject Barack Obama is because he defeated Mitt Romney. This is
almost high-schoolish in its assumptions but typical of the liberal media and
their propoganda based journalism. Mormon rejection of Barack Obama came LONG
before Mitt Romney ever threw his hat into the presidential race and that is a
documentated fact. Mormon rejection of Barack Obama is because of his
anti-Christian ideology and his blantant and outrageous support of abortion via
Obamacare not to mention all the scandals and terrible economic policy
decisions. Finally Mormons see Socialism and especially Communism as THE worst
forms of government in human history and Barack Obama aligns himself with both.
The amount of speculations and name throwing at each other in these comments is
ridiculous."Well..it is because mormons are this, this, and
this." - a majority of the posters in this thread.Way to pull
out the vitriol! I am a member of the LDS Church and I never said
either way. I sometimes find President Obama doing a good job and at other
times..I am a lot less than enthusiastic.There is so many political
games being played and "he said" "she said" going on that we
need to replace everyone in Washington!It would be nice to start
with a completely clean slate from top to bottom in our Federal Government!
Irony Guy:1. Obama's foreign policy is a disaster even among
most liberals. The entire world is on fire and in large part because of
America's weakness and failure to act when it should and could have. 2. Obamacare forces corporations to fund the 'abortion pill' which
induces abortion at ANY stage of pregnancy. This is murder and is why Hobby
Lobby took their case to the Supreme Court and WON!! "It would be better
that a mill stone be hung around your neck and you drown in the depths of the
sea than to harm one of these little ones". These are the words of the
Savior and Obamacare FUNDS and FORCES the mechanism to take the life of these
same little children the Savior referred to. I have to wonder how
you as a member of the LDS church reconcile these things ...not to mention the
continuous scandals that role out of the White House on a monthly basis.
Intimidating people (using the IRS) to win elections is outright fraud and core
dishonesty which is in direct opposition to everything that we as Latter Day
Because Romney went tea party. Lost the election, but appealed to bitter
if A = B, and C = D, then logically A = D. I've got to go back to Jr. High
and re-learn my logic skills. World population = 7 Billion, Church population
15 million. Prove your theorem.If more Mormons live out side of US, And
Outside the US has a higher approval rating than stateside then that must mean
Mormons have a higher rating of Obama. A majority of foreign
countries have high disapproval rates for Obama. Greater than 50 percent,
currently down about 44 percent. by logic then if the greater percentage
disapprove of Obama, then actually a greater percentage of foreign Mormons
disapprove of Obama. Muslim counties have approval ratings down around 17
percent.The Bloomberg poll (US only)conducted from June 6 to 9 found
that respondents of Obama's performance on the economy, by 57 percent;
healthcare by 58 percent; the budget deficit, by 63 percent; on negotiating with
House Republicans, by 55 percent; and the Veterans Affairs wait list scandal by
51 percent. Not really a Mormon issue is it.
In far too many of these DN discussion, Obama is glibly called a liar by some
LDS readers (not all) who make their accusations based on egregious
misstatements and outright falsehoods. They might want to take a long hard look
at themselves first before casting the first stone at their President on the
issues of honesty and integrity.
@LDS Liberal Don't you mean that Obama has FAILED to fix the economy (the income inequality gap has done nothing but
increase) properly end wars (see no status of forces agreement)
pay down the national debt (this one is particularly funny) Immigration
reform (unless you count opening the borders and inviting illegals as reform) ....I could go on, but choose to correct your thoughts on some
points and some misconceptions on this board. There is a big difference between
being anti government/taxes/increasing the minimum wage, and being anti-poor,
which is a label liberals attempt to brand on all convervatives. If you pay
attention, the Church is a very large proponent of its people being self reliant
and give money to the poor because of their love for God and his children.
Liberals would rather people be "government reliant" and force them to
pay more taxes so that the government can spend (or squander it) as it chooses.
KJB1,You are not alone. I am one of very few non-Mormons where I
work. But on several occasions over the last few years close friends and
co-workers have confided in me that they are questioning the church for this
exact reason. I try not to influence them one way or the other, just listen
while they get some things off their chests and try to be supportive. But the
hard-right bent of the church does dissuade more than a few.
This really is not rocket science. Obama supports and stands for just about
everything that a practicing Mormon opposes. The short list: he does not tell
the truth, he favors gay marriage, he supports abortion, he supports government
support with no individual responsibility, he supports government payment of
birth control, and so on.What I truly cannot understand is how Harry Reid,
being in Obama's court, can claim to be practicing LDS.
As a member of the LDS Church I can only speak for myself regarding Mr. Obama
and why I consider him to be the WORST president in US history and a clear and
present danger to the US Constitution.1. My understanding of
scripture (New Testament, Book Of Mormon) regarding the influence of the
'natural man' or perhaps even Satan himself is that of contention and
the constant stirring up of contention amoung the people of the nation or any
nation for that matter. For the past 6 years it has been the stated goal of
Barack Obama to pit class against class, race against race, gender against
gender, and so on... The United States has NEVER been more polarized and divided
in my memory and it all started in Jan 2009. 2. Mr Obama has clearly
eroaded Christian values in this country with Obamacare and its mandates which
violate Christian core beiefs with the latest evidence coming from Little
Sisters of the Porr and Hobby Lobby.3. Religious freedom - among other
core freedoms are under assault since Barack came to power. 4. Mr
Obama's refusal to speak in front of Christian symbols is very telling.
@Steamroller"First, their champion Mitt Romney lost to him.
Secondly, most LDS members are sheep in the sense that there was once a notion
presented by one of the hierarchy of the church that you can't be a good
Mormon and a Democrat at the same time."Wow, talk about a
stereotype if I have ever seen one.
@ Tyler D: "There’s a whole strain within the Religious
Right today that except for the fact that they invoke his name on occasion (or
in their church title) you would never know these folks follow Jesus."No argument from me there. There are some Sundays I come home from
church with a sore neck from shaking my head at the complete sillyness of some
people.I believe that Elder Nelson said once "Christ had a
perfect church until he let all of us in"....
"If you like your plan you can keep it."Among other things
that he has said which has just been lies.
@Ultra Bob & EsquireIf this issue has anything to do with race
please explain to me why Mia Love is heavily favored to win in November. I
assume both of you are big fans of hers right?
To be honest, this kind of thinking is a huge part of why I struggle with my
activity in the Church. They can't claim to be politically impartial while
trumpeting ultraconservative talking points every chance they get. I seriously
doubt that God cares whether you're a Democrat or a Republican...
LDS Liberal"BTW -- Look what they did to Bob Bennett, and how they treat Jon M. Huntsman Jr."Oh those poor war
mongers. "Pres. Obama is trying to: Fix the economy,
stop the wars the Republicans started, and figure out a way to pay
for them, pay down the national debt, clean up the enviroment, increase education, stop wars, create jobs, increase the
minimum wages for the working poor, raise taxes on those who afford it,
while not raising taxes on those who can not, increase healthcare
availibility for all citizens, Immigration reform, stop
discrimination of minorities,"You don't stop those things
by increasing them or making them worse. He is trying with his mouth but not his
Some Mormon democrats knowingly or unknowingly are on a crusade to get the
church to eliminate personal accountability. After all, life would be so much
easier if God just let you do what you want and still be exhalted. Satan also
proposed to eliminate all personal accountability and proposed that everybody
should be exhalted no matter what kind of life that you live. Cheating your way into Heaven didn't work in the pre-existence and it
won't work here either.
Blaming the debt on the president solely, like so many republicans do, is
politics. Congress holds the purse strings and we have had a republican house
the last two years.
I previously submitted a comment merely stating that the paper would not like
the answer, and the comment was rejected. Now I see many comments with specific
answers (by the way, the article doesn't really address the answer to the
question.). So here are a few specifics, as like other commenters. This goes
beyond Romney. Before Romney ran, Mormons were opposed to Obama. The Church as
a whole is a partisan church. I've been told many times that one cannot be
a good Mormon and a Democrat, which I completely disagree. The culture in the
Church favors the GOP. The GOP uses the Church to advance its interests, and
the Church allows it. The newspaper for the Church is clearly GOP friendly,
which adds to the cultural pressure to support the GOP. There are other
reasons, including that the Church in the U.S. is white, conservative and middle
class, and the acceptance of racial minorities is very shallow. Add that to the
strong cultural bias towards the GOP, and there is no way Mormons in the U.S.
will accept President Obama. Again, I'm sure a candid discussion of this
issue will be heavily censored.
"A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a
Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."That refers
to President Cheney, right?
Why do Mormons not like Obama? Silly question. Because they are Republicans, and
the Republican leadership swore at the outset to oppose everything this
president supports, even if it is a GOP idea. They were very open about their
intent to destroy him. The better question is why so many Mormons are
Republican. Now that's one I haven't been able to figure out. What
does the GOP support, aside from traditional marriage, that has anything to do
with LDS doctrine?
Let's see -- Pres. Obama is trying to: Fix the economy,
stop the wars the Republicans started, and figure out a way to pay
for them, pay down the national debt, clean up the enviroment, increase education, stop wars, create jobs, increase the
minimum wages for the working poor, raise taxes on those who afford it,
while not raising taxes on those who can not, increase healthcare
availibility for all citizens, Immigration reform, stop
discrimination of minorities, You know -- ALL those things
the LDS Church is against...[sarcasm off]I think the Church
has always been right, and many of it's members in Utah are being
misled and decieved by a political party wolf in sheep's clothing...
"Obama wanted to invade Syria and probably will when the mid terms are over
and he's the most dangerous. He overthrew Lybia and replaced it with a much
worse Government."Where does this kind of pathetic nonsense come
from?Hate radio, perhaps?
"Why do members of the LDS Church disapprove of President Obama?"
Because he is not qualify - he has no real life experiences for the job and it
I live in Texas and it seems that most people here are very, very against Obama.
They are very highly religious, but most are not LDS. I would say that most
religious people are appalled with Obama, unless they listen only to His news
stations where they don't hear the truth.
It has nothing to do with Mitt Romney's loss (who was not a perfect
candidate either). It has nothing to do with his color. It has nothing do with
even being a Democrat, but it has everything to do with using methods of
deception, the flagrant disregard for the laws of the land and the trampling of
the Constitution. As it says in the Declaration of Independence:
"A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a
Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."That's
why the members of the LDS Church don't approve of his actions.
I could not find a graph of racial prejudice of blacks by religion, but if one
existed, I think it might look like the graph in this article.
@RedWings – “I actually heard someone at church discussing Ayn Rand!
There’s a whole strain within the Religious Right today that
except for the fact that they invoke his name on occasion (or in their church
title) you would never know these folks follow Jesus. Enjoyed your
comments… well, half of them anyway *smile*@Chris B –
“Mormons are fiscally responsible and yet barack has added more to the
national debt…”Doesn’t really explain their
support for Bush though, does it? Were it not for Bush cutting taxes (while
adding government spending) and driving our economy off a cliff in 2008 our debt
might actually be paid off by now.If you doubt this ask yourself
– if we kept the Clinton/Gingrich tax rates at the levels that produced
the first budget surpluses in decades, do you think Obama would have messed with
them? @ordinaryfolks – “Dissent keeps leadership on its
toes, and responsive.”Excellent observation – critics
are in fact are best friends but it’s a lot more comfortable to live in an
Utah as a state, like other red states such as Mississippi, would do anything to
undermine President Obama including hurting themselves. Utah supports other
state's Medicaid expansion while denying the poorest and sickest among
themselves. Why? Could it be that we are no smarter than Mississippi?
1) Contempt for Constitution, 2) Assaults on privacy & individual liberty,
3) Attacks on marriage, 4) Policies against religious freedoms, 5) never ending
refusal to accept responsibility while blaming others, 6) Pattern of lying, 7)
using race card, 8) Penchant for flying around giving speeches and fundraising
rather than staying in White House and working, 8)Negative impact on relations
with allies and weakness in foreign policy overall, 9) Extreme narcassism and
arrogance, 10) Failure to secure the border, 11) Never letting a crisis go to
waste, 12) His adherence to Saul Alinsky principles such as overloading the
system to bring chaos and constant belittling and marginalizing those who
don't agree with him. 13) Others
‘Join the discussion: Why do members of the LDS Church disapprove of
President Obama?’========== The Deseret News is so
"little knot-hole" myopic view of the world.The fact is, MOST Mormons are not Americans.Most non-Americas LIKE Obama, So, Logic says MOST Mormons LiKE Obama.Now, if the
"discussion" is 'Why do members of the LDS Church IN UTAH
disapprove of President Obama?’that's easy -- AM
radio and Fox News told them to...
Anyone looking for anything of substance in these comments should turn back now.
It's the same old hyper-partisan, my team is better than your team, over
the top rhetoric that both sides say they despise so much and then engage in so
I'm a Mormon and I think Obama is a fraud.He really has no real
experience doing anything other than pretending to be a leader.He
has surrounded himself with other dishonest people and they are all self serving
(like most of the politicians from all parties)I think that Obama is
loving golfing and traveling on Americas dime. He isn't
defending liberty and freedom. It is embarrassing how he is treating Israel.He wouldn't have stood with us in the fight in the Alamo.I think he should be removed from office, BUT it really isn't Obama I
have a problem with....it is all of the Americans that are supporting him even
though they also know he is a liar and a fraud.That is why our
Country is in real trouble. Americans have decided to take shortcuts and want
handouts.We have not solved any of the problems from 2007. We have
only thrown more money at it, and we are going to pay the consequences for
following Obama as he takes us down a path of lies and deceit. There
is still hope though.
Um, he's a Democrat, more specifically - he's NOT a
Republican.I am Un-Affiliated, but NON-Republican in Utah
automatically means Democrat to them.Many Utah Mormons can't
disassociate Religion from Politics, they see them as one in the same.They also dispise Senator Harry Reid for the same reason.BTW
-- Look what they did to Bob Bennett, and how they treat Jon M.
Huntsman Jr. You can't even SUGGEST compromising with
Democrats, or they will publically crucify you.
FreedomFighter41: "Mormons are taught sometimes by members at church and all
the time through conservative media that Democrats are evil and Republicans are
good."While I disagree with that statement, I wonder if you are
equally outraged when minorities and other groups are taught all the time
through liberal media that Republicans are evil and Democrats are good.
Members of the church have been taught things for over a century that have
become ingrained into the culture. Is any of this really surprising?
to JoeCapitalist2 moments ago...Yet, true believers deify the Free
Market and overlook the incompetence/greed of Mitt, Wall St, & their ilk in
2007 & 2008.
This Mormon voted for him twice. Let's be honest, many Mormons are very
conservative to the point of being irrational.
Simple.Obama beat Mitt Romney.So of course we're
gonna dislike Obama.
@Earnest T. Bass,"On Obama's worst day, he's still
significantly better than Bush was on his best day."You're
talking about golf, right? Because that's certainly not true of
their champion Mitt Romney lost to him."That could contribute,
but isn't anywhere near being a leading factor."Secondly,
most LDS members are sheep in the sense that there was once a notion presented
by one of the hierarchy of the church that you can't be a good Mormon and a
Democrat at the same time."There is more truth to the good
Mormon/Democrat thing than you care to admit. The church does chime in on
political issues if they're moral issues, and each and every time the
Democrats are on the wrong side of the issue. Plus there are issues like
financial well-being and self-reliance that are at odds with Democrat policies.
I know liberals who have left the church because it got in the way of their
political views. Never heard of a conservative leaving for that reason.We should pray for Obama (we should pray for everyone), but it doesn't
make him right.
The majority of leadership of the LDS Church is Republican.The
majority of membership of the LDS Church is Republican.Your standing
in the LDS Church is questioned if you are not a Republican.Your
standing in the LDS Church is questioned if you watch/read/listen to anything
other than approved Republican Party/FOX News/Drudge sources of information.And the DN asks why members of the LDS Church, in the United States,
disapprove of President Obama?
Because Obama is a Democrat.Mormons are taught sometimes by members
at church and all the time through conservative media that Democrats are evil
and Republicans are good.If Obama had been labeled a Republican, we
wouldn't have any problem with him. The truth is, Obama is far more
conservative than. Mitt Romney.It's that simple.
Of course LDS members don't like Obama. Societal and church pressures make
it incumbent on Mormons to vote in lockstep.Grown up religious sects
don't need to enforce conformity. Dissent keeps leadership on its toes,
and responsive. One day this will be the LDS value.
Obviously the only reason Mormons dislike Obama is because the church is full of
racists, right? There can't possibly be any correlation between his
unpopularity among largely conservative Mormons and all the lies he has told,
his big goverment policies, and his incompetence in doing his job.There have been so many that I have lost track of all the "phoney
scandals" where Obama has feigned outrage, promised to "get to the
bottom of the problem", and then done everything he can to cover it up.
When first moving to Utah many decades ago, we were sadly surprised at the non
diverse makeup of the state. Utah was so very different than most of the US. Our's and other's older relations, still living during the 1960s,
1970s and 1980s, were sharing their very angry vocal intolerance concerning the
changes in diversity throughout the nation. Very loud and vocal rants were
witnessed and heard by younger members of their families. This made so
many newcomers to Utah so very uncomfortable and sad hearing such hatred.Appears, unfortunately, that many middle aged and younger Utahns listened to
what their grandparents had to say, and took it to heart.The last few
years of comments on the DN boards, greatly support this historical fact of
Why are the views of Catholics not represented in this poll? Seems a glaring
omission to me.
I'm not a Mormon but isn't it obvious?Mormons are fiscally
responsible and yet barack has added more to the national debt than almost all
past presidents combined, and he will have reached that mark before he
leaves.He promised he'd cut the deficit in half in his first
term - he increased itHe promised the most transparent presidency
and had done the exact opposite.Mormons expect honesty - and barack
has been anything but that.
Irony GuyObama wanted to invade Syria and probably will when the mid
terms are over and he's the most dangerous. He overthrew Lybia and replaced
it with a much worse Government.
@ Ernest T Bass and Irony GuyBelieve what you want but history will
show Obama as one of the worst Presidents in U.S. History. Bush had his faults
but he will not be among Obama and Carter. History will record Bush as a
Why do members of the LDS Church disapprove of President Obama?It
has little to do with Obama personally so much as the political disposition
instilled in Latter-day Saints by a century of General Authorities using the
pulpit to make political conservatism virtually a tenet of the faith. An LDS
anti-government mindset goes back to the 1800s when the Church was at odds with
and at time in outright defiance of civil authority.
I find less and less of a correlation between the doctrines of my faith (LDS)
and either political party. Republicans seem to not understand
charity and helping their neighbor. During the last presidential election, I
actually heard someone at church discussing Ayn Rand! To even attempt to equate
an atheist like Rand to Christ is unbelievable to me.Democrats have
lost me in the headlong rush to embrace immorality and secularism in all its
forms. Rampant pornography, and the US AG's refusal to enforce existing
laws, have made it clear that the democtratic party has no room for me in its
"tent" anymore.Equating political platform with religious
doctrine is not easily done. The Church's letter at election time reminding
us that the "tenets of the Gospel can be found in the platforms of all major
political parties" is true. Lastly, I pray for the time when
members stop thinking that Glen Beck has any special knowledge because he is
LDS. He speaks only for himself and his wallet...
Because he is a Gadianton Robber. He works for and wants to overthrow the
freedoms of people everywhere. He is mereley carrying out what past presidents
started. Pretending to be against it with his words but not his actions.
Could it be the DN is all for inciting the base (Religion is under attack, Mitt
is wonderful, byu is a legacy program, Obama is a muslim socialist yada yada
If we look closely at Obama and measured what he has done against the steel
ruler that the Constitution represents, we will find that virtually nothing that
he has done is part of his duties. He signed ObamaCare, which allows the
government to force us to buy insurance and which forces employers to discard
their religious beliefs in order to provide the abortifacients required by
Obama. He legislates whenever he disagrees with bills that he has signed. He
has modified ObamaCare for political purposes. A President is forbidden to
legislate (Article 1, Section 1). He used the IRS for political purposes to
harass his political enemies. He invited thousands of illegal immigrants into
this country and provided buses to move them, and then demands that Congress
give him almost $4 billion to solve that problem. Then there is Benghazi, the
G.M. and Chrysler debacles, the Solyndra fiasco, Members of the LDS
Church expect honesty and integrity in their religious leaders. It should be no
surprise that they also expect Obama to have those qualities. He does not. He
has not earned our respect nor our admiration.
Why does DN use conservative funded researchers to offer explanations which
follow the opinions of their bosses over and over? Could there be any connection
with today's question?
This Mormon supports Obama and thinks he has done a terrific job against
unbelievable (literally) opposition. IMO Obama's a better
Mormon than Romney. Obama's foreign policy has kept us out of stupid wars
("contention is not of me"), while Romney would have had our soldiers
getting killed all over the landscape--Iran, Syria, Ukraine, Libya, Iraq, etc.
ad nauseam. He's done his best to get affordable health care to everyone
("charity is the pure love of Christ") while Romney considered the
"47%"--mostly elderly, disabled, or children--to be irresponsible and
not worth helping. Yes, Obama is closer to my heritage of faith than
Romney ever was.