What if a gay couple get a higher education and then want to get married. Do you
RBB"Sandy, UTYes, you can say it - Dan Quail was right. While
there are many single mothers who do an incredible job when the men in their
life have walked out, to intentionally have children outside of marriage is
simply irresponsible. While Hollywood may glamorize having children outside of
marriage, the vast majority of children born in the situation will face
significant disadvantages"-- Yep, them little fillies who
cain't get them a man should be punished by being alone and childless.
Let's forget that most single mothers did not plan to conceive and raise a
child alone, while we look down on those who have a wanted child they can
support and love.Somehow, there seems to be a lack of Christian
Charity in that
I understand the arguments made by 2Bits, but even if higher education
didn't necessarily lead to financial success, I think those who are highly
educated, might have more sophisticated thinking skills necessary to navigate
through issues that might lead to divorce, meaning that education in itself is a
value that often leads to deeper, critical thinking on the more important
matters in life.
All true --And when Gay Utahns can marry again, soon, their families
will be stronger. Mormon youth born Gay will be able to keep family
support, as the church accomodates more to their equality. At least one very
nationally prominent Gay mormon had to leave his family and pay for his own
education at Pasadena City College, but would have been BYU caliber if straight
and supported by his family.
A marriage of equals is always far superior than one where one is left feeling
lessor than the other. For too many times have I seen men using their
education and earning capability as a way to exert unjust influence on their
spouses. I know it goes counter to some of the most popular beliefs but it is
always better for a women who stays in a marriage because she wants to, not
because she has few other choice. That, and a couple that grows
together stays together. Education is a great way to stabilize a marriage
creating a relationship of equals rather than dependency.
My wife has a bachelors degree but never really used it professionally because
she became a full time mother to our six children. But, her education helped her
to be a much better mother. Her appreciation for education and her efforts to be
sure our children received a good education were so valuable to our children. My
kids all have a good education and they married people with a good education.
And, our grandchildren are now good students. I attribute much of that to my
Another data point:Research--the 1995 National Survey of Family
Growth--found, among other things, that single women who marry and later divorce
are worse off economically than single mothers who never marry. The
U.S. has high rates of child poverty and teen pregnancy compared to many/most
other industrialized countries. Other industrialized countries have more
generous supports for women and children in the form of subsidized childcare,
subsidized housing, cash assistance etc. Additionally, children who
live in segregated areas with large pockets of poverty are less likely to climb
out of poverty in adulthood. Combating poverty:Invest in and
provide high quality affordable education. Invest in and provide free
family planning education and contraceptives to reduce the number of unplanned
pregnancies. Provide resources for high quality childcare and extra
resources/support throughout the life of children growing up in poverty. Of course, this all goes against the belief of a majority of Republicans
who believe that most poor people have it easy due to govt. benefits; most
people are poor due to a lack of effort. Republicans also disagree with the
statement that hard work and determination are no guarantee of success. (Pew)
Because higher education helps increase the stability of marriage we ought to
encourage it?Not because higher learning is valuable all by itself?
@Pendergast,If you want to be intellectually honest... The Church
does not encourage dropping out to start a family. They encourage
both. I can give you hundreds of references where they encourage getting as
much education as you can, THROUGHOUT your life.They didn't say
"dropout and start a family". Do both.=======IMO the reasoning is... if you put it off, you become addicted to living alone
and not having to share your time and income (so a family becomes seen as a
hardship and you resist or resent your loss of freedom and $$$ when you start a
family). Better to start a family while you are young, humble, teachable,
flexible, maybe even in college and setting your adult habits. I did it.
Worked out GREAT!I got used to living on a limited income. And
I'm still very frugal today (even though I don't need to be anymore).
Those who get used to living alone as an adult... and THEN try to
start a family and live frugally... frequently look back with longing for the
days when they weren't married and could spend all their time and money on
Wow, twice this week I find common ground with "2 bits." A good
comment, with some excellent points.
"...higher education helps to enhance the stability of marriage, we should
cognitive dissonance between what Republican news outlets promote and what
Republican Presidential Candidates sell is astounding.Politics as
usual?Ric Santorum, a Romney nemesis in 2012, told voters President
Obama was a snob because he promoted higher education.Ric Santorum
has 3 academic degrees.Yet, Ric Santorum Republican Presidential
Candidate tells voters President Obama is a snob for promoting higher
education.The t-party wing of the Republican party laps-up the
nonsense.Maybe that's why the nonsense persists.Glenn Beck is notorious for lampooning higher education.The fact
that leading Republican radio talking heads lack academic credentials is well
documented.The DN is swimming upstream when it advocates facts which
leading Republicans love to lampoon.Sad.
More than higher education... MONEY (meaning a stable income, or lack of
financial stress) enhances the stability of a marriage.Higher
Education is good, but that ALONE doesn't enhance stability. It enables
you to get a good stable job, and THAT... enhances stability.Any
family counselor will tell you that by far the #1 reason families and marriages
struggle is... financial stress. Way more frequent than infidelity or ANY
other issue... it's money problems.Higher Education is great
(for your mind). But it only helps your marriage if that education translates
into being able to get AND keep a good job.People who get numerous
higher education degrees in nothing that would help them get a good job... have
the same financial stress that eventually ruins marriages as people who
didn't get higher education.IMO a good job is the big
differentiator... not how high you went in education. The higher
education prepares you for the good job, and that's why it's critical.
But higher education alone (with no job afterward)... leaves you just as
exposed to the problem that breaks up more marriages than anything else
I've heard that putting off 'pursuing family values' to pursue
pretty much anything is selfish, immoral, evil. I can't wait
for JCS, redshirt, or Mike R to counter my theory then spin & justify this
states alleged raison d'etre???????
I am not disputing your conclusions, but I have two questions. First, are you
suggesting that government encourage higher education and marriage? Second,
what are you doing to encourage paying for a quality higher education in Utah?
Are you pushing for better funding of our schools and making tuition more
affordable? That seems to me to be one way to put your money where your mouth
Yes, you can say it - Dan Quail was right. While there are many single mothers
who do an incredible job when the men in their life have walked out, to
intentionally have children outside of marriage is simply irresponsible. While
Hollywood may glamorize having children outside of marriage, the vast majority
of children born in the situation will face significant disadvantages.
Unfortunately, that is not what the politically correct crowd wants to hear.
They would rather demand more welfare programs than even suggest that men should
keep their pants zipped until they are ready to be men and take care of their
children. Society should stigmatize men to get women pregnant and then move on
- and the Courts should award adequate child support to give the child a
reasonable chance at success.