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Comments about ‘Is independence a viable option for BYU, or should Cougars focus on getting into Big 12?’

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Published: Thursday, July 10 2014 11:40 a.m. MDT

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Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@uteology

You refer to that time frame because you think that is what puts utah in the best light. It is obviously cherry picking, something you always accuse BYU fans of doing when they set a date and use that for reference because it puts BYU in the best light.

Honesty is this, utah has won more head to head recently but it has not been a domination, almost all the games have been very close. utah has also had a couple of better seasons recently but overall BYU has still had more good seasons and more rankings during that time. So even in the period you chose to put utah in the best possible light for your argument they still haven't had as many good seasosn and rankings as BYU has.

You can consider utah's last 15 years to be better if you want to and if it helps your fragile ego but it is by no means definitive and in fact a more than credible argument can be made to the contrary.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

Actually uteology the 1984 BYU team had almost 30 players that eventually played in the NFL. There were freshman and sophomores that were on that team that spread out over the following 7 years because of missions and reshirts. There were 13 sr's and jr's alone off of that team that played in the NFL.

I would like to see if you can show us a 4 year utah class, freshman through seniors, that has had 30 of its players move on to the NFL. I actually already know the answer to that but it will be more fun to let you research it yourself.

VegasUte
Las Vegas, NV

scenic view:

Did a byU fan really say the words "mediocre bowl"? A "mediocre bowl" is the most that byU can EVER hope for as an independent. For 2014, byU is already locked in to the worst bowl of D1, so bad that the MAC gave up their spot in the bowl and that is the ONLY reason byU has a bowl agreement.

Oh, but byU gets to keep all of the proceeds from that bowl because of it's desirous status as an independent, right? Well good luck netting any type of gain after byU pays all related expenses in getting the team, etc to Miami!

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

Duckhunter,

I have realized one of the reasons we differ in our recruiting numbers. You including the 2015 class which I haven't. Of course I made that clear in my posts. I purposely left out the 2015 class, because as you mentioned it still isn't complete so I think it wouldn't be fair to use it in any comparison.

As far as the future goes, I believe coaching and lack of consistent QB play have been the major issues, since we joined the Pac 12. I believe both of those issues have been resolved and the Utes will see a turn around starting with this season. So when we play again in 2016 I don't foresee any problems continuing our on the field winning ways over BYU. I also believe we will become a contender in the Pac 12 South Division about that same year so the timing will be perfect. Yes, you are correct, that is just speculation on my part so we will have to see.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@mormon ute

False.

Rivals was the only site that ranked utah higher than BYU for this last class in February and no surprise as dan sorenson, the utezone homer does those rankings. And even that was only because utah singed more recruits, BYU's average recruit ranked higher than utah's even on rivals.

Scout ranked BYU's class higher. 247 ranked BYU's class higher. ESPN ranked BYU's class higher.

In otherwords as I said BYU passed utah this last signing class, it isn't debatable and anyone can actually look it up on all of those sites and you once again need to do some research before posting so "frantically and emotionally". lol

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@Mormon Ute

No I did not include 2015, if I was to do that then rivals has them tied (although once again BYU's recruits are ranked higher individually), scout give utah a slight lead and 247 and espn both rank BYU higher.

I am talking about last February's signing classes. As I put in my other post ever site BYu rivals ranks BYU's higher and even rivals ranks BYU recruits higher individually utah just had more recruits sign.

It is all there for you to see.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

So I also checked your assertion that utah has had better recruit rankings every year since 2007. Once again false. Only one site "once again the utah homer site rivals) has it ranked that way. ALL of the other sites rank BYU ahead for all of those years other than the 3 I originally said which are 2011,2012,2013.

I understand why utah "fans" only want to refer to the one and only site that claims utah superiority but I think an aggregate is much more reliable and honest. In otherwords 3 sites all grade BYU better for all but those 3 years including last year and only one site grades utah better all those years, and as I've said even that site ranks BYU players higher last year.

Just the facts.

Whatsnu
Sandy, UT

Uteology

"Would you like to explain to us the NFL rating for Utah's Sugar Bowl MVP?"

Let me make it simple for you.

You completely dodged the question.

Brian Johnson was a complete bust in the NFL, in fact, BJ didn't even make an NFL roster.

So please explain the correlation between having the talent to play in the NFL and having the talent to be a very successful player in college.

-----------

btw, the reluctance of Utah fans to discuss any football history prior to the "bcs era", has absolutely nothing to do with the "current era", but everything to do with that fact that Utah has no history worth discussing prior to the "bcs era", and previously little since.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

Duckhunter,

I don't know what rankings you're looking at, but I just checked both 247 and ESPN and ESPN had BYU a mere two places higher than Utah and that is only because BYU had 4 more recruits in 2014. So Utah did not have more recruits in 2014 as you have alleged. Also, 247 has Utah 6 places higher than BYU. Scout appears to be the only source in line with your allegations and they have Uath with one more recruit than BYU. I'm really not sure what you are looking at, but it's not what is on the internet today for the services you are claiming to quote. Maybe your data is old and you need to update it. So it is I who is LOL. I urge you to take a look at the current info on those web sites. The pages I'm looking at say they were updated 7/13/2014.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

Whatsnu
Sandy, UT

Uteology

"Would you like to explain to us the NFL rating for Utah's Sugar Bowl MVP?"

Let me make it simple for you.

You completely dodged the question.

Brian Johnson was a complete bust in the NFL, in fact, BJ didn't even make an NFL roster.

So please explain the correlation between having the talent to play in the NFL and having the talent to be a very successful player in college.

----------------

Why? I never claimed such correlation existed. I even LOL at Jimmer fans that do, like you. I think I made it clear what the correlation was, more NFL talent equals better on field success AS A TEAM.

BJ's NFL rating was slightly below Max Hall. The difference BJ lead a much superior team to an undefeated season, the best mid-major team under BCS rules. Max lead his team to airport celebrations in September.

Y's little brother
Sandy, UT

"more NFL talent equals better on field success AS A TEAM"

Seriously?

First of all, that completely eliminates BJ as a factor in 2008, doesn't it, since BJ had absolutely ZERO NFL talent.

Second,

How do you explain BYU having more overall success than Utah during the Bronco/Kyle era if Utah supposedly had more talent?

AP Top 25 Finishes
Bronco 4
Kyle 2

11+ Win Seasons
Bronco 3
Kyle 1

MWC Championships
Bronco 2
Kyle 1

Bowl Games
Bronco 9
Kyle 7

Since 2006, Bronco has had more 11+ win, Top 15 seasons, than the Utes have had in their entire history.

Overall, even in the greatest period in Utah football history, BYU has still done better overall than Utah. That's not even debatable.

Kyle has had one great, flash-in-the-pan season, and little else.

CDM1525
West Point, UT

It would be nice if these 2 teams could play head to head and settle all of this nonsense once and for all to find out who the better program is. Oh wait......that's been done.

Y's little brother
Sandy, UT

CDM1525

It's already been settled; overall, BYU is better.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Y's little brother

Overall means more than just the 1980's.

Utah: 628–435–31 (.588), 13–4 (.765), 24 conf. titles. Pac-12

BYU: 484–369–26 (.565), 13–18–1 (.422), 23 conf. titles. Mid-Major

Also, 57–34–4

LonestarRunner
Salt Lake City, UT

2fer

Overall means on a national scale - something practically non-existent on the hill

National Championships
BYU 1 > Utah 0

Heisman Trophies
BYU 1 > Utah 0

AP Top 25 Finishes
BYU 17 > Utah 5 (it took Utah 100 seasons to crack the AP poll for the first time)

National Hall of Fame Players
BYU 6 > Utah 0

National Individual Award Winners
BYU 15 > Utah 0

Conference Championships in a conference someone younger than your great-grandfather remembers
BYU 23 > Utah 6

Bowl Games
BYU 32 > Utah 17

11+ Win Seasons
BYU 11 > Utah 2

10+ Win Seasons
BYU 16 > Utah 6

Head-to-head since 1962
BYU 29 > Utah 23

Head-to-head since 1972
BYU 26 > Utah 16

Typical Broadcaster
ESPN/BYUtv > PAC net/live streaming

Major Independent > Bottom dwelling P5

LonestarRunner
Salt Lake City, UT

Overall Record Since 1962
BYU 410-214-4 (66%) > Utah 323-269-4 (55%)

Overall Record Since 1972
BYU 365-158-3 (70%) > Utah 274-216-3 (54%)

Bronco/Kyle era
Overall Record
Bronco 82-34 (71%) > Kyle 75-39 (66%)

AP Top 25 Finishes
Bronco 4 > Kyle 2

11+ Win Seasons
Bronco 3 > Kyle 1

Conference Championships
Bronco 2 > Kyle 1

Bowl Games
Bronco 9 > Kyle 7

Of course Utah fans will whine about SOS, but the truth is, Bronco was outperforming Kyle in AP Top 25 finishes, 11+ win seasons, and conference championships BEFORE BYU became Independent and Utah moved to the PAC 12.

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

2fer

It's nice that U padded your early historical record with wins (and losses) against teams like YMCA, Ogden High, Fort Douglas, Salt Lake High, Hawaii Nat'l Guard, Carlisle Indian School, Colorado A.C., 12th Infantry, 9th Cavalry, All Hallows (seriously?), Denver, Colorado Mines, Oregon Short Line, and Utah Alumni (LOL!), but unfortunately for U, Utah never accomplished anything on a national scale in 60+ years of beating up on teams that were even more mediocre than U.

The gravy train eventually ended and U were forced to join a real conference in 1962.

Since then, you've been dominated by a team that has actually accomplished something on a national scale.

2BCSWINS
West of I15, UT

@Troytown...."I guarantee that NOBODY outside of Uteville would consider Utah to even be in the same stratosphere as Alabama.

Utah's win over Alabama was the equivalent of Appalachian State's win over Michigan.

Nothing more than a fluke upset."

The jealousy you have of the utes litterally makes my day...LOL

@Sky walker....."The only reason Utah fans only want to talk about head-to-head success is because Utah has been dominated by BYU on a national scale, FOREVER.

In fact, BYU's domination has been so complete on a national scale that Utah fans don't even try to dispute it."

Huh?? Did utah and byu play somewhere else on a national scale that we don't know about?? Not sure how a national scale would change the fact that Utah owns the cougies on the field where it actually matters! Not where cougies make things up like national scale to make them feel better....LOL!

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

2b

BYU and Utah compete throughout the season on a national scale.

Unfortunately for U, that usually equates to BYU having a better overall record, a higher national ranking, and more success overall than the Utes.

AP Top 25
Bronco 4
Kyle 2

11+ Win Seasons
Bronco 3
Kyle 1

Conference Championships
Bronco 2
Kyle 1

Bowl Games
Bronco 9
Kyle 7

All accomplishments that are indeed noticed on a national scale.

Unfortunately for U, hardly anybody outside of the Wasatch Front pays much attention to the annual results of the BYU-Utah slugfest except for watching highlights of the Utes rushing the field three times for one victory over a supposedly mid-major program, which sort of destroys in the national view any myth on the hill about Utah fan indifference to the rivalry.

TheSportsAuthority
Arlington, VA

2b

"The jealousy you have of the utes litterally[sic] makes my day...LOL"

The BYU jealousy that you mock is nothing compared to the jealousy of the kids on the hill to BYU's Crystal Football National Championship trophy.

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