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Comments about ‘Is independence a viable option for BYU, or should Cougars focus on getting into Big 12?’

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Published: Thursday, July 10 2014 11:40 a.m. MDT

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Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@mormon ute

Ah the irony of your comment "The problem is you can't handle it when the facts don't support your opinion... As you have said to others, do your research." Well I have to thank DeepBlue who already did it for me.

Scout
4 star recruits on Utahs Roster = 3 ( Poutasi, Lutui, Barton)
4 star recruits on BYU's Roster = 12 (Warner, Langi, Kearsley, Hinds, Mangum, Apo, Stout, Rowley, Kaufusi, Wilson, Bills, Hine)

Rivals
4 star recruits on Utahs Roster = 7 (Lewis, Hansen, Salt, Thomas, Poutasi, Barton, Scott)
4 star recruits on BYU's Roster = 10 (Warner, Kurtz, Langi, Kearsley, Hinds, Mangum, Apo, Kaufusi, Bills, Matthews)

ESPN
4 star recruits on Utahs Roster = 2 (Lotulelei, Law)
4 star recruits on BYU's Roster = 9 (Blackmon, Nacua ESPN300, Warner, Kearsley, Hinds, Pauu, Mangum ESPN300, Apo, Kaufusi)

As you can see the only one of the 3 major recruiting sites that even has it close is rivals, the utah "fan" bible, and even they have BYU superior in "high" level recruits. I think the lesson here for you, even though you won't learn it, is do it for yourself before making false claims. lol

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

talkinsports
Gilbert, AZ

Uteology

It's laughable that you choose only to compare bowl opponents "in the era just ended", since that's the only "era" in which Utah was a regular bowl participant.

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No, the reason WAC data is irrelevant today is because both programs have significantly changed since then.

Unless you are claiming that Utah is the same program we were in the WAC?

I concede that BYU clearly dominated a one team WAC, while Utah was horrendous. We couldn't even compete with BYU those days let alone make bowl games. McBride describes it the best:

"In the early years, I think BYU felt that they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about how BYU would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10. They used to come into the Utah game always talking about who they would be playing in their bowl game.... When we started beating them, they stopped talking about their bowl game."

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Duckhunter

How does the NFL rate the talent at both schools?

As of today players like Apo, Stout, Rowley, Kaufusi are 4 star players as much as Heaps is a 5 star player.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

Duckhunter,

I didn't make false claims. I responded to your claim that BYU has been attracting higher ranked recruits than Utah for years. So I looked up the past several years of recruiting classes on Yahoo sports which was reporting Rivals rankings. The stats you have re posted aren't an apples to apples comparison, but only a snapshot of the rosters and still doesn't support your claim of BYU out recruiting Utah for years. So you still haven't proven your point although you may have proven BYU currently has more four star recruits on the team, that does nothing to support your overall claim of years of recruiting dominance.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@mormon ute

But I didn't make a claim that BYU had "recruiting dominance", once again comprehension my friend is important. I said BYU has gotten more "highly ranked recruits" than utah and the rosters prove that. BYU has more "highly ranked" recruits than utah has. It is indisputable. The problem is you can't handle it when the facts don't support your opinion.

You see the recruits are rated on a 5 star system. That means 4 and 5 stars are "highly rated, 1 and 2 stars are lowly rated, and 3 stars are middle of the pack. utah over the last several years has had most of their recruits be 3 stars, BYU has had some lower rated guys but has indisputably had more "highly rated" recruits (4 and 5 star) than utah has.

You're just going to have to swallow your pride and either slink away and never reply or simply aknowledge that you are wrong because the facts show that you are inarguably wrong. Not only that you claimed I said something I didn't just to try to make your false point. lol

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

Uteology

"No, the reason WAC data is irrelevant today is because both programs have significantly changed since then."

No, the reason why U like to pretend that college football history began in 2003, is because Utah's history on a national scale prior to 2003 is non-existent.

It's funny how the "official line of demarcation for "relevance" is defined by the kids on the hill.

NOTHING before 2004 counts in football.
NOTHING after 2005 counts in basketball.

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

Uteology

"How does the NFL rate the talent at both schools?"

It's hilarious how you have to frantically switch to an entirely difference, and irrelevant, rating system because you crashed and burned with college recruit rating system.

Would you like to explain to us the NFL rating for Utah's Sugar Bowl MVP?

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

Duckhunter,

My pride isn't the issue and I have no reason to slink away. I have proven my point and you have proven the current rosters favor BYU, but as my numbers show that is likely a recent issue due to the Ute's struggles in the Pac 12. A bigger issue is what each coaching staff is able to do with the players they have. Since BYU now has a few more 4 star recruits, let's see what they are able to do with them. Too bad this season won't be a good measuring stick, since there is no head to head game and BYU's schedule is dramatically weaker than Utah's. I'm looking forward to the next game between our two teams and then we will see who has managed to make the most of the talent they were able to get.

Tomahawk Red
North Salt Lake, UT

Taysom4Heisman
Heber City, UT

There are these sweet inventions called airplanes that make travel quick, and isn't much different from Austin to Norman than it is than from Provo to Morgantown.

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Austin to Norman: 372 miles
Provo to Morgantown: 1,929 miles

Whatsnu
Sandy, UT

Uteanymous

"How does the NFL rate the talent at both schools?"

It's quite obvious that according to Uteology's "NFL ratings" criteria, Brian Johnson wasn't good enough to be a Division 1 starting QB.

Which makes his entire rating argument bogus.

Tomahawk Red
North Salt Lake, UT

scenic view
Baltimore, MD

So what you're really saying is the networks couldn't care less about Utah and even being in a P5 conference can't help.

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I'm not saying anything. I'm refuting a ridiculous claim from a BYU fan who thinks the Pac 12 has some conspiracy to keep Utah off the marquee networks. Because he's mad the P12 took Utah over BYU, he's now trying to make believe that the conference is also spurning Utah, too. It smacks of jealousy and bitter resentment, I agree. But that was his argument.

The networks are not choosing many Utah games right now because Utah is not a very good team right now. They are trending downward in conference play and networks are always looking for the best teams to televise. That shouldn't be too hard to understand.

Tomahawk Red
North Salt Lake, UT

thebigsamoan
Richmond, VA

Don't fool yourself. You know and I know BYU is being snubbed by the so called P5 conferences not because they don't think we can compete but simply because they hate Mormons.

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Oh boy. Here we go again. *shaking head*

Always a conspiracy theory with you people isn't it?

It couldn't possibly be that the ACC/SEC sees BYU as a non-Power Five opponent... because they are NOT IN THE POWER FIVE, now could it? Why allow BYU? Based on WHAT? If You allow BYU to count, why not Boise... why not Fresno... why not Northern Illinois? Count BYU and the ACC/SEC knows they would have to deal with other mid-majors wanting the same thing.

Do you even realize how ridiculous these whack job conspiracy theories make you guys look?

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@Mormon Ute

Those are completely different subjects, and not what you falsely tried to call me out for. Also the fact BYU gets more highly rated recruits is not a "recent issue due to the Ute's struggles in the Pac 12" it is an 'it's ALWAYS been that way issue' based on BYU having been the superior program for such a long time and BYU's advantage with LDS kids that are highly ranked recruits.

utah has for 3 of the last 4 years had a higher rated class, although last year BYU passed them back up again but BYU has consistently gotten individual recruits that were more highly ranked. utah's struggles the last few years didn't change something that was previously a utah advantage, utah has never had that advantage, utah just got a small 3 year streak of 3 star heavy classes. We can discuss your other off topic points in another post.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Uteanymous

Uteology

"How does the NFL rate the talent at both schools?"

It's hilarious how you have to frantically switch to an entirely difference, and irrelevant, rating system because you crashed and burned with college recruit rating system.

Would you like to explain to us the NFL rating for Utah's Sugar Bowl MVP?

------------

Let me make it simple so that even BYU fans can understand.

A) Having MORE NFL players equals better results on the national stage

* The Sugar Bowl MVP had a team with SIX NFL players drafted that year, 13 overall that played a significant role on that team.

* BYU has had 2 players drafted over the last 4 years, no wonder you have airport celebrations in September.

B) ALL recruiting sites rank Utah's talent overall better than BYU over the last few years.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@Mormon Ute

As for "who does more with what they have" well I would say utah is going to need to do more with what they have because what they are getting is plummeting, even from the slightly above average stuff they've been getting the last 3-4 years. Their class this year is nothing spectacular, in fact they just got a sorta commit from some 3 star out of California whose only other offers were SJSU and some D2 school. Congratulations? Even at that the kid said he was committing but was still going to "look around and field offers" so how is that for a recruit that is just sold on the ute's no matter what. lol

I think whittingham and co have finally realized that pac12 membership IS NOT going to score utah a bunch of highly rated recruits, it looks to me like they are going back to their proven previous system of finding overlooked kids with potential and trying to develop them. I think it may be to late for whittingham but I guess we'll see.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

Uteology

"No, the reason WAC data is irrelevant today is because both programs have significantly changed since then."

No, the reason why U like to pretend that college football history began in 2003, is because Utah's history on a national scale prior to 2003 is non-existent.

-------------

And that's why I refer to the BCS era which started in 1998 and the MWC was established in 1999?

Feel free to continue using WAC data. I think on the field results clearly show which data is relevant and which is not.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

After googling the subject, and doing a little research. The reason the Big 12 won't invite BYU to join is because they are in the middle of a TV contract. By addition two more teams the revenue would be cut $2 - $3 million per current team. Dividing the pie by 10 pays the current members more than dividing the pie by 12. Also, geographical location is a concern. Once the TV contract expires, BYU may very well get an invite. We shall see.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

Just looked, and it seems the 1984 BYU (WAC) team also had 13 players that made NFL rosters.

Again, over the last 4 years BYU has had TWO players drafted.

That should give BYU fans an idea of where BYU talent level was, in the WAC, and where BYU talent level is today.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@spokane ute

That might be the most honest post you have ever had. But you are a bit late on that point, I have made it several times as have several other BYU fans. While the big12 acknowledges that BYU add's value they do not add enough value on their own to offset what each of those 10 schools would lose by adding BYU and another school. Plus adding BYU alone only gets them to 11 which does not allow them to add a championship game so they still don't get that money by adding BYU.

There needs to be another school out there that paired with BYU brings in enough more to more than offset a twelve way split instead of a 10 way split. At this point they don't think anyone does that.

Even so who knows if they will invite BYU, there are other factors involved besides just money. Personally I like independence but for better bowl access it is apparent BYU needs to figure something out and if that means a conference affiliation, if an invite ever came, then I think they'll have to do it.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

Duckhunter,

Now it is you who has a comprehension issue or you are just trying to revise history for your own benefit. As I posted earlier Utah had a far higher ranked recruiting class in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. That is each of the past four years, not 3 of the past 4. BYU did not surpass Utah in 2014, although they did narrow the gap some. Utah has consistently out recruited BYU for a long time. Since you brought it up, I thought I'd go back even further to see how far I have to go to find a year when BYU had a higher ranked class. I had to go back to 2007 to find one. So that's 7 years straight starting in 2008 the Utes have had higher ranked recruiting classes. The results of that have also been born out on the field as the Utes have beaten BYU 6 of those 7 years. I don't know how I can make it any more clear than that.

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