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Comments about ‘Is independence a viable option for BYU, or should Cougars focus on getting into Big 12?’

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Published: Thursday, July 10 2014 11:40 a.m. MDT

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Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Rockwell

As far as bowl records go, BYU has played more ranked teams in bowl games than Utah has played bowl games. Once again, absolutely NOBODY cares about your mediocre wins over other mediocre teams. Certainly not the polls.

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Sorry, no one cares about what you did in the WAC, lets look at the current era that just ended.

Let's look at BYU's BCS Resume:

* No undefeated seasons
* No BCS bowls
* No BCS Bowl wins
* No top 10 finishes (Utah 2, TCU 4)
* Losing record against P5 teams
* Losing record against top-mid majors (3-9 vs. Utah, 2-5 vs. TCU, and 1-3 vs. Boise)

Over all accomplishments:

* BYU had 4 MWC titles (Utah 4)
* BYU had 5 AP top 25 rankings (Utah 4)
* BYU had zero national title contenders (Utah had one in 2008, best mid-major team under BCS with 16 first place AP votes).

Bowl Games:

* 23% of BYU’s bowl opponents were ranked in the AP top 25 (36% for Utah)
* 32% in the AP top 30 (55% for Utah)
* The difference, Utah went 10-1 (91%) and BYU 6-5 (55%)

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Rockwell

ELEVEN of BYU's 13 bowl-winning teams finished the season ranked in the AP.

Only FIVE of Utah's 13 bowl-winning teams finished the season ranked in the AP.

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That's because we mostly beat our opponents and you mostly lose to yours.

Here's an example from 2005:

Utah (6-5) 38
Georgia Tech 10 (AP #24 - Final AP unranked)

BYU (6-5) 28
Cal 35 (AP unranked - Final AP #25)

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@sammyg

Sorry chum, BYU's past accomplishments carries them so much farther than the Rodney Dangerfield's of the PAC10.2.

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So true, it's been 40+ years and still waiting for the call.

"In the early years, I think BYU felt that they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about how BYU would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10.

They used to come into the Utah game always talking about who they would be playing in their bowl game.... When we started beating them, they stopped talking about their bowl game."

-- Ron McBride

Riverton Cougar
Riverton, UT

"Army won a bunch of titles back in the day, are they relevant? Even more recently CU won a title in 1991, are they relevant?"

Apparently they are more relevant than Utah, or else at least one of Utah's undefeated seasons would have lead to a national championship.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@mormon ute

Comprehension is your friend. I said other than pac12 membership utah has nothing "superior" to BYU to offer recruits, and that is a fact. Both facilities are nice enough, just because utah put their logo on their hot tub seats isn't going to sway a recruit. BYU's stadium has 20,000 more seats than utah's, and BYU usually has close to that many more people in it than utah has in theirs, that isn't even something you should try to use to make a "superior" argument.

As for the recruiting, well those are just the facts, BYU gets more highly ranked recruits than utah just about every single year. utah has never gotten a 5 star recruit, BYU has gotten several, utah almost never gets 4 star recruits either, BYU usually gets some every single year. What utah has done for a few of the last 4-5 years is get more mid level (3 star) recruits whereas BYU has taken some 2 star types. That is why utah's overall ranking in some, not all, of those years was higher. But so what? No recruit cares that utah got more 3 stars. Kind of a silly argument to try to make.

scenic view
Baltimore, MD

Uteology

Yes, Utah made it to the promised land of P5 membership, so let's what it's gotten U.

4-5 with a mediocre bowl in El Paso

3-6 with no bowl

2-7 with no bowl

Except for a nice paycheck to build shiny new facilities from which to watch bowl week, I'm not seeing how it's improved Utah's football program one iota.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ DPTCougar

Olympic sports and basketball typically play a series during road games. For example, in basketball Arizona would play UCLA on Thursday and USC on that Saturday or Sunday. Meanwhile Arizona' travel partner, Arizona State, Would play USC on Thursday and UCLA on Saturday or Sunday. Teams don't literally travel together, but playing road games in a series is a great way to minimize travel costs and days of school missed. BYU being so far away, and not having a travel partner is a huge deal.

Riverton Cougar
Riverton, UT

"That's because we mostly beat our opponents and you mostly lose to yours."

@Uteology,

Interesting that you bring that up. After all, you Ute fans call BYU's schedule weak because they don't beat ranked opponents. However, much of the time BYU beats a ranked opponent who goes unranked because BYU beat them. You guys made that point in 2009, although Oregon State finished unranked because BYU beat them so bad. You can't have it both ways. From my observations, Ute fans pull whatever card suits them at the moment, even if it contradicts previous assertions; recruitment stars (they're important when Utah gets a highly ranked recruit, but not so much when BYU gets one), strength of schedule (if they had a bad record, it's because they had a strong schedule, but if their schedule is weak it is because Utah beats them so their SOS drops), etc.

Speaking of strength of schedules, have you noticed that winning teams have weaker strengths of schedules and losing teams have stronger SOSs? Whose SOS is stronger: Oklahoma's or Kansas'? Alabama's or Vanderbilt's? Oregon's or Colorado's? Just some food for thought.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

CougFaninTX:

"Imagine a conference with BYU, Boise, SDSU, Houston, Cincy, UCF, Conn, SMU, Air Force, USU, CSU, S Florida."

I can imagine that. But I imagine that it's pretty sad. Haha! Midmajors forever.

Tomahawk Red
North Salt Lake, UT

BlueNtheFace
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

Don't fool yourselves. A huge piece of you would die. You couldn't hold the conference affiliation/sticker contest winner over our heads any longer.

-----------

Before you get too upset at cool-headed Ute fans, just realize that your entire post is moot.

BYU will never get into a P5 so you'll never have to worry about leveling the playing field with us.

Utah will always be a power conference team. BYU will always be a mid-major. The field will never be level between the two again.

LOL

Tomahawk Red
North Salt Lake, UT

skywalker
Palo Alto, CA
Mormon Ute

If Utah is such a competitive, why is Utah routinely ignored, even by their own conference, when it comes to which games national broadcasters choose to televise?

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The Pac 12 has absolutely no influence whatsoever which of its games are selected by ESPN and Fox. The only thing they control is P12 Network, which never carries marquee games.

scenic view
Baltimore, MD

tomared

"The Pac 12 has absolutely no influence whatsoever which of its games are selected by ESPN and Fox. The only thing they control is P12 Network, which never carries marquee games."

So what you're really saying is the networks couldn't care less about Utah and even being in a P5 conference can't help.

thebigsamoan
Richmond, VA

@ekute
Layton, UT

We lost the battles, were rejected everywhere we turned... but... "We won the war!" lol.

Don't fool yourself. You know and I know BYU is being snubbed by the so called P5 conferences not because they don't think we can compete but simply because they hate Mormons. Any other reason is preposterous. BYU's record and history is far superior than most members of the P5 and they have the gall to mocked BYU and consider it as a non factor mid major program? Let's be real! BYU is on the only team outside of the P5 that won a NC and a Heisman Trophy, didn't they? Stop the foolishness!

Rockwell
Baltimore, MD

Uteology

"That's because we mostly beat our opponents and you mostly lose to yours."

LOL at your extremely disingenuous spin!

In 17 bowl games, Utah has only played 6 pre-bowl AP ranked teams, and the Utes lost to two of those teams.

The ONLY team that dropped out of the AP ranking after losing to Utah was the barely ranked Georgia Tech team you cite as an "example".

Carson
Provo, UT

BYU is not being snubbed by the P5 conferences, they see the Y as a mid major program,(Which it is, and hard to work with too). If the Y was as great as you and other posters imply they would have already been included. It has nothing to do with the persecution claim! BYU's record and history has not impressed the P5 conferences. take the blue goggles off, no invite will be coming. Stop the foolishness, and face the facts!

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ thebigsamoan

You need to check your persecution complex at the door. BYU is not being left out because people dislike the LDS Church. BYU is being left out because they come with a ton of baggage, a huge ego, and they haven't been able to prove that they can consistently compete against P5 teams. Also it has been pointed out that they are in a weird spot. Conferences are all expanding East, not West.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

Duckhunter,

The problem is you can't handle it when the facts don't support your opinion. Recruiting class rankings are based on the rating of the recruits in each class. The only way for Utah's classes to be ranked so much higher than BYU is to have more highly ranked recruits than BYU. As you have said to others, do your research. That way your opinion might carry some weight.

Cosmo1974
Woods Cross, UT

Just because BYU has losing records against teams like Utah and TCU, who are not doing so well in their respective conferences right now, does not mean that BYU would be as bad if they joined a P5 conference. They very well could beat every team their first season, if they ever get to join. While that is not a likely scenario, my point is that no one can say BYU will be a terrible or great team in the Big 12 or any other P5 conference without actually playing the games. You can't use past results to predict future ones.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@Rockwell

In 17 bowl games, Utah has only played 6 pre-bowl AP ranked teams, and the Utes lost to two of those teams.

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When was the last time BYU played a top 10 team in a bowl game? I recall it was 1996 about 18 years ago, Utah has done it twice over the last 6 seasons.

In the era that just ended:

* Utah played 4 AP ranked teams in bowl games (two in the top 10)
* BYU played 3 (zero in the top 10)

Utah played tougher teams and were 3-1 (75%) while BYU was 1-2 (33%).

2003: Utah 17 Southern Miss 0 (AP #28 - final #42)
2004: Utah 35 Pitt 7 (#18 - #25)
2005: Utah 38 GTech 10 (#24 - unranked)
2008: Utah 31 Bama 17 (#4 - #6)
2010: Utah 3 Boise 26 (#10 - #9)
2011: Utah 30 GTech 27 (#30 - unranked)

1999: BYU 3 Marshall 21 (AP #11 - final AP #10)
2001: BYU 10 Louisville 28 (#23 - #17)
2005: BYU 28 Cal 35 (#31 - #25)
2009: BYU 44 OSU 20 (#16 - #27)
2011: BYU 24 Tulsa 21 (#34 - unranked)
2012: BYU 23 SDSU 3 (#30 - unranked)
2013: BYU 16 Washington 31 (#33 - #25)

talkinsports
Gilbert, AZ

Uteology

It's laughable that you choose only to compare bowl opponents "in the era just ended", since that's the only "era" in which Utah was a regular bowl participant.

Spin it anyway that helps you sleep at night, but it won't change these facts:

16 of BYU's 32(50%) bowl opponents finished the season ranked in the Top 25 in both polls.
4 of Utah's 17(24%) bowl opponents finished the season ranked in the Top 25 in both polls.

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