Haywood if good but I think he has already reached his peak. Meaning he will
never really be worth the amount of money he will cost the Jazz. Trouble is,
the Jazz has lost many good players by not paying enough to keep them. We will
be a long time making the finals by getting top players in the draft and then
after two or three years training them for other teams.I'm looking
forward to the coming season with new coaches and new players. I hope they will
be a team that will give 110% every game.
Lock the doors at ESA - in the long run the Jazz will be history and the family
will pocket millions of cash (which they deserve) as they sell out. The problem
is they can't turn ESA into a dealership so what do they do with the
building once gone?If the family were serious they would put a
serious product on the floor starting with a recognized staff (head coach and
assistants), marquee player or two, replace Lindsey and get serious at every
turn in the road. I hope they let Sloan coach from his season ticket seats and
have Snyder be the mouth piece while they bring O'Conner back what ever the
cost and let him field a real team.
I think you're all absolutely wrong. Hayward is our best player. Period.
You can't pay this much for a role player. What if the next Wesley Matthews
comes along in the next 2 years? I would want money to keep him this time
The Jazz should have kept Al Jefferson or Millsap and let Kanter earn his
minutes. Deng is the man the Jazz should be after. Hayward has proven he is
not a leader. His stats are padded due to playing on a horrible team last year.
I hear it but he hasn't signed on the Jazz's dotted line yet, the Jazz
have been saying this for months now.
I really don't understand Jazz fans. We let Jefferson and Milsap walk last
year and now you want them to let Heyward go this year. Yes this deal is
overpaying him but every player in the NBA is overpayed. If we don't pay
Heyward we will have to overpay some washed up player or two just to get to the
minimum salary set by the NBA. Heyward will be better with actual coaching this
year. And this is not AK all over again. Not matching this contract will set the
Jazz rebuilding plan back another couple of years and we will always be in the
I think that last year because the Jazz were tanking and because the coach was
less that adequate, it very much affected Hayward as well as all of the Jazz
players. With an apparant excellent coach this year and a great draft, it will
be a very different situation. The Jazz are going to thrive and so will Gordon
Hayward. If the Jazz do not match, it will turn out to be the same situation
that they didn't match Portland's first offer a few years ago. That
was because they had no money, which was tied up in the previous Kirilenko
debacle. Kirilenko stopped working once he got his max contract. No way will
Gordon do that. Look for him to have a great season, whether with the Jazz or
Charlotte. The Jazz should match the offer. Gordon will be loyal. Go Jazz!
I hope...Lindsey considers a sign and trade...the only players i see that would
be good for us...would be Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Cody Zeller...i am not sure
if the Hornets are willing to part ways with either...but if we do get
both...it'll boost our lineup and add depth...think about it...Favors
Kanter MKG Exum Burke...Burks Zeller Hood Gobert...might as well add Jeremy
Evans on the trade...and ask for some draft picks...i hope Lindsey do the
numbers...on how much money is going to take...to extend Kanter...Burks...Burke
and Exum...Gordon Hayward...as good as he is...he'll turn out like Joe
Johnson or Rudy Gay...the kind of guys that are not worth max money...but gets
We might all have different opinions about signing Hayward to this max contract.
If the Jazz do match the offer I really hope that when the season begins that
we don't see fans booing Hayward. Our best hope at that point is that he
settles back with the team and feels positive about being here. After voicing
our complaints in these forums we then need to get back to the business of being
the best fans in the NBA and give the team that boost when playing at home.
Gordon is the new Benedick Arnold!!!!
Hopefully the Jazz look at the alternatives before automatically signing the
match. If we can get Lance Stephenson or Chandler Parsons for less money we
should go that direction. I think it is a step down from Hayward and some might
even say a step up. The Gilchrist sign and trade might be an option as well. I
will say this. Hayward will seem like he is having a better year for Charlotte
just like Big Al did last year. The numbers were pretty much the same as when
he played for the Jazz but he made the All NBA 3rd team because he plays in the
east and that is the only reason. Big Al is what he is and so is Hayward. He
is not what Charlotte thinks he is.
I guess it is the Miller's money and get to spent it however they want.
Gordon should feel very fortunate to have that sort of support from the Jazz.
Hopefully he is worth it if the Jazz match the offer.
The Jazz need to go get Lance Stephenson and pay him 12 mil a year. He has more
potential than Gordon does and hes cheaper. The Jazz are not going to be able
to lure a big name here like Lebron or Carmelo, they have to take chances and
Stephenson could become a big star in the NBA. I think the Jazz could provide a
great stable environment for him as well. Maybe sign Gordon and use him as trade
bait and try to land some pieces and get something for him.
Congrats Hayward for doing what everyone of us wish we could! Second, this one
is on the Jazz - as Hayward asked for $13M last fall and the Jazz held at $12M.
Now the Jazz are paying $15.75M per year. And by the way - the contract is a
mid tier value range which is exactly what Hayward is. Finally, all
of this salary stuff is relative to the revenue it produces. The owners
aren't financially illiterate - they understand ROI. And the CBA assures
that the athletes get their share. Supply and demand.
@ ObjectifieldSorry to disappoint - look historically not from you
wishful thinking heart. This is strictly a money managed team. They got Snyder
on the cheep plain and simple (but with a good story as you retold nicely)and as
usual they will trade away their great draft picks once they develop in a year
or two when they and their agents determine that they are worth more than the
Jazz are never willing to pay. The only cash players ever kept were Malone and
Stockton. The reasoning behind that was simple, both coaches Frank and Jerry saw
there value and sold LHM on them in the long run and it worked. Now, new
management (Mom and Son)run the team completely different. Don't set
yourself up to be disappointed yet again by the Jazz Management and a team that
can't deliver. Our new GM is visibly week, unengaged in the community and
likely waiting until his exile in Utah ends so that he can go to a market that
is easier to sell to potential players and coaches.
Let him go, the only thing the Jazz would really lose is passing and the 2 point
guard system on track should do that as good or better. Hayword's shooting
and rebounding are average at best and defense a little better than average.
They really need reliable outside shooting, and Gordo is not the answer.
Not worth the money. Do you really reward average play with a max contract? He
stats are below average 41% from the field 30% (One of the worst in the league)
from three point range. I watched many games and it was not because of the
pressure on him. He missed wide open shots. He turned the ball over
frequently. Jazz will be a better team without him and a bloated contract. Let
Jordan deal with the mess. This is more like an Ostertag mistake. Really he
will make more that anyone on the Championship NBA team. I would take any of
the 5 starters on San Antonio rather than him. Arrrrrrgh!
Its so easy to say let Hayward go, or do a sign and trade to get something in
return then use that money for better players for less money. So easy to type
that..First--We're not getting Lebron or any tier 1 free agent.
Second--Guys like Pau Gasol, Luol Deng, Kyle Lowry, etc. are not interested in
the Jazz (even if they overpay) because they are not contenders. Guys like
Parsons, Bledsoe or Monroe are just like Hayward and their teams will match
almost any offer. Here are some guys that already agreed to terms, so tell me
which of these guys you would like to pay instead of Hayward..Channing Frye $32MJosh McRoberts $23MJodie Meeks $20MCJ
Miles $18MSpencer Hawes $23M
@ Mkithpen:You couldn't be more wrong about Jazz management and
the team. Some people apparently just have a propensity for pessimism. I spent a lot of time researching all the coaching candidates the Jazz had a
realistic chance of getting. When it became clear to me that Quin Snyder was the
best overall and with the greatest potential, I made a comment on this board a
week before it was announced that he was the one who should and probably would
be signed. I'm very excited they made such a wise decision. In
just a few more months, you'll have a better understanding as to why.
Snyder knows what he's doing and how to bring out the best in individuals.
Multiple players on teams where he's been an assistant have verified that.
I'm now more excited about this coming season... much more than last
season.Add tot that that most NBA publications gave the Jazz an A
grade for how they did in the draft, getting 2 high quality and high potential
players that undoubtedly will make the team better. This next season
will be the best and most exciting in years.
DN Subscriber says: “But, seriously, paying a person $65 million for 4
years to run around a gym and throw a ball through a hoop? . . Our priorities
are out of wack. Badly.”Oh, please stop with the
hand-wringing. In big-time entertainment (movies, sports, music) you can't
quantify what an appropriate salary is based on the intrinsic value of what a
profession contributes to society. Perhaps you've heard of capitalism? This
newfangled system where supply and demand determine price, and, subsequently,
salaries?If an the Jazz earned $131 mil in revenue last year and the
franchise is worth an estimated $525 mil, why shouldn't the players get at
least half? Are you suggesting the owners should bank it? How is that
contributing to society? The players are the ones doing the bulk of the work to
bring that money in.It's not like if the players don't get
it, school teachers, cancer researchers and social workers would. What criteria
should NBA salaries be based on in your re-prioritized world?
OK, Dennis Lindsey it's time for you to get to work. It's actually
unbelievable a team would offer Hayward a Max deal though. So are the Jazz gonna
match and overpay Hayward, or just let another asset get away and get nothing in
return? How come the Jazz haven't even bothered to talk to Chandler Parsons
or Luol Deng yet? Well, I think a savvy GM would have a plan B in place.
It's really time to get Parsons in here now and show the Rockets hand since
they have that Max offer to Bosh. Give him an offer he can't refuse
(~13Mil/year). I'd actually rather have him and Jazz could get him a little
cheaper. Or do the Jazz have tunnel vision and they were really intent on
matching any offer, or not matching a Max, or their Plan B was really to take on
Salary dumps like last year. If they don't even bother to talk to Parsons I
will have major question marks about DL. They quibbled over 1mil/year last year?
Who didn't see that one coming. Another example of the do nothing Jazz. No
name coach and relatively obscure players on the new rooster. We continue headed
down a road of planned destruction. I only attended one game last year and
watched two away games on TV. This year I plan on using my time more wisely,
like watching the snow melt. Guess I will go back to supporting either the
Lakers or the Clippers. At the very least their ownership is entertaining even
when the product on the floor is suspect. Jazz ownership is sadly very
predictable, trade, waste, downgrade and retreat. Can't be too many more
years until the team is sold and moved to a larger market where the owners care
about the product being produced and the image that creates for the community.
To say we have an NBA franchise no longer has meaning in Utah. Thanks LHM it was
a nice run.
"Name one player in the entire NBA that the Jazz have a realistic chance at
getting at a better price who is better."That's the $63
million dollar question.
@ Brave Sir Robin:Knowing the Jazz said they will match any offer,
several teams have been reluctant to even try for Hayward. Once they make that
offer, their money is tied up until the Jazz decide if they will indeed actually
match it or not. In the meantime, other possible acquisitions they were
interested in will be signing with other teams.If Charlotte is
making an offer beyond what they feel Hayward is actually worth, it's still
possible the Jazz could decline to match the offer and the joke would be on
Charlotte... stuck with a player they felt all along wasn't worth the money
they offered. That would be a stupid and possibly huge mistake for any team to
make just to try to stick it to another team. It would be very risky for
Charlotte to do such a thing. As such, I think Lindsey was smart to
cause other teams to give pause to making a huge offer to a player they probably
weren't going to get anyway. They would rather be putting their attention
and limited resources toward a more likely prospect and not waste valuable free
It used to be, and still should be, that to be a max-paid player, a player had
to be a consistent All-Star. And not just a flash-in-the-pan one-time All-Star
like Kerilinko was. A consistent All-Star that shows himself worthy of that
distinction year after year. Once they've proven that, then consider a
max-contract.It's silly to pay that level of money for just a
player's potential. Hayward has been playing for 4 years and never been
that close to even being a reserve All-Star, let alone an actual All-Star. Smart
management pays for actual production, not for the possible potential of. And so
far, Hayward's production hasn't warranted this kind of reward. Plain
and simple. Numbers don't lie.It's always possible Hayward
could turn over a new leaf and become significantly more than he has shown so
far. And to his defense, he's always played under mediocre NBA coaching.
This new coach just might do it. But that's an expensive risk that Jazz
management is about to take by rolling the dice.
Jazz have to let him go! The future is Rodney Hood, he will be better than
Gordan, yes we may have to wait a couple years but guess what we are not going
anywhere for a couple years any ways.
I think the Jazz will, (1) use the 3 days, after Gordon signs with Charlotte, to
try to find one or two good players who they can use the salary on that they
will need to spend & if they find what they need, they will not match; (2)
try to do a sign and trade with Charlotte; (3) or both or the above; (4) match
the offer, in that order. That is all they can do. I don't know what would
be best, but they will do what they feel is best for the franchise. Good luck.
Yes, it's over-paying, but the Jazz are WAY under the cap, and need to work
to make league minimum (which this does) - this deal does NOT leave the
Jazz' hands tied down the road the way some are thinking because of how
much the cap will go up and because guys like Burke and Exum are not free agents
until much later. Re-signing Hayward is the right move - there is no guarantee
you'll get Parsons or anyone else with all the big money teams that will
lose out on LeBron and Carmelo that will overpay for the next guys in line and
be more desirable destinations.
Matching tells me that the Jazz have no idea what to do with their present
situation. Instead of making some real moves to improve the team they throw
money at an under-performing guy so they can hit the payroll minimum, or is it a
case of doing Gordon a favor? I'm sure Lindsay is a nice guy, but a shrewd
general manager is a must for small market teams. Tragic!
Say it is not so. Will the Jazz match his offer, I think they will. Is Hayward
wroth the money, not at this time, however like others have stated he will not
be the main person bring up the ball. I hope he concentrates on his shooting
and being a non-vocal leader on the court. Jazz have drafted good players, I
just hope it will take them to playoff conference finals and beyond. I guess
will have to sit back and enjoy the ride.
The cost of the entire max deal for Hayward is estimated at $63 million.
Reports are that Hayward wanted $13 million / year for 4 years last Fall for an
extension. The Jazz were only willing to pay $12 million / year for 4 years.
So while the Jazz were unwilling to pay $52 million last Fall, why would they be
willing to pay him $11 million more than Hayward requested last Fall, and $15
million more than they were willing to pay last Fall? Sounds like a really bad
business decision that would significantly over pay Hayward. They should let
Let the greedy wanna be great athlete leave. Sign Chandler Parsons who is 3
times better than Hayward. No loyalty in sports anymore, just greed. What a
Why did Dennis Lindsey say publicly that the Jazz would match any team's
offer? He just showed his hand to every player at the table. All that does is
invite everyone to artificially inflate the player's cost. It
wouldn't surprise me if Charlotte had no real interest in Hayward. But
good move on their part - they just hamstrung the Jazz for the foreseeable
future.Jazz fans need to insist that Dennis Lindsey be shown the
door. The way to do this is with your wallets - let Jazz management know they
won't be getting your money, viewership, or support until Lindsey is gone.
I guess the Jazz have to pony up with some big money. Charlotte hasn't got
much for a sign and trade. Hayward best work very hard and for the naysayers he
is much better then AK-47 and the cap level is much higher now.
Bad omen.What is Michael Jordans history in terms of judging talent?
Horrid. He would not know a good player if it drove over him. He has a
history of overpaying for underachieving talent.So, what does that
say that he is willing to pay Hayward so much?Worse yet, what does
it say that the Jazz are likely willing to match?The worse thing any
franchise could do was follow Jordans lead on anything in terms of player
evaluation and team decision making.My guess is the Jazz are just
looking at it from the perspective that is is only a few million more than they
were already willing to pay anyways and they have to spend to get to the league
minimum salary cap requirement.If they think they overpaid they may
trade him within a year or two and get something instead of absolutely
nothing.It is only a 4 year deal instead of a 5 year if they had
negotiated their own contract with him. Less in terms of long term cap
Wesley Mathews was a better defender and more consistant and the Jazz
organization let him go to Portland. There is plenty of potential and I see
Hayward excelling in Quin Snyders sysrtem. Ultimately it is the Jazz's
business decision. Remember the Millers are not hurting, they have movie plexes,
a multitude of fannz stores, Prostops, Saxton Horn, KJAZZ 14, a multitude of car
dealerships, finance companies, Miller sports park, the Salt Lake Bee's,
etc. they may have other assets as well.......My concern is from
USA today stating that Hayward stated he does not want to stay in Utah.
Like I've said numerous times, there is always one idiotic franchise
willing to overpay. That said the Jazz are really only paying him about 4
million more/year than they were easily willing to offer him anyways and they
have the money to do it. Would you rather they pay him or some throw away cap
player like Biedrins?The reality is Hayward should get better now we
have Exum and Burkes to handle the ball. He should be able to concentrate on
shooting instead of handling and setting up the play 60% of the time under
Corbin.Although he did not play like it last season this is not a
contact situation equivalent to AK's. Charlotte is clearly willing to pay
the money when Haywards shooting declined. If he even marginally improved or
stayed flat then you could probably trade him if he ends up not working out
anyways.The Jazz are still going to have to spend to get to the
minimum anyways so may as well pay a player who will play vs a bench-warmer type
like Biedrins. Excited to see Exum play in Vegas. Hopefully good
stuff to come.
Jordan is insane. To offer that kind of cash to a player who was/is the 3rd best
on a borderline playoff team (millsap, jefferson) is crazy. Jazz cannot match
it, there are better options.
I've said repeatedly that I don't think Hayward is a max player and
hope the Jazz don't match. That said, I know the Jazz brass are a lot more
knowledgeable than I am and I love the Jazz and will always support them, but
still don't like this deal.
What has occurred here would be a nice business exercise for those of you
interested in going into business.....Last fall, the Jazz offered this kid $48K
for 4 years. They knew then that this was not going to be enough, and the
kid's agent wouldn't accept it; but they didn't want to pay the
max unless they were forced to pay it.....What followed was the normal course of
events..season ended..July 1st came around..The kid's agent shopped him
around....The agent found a team willing to give the kid a max
contract......Now, the Jazz know that to keep the kid they have to come up with
max money. The kid will sign with Charlotte on the 10th or 11th, and I believe
the Jazz will match the offer on the 13th or 14th......Lindsey has been building
this team around Hayward. I doubt he'll let the kid get away.
Why would I not be surprised if the Jazz match the offer? After all, we're
talking about the organization that was deceived by a couple good games and
subsequently buried themselves with the Ostertag deal and has never been able to
get a good big man.This is yet another great example of what is
wrong with the NBA and pro sports in general. No athlete is worth $63 million.
For throwing a ball into a hoop....are you kidding me? The whole thing is
beyond madness. It is insanity.
Re people who think Jazz should let Gordon walk for nothing: Name one player in
the entire NBA that the Jazz have a realistic chance at getting at a better
price who is better.Face it, right now there are only 2 ways for the
Jazz to get better, they can overpay the players they drafted and developed or
they can overpay in free agency like Charlotte just did.I just hope
Lindsey learns from this and doesn't make the same mistake with Kanter and
Alec. Not signing Hayward in October at $13 million a year was a huge blunder
and not signing him now would be any worse.
I've been booing Hayward since he was drafted, along with much of Jazz
Nation. I guess management sees something in him that the rest of us don't.
He's a fine role player, a third or fourth option, but not elite enough to
deserve max money. Let the Hornets overpay him. We drafted Rodney Hood, whose
ceiling is just as high, if not higher.
If we do not learn from history, then we are doomed to repeat it...I.e. AK 47.
I could see him as a great player if he was not the only play-maker on the team
like last year on the Jazz. He could not handle the pressure. But if the team
has other players that can relieve that stress for next year then I could see
him being worth that kinda of money. But I also worry he could be like AK-47 and
be a money pit.
Let him walk. He's not a max player so let him cripple Charlotte's
future instead of the Jazz's.
Do not let the door hit you on the way out.
Jordan sticking it to the Jazz one more time! Gotta luv it!
Good work if you can get it. The NBA is a group of private business people and
can pay whatever they want, and that is a good thing.But, seriously,
paying a person $65 million for 4 years to run around a gym and throw a ball
through a hoop? What will be the combined salary of the entire
staff of the life-saving Huntsman Cancer Institute over the next four years?
How about the combined salary of the Utah National Guard, or an active duty
aircraft carrier and its escort ships' crews as they defend our freedom?
What about the combined salaries of all of Utah's school teachers for the
next four years? Heck, what does it cost to pay 535 Senators and
Congressmen for four years- but that may not be as good an expenditure as for a
single ball thrower.Our priorities are out of wack. Badly.
The Jazz ought to let him go. IF he wants that type of money, then he needs to
become a money player. These big contracts are ridiculous for someone that has
average stats. If he'd average 30 points a game and plays like Jerry West,
then he might be worth it.
As much as I hate it I think the Jazz match this contract. I have felt Hayward
does not want to be in Utah for some time. I would not be suprised if he played
down slightly last year and becomes an all star once he leaves, not because of
coaching but because he is out of Utah and getting the max, his primary goals.
Signing Hayward to a max deal though hinders Utah's future flexability and
chances of landing other free agents. I'd rather go out and sign a couple
$10M guys than this offer. Even go get a guy for $12-$14M. they are out there
and available.Burks has shown more improvement year over year and
Jazz should lock him up for the long term this summer. Kanter is still a
mystery and I would wait another year to extend him.The one good
thing about matching is in 2 yrs the salaray cap will go up with the new TV
deal. At that time a $16M max today would likely be equivaqlent of a $12-$13m
offer which is about right for Hayward.
Lets not be encumbered by another Kirlinko sized contract for a good but not
great player. Let him go. We can find better values out there.
Another example of one who has done so little for so much.
He put Butler on the map, and now he can choose where on the map he wants to
live. Great kid, great athlete. One that is good for kids.
Match the deal and let Hayward play a year under Snyder. If he is still shooting
a low percentage or doesn't drastically improve in other areas, then trade
Impressive offer and we should certainly be happy for him. However, I do feel
Jazz should not match it. His positives are good player, good attitude and
all-star level skill and talent. But in the 4 yrs with Jazz, he has not shown
that extra bit which is required to be the undisputed leader of a team. He
reminds me of Keith Van Horn, who I liked very much. Gordon may achieve a little
more or less than him in his NBA career but my prediction is it will be similar.
Worth the max even then? Lets see what Jazz Mgmt decide.
This is plainly not good news. He is not worth that kind of money. His value
has peaked. If it is still possible, the Jazz should work out a "sign and
USA Today is reporting that Hayward says he doesn't want to play for the
Jazz. It would be interesting to hear what others have to say about that.
now that Hayward has officially signed an offer...which is very overpaid...i
hope the Jazz begins talks for a sign and trade deal...involving Cody Zeller
and/or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist....and a 1st round draft pick...as good as Hayward
is...its just too much...they are paying for potential...and what could be
production from him...not because of what he has accomplished during the past 3
years...Now...the Jazz have three days to match...and i hope a sign and trade
deal would work out....i think he will be effective there...since he won't
be the main guy...and i think he'll complement Kemba and Big Al well...and
would add some honest D...a definite upgrade from Gerald Henderson...the hornets
are now scary....with Big AL Vonleh Hayward Kemba MKG and Hairston
Michael Jordan was an amazing player, but as an owner, ahem, not so much. I
really don't think the Jazz should give Gordon a max deal, especially with
his shooting percentages last yr.
If the Jazz match this offer they are insane..
I will try to be reasonable. Two separate thoughts. I think the Jazz match the
offer sheet if they feel the rebuilding period to get back to the playoffs is 4
years and they don't really want to pursue a high profile player during
that period and continue to play the youngsters. This helps keep them at the
NBA minimum player salary and it doesn't hold them hostage for more than 4
years. On the other hand, I don't think Hayward proved last year that he
is a leader or a consistent player for 48 minutes. His shot is very suspect and
his defense is horrible. But he does help the team more than hurt it. So if
the Jazz need to waste money for the next 4 years, re-sign him. If not, I would
use the money to get two above average vets to come in and try and try and reach
the playoffs now. Chandler Parsons is an option for less money. I am sure
there are others too. Deng in Chicago is worth the money over Hayward.
Let me know when he is moving and I will help him pack.
I think they're hoping for a sign and trade. They really don't have
much cap space while the Jazz do.