Don't let the door hit you on the hindparts on the way out...
Gordon,Thanks for 2 great years.
I do not think he is worth a max deal since last year he was to inconsistent.
But he could be a really good player over time. But maybe the Jazz want to sign
him since they can see that future potential or they know that other teams may
be willing to trade for someone the Jazz may want more.
Sounds like the Hayward saga will be over soon. Jazz should have extended him
when they had the chance. Question is, "Where does Hayward want to
play"? If he wants to stay in Utah, he will take Cleveland's offer. If
he wants to go to Phoenix or Boston then he signs the qualifying offer which
will force the Jazz to trade him.Sounds to me like he might want to
stay in Utah. If Rockets do manage to get Carmelo or James then Parsons is
Please don't match this offer. No way Hayward is a max deal player.
He's a good player but doesn't have the skills to be the go to guy in
the clutch. Nice 2nd or 3rd option but not the key to the Jazz' future.
Good luck in Cleveland.
As soon as this deal is signed, he will be nothing other than a toxic,
untradable contract. I really hope Lindsey steps up to the plate here by NOT
matching this offer. This is ridiculous. If you're not good enough to get
your team more than 25 wins, why are you worth all that money?
LET HIM GO!!!! You cannot pay this guy 16 million dollars per year. No way is
he worth that. If Jazz match this offer it would be a HUGE mistake. Worse than
the Kirilenko contract. Rumors in Cleveland is they want to sign and trade and
send us Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters. Much better deal than signing
Hayward to 4 year 63 million dollar deal. I like the guy, but sheesh.
Hayward is a worker bee - nothing more. Giving a worker bee a max deal is silly.
Max deals are for Stockton and Malone type players but go for it Cleveland and
The negative comments about Hayward are incredibly short-sighted. The fact is
that he is the best player on the team, with amazing potential for growth at 24
years old. Yes, he buckled a little under the pressure of being the go-to
scorer last season, but he's only experienced one season in that role, and
new additions will eventually alleviate that pressure. Remember that Malone and
Stockton took years to develop. We Jazz fans are dreaming if we think
management can bring in another player at Hayward's caliber through free
agency. Where will he come from? Another salary dump? Lindsay's
rebuilding plan is solid. The Jazz would be crazy not to match any offer to
I like Hayward, but $63 million would be a big mistake. I remember
in the AK-47 years how we wished we hadn't given him a max contract b/c we
simply couldn't sign anyone. He wasn't good enough to win on his own
and kept us from getting the last piece next to Boozer/Williams to be a legit
contender. A max contract limits the organization from making other
signings. That's ok if you are signing a guy who will put you on his back
and flat-out win, but Hayward shot 40 from the floor and 30 from three last
year. That is just not good enough for max money (no offence to Hayward).Love the guy, but it would be a HUGE mistake to tie down the
organization with this type of a contract on a player who can't carry the
team. A max money deal needs to guy to a guy who can carry the team - period.We can get Chandler Parsons or Luol Deng for less and WIN the SAME
number of games we'll win with Hayward - that's all you need to know.
I think the Jazz should get Chandler Parsons in town ASAP and give him an offer
he can't refuse. They are basically the same type player with Parsons being
a much better shooter and Hayward a slight better playmaker. Parsons could even
fit in better with Jazz with his great shooting. I would say frontload the
contract and have it average out to $12-13Million. Houston is not in a position
to match now since it would tie up their 'Melo money. Then see if any teams
would have interest in sign and trade with Hayward. If so, match the offer and
you potentially pry away Parsons + get return for Hayward. I think $15+ million
for Hayward is WAY TOO MUCH for him. He is way too inconsistent to get that much
The Jazz need to go get Lance Stephenson! Give him a max deal or close to it.
I dont care if he's had problems the Jazz need this guy!
All of us experts should stand back and let Dennis Lindsey do his job and I hope
that is to bring out the checkbook and give Hayward a max money contract. Then
maybe bring back Williams and take care of Kanter and Burks. Oh, don't
forget the rookies.
wow...i never thought Jazz fans would jump to conclusions quickly...i mean come
on...all of this is speculation...it mentions he could get 4 years 60M...it
doesnt say...he will get it...all of these right now are just speculation and
people are jumping on it like the contract is already there to be signed...relax
people...i mean really...i understand that he isnt a max contract guy...do you
think Jazz brass would offer such an amount? all of these are just
speculation...and i am sure...Dennis Lindsey would do the right thing...if the
Cavs offered a max contract of 60 for 4 years to Hayward...them im sure Lindsey
would call and ask for a sign and trade...we get dion waiters and Matthew
Delledova and probably a first or second round pick...but to be
honest...i'll just wait and see...as long as there isnt a contract
everything is just speculation at this point...
Re Terry HaimesI don't understand why Hayward singing the Jazz
qualifying offer would force the Jazz to trade him. Someone please explain.
Later Hayward. We were burned by Andrei Kirilenko and I don't think the
Millers will go down that road again.
@Thunder MayfThe jazz weren't burned by kirilenko they burned
themselves.all AK did was sign a contract they offered.And then the coach wouldn't play him. What was AK to do?Gordon is not max player putting up max numbers.Maybe other teams
are banking on the future.The jazz are building, banking now is not
worth it. Gordon is not a great shooter and will never be a great shooter. I
am pretty sure his numbers will not get much better. There are other
young players you can get.
One of the best facilitating, dribbling and passing 6'8" NBA players in
the past 20 years. And he plays defense and he can go to the rim, sometimes full
court. You guys don't love him because he's had his shooting woes. If
the Jazz don't sign him, they will miss him. Big time. This is a tough
situation for the Jazz, and some team is liable to pull a Wesley Matthews and
give Gordon too much. Life in the NBA 2014 with so many mega bucks owners who
don't mind throwing it around. I wish Alec Burks was 6'8" but he
isn't. He's a shooting guard who can play point. Gordon is a shooting
guard who can play point, small forward and played defensively against power
forwards some in college when necessary to shut someone down. See, you're
going to miss him, people. Quin, get in his ear. Utah winning a
championship...come on, how awesome would that be. Gordon, you're a core
guy, be that guy in Utah. You and Derrick and Alec and Dante and Trey.
The Cavs just gave Kyrie Irving a max contract ( 5 yrs/95 mil). And now
they're ready to offer a max to Hayward (4 yrs/60 mil)?? How can they
spend at this level?? What will be their financial situation in three
years??By the way, C. J. Miles is now a Pacer (4 yrs/18 mil). Watch
C. J. in the playoffs next spring.
The problem is: it's Utah. It's tough to get top free agents to Salt
Lake. Period. You pretty much have to keep the talent you draft or you'll
be left rebuilding year after year after year. Ask the Kings.That is
why, although Hayward may not be a MAX money player for MOST teams, I think may
be for the Jazz. The only way they can see him let go is if they can assure
themselves of signing someone at least as good, such as Chandler Parsons or
Trevor Ariza, but neither of them are likely to leave Houston and Washington to
come to Utah.My guess is that Cleveland won't in fact give him
the MAX (remember these are rumors), but will still offer a good contract, in
which case the Jazz should match. If they do offer max, then it would be a tough
The Jazz have a plan. Step 1-Sign Hayward!If it takes 75 mil over 5
yrs.,Frontload contract:23 mil-1st yr, 13 per for the remaining 4 yrs. I would
rather they do that, instead of picking up expiring contracts.Then next year
they have 10 mil per yr. extra to re-sign Burks and Kanter. they have spend the
money any way, why not on their future?
I can't think of another NBA player who is his size, weight and build who
was ever a franchise player?Skin and BonesLow muscle massToo big and slow for a 2To small and weak for a 3Can't
build around him, in my opinion
I like Hayward and maybe on potential he can be a max player but I do not see
how the Jazz can do that right now. With drafting Exum we are now deep at guard
and Hayward has been playing the 3. Over the last 2 years it has been Burks who
has continued to improve Hayward who has stagnated a bit. Burks may be the max
money player we need next year if he improves as he did last year. If we tied
up max money in Hayward now we likely lose Burks in the future. Let
Hayward go or sign and trade for assets. Start Burks and let Exum back up Burke
and Burks so you know if he is a PG or SG next year and what he brings. Resign
Marvin to play both the 3 and stretch 4 backed up by Hood. He provides a veteran
presence. Might go get Parsons as well. Extend Favors and Burks for the this
summer. Depth chart ofBurke/ExumBurks/ExumParsons/HoodKanter/WilliamsFavors/Kanter
Kyle Lowry scored 18 per/gm, 7 asst, and 5 reb with afg% of 48% 3pt of 40 %. He
just signed for 4 yrs $48M.Hayward scored 16 per/gm, 5 asst, 5 reb,
with afg% of 45% and 3 pt of 30%. Looks like Hayward is worth about 4 yrs
$46M.Let Clevland choke on a max contract. They are the one
franchise that will screw everything up. Why should the Jazz follow suite. Are
we building in Cleveland's image or San Antonio and Indiana's image.
Small markets cannot over pay for mediocre talent. Parsons looks like a much
better option right now. He can shoot and does everything except assists a bit
better. He is certainly more efficient.
I kinda think the Jazz will keep him. They have the upper hand if that is what
they want to do. If Lindsay wants him he will keep him.
CJ shoots the ball better than Hayward and you ran him out of town. The Pacers
know what they are doing in signing him to a long term contract. The Jazz
always let cheap players get away so they can pay huge dollars to guys like
Hayward and AK who don't deserve it. And stop making excuses for Hayward.
He has proven he is not a go-to guy in the 4th quarter. And no, Hayward does
not play defense. He gets beat often off the dribble and he rotates way too
slow on the three point shooters.
there still no contract in the table...and in my opinion...i dont
think...Lindsey would bite on the max contract...if Cleveland offered max
money...im pretty sure a sign and trade will follow suit...there are some pieces
in cleveland that they would want to let go...like Waiters...that could help
us...i dont think Lindsey will fall from other team's bluff...so
everyone...chillax until the contract is there
I believe the Jazz should look at Lowry's contract and duplicate it for
Gordon, expect instead of four years make it a five year contract. Lowry's
contract (with the Raptors) is 4 years 48 million. So come on Jazz management,
offer Gordon 5 years 60 million. If Gordon says no, then set your sites on
Chandler Parson's before someone else does.
@AFCougThe Kyle Lowery signing was huge! I agree, I think that may have
set the bar for the Jazz to resign him at $11 or $12 Mil/yr, as what they
offered last year. This may have been Hayward's agent's doing in an
attempt to boost his stock. The fear that the Jazz matching any offer may
completely dissuade any team making him an offer since it will remove that cap
space money from signing other free agents until July 13 (the day players can
officially sign on July 10 and Jazz would have 3 days to match). So I think
it's looking good that Hayward will be in a Jazz uniform. I hope we can see
some Parson's contract numbers with Houston soon and that will really
finalize Hayward's salary bar. I would prefer Parsons over Hayward but I
think he is not leaving Houston
Good player, but not a great player. Worth good money, but not max money. Do
not let the "supposed" market dictate overpaying a role player. Which
is exactly what Hayward is. A really good role player. Seriously, look at the
skill set. A good player is all he will ever be. Not a super star. Please
don't tie up max money on this guy.
Nevada Ute says: "The negative comments about Hayward are incredibly
short-sighted. The fact is that he is the best player on the team, with amazing
potential for growth at 24 years old."I think everyone
acknowledges he is a valuable player, which is why several teams have expressed
interest. But when you start talking about max contracts, you HAVE to be
nit-picky and look at the downside. It's not like every team has to have a
couple of "max" guys to compete. Those deals should only go to proven
elite players. Gordon, while young, doesn't seem to be made of
"elite" stuff. He's potentially a second or third banana on
contending teams. Let's not act like that's a huge insult . . being
"merely" a very good NBA player still makes you rich and famous.Could he become elite? I guess it's still possible, but he just
doesn't seem to have that alpha-dog attitude. And that's fine; not
many guys with the skill to back it up do. But if you give a guy like him the
max, you're putting a ceiling on the team's success for years.
IMHO Jeff Hornacek will convince his good friend to head to Phoenix and Gordon
Hayward will be plaguing the Jazz from there for the rest of his career.
I believe that Hayward has reached his maximum potential. It is time for
"sign and trade" which would leave openings in the spending cap. He
wants to go to the Celtics. That is why he didn't sign. His former coach
is Brad Stevens who is now with Ainge, from Utah, and the Celtics.
If you are reading this article and still believe THE HYPE that Cleveland is
giving GH a max deal, stop! Already been refuted! They sat down to talk in a
preliminary get-to-know-you. the whole max deal was probably an agent ploy.I like Gordon. Yet, I agree he's not a max deal right now.
It's been talked about how he was shooting different last year. He may have
some injury. Of course he didn't get the shots he got when others created
for him in past seasons either. My point is that his shooting percentages will
most likely go up with improving players around him and as he adapts. Either way, the market will probably put him at a level the Jazz will pay. No,
he will not be AK2.0.
I have to shake my head when people say that Hayward has reached his ceiling.
He's 24 years old! John Stockton was 25 before he started reaching double
assists and points per game. Malone was 24, BUT his numbers got better over the
next few years and didn't drop (Malone was special though.) For all the
25-and-done talk, many players improve (Stockton peaked around 27. Malone 26.)
Of course that's based on statistics alone. As these players mature, they
help their team win in veteran ways. If you don't believe me, look at San
Antonio this past season.
See ya.It's been real.
Haywards numbers are inflated due to playing on a really bad team last year. If
he were playing with Dwill and Boozer, his numbers would be down. He is not a
Max contract player. AK was better than him in his prime. AK could play
defense and still have a good stat line in four catagories.
bretticus, I don't believe he's reached his ceiling; I'm just not
convinced his ceiling is "perennial all-star," which is what a true
franchise guy needs to be if you have any hope of contending. I would love to be
proven wrong. If he blows up for a season of 22/6/6 with solid shooting splits
next year, I'll gleefully reconsider.The Stock comparison
doesn't fly because Stock didn't start playing starter's minutes
until he turned 25. Overpaying Gordon and crossing their fingers he becomes a
beast is a huge gamble. Hey, I like the guy, I just don't like the idea of
throwing huge contracts at guys based on what you hope they will become.
However, it may be necessary to keep guys in Utah, and I admittedly don't
have a better answer. One thing's for sure . . the Jazz need a
huge helping of good luck to become a contender again. Will a core of Burke,
Burkes, Kanter, Favors, Hayward, Exum and Hood (or whomever any of the above are
traded for) be good enough with a couple more years of experience? I have no
I think the Jazz should offer Hayward a 5-year, $57 million front-loaded deal
($15.5M the 1st year, $10.375M for each of the other 4 years). That averages
out to $11.4M/year, which I think is reasonable for a player of Hayward's
caliber, gives him a nice payoff up front, and doesn't saddle the Jazz with
a horrible contract.
There is no question Hayward is a good player. Very few people are disputing
that. The Jazz did a good job drafting him. But common sense reality
says that only consistent All-Star players who carry franchises should merit
max-contracts... which truly are a lot of money to tie up on one player. They
shouldn't be handed out willy-nilly to every good player who contributes
and may or may not have additional potential. Unless the market is
getting way out of kilter this year, a player like Hayward should be worth about
6 to 8 million per year... which is nothing to sneeze at. That's well above
the NBA average.I do hope Jazz management tempers their desire to
improve with common sense. Otherwise, when the dust clears, they will end up
with some regrets... as will Cleveland if they sign Hayward to a max.@ Jazzsmack:No one said AK47 burned the Jazz. They said his
contract burned them. They offered it and it ended up burning them. No one is
blaming AK for signing it. I certainly would've. Hopefully, the Jazz
organization learned from that episode in their history.
Hood will be better than Hayward by age 24. Hayward has reached his ceiling for
scoring. He does not have a natural jumper. If Hayward (big if) would learn to
play defense with some heart, then I might have a change of heart. But Hayward
had no heart in 2013-14 season.
@CJ Mileslet's be honest here...Gordon Hayward played a role
last season that didnt play to his strengths...but...it should have been an
opportunity for him to rise up to the challenge but didnt...but saying that
Gordon Hayward can't play D...is a bit of a stretch...he does play
D...though its not elite level D...he plays average solid D one on one...and is
a good help/team defender...chase down blocks? anyone?...now as for shooting
%...last year...defense were focused on him...and his shot form was off compared
to his first few seasons...like i said...different role...you get different
looks...you have mentioned that Utah should have kept CJ rather than Hayward and
is much a better shooter well....on average compared to CJ Miles career 35% 3PT%
Hayward...is at 36%...best year for CJ...last year at .393 Hayward best year
.473 rookie year...overall FG% career for CJ .420 Hayward .436...i dunno
man...stats dont lie i guess
@ObjectifiedRead the comment of whom I was replying too.It was Sloan that run AK out of town. AK didn't fit his system.Sloan also ran Matthews, CJMiles, Maurice Williams, and every big man they
ever drafted. He didn't play them didn't develop them or didn't
want to develop them and play them. But mostly they didn't fit his horrible
system Or he didn't really want young players. He was intent on
playing veterans even though it was getting the jazz nowhere.Utah
Jazz is a victim of Sloan's system and compounded by bad contracts.I hope things for the Jazz are changing for the better. But a max
contract for a fourth option is not smart.Chandler parsons may be
okay even though he is more of a stretch four but jazz really need a center.I'm not worried about jazz defense right now. They are young and
building and that will resolve over time. The Tennessee PF
would've been interesting. I think more young players right now is better
than veterans. They need a good draft pick next year more than anything veterans
could give them.
The success of the Jazz in the past has come from sticking with good players and
coaches. Let's stick with Hayward!
The only thing that could make this favorable for the Jazz is do a sign and
trade with Phx...i'd probably trade Hayward and Evans for TJ Warren Miles
Plumlee Archie Goodwin and 2 2nd round Picks....i think TJ Warren could score in
bunches...Plumlee would be a solid starting C...moving Favors to PF...PlumleeFavorsWarrenExumBurkebenchBurksGoodwinHoodKanterGobert
I'm shocked about how negative Jazz "fans" are about Hayward. For
all of the Jazz "fans" who are so eager to get rid of Hayward ask
yourself 1 question. Who are the Jazz going to bring in that is better than
Hayward at a similar price? I would gladly bet my next paycheck that the answer
is nobody.People need to understand that it is the market that
dictates worth, this is the way the world works. The Jazz will match any
contract Hayward gets and they would be crazy not to. Personally I'm happy
for Hayward and I can't wait to see him playing next to Exum this year!