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Guest commentary: Phil Steele again displays Cougars in good light

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  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 8, 2014 6:59 p.m.

    @ Boy of Fall

    BYU has more wins because they play a weaker schedule. It's not hard to figure out.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 8, 2014 11:33 a.m.

    @ TroyTown

    "Exhibit C: In 2008, the Utes once beat four AP Top 25 teams, but never came close to winning a national championship because they carried absolutely no momentum into the season after getting shut out by lowly 10-loss UNLV in 2007."

    You're wrong here. After the UNLV loss, Utah won 8 of the next 9 games to finish out the 2007 season. The reason Utah never got close to the NCG is because the system in place was designed to keep mid-major teams out of it. Utah would not have received the opportunity to play for the title, regardless of what happened in 2007.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    July 7, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red

    It might have slipped your memory, but BYU and Utah are not in the same conference anymore, so unless that changes, it would be impossible for BYU to lose to fellow conference member Utah.

    Lack of consistency on the hill explains why the Utes seldom won conference championship in the WAC/MWC and why they'll struggle even more, if that's possible, in the PAC.

    Exhibit A: In 1994, the Utes beat four AP Top 25 teams, were themselves ranked in the Top 10, yet didn't win the WAC championship because the couldn't beat lowly New Mexico(4-8)

    Exhibit B: In 2013, the Utes beat Top 10 Stanford, but couldn't qualify for a bowl game because they couldn't beat lowly 6-7 Washington St, a team that couldn't beat Colorado St in the New Mexico Bowl, despite having a big lead late in the fourth quarter.

    Exhibit C: In 2008, the Utes once beat four AP Top 25 teams, but never came close to winning a national championship because they carried absolutely no momentum into the season after getting shut out by lowly 10-loss UNLV in 2007.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    July 7, 2014 1:07 p.m.

    TR

    "BYU is ranked higher because BYU plays a dreadful schedule and Utah plays a tough schedule."

    Doesn't that directly contradict what Utah fans have been telling us for years? That the bcs era fixed SOS issues in the rankings and that teams are now ranked based on record versus SOS.

    The distorted spin that Utah fans have to resort to, to help themselves sleep at night, is truly hilarious.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    July 7, 2014 1:01 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red

    BYU's list is comprised almost entirely of national or season long achievements.

    Utah's list is comprised almost entirely of head-to-head achievements versus BYU.

    Talk about little brother syndrome.

    btw, didn't Stanford lose to Utah last year; yet no fan in his right mind would try to argue that Utah was better than Stanford.

    The fact that Utah only has FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history, while BYU had TWICE that many BEFORE Utah cracked the AP Top 25 for the first time, tells you all you need to know about how the programs compare on a national scale.

    We know it hurts your feelings, but Utah was only invited to the PAC to be cannon fodder for the big boys; the Utes were never expected to actually be competitive.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 7, 2014 12:38 p.m.

    Boy of Fall
    Spanish Fork, UT

    thats why byu is always ranked higher than utah.

    ---------

    BYU is ranked higher because BYU plays a dreadful schedule and Utah plays a tough schedule.

    But enjoy that if you want.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 7, 2014 12:15 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs
    West Point , UT

    compared to BYUs 3 point loss because of a late TO in inclement weather on the east coast.

    ---------

    Ha ha ha. I love the excuses.

    "because of a late TO...weather... east coast..."

    blah blah blah blah blah

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 7, 2014 12:08 p.m.

    Uteology

    LOL... That was 2-10 Virigia's ONLY D1 win of the season. It shouldn't be that difficult for a legacy program down south.

    ---------

    Even Ball State thrashed Virginia on their home field, by three TDs.

    Legacy programs don't lose to conference bottom dwellers, or at least that's what phantomblade says.

    Except Virginia, I guess.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 7, 2014 11:59 a.m.

    Phantomblade

    Boy look at all that spin.

    "Bronco never lost to fellow conference bottom dwellers"

    Except Utah, as you people constantly point out.

    "Bronco won two MWC championships.
    Kyle only won one."

    And yet you still couldn't make it to a BCS game.

    Bronco had three 11+ win, Top 15 seasons.
    Kyle only had one.

    Whittingham had the only one that mattered.

    BYU's consistency in seldom losing to bad teams, especially conference bottom dwellers, explains why BYU has won 23 WAC/MWC championships.

    Look, either Utah is a bottom feeder doormat or it isn't. You people can't go saying Utah is one of the worst P5 teams out there and then go brag about how you don't lose to bad teams, when Utah has stomped you for four straight years and 9 of 12.

    So which is it? Is Utah bad or are they a decent program?

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 7, 2014 11:51 a.m.

    phantomblade
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    Bronco is 9-9(50%) versus PAC 12 teams.
    Kyle is 13-21(38%).

    ------------

    The hypocrisy is THICK around here. You talk spin, and then you lay that one out there?

    Comparing the coaches' records against the Pac 12 is not, by a long shot, a fair or even comparison. Utah plays in the Pac 12. BYU doesn't. Utah has played 16 MORE contests against the Pac 12. So don't even try the 'BYU wins more in the Pac 12' schtick. Yeah, well... if you actually played in the Pac 12 you certainly wouldn't.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 7, 2014 11:42 a.m.

    Uteanymous
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    Since BYU and Utah joined a conference that someone besides your great grandfather remembers:

    BYU 29-23-0

    Average Score: BYU 27.6, Utah 23.4

    AP Top 25 Finishes: BYU 17, Utah 5

    11+ Win Seasons: BYU 11, Utah 2

    Conference Championships: BYU 23, Utah 6

    Bowl Games: BYU 32, Utah 16

    National Championships: BYU 1, Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies: BYU 1, Utah 0

    National Individual Awards: BYU 15, Utah 0

    National Hall of Fame Players: BYU 6, Utah 0

    -----------

    And yet...

    Utah P5
    BYU isolated

    Utah 54
    BYU 10

    Utah 4 wins since 2010
    BYU 0 wins since 2010

    Utah 9 wins since 2002
    BYU 3 wins since 2002

    Utah access to playoff
    BYU no access to playoff

    But, by all means... enjoy your comfort stats.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 7, 2014 11:36 a.m.

    "27 point loss to such a weak team is far worse than a 3 point loss to a P5 team with 4 & 5 star athletes."

    No it's not for the reasons already stated and '13 Uva was hardly a team reflective of "4 & 5 star athletes", as if these were what overwhelmingly constituted their active roster last season....U attempt to make them sound like USC or something....Once again, their only other W on the season was at home against a Fcs bottom-feeder....Case closed.

    p.s. byu has 3 Ls all-time against Unlv, all 3 occurring in provo, the two most recent in '02/'04, w/'02 being a 24-3 setback, merely 6 points fewer in the final margin from our L, and in '04 their L came against a Unlv team which finished w/just 2 Ws on the season....Both of their teams finished below .500....Again, both Ls came at home, not on the road, and occurred w/in 5 & 3 years of ours, respectively....Now that's hysterical.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 7, 2014 11:07 a.m.

    "which interestingly AZUTE hasn't argued."

    p.s. It wasn't too long ago when Unlv beat byu 2 times, including in provo....Nw that's humiliating, particularly a L to them at home.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    July 7, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    AZUTE:
    Well you have your opinion and I have mine. We agree to disagree but I think most fans of CFB would look at a 4 TD humiliation at the hands of one the worst teams in MWC history as worse than losing by a FG to a BCS team. Unlv's only other victory that year was against a 1-11 Utah state squad. 27 point loss to such a weak team is far worse than a 3 point loss to a P5 team with 4 & 5 star athletes..."no matter your spin".

  • Boy of Fall Spanish Fork, UT
    July 7, 2014 11:01 a.m.

    its kind of funny how the ute people on here only have one thing to fall back on. yes, the utes have beaten BYU more than the other way around but its only byu and utah that care about that game. its the rest of the season that the nation cares about. thats why byu is always ranked higher than utah. if utah hadnt been beating byu every year then kyle would have been fired a long time ago. thats all the utes care about is beating byu. so as long as thats all they care about, then thats all they'll ever do is beat byu. remember utes, theres an entire season to play. those other games aren't just for you to waste time until you play byu again

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 7, 2014 10:42 a.m.

    "which interestingly AZUTE hasn't argued."

    What's to argue? U stated your opinion after I made my original statement and didn't come even remotely close to refuting it....Unlv all of those many years ago beat multiple Fbs opponents....Uva barely earned their sole Fbs W over byu and was only capable of earning one other W in '13 at home against a Fcs bottom-feeder....I don't care if Unlv's fluke W over us in Las Vegas had been to the tune of 100-0, they still weren't the equal of Uva in lack of accomplishment, no matter your spin....Even less so with '11 Cu.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    July 7, 2014 7:32 a.m.

    Uteology:
    I wasn't blaming the rain for anything, simply pointing out how BYUs loss to Virginia wasn't near as bad as Utah's loss to UNLV. AZUTE made the assertion that BYUs loss to UVA was the "worst in memory"..,I simply pointed out how much worse Utah's thumping at the hands of UNLV was, which interestingly AZUTE hasn't argued.

    I never said BYU would waltz into a P5 conference and be instantly competitive. I was pointing to the fact that they have competed well with Big 12 teams in the past and could certainly continue to do so. I also pointed to the fact that TCU's issues extend beyond the gridiron and aren't just about a stepup in SOS. I believe even their fans would agree with that assessment. You can't judge what BYU would do solely based on what TCU has done.

    "Today, the fact is BYU doesn't have the talent to compete in a P5 league."

    Apparently neither does Utah. 4-5 in 2011 against arguably the weakest PAC in recent history...followed up by 3-6, 2-7. Ute fans should be the last casting stones about what other programs can or can't do.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 6, 2014 7:09 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    While you're still blaming the "rain" for the loss to Virgina, Kyle has made up for it since then finishing 45-6 as a mid-major including rolling over your Quest team in 2008 to thump #6 Bama.

    Today, the fact is BYU doesn't have the talent to compete in a P5 league. Going 2-5 last year vs P5 teams is a great indication of that, not your 5-1 record vs Texas/OU over the last 40 years.

    Cougsndawgs: "Just FYI, since 2003 TCU is 1-3 vs OU & 1-2 vs Texas. Before joining the Big 12 they were 1-3 combined against those schools. Not even close to BYUs success against those programs since 2003."

    How's your record against TCU since 2003?

    Since 2003 TCU was 1-2 vs Texas/OU before joining the Big 12. Both loses were to RANKED teams. Over that period BYU did not play any RANKED Texas/OU team. Today, TCU plays a Big 12 schedule (2-6 last year) while BYU was 2-5 vs P5 teams.

    Good luck against @Texas, Virgina, and @Cal... 1-2?

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 6, 2014 3:24 p.m.

    sammyg--

    "The Utes most often used excuse... we play a 'big boy' schedule, weekly grind."

    Never an excuse, but rather a fact used in response to byu fan's finger-pointing....As a legitimate competitor, I inherently want the toughest possible schedule w/its inherent greatest potential reward....Therefore, I wouldn't trade our tough annual schedule for anything....I absolutely love it, even during our transition.

    byu would be dead-last in The PAC-12....See The U's/TCU's struggles in transitioning, 2 schools byu can never beat.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 6, 2014 2:54 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "byu has never been tested by a big boy schedule, which literally entails a weekly grind. This is always conveniently omitted by tds fans in this discussion."

    The Utes most often used excuse... we play a 'big boy' schedule, weekly grind.
    OR... we have an injured QB.
    OR... we have another injured QB
    OR... we don't have a reserve QB
    OR... we have a new OC

    Uteology

    "
    I can't speak for AZUTE but I never said Utah was going to be competitive. I have said over and over that it takes time to build PAC-12 depth. That is exactly what we've been doing."

    Which explains... 4-5, 3-6, and 2-7 and two consecutive bowl-less seasons. (and another to come)

    And the endless criticisms about BYU's weak schedule.

    And the Utes open up with Idaho State this year... awesome!

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 6, 2014 10:26 a.m.

    Uncle festis
    Pasadena, CA

    "Y grad/Y Dad
    You're certainly right about one thing, playing against BYU sure does make Utah look good."

    Yep, playing Utah makes BYU look worse than we really are. Playing BYU makes Utah look better than they really are.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 5, 2014 11:56 p.m.

    @ CougarColby

    "They weren't the PAC12s first, second or even third choice (UT and OK, then maybe CO).....After it was apparent that UT and OK were not coming, they needed to look for the best options available."

    Followed by:

    "The ADs from USC, UCLA, Stanford and Oregon wouldn't have approved if they thought CO and Utah would win and be formidable opponents."

    You're arguing against yourself.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 5, 2014 9:26 p.m.

    @Uteology

    "The last time BYU beat ANY ranked P5 team was in 1996."

    Goodness. This can't be true, can it?

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    July 5, 2014 7:47 p.m.

    Uteology:
    Just FYI, since 2003 TCU is 1-3 vs OU & 1-2 vs Texas. Before joining the Big 12 they were 1-3 combined against those schools. Not even close to BYUs success against those programs since 2003. Again just because BYU struggled recently against some pretty good TCU teams doesn't mean TCU is the better program now or that TCU's struggles now are indicative that BYU couldn't compete (there's a whole lot of other issues facing TCU than just upgrade in SOS). Also remember that since 2009 TCU has been dominant over both BYU and Utah with Utah getting the biggest beating in either series in 2010, a 40 point TCU blowout (the year before they were also embarrassed by 27). If I were a ute fan I wouldn't bring up TCU at all in recent history to prove any piont in Utah's favor. Even the 2008 game at RES was a nail biter and just as easily could have been a TCU victory.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    July 5, 2014 7:20 p.m.

    Uteology:
    Why revise my statement? BYU is 5-1 against Texas and Oklahoma...no revision necessary, those are the facts whether you like them or not. BYU is 4-5 against Washington while U are 0-8. Those are facts that don't require any revision. Whether the teams were ranked or not has nothing to do with my statement. 5-1, 4-5...facts.

    As for 2007 UNLV...no they weren't better than UVA and played in a weaker conference. Even if they were a fraction better than UVA (look at UVA's recruits and unlv's and then try and tell me who's better) that still doesn't explain a 4 TD loss in perfect weather, in a regional game...compared to BYUs 3 point loss because of a late TO in inclement weather on the east coast. Nice try, but Utah's embarrassing blow out loss to the Rebels will always take the cake on "worst loss in recent memory".

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 5, 2014 6:50 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    BYU is 2-1 vs OU and Texas in the BCS era. Edwards record is meaningless to how competitive BYU would be today.

    Since 2003, TCU lost to top 10 ranked Oklahoma, Texas, and Baylor as a mid-major and beat unranked Oklahoma, Baylor, Texas Tech.

    The last time BYU beat ANY ranked P5 team was in 1996. Care to revise your statement?

    2007 UNLV had ONE more win over a D1 team than 2013 Virgina. The better team? UNLV by one game.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 5, 2014 6:15 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    I can't speak for AZUTE but I never said Utah was going to be competitive. I have said over and over that it takes time to build PAC-12 depth. That is exactly what we've been doing.

    @Riverton Cougar

    Can you show me where Phil Steel said BYU would be competitive in a P5 conference?

    It was only the author of this article. Who apparently took Steel's ranking to prove BYU's competitiveness against P5 teams.

    * Not the fact that BYU went 2-5 vs P5 teams last year
    * Nor that in the BCS era BYU has a losing record vs P5 teams
    * Or that Utah and TCU, two teams that BYU can't compete against today, those two teams have better talent than BYU yet have struggled to compete at the next level.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    July 5, 2014 4:51 p.m.

    AZUTE:
    "UVA was hands-down the single worst L the state's seen in memory..."

    Nope, that honor goes to Utah's 27-0 beat down at the hands of perennial power UNLV...once again, a ute fan with selective memory. BYU has never had such a humiliating loss. Losing by 3 on the road to UVA is a far cry from being "brutally curb stomped" (to use your vernacular) by 4 TDs to one of the worst teams in the history of the MWC.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    July 5, 2014 4:06 p.m.

    BYU needs all the hype help it can get. Phil Steele is doing them a favor. On the field they generate no hype outside of Provo. And don't help themselves when traditionally losing to ranked teams on ESPN. How are those TV ratings working for ya? Not good.

    Someone said it earlier. BYU has never played a real schedule. Playing Big 12 opponents every week would not be easy. Even against schools like Iowa St. & W. Virginia.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    July 5, 2014 11:53 a.m.

    "True, but the difference is we have one Ute fan (Sorry Chris) vs. Ducky, worf, Bluto, Veritas (+20 user names), I Bleed Blue, Y Grad/Why Dad, etc.

    Plus, 1,000 DN articles. Including this one, which claims BYU would be competitive in a P5 league when reality shows otherwise."

    Uteology,

    Is this a list of BYU fans saying BYU would be competitive in a P5 conference? Or is it about claiming BYU would dominate a P5 conference? There is a huge difference. Besides, it is not unreasonable to think that BYU would be competitive in a P5 conference; Steele apparently is under the impression as well (I guess you are going to say Phil Steele wears blue goggles as well?).

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 5, 2014 11:48 a.m.

    "LOL... That was 2-10 Virigia's ONLY D1 win of the season. It shouldn't be that difficult for a legacy program down south."

    UVA was hands-down the single worst L the state's seen in memory....'11 CU, for instance, had 3 Ws over FBS schools.

    bm is 2-5 against The PAC-12, which includes getting completely blown-out 3 times, 2 times at home and 1 time on a neutral-field, and going 0-3 against The U....All 7 games were played at random, not in back to back fashion....Imagine byu having to play all of these schools in a weekly grind....They'd get destroyed.

  • Uncle festis Pasadena, CA
    July 5, 2014 10:34 a.m.

    Y grad/Y Dad
    You're certainly right about one thing, playing against BYU sure does make Utah look good.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    July 5, 2014 10:33 a.m.

    Uteology & AZUTE:
    We all had to listen to Utah fans like yourselves talk about how competitive you'd be in the PAC12. Now we listen to all the revisionism about how you all "knew that it would take time to build a winning program" in the PAC12. With that in mind, please forgive us if what you predict concerning BYU falls on deaf ears and holds no water.

    BYU is 5-1 against the two flagship programs in the Big 12, so they don't agree with how U believe BYU would fair in their league (FYI TCU didn't fair well against them before they were in the Big 12, unlike BYU). BYU has beaten Washington half the time they've played them, so they wouldn't agree that BYU would be the same cupcake to them that U are (no wins against the Huskies).

    I'm sure BYU would also struggle in a P5 league as Utah and TCU have, but BYU has a niche that neither TCU or Utah has. If BYU were in a P5 league they would most likely get nearly every highly regarded Mormon player instead of them going to other schools because of conference.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 7:44 p.m.

    Old But Not Stupid
    Moorpark, CA

    AZUTE1
    Mesa, AZ

    "It literally couldn't be any more palpable how they'd fare w/in a P5 conference....Look no further than The U's/TCU's struggles, 2 schools byu can never beat."

    So, AZUTE1, BYU has NEVER beaten TCU or Utah in football? Can I mark that bit of revisionist history down? Or would you kindly correct your misleading statement?

    -------------

    Here let me help him...

    BYU has lost 8 straight (0-8) vs Utah/TCU.

    Is that clear enough for you?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 7:42 p.m.

    @phantomblade
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    AZUTE1

    "BYU had all off-season to prepare for UVA and lost...."

    LOL at your deluded misleading spin. Anybody who knows anything about college football knows that the first game is the most difficult to prepare for;

    ------------

    LOL... That was 2-10 Virigia's ONLY D1 win of the season. It shouldn't be that difficult for a legacy program down south.

    BYU was 2-5 vs P5 teams last year (Utah 2-7).
    BYU was 6-0 vs mid-majors last year (Utah 3-0).

    "On the other hand, what was Utah's excuse for losing to 10-loss Colorado at home, when U had an entire season to prepare?"

    How about injuries to our starting QB and RB.

    Beat's your excuse: "rain".

    FYI we had one week to prepare, just like you do with most other games without a buy week.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 5:18 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "BYU had all off-season to prepare for UVA and lost...."

    LOL at your deluded misleading spin. Anybody who knows anything about college football knows that the first game is the most difficult to prepare for; that's why Utah usually starts its season playing a I-AA school like Weber State, at home, to iron out the kinks before the Utes play a more difficult opponent.

    On the other hand, what was Utah's excuse for losing to 10-loss Colorado at home, when U had an entire season to prepare?

    Bronco is 9-9(50%) versus PAC 12 teams.
    Kyle is 13-21(38%).

    Bronco never lost to fellow conference bottom dwellers like NM, Wyo, CSU and UNLV.
    Kyle lost to all of them, including getting shut out by 10-loss UNLV 0-27.

    Bronco won two MWC championships.
    Kyle only won one.

    Bronco had three 11+ win, Top 15 seasons.
    Kyle only had one.

    BYU's consistency in seldom losing to bad teams, especially conference bottom dwellers, explains why BYU has won 23 WAC/MWC championships.

    On the other hand, Utah's inconsistency in beating conference teams they're supposed to beat explains why Utah only won 6 WAC/MWC championship, and why the Utah aren't competitive in the PAC.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 4:35 p.m.

    yabuts

    Since BYU and Utah joined a conference that someone besides your great grandfather remembers:

    BYU 29-23-0

    Average Score: BYU 27.6, Utah 23.4

    AP Top 25 Finishes: BYU 17, Utah 5

    11+ Win Seasons: BYU 11, Utah 2

    Conference Championships: BYU 23, Utah 6

    Bowl Games: BYU 32, Utah 16

    National Championships: BYU 1, Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies: BYU 1, Utah 0

    National Individual Awards: BYU 15, Utah 0

    National Hall of Fame Players: BYU 6, Utah 0

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    July 4, 2014 4:17 p.m.

    AZUTE1
    Mesa, AZ

    "It literally couldn't be any more palpable how they'd fare w/in a P5 conference....Look no further than The U's/TCU's struggles, 2 schools byu can never beat."

    So, AZUTE1, BYU has NEVER beaten TCU or Utah in football? Can I mark that bit of revisionist history down? Or would you kindly correct your misleading statement?

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 4, 2014 3:47 p.m.

    "Plus, 1,000 DN articles. Including this one, which claims BYU would be competitive in a P5 league when reality shows otherwise."

    byu had all off-season to prepare for UVA and lost....They had bye-weeks preceding U/Wisc, both of which were coming off of grueling conference games, and lost both....They had Idaho State preceding ND and lost....Finally, they had weeks to prepare for a UW team minus all of their primary coaches and lost....byu would finish at the bottom of any P5 conference's standings, hands-down.

    It literally couldn't be any more palpable how they'd fare w/in a P5 conference....Look no further than The U's/TCU's struggles, 2 schools byu can never beat.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    July 4, 2014 3:35 p.m.

    Oh I love it - the local football hype has begun. That means college football cannot be far off which is great news!. We'll have to wait and see how it all shakes out. Will BYU have the kind of exciting season we anticipate and go bowling again as expected? Will the Utes be able to beat anyone in the PAC12? Will Coach Whit survive another couch potato bowl? You gotta love the intrigue baby!

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    July 4, 2014 3:24 p.m.

    I agree with GilmerTexasCougarl I also think the Cougs will need to have like an 11-1 season to gain the kind of momentum and recognition they would like. Short of having a really good season this year I think the seat Broncho is on will starting getting kind of warm. That said, the seat Kyle Whitingham is on will be red hot if the Utes go the another couch potatoe bowl (which is likely) - Whit will be toast if that happens.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 1:30 p.m.

    @Darren Rowe

    The unrealistic preseason hype comes from blue-goggled BYU fans, but every team has those types of fans.

    If you don't believe me, check out all the ute fans who are convinced that utah will make a bowl game and contend for a Pac-12 title this year.

    -------------

    True, but the difference is we have one Ute fan (Sorry Chris) vs. Ducky, worf, Bluto, Veritas (+20 user names), I Bleed Blue, Y Grad/Why Dad, etc.

    Plus, 1,000 DN articles. Including this one, which claims BYU would be competitive in a P5 league when reality shows otherwise.

  • yabuts Springville, utah
    July 4, 2014 12:28 p.m.

    EDDIE:

    Eddie, we are talking football. Eddie, you stated, "Lets look a the whole history". It seems people like you put a great deal of credence on things that have happened in the past.

    OK, lets look at the WHOLE history.

    Since the first game held on Oct. 14th, 1921, Utah is (54-31-4)

    Average score: Utah 24 - BYU 18.7

    How much more "whole" can you get.

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    July 4, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    Preseason champs again.

    Sweet.

  • CougarColby Fort Benning, GA
    July 4, 2014 8:29 a.m.

    I blows my mind that Utah fans post on Cougar stories. I can't even tell you the last time I read a story about Utah. I am not a fan of their team and unless I know a player personally, I don't read their articles. To me, the situation is so clear.

    1)Utah is in a P5 conference, and very fortunate to be. They weren't the PAC12s first, second or even third choice (UT and OK, then maybe CO). The PAC wanted a Conference Champ Game, according to the NCAA you must have 12 teams to have a game. After it was apparent that UT and OK were not coming, they needed to look for the best options available. Utah was close by and had some recent success, and then CO.

    The ADs from USC, UCLA, Stanford and Oregon wouldn't have approved if they thought CO and Utah would win and be formidable opponents. They want to maintain their National standing and compete not for a conference championship but national. Utah provided a 12th team, and one that would not win on a constant basis. Hope you guys like the cellar...

  • Darren Rowe Heber City, UT
    July 4, 2014 8:28 a.m.

    @Uncle festis

    "There is no better preseason team in the nation than byu.. then the season starts."

    You must be reading a different Phil Steele magazine than I am, because BYU is usually ranked in the 30's or low 40's every preseason.

    And they usually finish ranked in the 30's or low 40's at the end of every season.

    The unrealistic preseason hype comes from blue-goggled BYU fans, but every team has those types of fans.

    If you don't believe me, check out all the ute fans who are convinced that utah will make a bowl game and contend for a Pac-12 title this year. They make excuses of injuries and first-year offensive coordinators, but they fail to realize that injuries will always happen in football and they have another first-year coordinator.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 4, 2014 7:49 a.m.

    byu has never been tested by a big boy schedule, which literally entails a weekly grind. This is always conveniently omitted by tds fans in this discussion.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 4, 2014 4:04 a.m.

    @ Steven S Jarvis

    This is a college football forum. CCG = conference championship game, and you won't find one person here who disagrees with that.

    BYU is in a much better position to rack up a bunch of meaningless wins over mediocre (at best) competition. This year it doesn't matter if they win 6 or 11 games. They will be bowling in a lower tier bowl against another mid-major from the AAC. I would argue that Utah is in a better position to succeed because of the post season access the PAC-12 has. If Utah wins 7 or 8 games they will land in a more prestigious bowl game than BYU, even if the Cougs win 11 games.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 4, 2014 2:53 a.m.

    ExecutorIoh
    West Jordan, UT

    BYU is consistently above average where they rarely beat the ranked teams, but then they beat who they are supposed to beat.

    -----------

    Finally, a BYU fan who readily admits that BYU should never beat Utah.

    Thanks for that.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 3, 2014 10:31 p.m.

    @utehacountyute

    I've already done it, numerous times. Use your google.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 3, 2014 8:04 p.m.

    I Bleed Blue
    Las Vegas, NV

    It is a hot summer night. The Ute posters have read the Phil Steele article about those dreaded cougars and no mention of their beloved Utes.

    ------------

    Dreaded Cougars? Really? Utah fears BYU as much we fear Idaho State.

  • I Bleed Blue Las Vegas, NV
    July 3, 2014 7:18 p.m.

    It is a hot summer night. The Ute posters have read the Phil Steele article about those dreaded cougars and no mention of their beloved Utes. Why, why is this happening? Can't Steele see? The Cougars are only a mid major. Not big five worthy. They collectively reflect for a moment on this grave injustice. These Utah fans also come collectively to the conclusion that they must let others know about this but how? The Deseret News will surely have a reaction to this. Cougar fans flock to these articles. Utah posters will in mass post something clever. That will teach Steele and It will make everything better. They wait patiently and behold the article appears at 10:25. Beads of sweat hit various keyboards as rounds are fire off in open rebuttle. Sleep comes easy to the Ute posters later that night as dreams of Rose Bowls and National Championships dance through their collective heads. All is right now.... All is right now.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 3, 2014 4:57 p.m.

    Uncle festis

    And there is no better team in the nation than Utah after the BYU game. Then the rest of the season settles in.

  • Uncle festis Pasadena, CA
    July 3, 2014 4:41 p.m.

    There is no better preseason team in the nation than byu.. then the season starts.

  • ExecutorIoh West Jordan, UT
    July 3, 2014 3:12 p.m.

    Everybody know that there is a fundamental difference between BYU and Utah. BYU is consistently above average where they rarely beat the ranked teams, but then they beat who they are supposed to beat. Utah is the exact opposite and know how to rise for the big games, whether it is the Sugar Bowl or games against BYU. Problem with Utah is that they then turn around and lose to people that they have no business losing to.

    You can read comment on here all day and night where fans hand pick the stats that favors their teams. It could be the big games that Utah has won or BYU's history. In the end we are all fans of our own teams and it we just accept that it is a bunch of games that are played for entertainment purposes with little lasting value.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    July 3, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    @yabuts

    The answer is obvious:Utah is ONE-DIMENSIONAL. Sure they seem to have the Cougars number, but they haven't been all that good against the rest of their schedule.

  • yabuts Springville, utah
    July 3, 2014 2:19 p.m.

    EDDIE:

    I have to correct my last statement, It should read 3 of 12 games 2001.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    July 3, 2014 2:01 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red

    "Y fans are not gonna like this. They all claim that BYU would tear up the Big 12 if they got invited."

    I've never heard or seen any BYU fan make the claim that you falsely assert.

    Go Myles Jack & UCLA!!

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    July 3, 2014 1:50 p.m.

    Ya buts,

    How does being ranked lower than a team you beat grab you? Just goes to show u that one game does not make a season. That would be like comparing the trophy case with BYU and u. While u may have a couple of little trophies in your shoebox, BYU has a case full of hardware that u can only dream of! Let's compare conference championships! Let' s not just look at a couple of things, let's look at the whole history. U can not do that without being truthful that BYU just leaves u in the dust.

  • yabuts Springville, utah
    July 3, 2014 1:16 p.m.

    EDDIE:

    "Rankings are Rankings, year in and year out byu is ranked higher than Utah"

    Pray tell, how does 3 of 11, 0 of 4 and 54-10 grab you!!!...(:(

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    July 3, 2014 12:32 p.m.

    Duck

    Please produce those "numerous" quotes from U fans. I'll wait.

    Was this written by captain obvious? The rest of the schedule has the likes of UNLV, Mid Tenn, Virginia, Uconn and Savannah State! Not to mention Boise,Nevada and Cal are not what they once were.

    The cougs better go 9-2!

  • WhoRtheUtes??? Elko, NV
    July 3, 2014 10:33 a.m.

    I love when the Ute Football Nation comes out to talk about BYU football. It just goes to show every football Fan discussion leads back to BYU..... Rise and Shout!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 3, 2014 9:12 a.m.

    With a losing record.

    The utes have made more teams qualify for bowl games.

    Every conference has a need for doormats.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    July 3, 2014 8:41 a.m.

    If the experts believe that BYU would be in the middle of the pack of any of the P5 conferences, wouldn't that be better than the cellar dwelling Utes? I would much rather end up ranked higher, on paper or in the minds of the experts, than sitting dead last and end up trying to brag to others about how great and powerful u are.
    Rankings are rankings and year in and year out BYU is ranked higher than u.

  • JP Skillet Salt Lake City, UT
    July 3, 2014 8:36 a.m.

    Then why do they continue to get schlacked by Utah every year?

  • UgottaloveMaxie Salt Lake City, UT
    July 3, 2014 8:35 a.m.

    And the preseason hype begins. Gotta love Cougar nation...smh

  • Levin Reno, NV
    July 3, 2014 8:07 a.m.

    I think BYU is on par with B5 teams like Utah, Georgia Tech, Boston College, Arizona, Arizona State, better than teams like Virginia, Rutgers, Purdue, and Washington State, and not as good as teams like Alabama, Ohio State, Oregon, and Oklahoma. Their recent record against the middle-of-the-pack teams is reasonable (except for Utah), they are good against the bottom of the pack teams, and haven't played enough games against the top-tier B5 teams to say one way or another. That sounds like a middle-of-the-pack B5 team to me.

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    July 3, 2014 8:03 a.m.

    If you're hated than your're doing something right, and judging by these comments. BYU is doing something right.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    July 3, 2014 8:01 a.m.

    @2fer

    I laughed pretty hard at the CCG thing. Collectible card games are the most common use for CCG. So is Utah more like Pokemon or Magic the Gathering? That is easy--Pokemon. Utah is like Jigglypuff. They are good enough to be added but squishy enough that they won't consistently finish ahead of the good old boys.

    Utah will never be able to complete consistently for its division let alone the league title. It is nearly impossible for them to out recruit USC and UCLA. Arizona and Arizona State should almost always get better recruits than Utah as well. Its just reality. Utah will get the third tier players of the league.

    Where does this leave BYU? BYU is in a much better position to succeed than Utah is because they control the schedule. Both teams are getting about the same tier of recruits, but one team has the ability to balance when they play the hardest games. BYU will likely finish above the Utes in the final rankings for the forseeable future.

  • positivethinker Magna, UT
    July 3, 2014 1:46 a.m.

    With the easy schedule BYU plays this year, you don't need an expert to say they will go 9-3 or 10-2.

  • JDL Magna, UT
    July 3, 2014 12:42 a.m.

    @ tomahawk red

    Will you please back up your claim that all Y fans claim BYU would tear up the big12?

    Yea, I thought so, another frantic and emotional, not to mention, intentional misrepresentation of the facts. Oh, excuse me, frantic and emotional is Navel Vet's catch phrase.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 3, 2014 12:04 a.m.

    "The only downside of the Steele analysis is that BYU would be in the middle of the pack in nearly all of the power 5 conference." -- Ken Driggs

    What? BYU would be in the middle of the pack in nearly all of the power 5 conferences?

    How so?

    In which P5 conference would BYU be allowed to play 3 P5 teams, 7 mid-majors, and 2 D2 teams?

    "If the Power 5 conferences were to use Phil Steele's ratings as a litmus test to determine if BYU would qualify as a competitive team in their sphere, the answer would be a resounding yes." -- Ken Driggs

    The P5 teams don't need Steele's ratings as a litmus test to see how competitive BYU would be in a P5 league. They can just look at...

    * BYU's awful BCS resume
    * Or that BYU went 2-5 vs P5 teams last year
    * Or that BYU has a losing record vs P5 without the grind of a P5 schedule (Utah and TCU had the top 2 winning percentage as mid-majors in the BCS era)
    * Or the fact that BYU hasn't beat a final ranked P5 team since 1996

  • Darren Rowe Heber City, UT
    July 2, 2014 11:55 p.m.

    @Tomahawk Red

    I don't know what BYU fans you have been talking to, but most of them, including myself, would quickly admit that BYU would not win the Big 12. In my opinion, we would be a border-line bowl team just like the utes.

    I think BYU would have a better shot at getting to a bowl simply because the Pac-12 is deeper. Both conferences present 2 or 3 games that are very tough for BYU and utah. The difference is that the Pac-12 only provides the utes with 2 games that should be easy wins in Wash. St. and Colorado. Somehow they don't easily win those games which is beyond me.

    In the Big 12 I think there are more easy wins with Kansas, Iowa St, West Virginia, and even TCU. I'm not saying BYU would 100% absolutely beat those teams, but they would certainly be favored.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    July 2, 2014 10:52 p.m.

    Thank you Steele but I rather see the live game than all the talk stuff. I'll believe it when we can play ball on the Offense side of BYU including at the Blue Zone, PLEASE!

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 2, 2014 10:06 p.m.

    Utah'95
    FPO, AE

    Fair comment, I appreciate you stopping short of the "this schedule stinks" drivel we are accustomed to hearing.

    I like most BYU fans beleive every game on our schedule is winnable, but we appreciate that Texas, Houston, Central Florida, Boise and Utah State will all be significant challenges.

    Shoot, most of us cougar fans will not sleep well till we prove we can beat Virginia. Not dissin' the team, just admiting that there some things that have left a bad taste in our mouth.

    Nothing that a whole lotta winnin' won't fix!

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    July 2, 2014 8:23 p.m.

    This is BYU's big chance to go undefeated again.

    Texas will likely be the best team they face, but ESPN believes that the Cougars will be better than every other team they face in 2014.

    BYU likely won't have this good of an opportunity in the foreseeable future. They had better make the most of it.

  • 2020 Herriman, UT
    July 2, 2014 7:28 p.m.

    I really don't understand some of the smack that some BYU fans run, when no matter how Utah did in the PAC 12, or whether or not they went to a bowl game, or however else you can spin it so the Utes aren't good, BYU still can't beat them.

  • GilmerTexasCougar Gilmer, TX
    July 2, 2014 7:09 p.m.

    Little Pete, there is a greater chance that Kyle Whittingham will be fired at the end of the season for again missing going to a bowl game than the chance that Utah will win the Rose Bowl. Since he is a former BYU Cougar, I actually like KW and hope he does well, but since his great undefeated season, Utah has really gone down hill. Now, that is not to say that BYU has done anything special because they lost to Utah four years in a row. Both teams need to win a lot of games. That, and only that, will solve the problems of both teams. We will know a lot more at the end of this coming season.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 6:42 p.m.

    @ Bigtimecoug

    Utah and CU bring the ability to have a CCG. I doubt anybody is kicking themselves with the 20+ million dollars the conf. generates for it's own members. Also, FWIW since Utah joined the PAC-12 it has gone 9-1 (including a bowl win) against non-conference foes. That makes the conference look stronger, not weaker.

  • GilmerTexasCougar Gilmer, TX
    July 2, 2014 6:40 p.m.

    I hate to say this, but as an avid BYU football fan, I disagree that 9-3 or even 10-2 will be a good season for BYU. For the last few years the Cougars have been terrible against Power 5 teams. Only at 11-1 can BYU claim a good year, in my opinion, and it really needs to be 13-0 (yes, they must win their bowl game). Last year's performance in the bowl game against Washington stunk. Bronco only used half the days to prepare and the team absolutely looked like it. The game was an embarrassment. This team has the talent to go 13-0. I hope they get the necessary coaching.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 2, 2014 5:42 p.m.

    "In other words, they haven't learned a thing from Utah and TCU."

    Two schools byu can never beat.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 4:52 p.m.

    "Phil Steele's ratings as a litmus test to determine if BYU would qualify as a competitive team"
    Reminds me of the (formerly) annual predictions of how BYU would do against Utah -- "On paper", we should beat them this year!

    On field results paint a different picture. On field, BYU would finish behind Utah in the PAC12 and behind TCU in the Big12.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 2, 2014 4:21 p.m.

    @Irrelevent

    I promise tomahawk red cannot produce one single verifiable quote from a single BYU fan making that claim.

    I on the otherhand can, and have, provided numerous quotes from utah "fans" claiming utah was going to win their division, win the league championship, play in the rose bowl, win the rose bowl, and even go undefeated, before their first two season in the pac12.

    lol

  • Irrelevant Provo, UT
    July 2, 2014 3:45 p.m.

    @Tomahawk Red

    Who ever said BYU would "tear up" the B12? sources?

    There're many people who believe BYU would be competative (ask OU or UT), but "tear up"? I don't think that was ever said.

    God bless Tomahawk Red.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 3:37 p.m.

    "If the Power 5 conferences were to use Phil Steele's ratings as a litmus test to determine if BYU would qualify as a competitive team in their sphere, the answer would be a resounding yes."

    As usual, are friends from the hill are more concerned about where Phil ranks BYU in P5 competitiveness, than they are with where he ranks the Utes in PAC 12 competitiveness.

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    July 2, 2014 2:44 p.m.

    @Chris B

    Remember this classic quote from a Ute article last week? Oh the irony.

    Chris B

    Salt Lake City, UT

    Why are WCC fans even on this article?
    9:14 a.m. June 25, 2014

  • WhoRtheUtes??? Elko, NV
    July 2, 2014 2:08 p.m.

    It is so fantastic. Almost everyday BYU is in the talking points of the whole national media. Good time to be a Cougar Fan! Can't wait for the season to begin.....

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 1:47 p.m.

    the rock

    "They simply do not want to add anyone to their private little club."

    Except for Utah and TCU, which they did want to add. They just don't want to add byU

  • Bigtimecoug Houston, TX
    July 2, 2014 1:37 p.m.

    I guess the PAC 10 litmus test wasn't working when they decided to add Utah and Colorado to the league. I laugh every time I think about how the original PAC members must be kicking themselves for being strapped with two programs that bring nothing to the table.

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    July 2, 2014 1:34 p.m.

    How can this can't be? Because byu isn't prestegous like we are and shouldn't be recognized better than us. This isn't right. Doesn't steele no better?

    Go Utes!

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    July 2, 2014 1:33 p.m.

    The power 5 conferences have one criteria: Money.
    With that conflict of interest it is doubtful that they would have an impartial objective opinion. They simply do not want to add anyone to their private little club.

    You have to remember that the BCS was created as a reaction to BYU winning the national championship. They wanted to insure that no "upstart" ever did that again.

    Funny how all the Utes protested when the U did not get the national championship when they were arguably the best team in the country. Now they crow when the same "impartial" voices dis on BYU.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 2, 2014 1:24 p.m.

    "The only downside of the Steele analysis is that BYU would be in the middle of the pack in nearly all of the power 5 conferences."

    Y fans are not gonna like this. They all claim that BYU would tear up the Big 12 if they got invited.

    In other words, they haven't learned a thing from Utah and TCU.

  • WhoRtheUtes??? Elko, NV
    July 2, 2014 12:59 p.m.

    It appears the experts who rank college football teams also have their litmus test and YES, once again the Utes are left wanting...

  • MileHighCougarFan Brighton, CO
    July 2, 2014 12:57 p.m.

    And the first person to comment on a BYU football article is...

    Chris B.

    No way. What are the odds?

    I am just glad that someone who is doing some serious research is neutral and sees BYU for what it is.

    I do believe BYU would get a few higher caliber players if they were in a power 5 conference, but as they are, they have done more without a conference than many do with a power 5 conference.

  • Little Pete South Jordan, UT
    July 2, 2014 12:40 p.m.

    Those cougars will never play with the big boys! The Utes will always be ranked ahead of them. Utah is gonna win the rose bowl this year!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 2, 2014 12:24 p.m.

    Chris B,

    Yep!

  • Royal ACP Logan, UT
    July 2, 2014 12:21 p.m.

    Hey Chris BYU Expert,

    how did Steele rate the U? Didn't check? Yeah, I would try to avoid that depressing news as well if I were U...

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 11:53 a.m.

    The power 5 already have their own litmus tests for whether byu is worthy of being in a power 5 conference.

    All 5 agree.