So a group thinks there is a big conspiracy to end a newspaper that is having
financial problems? You could file that lawsuit in every city and state in
Someone mentioned that the Tribune claims to delete hateful comments etc. but
what they really do is disable the accounts of those who resist evil or of those
who dare to kindly stand up to their bullying tactics etc. I thought this
comment was a joke "...(we) have already infiltrated your puny Tribune to
stop anyone who tries to expose our eventual rise to power. Once we finally gain
full control of the White House (which is already in our pocket, thanks to
Obama)...putting a stop to discrimination based on sexual orientation! The most
evil conspiracy ever enacted! You can never stop us." but I started to
wonder what is really going on there when, right after that was posted by
someone with leverage there, I found that my Tribune account had been disabled,
AGAIN. So I didn't go back, why support the propaganda machine?
I enjoy reading the Deseret News, and I think they do a good job catering to
their core demographic (of which I'm a constituent). For their own sake, I
hope they're profitable, but I recognize that the church may choose to run
the paper at a loss for a number of reasons, including its value as a PR
platform and as part of its SEO strategy.When controversial events
related to the church crop up, I like to see what the Tribune has to say. As
much as I like the Deseret News, I've observed that the DN's reporting
on such events will either be very limited or strongly biased in favor of the
church. I feel like the Trib's stories, coupled with the DN stories, give
me a more complete understanding of the viewpoints on all sides of the issue. (I
suspect the church is grateful to have this outside perspective as well.) For
that reason alone, I would hate to see the Trib disappear, even though I
generally prefer the Deseret News.
Hilarious - the left always accuses the right of being conspiracy theorists, and
look who's engaged in the biggest conspiracy theory of all - the big bad
Mormon church is out to get the Trib when the Trib itself says that the
agreement saved the Trib! Priceless.
To "FelisConcolor" not to take away from what you say, the proper
response is that the neither the DN or Trib could exist based on circulation
subscriptions.The DN gets a large portion of its revenues primarily
through print advertisements paid for by the advertisers, and through online
advertisements. To help cut costs, they merged KSL TV and Radio news room with
the DN so that they could minimize overhead costs. In other words, they made
themselves very lean.The Trib gets some money from print
advertisements, but as they pointed out, they get $500,000 from online ads. If
it wasn't for the advertisements, they would have folded years ago. Unlike
the DN, the Trib has not merged with a radio or TV news team to cut costs. The
cost to get local news is higher for them, and will eventually kill them unless
they can increase print subscriptions.
@CHS 85:"Let's see how well the DN will do without an
infusion of money from souces other than circulation subscriptions."Well, since Utah is roughly 2/3 LDS, their potential market is twice as
big as the Trib's, so the Deseret News has a lot more potential
subscribers, regardless of any subsidy from the LDS Church.And the
LDS Church is a private organization. They are free to spend their money on
whatever they deem important, including their newspaper. Just as wealthy
supporters of the Tribune are free to provide their own subsidies to their
newspaper if they felt it was that important.But it's easier
and cheaper for Trib supporters to get the courts to do their dirty work.
Reading the comments section on Trib articles reminds me so much of my younger
days staring into the carp pond at Lagoon. The pond was full of what appeared to
be starving carp. If anything (and I mean anything) was tossed into the pond,
the carp would immediately roil around it in a frenzy... thrashing at it to get
a piece of whatever it was. Then they would drift to the bottom until the next
item was tossed in and the scene would repeat. I still see the frenzy today
only now it is now on the Trib's reader comment page in the form of a
relatively small, but fanatic group (most I would bet are former members of the
Mormon church) who detest anything and all things Mormon. Because one
"mormon" article can easily generate 200-500 comments, it appears the
Trib's viewership is much larger than it really is when in fact it is the
same hardcore group moving from "Mormon" article to "Mormon"
article and commenting over and over again. I think it is clear why the Trib
Without the JOA, the Trib would die. And it would be a fast death. I'd
allow these former disgruntled Trib employees to buy the Trib, dismantle the
JOA, and let them run the Trib on their own. The Trib would be dead within a
Doesn't anyone see the sarcasm in what Bill McGee said? I can't
believe anyone took what he said seriously.
"Gotta save the 'Trib . . . gotta save the 'Trib!" Are you
crazy? The "Trib" is the poorest excuse for actual journalism that can
be imagined. It has a strong following from all the local socialists,
communists, and atheists in the area, but anyone with any ability to reason can
tell right away that it's anything but journalism, and the writers and
commentators are interested in anything but truth. It's a silly liberal
rag that gets worse every year, and we can easily do without it.
Hey folks, don't all businesses, whether the beer battles, or the burger
wars are trying to gain a bigger market share than it competitors. Those who
find a need or a niche and fill it do well and those who don't fail. I
fail to see the need for any business to shore up its competitor unless the two
businesses complement each other.
I really don't care if the sltrib survives or not. I have read it on
occasion over the years and the anger, and anti-religion, anti-Mormon, liberal
slant does not attract me nor my pocket book. Hardly anyone who is
crying for two editorial voices would whisper a word of support if the desnews
were in financial straits. Much of the problems of the sltrib's
current predicament are the result of the original owners selling the paper with
intent of repurchasing it but the deal went south and here we are in the throes
of capitalistic intrigue with the owners seeking profits from their privately
held business.Maybe a "save the trib" bake-sale is in
order.Life happens, and we get to watch in this case.
The reason that the Trib is going broke is that you don't even have to read
it any more to know what it contains on any given day. You already know that
it's writers dislike the LDS Church, and their articles will reflect those
sentiments on almost all issues. You also know that those who post comments on
the electronic version seem to belong to the whiners club about anything
religious in nature. The paper is predictable, and therefore, actually boring
because you already know that their little formula of jabbing at the Mormons
will satisfy a certain percent of Utah's population. Trouble is, that
percentage just isn't big enough to show a profit through readership.
These comments could just as easily be put in an article about the Utah-BYU
football rivalry...both are somewhat somewhat childish!
Blatant prejudice against the Mormon church is what appears to behind the
lawsuit. Unfounded suspicions that are completely founded. It's the deep
seeded and bitter "blame the Mormons for everything" mentality that
exists in some quarters that helped spread the misinformation and that is behind
all the hyperbole.It's a product of the ideological world of the
Brent T, Thank you for your insightful perspective. Many
cities are down to one newspaper. I surmise (with no first hand evidence) that
the DesNews has not been profitable for some time, but continues because its
owner thinks it is an important voice. That is perfectly appropriate. Two local
newspapers are better than one, in my opinion. But if the owners of the Tribune
get to the point where they can't make a profit, I don't see
there's much anyone can do about it.
Surprise, surprise - There are two sides to the JOA story after all! I
don't fault the Tribune for covering the new JOA and discussing its
potential impact, but its staff and supporters are overeager to play victim.Like many transactions between privately held companies, the new JOA
negotiations were conducted in secret. Why wouldn't they be? Strong
journalism is a public service, but the Justice Department doesn't require
a public comment period on proposed JOA changes.The pettiness of
Save the Tribune's website and lawsuit is astounding! They call the JOA
"diabolical" and claim the "Tribune will be dead in months."
They provide zero evidence of malicious intent nor evidence of the
Tribune's impending death. Unless both CEOs perjured themselves, the new
JOA will do more to save the Tribune than activist supporters ever will.
This from the perspective from the other side of the mountain. Here in Denver
we had two papers; for years they were at WAR (as a former employee I attest to
the appropriateness of that word for it -- down dirty, vindictive, bitter). Now
we barely have one. Print newspapers are a dying breed (the above reader
analogy to horse n' buggy going away with the advent of cars is
appropriate).While I read (online, free) the Deseret News, through
other websites I catch links to the SL Tribune and appreciate their articles for
what they are -- a clearly different editorial bias. And having two or more
sources is to be highly valued. So I don't dislike the Trib or wish for
its demise.But these are difficult times for newspapers and it is
(and will be) extremely rare for SLC to remain with two papers. Key to their
joint survival is that they don't waste their resources competing (pooling
those efforts where they can) and that they apply their efforts to journalistic
integrity and keeping their divergent voices. And, facing reality, they both
get out the print business. This amended JOA moves in that direction.
@LostinDC"There is a small hard-core contingent in this area
that diametrically opposes anything to do with the LDS church."There are also many of us who are LDS who want actual "news" and not
blog reports mixed with feature reports. The Trib is an actual newspaper while
the DN is a sanitized feature publication.
@FelisConcolor"The local news market should be the entity which
decides whether or not the Tribune stays in business, not the courts or the
government. If there is a sufficient demand for the Trib's brand of
journalism, then it will continue to exist."Let's see how
well the DN will do without an infusion of money from souces other than
Why did the Trib CEO give the D-news the right to refuse sale of the Trib to
anyone the D-News does not approve? The editorial independence of
the Trib is virtually gone. Prepare to get one version of everything.
The beauty of freedom of speech and the press, is you eventually find out what
is really in people's hearts. I learned that young, and it's proven
itself so many times through the years.The Trib has a long history
of providing an alternate view to the Des News.Both are valuable and
worthy of continuity, especially given this historical (but declining) influence
of the dominant religion in their circulation area and audience. Des News
tends to read like a house organ for the Church in some sections, but generally
is a pretty respectable secular newspaper as well. Different editorial biases,
but that's true at all media outlets everywhere; there are none perfectly
objective. That their new management is choosing a different path
for their income stream and product, the above remains in place and that's
a good thing. Sad it involved some layoffs and asset sales.Long
live the Trib, and Des News but better still, long live people having a public
voice. That is what America is really about. May they both
prosper in their chosen paths.
Iron Rod,I first read about this new JOA when it was being
negotiated in October 2013. There has been no secrecy. I said to myself back
then that this would create controversy. I hope the Tribune survives. Although
I don't agree with her, I have appreciated the Tribune's cover of Kate
Kelly and her excommunication from the LDS Church. To be quite frank, I think
the LDS Church wants the Tribune to report on issues that they themselves are
uncomfortable with but realize need reporting.
There is a small hard-core contingent in this area that diametrically opposes
anything to do with the LDS church. They see the Tribune as their media voice
and ANY change in its status as a threat by the church to silence opposition.
Their paranoia would be funny if it were not so sad.Bill McGee,Another voice is vital? What if it were the voice of a strongly anti-Semitic
or apartheid group, would it still be considered vital? The trib’s
editorial voice is that of its strong anti-LDS editorial board.You
talk of a news monopoly? How are you responding to this story, through a letter
to the editor, or through the internet. There is no such thing as a news
monopoly with the internet.
The lawsuit and the use of behind the scene power (Hatch to ATT) reflects the
unfortunate reality we live in today. The wealthy and those in power (closely
correlated) don't want their self serving moves revealed. A free society
needs free access to platforms where ideas can be propounded and debated. With
a less vigorous press we are moving away from this model at our peril.
"Why any propaganda paper like SL Tribune needs to be protected? Just
because its anti-Mormon tone in general?" - A_Chinese_American "Oh, no reason at all." - Editorial staff at the Nauvoo
I love news, but only if it is truthful. A long time ago, I realized that all
"news" is slanted. The outlet does not necessarily give an unbiased
look at the world, but it should be truthful and it should be fair. For that
reason, I don't expect the Tribune to be a news source. It serves more as
an opposing point of view. That's fine. There is opposition in all
things. If opposition is seen as a point of view and not as a compilation of
all the facts, then opposition helps us come to the truth. The problem is when
uninformed readers "swallow" the rhetoric without measuring that
rhetoric against standards. Then the gullible are deceived.Read
widely, but fact check the article. Even the Tribune gets it right -
Re: Liberal Ted "Then why doesn't anyone read it? That's all it
boils down to. If people actually read the tribune, it wouldn't have
financial issues. "Well, things are a lot more complicated than
that, as usual. The Trib got into trouble when its former owners tried to make
a fast buck manipulating their stock. These folks lost their ownership of the
Trib and the D-News swooped down in to take advantage. This continues to be the
case.The Trib has to survive as a NEWSPAPER, selling access to
information. The Deseret News on the other hand can survive by being a
religious tract in essence. This is not to say the D-News has no news, it does,
but a lot of it is snatch and grab stuff off of the wire. Moreover, the D-News
has an ultraconservative propaganda sheet for an editorial page. The main reason I read the D-news is because I enjoy having my views
challenged. Also, it is where I go to see what my fellow LDS think. The
D-News, giving it some credit, also has a lively format the Trib could learn
from. I want BOTH papers.
@FatherOfFour"I have seen really bad anti-LDS comments there too. But
likewise I have seen very mean-spirited and hateful comments here against anyone
who isn't LDS. "Yeah, but here it's a smaller volume
and degree thanks to the moderators. Even as an ex-Mormon I'm repulsed by a
sizable percentage of what gets said over on the Trib's comments (the
articles are fine with a few exceptions in my opinion, must like the case with
When people discovered automobiles and no longer needed buggy whips, the buggy
whip industry collapsed and died.Perhaps we are watching people
discover they no long need printed newspapers, and circulations for most are
dropping steadily (and have been for years), and most will inevitably go out of
business.The Deseret News, however, has been very innovative and
successful in pairing its news and advertising functions with radio, TV and on
line marketing and delivery. It is prospering, and circulation is strong,
unlike the isolationists in the Tribune with their one note chorus of
condemnation of conservatives.In this wonderful free country,
consumers can spend their dollars buying the Deseret News, The Salt Lake
Tribune, the New York Time, Washington Post, or Provo Herald. Or, all of the
above, some of them, or none of them. I pay for a subscription to
the print edition of the Deseret News, which best delivers news and commentary
that I believe to be relatively accurate, reliable and perceptive. (Although
still a bit too far left for my taste when regurgitating all the Associated
The first sign that you are not dealing with a fair news outlet with the Tribune
is the fact that they have a permanent category for "polygamy" at the
top of their website. In fact, it is listed 4th in importance on their site
right behind "Utah, "Nation/World", "Politics", and
"Justice".Apparently there is enough breaking news on the
polygamy front to necessitate its own category/heading.
If the tribune is soo important for the "non-Mormon" "secular"
etc. Then why doesn't anyone read it? That's all it boils down to.
If people actually read the tribune, it wouldn't have financial issues.
Then again, this is a foreign concept to left wing people, that believe all
things come from a big bloated government.
To "cval" yes, Glenn Beck's views that he expresses on his shows
are very much in line with the LDS teachings.LDS church tells its
members to have an emergency supply of food and money, GB does the same
thing.LDS church tell us to love our neighbors. GB held a rally
with the theme of restoring love for ALL our neighbors.LDS church
tells us to look for what we have in common with our neighbors to help unite us.
GB has been telling us to do the same with political issues.What
does GB teach or do that is contrary to LDS teachings and doctrine?
If people do not like consolidation, they need to get out and sell the
subscriptions, and those who do not like the DN should support it or do not cry
if it goes out of business. In both Cincinnati (Enquirer) and Indianapolis
(Star), there is only one paper in each of those locations, both are center-left
in their editorial and they wonder why they are losing subscribers. Parents who
have children should subscribe to a print paper, it will help on several fronts,
one of which an interest in community in a positive way, thus less prone to
gravitate to baser instincts.
The local news market should be the entity which decides whether or not the
Tribune stays in business, not the courts or the government. If there is a
sufficient demand for the Trib's brand of journalism, then it will continue
to exist.And in that sense, the future doesn't look too bright
for the Trib. Their business model is tailored to appeal to the fervent and
noisy but relatively small former/anti-Mormon demographic. While this gives
them a solid, reliable base of subscribers, it restricts them from increasing
their market share with other groups -- especially LDS readers.Constant Mormon-bashing might play well in the Avenues and at the U, but
it's a lousy strategy if you want to sell more papers in Davis or Utah
Counties -- or even in Herriman or Riverton.
"Deal with Deseret News designed to save, not hurt Tribune." Why does
the Tribune need saving - that is the question - considering that the Trib has
twice the circulation as the Deseret News. Is is because the Trib is expected
to support itself and the D-news is subsidized?
Father of Four - Thanks for the clarification. I was not indending
any offense, just wasn't sure I understood your post.cval - Agreed. I served with a bishopric counselor who stayed with only what
was said or written by the Prophet. Despite what some would say, Church leaders
stay out of most political debates. They allow us our agency so they really
don't direct us in all things.
As a member of the LDS church, I love the Deseret News. I'm interested in
church goings on and other stuff that I can't find in the Tribune, which is
far too liberal for me. I have no problem with the Tribune existing, but they
need to get more readers if they want to continue to keep on going.
RE: Bill McGhee "The Salt Lake Tribune is a critical voice in the
intermountain West. The Deseret News increasingly represents the editorial bias
of its owner - the LDS Church. "This is true. Increasingly the
Deseret News is a paper by Mormons FOR Mormons. I guess the "Gentiles"
can just go hang. I read the D-News and the Trib everyday. I need
them for comparison. Going back to when the D-News became a morning
paper, I think the D-News has been plotting the end of the Trib for years.And indeed, why the secrecy?
If they are there to save the Tribune and journalism, then why as the staff been
so drastically reduced over the last few years and the bulk of the
Tribune's profits going to fund staff increases at the DesNews? I'm
sorry, but most people aren't stupid. The only reason the DesNews is
saying this is due to the fact that an anti-trust ruling could come down against
them if they didn't say they were playing nice. Think about how ridiculous
it sounds. Imagine McDonald's saying that it is taking the bulk of Burger
King's profits in order to save it? lol
@Red Wings: Don't ever count on any politician or media personality to
tell you what the LDS Church teaches. It is way too easy to get to the actual
LDS teachings online to depend on someone else to give you their version...
especially those with political agenda's.I truly doubt that
Glenn Becks commentary is 99% in line with what the Church teaches, and every
politician, even committed LDS politicians are aligned with political parties.
(See the polar political opposites, Mike Lee and Harry Reid).
Who care if the SL Tribune is anti-Mormon or pro-Mormon. If it has a valuable
reader circle who would provide financial support for its existence. Why any
propaganda paper like SL Tribune needs to be protected? Just because its
anti-Mormon tone in general?
My problem with the Tribune is that it seemingly survives off of the anti-LDS
sentiment of many in SLC. Every day - and I mean EVERY DAY there is a new
article, front page, about the LDS Church. Doesn't matter if it is
negative or positive, before long there are hundreds and hundreds of posts, the
majority of which are mindless, hate-filled comments about anything and anyone
LDS.I am not advocating that the Tribune go away. These people have
a right to express their opinions - and I am sure it makes them feel good to do
so.I simply choose to not read the Tribune anymore. Nothing there
Sad sad society we live in that a Lawsuit like this is even possible. *FROWN*
@Bill McGee: "Must be protected"? Since when does a newspaper, or ANY
business have an inherent right to exist? A few years ago, I ran my own
business, loved doing it, and thought I was providing a service that my
customers valued. I wish more would have valued it because it eventually went
belly up for lack of revenue. No one protected my little business.If the
SLTribune wants to continue existing, it might want to find a formula that will
sell more papers. Even if you loathe Mormons and hate the Deseret News, they
found that formula and are one of the few print newspapers with increasing
The Tribune is Salt Lake's version of MSNBC: Non-stop bashing of anything
and anyone conservative. Celebration and glorification of anything and anyone
The Salt Lake Tribune is a critical voice in the intermountain West. The Deseret
News increasingly represents the editorial bias of its owner - the LDS Church.
Another voice is essential. The argument that the new contract is not designed
to hurt the Tribune seems disingenuous when one looks at the terms of the deal.
The Deseret News has wanted the Trib to go away since 1873, when it encroached
on the LDS Church's monopoly on regional news. It has been a vital
counterpoint to this region ever since, and must be protected.
RedWings,He actually stays pretty close to what I've heard many
church leaders say, and 99% of the church's membership as well. Also, being
that the DN is church-owned it can reasonably be expected that their opinion is
in line with the church's opinion. I do not believe the church would allow
the DN to create editorials that are contradictory to the church's
teachings.And I definitely don't believe that the writers at the DN would
even want to do that. So, listen to Glenn Beck, Mike Lee, Jason Chaffetz, and
read the Deseret News and you can get a pretty decent understanding of the
Shut down the Tribune? You say that like that is a bad thing.
Father of Four - I hope you are not saying that you get Church
teachings from listening to Glenn Beck? You do know that he has no affiliation
(other than being a member) and that he does not speak for the Church, right?
The new agreement is basically the old agreement in reverse. No one was crying
about the partnership when the Trib collected the lion's share of revenues
and profits. You know, back when it was profitable.
Whew!Just as equality for women, and passing of the SSM law, it appears to
be awfully difficult to get some Utah people to see that equality in journalism
is the way our country was meant to operate.It is so difficult to
understand why those who profess such distaste for the Tribune, cannot see
the"American way" of a free press. Why demand that the
This is good to see. I like the tribune. I read the trib every day to see what
is going on in the world and locally. And I read the Deseret News every day
(especially the political and opinion sections) to see what the LDS church is
teaching (I listen to Glenn Beck for the same reason).Theeng2, I
have seen really bad anti-LDS comments there too. But likewise I have seen very
mean-spirited and hateful comments here against anyone who isn't LDS. I
think both sides need to relax a little.
Yet no word on the Trib about this. I guess it just doesn't fit their
agenda, because we know they only report news that is fit to print.
I have two concerns.1st concern. Why the secrecy? If this had not
been leaked no one would have known about it?2nd concern. How many
million dollars was paid to the "hedge fund" which owns the Tribune and
did the Tribune see any of that money?Any one else
With the availability and the acceleration of the Internet and 24 hr. news cycle
I question how long any printed news paper will be able to survive financially.
I actually hope the The Tribune either goes out of business, or gets a major
overhaul. It's basically a LDS bashing site as it is right now. They say
they'll delete insensitive or hateful posts in the comments, but they never
do, and I've read some pretty bad stuff.
Wy save it? Everyone knows the Tribune is yellow Journalism at best and
propaganda on most days. For example, I walked by a print copy at work today and
the Trib had this headline about the LDS leaders statement on Women and
Priesthood and they totally misrepresented what the Church actually said. I
think even hardcore Tribbies know that the paper is not really news, but just
propaganda to lull those who want to justify their hate or etc. And they can
get that elsewhere now days, you know, RFM at exmo etc.