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Published: Tuesday, July 1 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Henderson
Orem, UT

At this point, it feels like some of you are just being stubborn for the fact of just being stubborn. I can only imagine that some of you would have felt right at home denying the world is round and that it revolved around the sun.

There literally isn't any reason why Germany should be producing 3x as much solar energy as we are. There's no excuse for China (of all countries) to be double what we invest into green technology.

Besides, it makes economic sense too. Develop this technology first, then sell it to the world. Why stay addicted to dirty fuel?

jsf
Centerville, UT

Oh snap. NOAA just quietly corrected data, 1936 was the hottest July on record not 2012.

Oh snap. 2013, the ice extent reached 19.51 million square kilometers, according to data posted on the National Snow and Ice Data Center Web site. That number bested record high levels set earlier this month and in 2012 (of 19.48 million square kilometers). Records date back to October 1978.

2014 The sea ice surrounding Antarctica, which, has been steadily increasing throughout the period of satellite measurement that began in 1979, has hit a new all-time record high for area coverage.

The new record anomaly for Southern Hemisphere sea ice, the ice encircling the southernmost continent, is 2.074 million square kilometers and was posted for the first time by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign’s The Cryosphere Today early Sunday morning.

45 days after AGW alarmist stated the ice sheet was collapsing in size.

The science is settled?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@Frozen Fractals,
It could have been only 2 days this month (I thought I heard this year). I wasn't fully listening at the time but thought that was an interesting factoid. If it was just for the month of June... then not really all that interesting. The way Eubank was acting I thought it was a big deal.

========

@Darrel,

It has shifted from a scientific debate to a political debate. I'm not sure why. IMO there are two separate but related issues. The scientific angle, and the political angle.

Even if it's 100% scientifically proven fact... There would still be a political angle to be concerned about. I don't want us turning our liberty over to some group of global elites who determine what we can/can't do in America, or in Utah.

People have been trying to do that for a long time using various different excuses for why they think it's better for us to give up local control and let some global governance group make decisions for us (and promise there would be absolutely no corruption involved).

It would be the FIRST Government with no corruption.

FreedomFighter41
Provo, UT

Oklahoma went from having 2 earthquakes per year to now 230.

What changed?

Fracking.

Why are we allowing this type of destruction? Simple, greed.

In the 1930s, greed led to the Dust Bowl. Many people denied that the farmers had anything to do with the Dust Bowl. They believed it just... Happened!

Thankfully, progressives embraced science, found that we were definitely the cause, and found scientific solutions. Had conservatives had their way, the midwest would still be buried in dirt.

Likewise, it's way past time to give global warming deniers any attention. Time to move on with or without them.

Fracking should be illegal, expanded drilling should be stopped, and we should all be investing into green technology.

Sorry repubs, but you lost this one.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Here is why the earth is now cooling, not warming. The number of sunspots declined substantially in the last 11 year cycle, after flattening out over the previous 20 years. But in the current cycle, sunspot activity has collapsed. NASA’s Science News report for January 8, 2013 states,“Indeed, the sun could be on the threshold of a mini-Maunder event right now. Ongoing Solar Cycle 24 [the current short term 11 year cycle] is the weakest in more than 50 years. Moreover, there is (controversial) evidence of a long-term weakening trend in the magnetic field strength of sunspots. Matt Penn and William Livingston of the National Solar Observatory predict that by the time Solar Cycle 25 arrives, magnetic fields on the sun will be so weak that few if any sunspots will be formed. Independent lines of research involving helioseismology and surface polar fields tend to support their conclusion.”
It was solar activity all along, not C02!

Kora
Cedar Hills, UT

I would like someone to explain this: If Al Gore and the other proponents of man-made global warming actually believe what they say, why do they fly in private jets and use high energy use vehicles like SUVs and large sedans? If they truly believe in man caused global warming, why would they live in large houses with high energy bills?
Al Gore's House in Tennessee uses more energy in 1-month than the average American home in 1-year. Plus the amount of resources to build his mansion. If he really believed in man caused global warming would he live like that?

Could it be many of these advocates are making tons of money off their crusades? Al Gore made a lot of money off of selling Carbon offsets as well as other anti-carbon concerns. This same Al Gore made millions selling his TV network to Qatar which is essentially big oil, while saying there is no such thing as ethical oil, unless he can make millions from them.

By some estimates, Al Gore's environmental and liberal advocacy has made him richer than Mitt Romney. Seems a large financial incentive to push the ideology.

Frozen Fractals
Salt Lake City, UT

@jsf
" NOAA just quietly corrected data, 1936 was the hottest July on record not 2012."

For the US (that was the Dust Bowl), not globally.

"2013, the ice extent reached 19.51 million square kilometers, according to data posted on the National Snow and Ice Data Center Web site. "

2013 was still 7th lowest ice extent on record (and 3rd or 4th lowest for volume).

You got the Antarctic sea ice one right though that's largely a result of increased wind stress rather than any cooling.

"45 days after AGW alarmist stated the ice sheet was collapsing in size."

That's land ice, and it is collapsing in size.

@2bits
"It could have been only 2 days this month"

There were 19 above average days in June. Maybe Eubank was talking about average number of 100+ degree days in June or July (that might be a 2 type number, so far we've had 0 and we're forecasted to maybe get one of those on Thursday so that might be relevant).

airnaut
Everett, 00

@jsf
Centerville, UT

Oh snap.
From the NOAA website --
"Global Summary Information - May 2014
May global temperature reaches record high."

...but of course, you mention the "s-e-c-r-e-t" corrected data,
from what? The Drudge Report? TheInsider? Some other "Conspiracy Theory" website?

A couple other commentors here mentioned the political spin to this.

I concur

Why is it these very same Global Warming deniers,
are also birthers,
Obama is a secret Muslim,
insist Saddam Husein had WMDs,
Mexicans are silently invading America to recapture it,
Flouride in the water is Government mind control,
the moon landings were fake,
and the 2nd shooter of JFK.

???

uncommonsense
CENTERVILLE, UT

I find it interesting that while the Arctic Ice Pack is shrinking, though it hasn't disappeared as was predicted. The Antarctic Ice is at record levels. All time record levels. This probably has more to do with shifting ocean currents than any perceived CO2 rise. I have no doubt that the climate is changing. It always does. 20 years from now scientists will look back and wonder how foolish we were to think that higher CO2 levels had any cause other than to feed the plants.
Too many confuse AGCC with pollution, ie. dirty water and particulates in the air.
Changes in the magnetics, solar flares and wind, ocean currents and wind currents have much more to do with our climate than the alarmists want to acknowlege.

HaHaHaHa
Othello, WA

The debate is over! The data is in! NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, PBS and NPR all think BHO is the best president ever and that is why they worship him. After all unemployment improved a few months ago. Never mind all the lies, never mind his inept handling of foreign affairs and terrorism. Never mind his inability to create policy that improves the economy. The list goes on and on.
Oh sorry, I picked up on the wrong topic. Listed the right advocates for he wrong agenda. Funny how "proof" and evidence works!

I will agree with the letter writer on one thing. If you honestly believes in this cause, then feel free to promote promote your agenda, and start doing all the items on your list. Those are things that you believe will make a difference, and it doesn't impose your beliefs on me. This is exactly what all greenies should be doing. Put their actions where their mouth is. Lead by example, not by restriction of freedom.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@No One Of Consequence – “When the… efforts to end global warming have instead destroyed the economic engine…”

Except these debates have nothing to do with each other. Whether climate change is happening is a (largely settled) scientific debate. What to do about it is a political debate.

I can respect those who follow the science in the first case, even while we disagree politically on how to address it in the second.

What I have no respect for are those who disparage the science as an expedient means of ignoring the political, and I have yet to come across an intellectually honest skeptic.

[See Dr. David Brin’s paper on how to tell the difference]

Instead (as fully on display on this forum every time a climate change article is published) we have people who have made up their minds already (for political reasons – i.e., ‘cause Rush said so) and then lie, distort, or cherry pick the facts to support their view.

That they do this without ever considering that scientists have already asked and answered their objections should be a source of much embarrassment… but rarely is.

Frozen Fractals
Salt Lake City, UT

@Mountanman
"It was solar activity all along, not C02!"

The current weakest solar cycle in a century is paired with a pause in warming that has stuck at warmest decade in modern record levels. So what it looks more like is that a negative natural effect (the weak solar cycle) is being paired with a positive effect (AGW) and that's why we have this 15 year pause going on. If it were solar activity all along we'd have peaked in temperatures in the 70s and have declined somewhat since then since that's what solar irradiance has been doing. Instead we rose dramatically for 20 more years (1980-2000) and have paused at those elevated levels at the end of the century.

jsf
Centerville, UT

The point is NOAA had manipulated the data for a cause. Oh yea that's right the Koch brothers bought the NOAA it couldn't be true.

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

@Mountanman

I must admit that I am no expert in Solar activity, although astronomy has always been a strong, strong passion of mine.

That being said, sunspots are substantially cooler than other areas of the Sun. Wouldn't less sunspots = hotter sun = hotter Earth?

I could be wrong on that case, I would be the first to admit it if I am shown otherwise, but your logic seems a little...awkward at face value.

micawber
Centerville, UT

@Mountanman,

I think you paint with too broad a brush. When you say "they were so alarmed about" I don't know what you mean. Is everyone who believes in anthropogenic climate change alarmed about it, in your opinion, and therefore an alarmist? The way you use the word alarmist sounds derogatory, but perhaps you don't mean it to. Can you explain, please?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@ Micawber: a·larm·ist [ ə láarmist ]
1.somebody spreading fear: somebody who spreads unnecessary fear or warnings of danger.
2.somebody easily scared: somebody who becomes afraid easily.

In my opinion the term fits very well. Others disagree, obviously.

If the earth continues to cool due to reduction of solar activity as forecasted, we will then know it wasn't C02 after all, right? Thus those who were wrong were alarmists, right? Have a great day!

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "The Real Maverick" since when was science settled by a vote?

Scientists once told us that Margarine was good. They once said smoking was good. They once said that eugenics was a great idea. Eggs were bad, then good, then bad again, and are now good. Scientists had a consensus that no aircraft could fly faster than the speed of sound.

Luckily those of us that understand science know that it is a matter of getting good data and developing a mathematical model to explain the observations. We don't have good data, nor do we have a valid model. NASA has been caught several times adjusting the data to make temperatures appear higher. The NOAA has shown us that the models are wrong because the models said that 15 years or more without warming was impossible, yet we are now on year 17 with no warming. All of the data is built on interpolated data prior to 1979, so even the data is not accurate.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Darrel" if you really like astronomy so much, here is something to think about.

According to NASA there are other bodies in the solar system that have been warming at the same time the earth has been warming.

Mars has been experiencing global warming, along with the moon Triton, Pluto, and Jupiter. How can those planets be warming at the same time Earth is if man-made CO2 is the driver?

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

@RedShirt

Very interesting, thank you for the tips. I did some research:

Mars has a very thin atmosphere, and as such it is much more susceptible to weather change than Earth. The idea that Mars is warming is from two pictures taken 22 years apart of the polar caps. Like Earth, Mars has weather, and no trend can be shown from two photos 22 years apart.

Pluto is very hard to show much data. We have only know about its existence for only a third of one of its orbits. Its orbit is highly eccentric, and will have great fluctuations in temperature. We have never sent a spacecraft there either. The first is due to arrive next year, so it is difficult to record ANY change in temperature.

From what I understand, Jupiter's rise is based solely on computer models with no increase detected directly.

Triton, couldn't really find anything on. But with Saturn having orbits and seasons like Earth, I would expect Triton to have changes in temperature as it closer and further from the Sun.

Coming out of the sunspot cycle, I would expect some warming to happen throughout the solar system.

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

@RedShirt

I mistakenly called Triton a moon of Saturn, not Uranus. My apologies.

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