Jesus always told his followers to "keep the commandments". Anyone
familiar with the Old Testament knew what those were. Love God. Honor parents.
Men were to "Leave a father and mother and cleave unto your wife".
There has never, ever been any exception to create any kind of understanding
that anything other than a man/wife union was within "keeping the
commandments". So, I say to you all, follow Jesus and search his words. He
will give you the strength and the power to keep his commandments if you truly
love him with all your heart.
Janet Boynes is in business as an incorporated "religion" and is free to
take in donations without ANY oversight.As a "religion", she
is free to spout the most outrageous concepts and anyone who dares speak out, is
said to be waging a war on religion.
Living by the beach is a lifestyle. Riding motorcycles on the weekends is a
lifestyle. Backpacking and hiking frequently is a lifestyle. Being LGBT is not
a lifestyle anymore than being attracted to the opposite sex is a lifestyle.
Who you are attracted to and who you love is the essence of who you are -- not a
lifestyle. My son is gay. He has never been abused. He is not broken any more
than his 4 straight siblings are. He's just gay and always has been.
Science and evidence doesn't support this woman's position. She is a
complete outlier. If you are a parent of a LGBT child stop reading and
believing this crap and get on with accepting and loving your child. Don't
waste your time or emotions and your precious influence on your child on this
failed, discredited approach. Love is the only real tool you have at your
disposal in understanding your child. Get on with loving and accepting if you
want to have any kind of meaningful relationship.
It is rather unbelievable (of not irresponsible) for DN would publish an
editorial like this. Most individuals with just a modicum of
critical thinking skills can see right through this article. At
least is was published in the Opinion section.
This is a cruel, misguided and dangerous editorial. Being "homosexual"
is not a "lifestyle" just as being Chinese is not a lifestyle.The
antediluvian attitudes expressed in this piece and the forum provided such
thinking by this paper is discouraging. While many ill informed individuals
build their view of gay people on the few caricatures that dominate the culture
let me assure you, our lives are spent like yours is. We work hard,we hope for
good futures, we fret at sitting in traffic, we celebrate and laugh when given
the chance, we screw up royally and often and we cry when life is hard. Why is
it so easy for some people who have not taken the time to get to know us to
consign us to the stockade. Why do people who have no idea what they are talking
about find it so easy to demand that gay people unravel their very souls to meet
the bizzare expectations of others? I could no more change the part of me that
finds sensual beauty in my own sex than I could grow wings and fly to Mars.
Thank goodness this insanity is near its end.
To see comments that "thousands have changed their orientation" is an
outright dishonest representation. There are people who have changed their
behavior, but very few, if any that have changed their orientation. There are
no examples of this and this assumption is not correct. This op-ed was not a
very good representation of the troubles that young people have. This type of
presentation has lead to many suicides.I work in the health care
field and to say these changes have occurred is not honest. This brings about
false hope and results in failure when people realize they can not change. The
suicide rate among young gay teenagers is sky high.
I think it's important to point out that Janet Boynes is not declaring her
experience as the "cause" of homosexuality. She is acknowledging that
the reasons she was drawn to that lifestyle were not healthy, that may or may
not be true for others who experience homosexual attraction.We know
very little about how our sexuality is developed, whether it's homo or
hetero. Simon Levy's 1991 study finding differences in the brains of gay
men which "supported" that sexual orientation is inherent has been
discounted (William Byne, Stuart Tobet, and associates, "The Interstitial
Nuclei of the Human Anterior Hypothalamus: An Investigation of Variation with
Sex, Sexual Orientation, and HIV Status," Hormones and Behavior, 40:86-92,
2001). We don't know if people are just "born that way." Let us be as wary of silencing dissenting opinions as we are of
socially-constructed labels.We also should be careful that we
don't limit free choice by telling people that they are born a certain way
and cannot change... Isn't that the foundation of all socially constructed
Maudine states: "Mental health professions no longer classify same-sex
attraction or homosexuality as disorders because science and research have shown
they are not."Please provide references to these scientific
studies.On the other hand, it is well documented that homosexuality
was removed from the DSM in 1973 due to political pressure. No scientific
evidence was provided and those who promoted its removal frankly admitted this.
I appreciated Deseret News sharing this open editorial by Janet Boynes. Thank
you! We all have a story, and she has thoughtfully shared hers. It's sad
that she is criticized for trying to help others. Why attack a person for
his/her opinions, or a newspaper for printing them as an open editorial? As for
the topic, many of those who have commented seem to have done so with the
attitude of "knowing the truth." The bottom-line truth is that
homosexuality is not immutable. There are thousands of former homosexuals. Many
have chosen to seek help and make major changes from a predominantly homosexual
orientation to a predominantly heterosexual orientation. Homosexuality is not a
civil right. And taking this issue further to the same-sex marriage issue,
history and biology have clearly proven that children need a mother and a
I appreciate Janet Boynes perspective and agree that those who desire to leave
the homosexual lifestyle can be helped. We should support them in their choice,
and of course love them as we should all people no matter what their choice.
There is much evidence and on going research that is being ignored today because
people think they "know".
buffy says:"If you don't want to be free from sexual
addiction, or attraction, you have that right."Buffy, please
tell me if your loving, committed, relationship with your own spouse is a
"sexual addiction". Do you want to be free, yourself, from your
attraction to the opposite gender? If not, why do you think we would?
Janet Boynes' message is about personal freedom, and the right to choose
it. If you don't want to be free from sexual addiction, or attraction, you
have that right. Obviously people have overcome such tendencies, and people who
say it can't be done are making that assertion based on their own limited
experience. It's most unsettling that those who promote tolerance are
willing to use the force of law to silence anyone who disagrees with them.
Just came from hearing Janet Boynes speak at the American Leadership Fund event.
She was electrifying, inspirational and tremendously hopeful. She said her
former lesbian lifestyle was her demise that through the love and grace of God
became her voice. Her message was powerful and defies what many say is
impossible to do -- leaving homosexuality and being "called out" of
darkness into God's wonderful light as she put it. She truly is teaching
-- those who have eyes to see and ears to hear and hearts that yearn to
understand -- that God willingly forgives sin when we confess it to him. Her
courage and honesty in sharing her story, and others like her, will change the
world. She is bold and fearless in the face of death threats and harassment.
She is a modern day hero and profound voice for redemption and healing. Thank
God for women like her...
I was impressed with the message of Peace, goodwill and love that Janet gave us
at the gathering tonight at the Larry Miller complex. She encouraged us all to
be more loving to all of God's children. We need to be reminded often to
express more love toward one another regardless of our belief. Thank you Janet,
I am anxious to read your book. It was your countenance of love that impressed
me. We are beloved children of God and he loves us as we strive enlarge our
capacity to love.
As an attendee at the SLCC event Thursday night in which this author spoke, I
found her statements credible and prompted by love of God and her fellow man.
As a retired surgeon, I have some basis on which to conclude that human
behaviors involve two steps, at least: 1. The attraction towards a particular
behavior, and, 2. The choice one makes regarding one's actions relative to
that attraction. The attraction may not be chosen, but the action inevitably
is. There are countless individuals who, choose to let their souls rule their
bodies rather than the other way around. I respectfully disagree with any who
say that human behavioral characteristics are immutable. My best wishes to
those to disagree with me and I genuinely hope for the day when all sides will
be heard without bullying of any sort aimed at silencing the others. Peace.
@gmlewis – “So far, that has been the pattern for every gay person I
have known for the last 50 years.”How many is that exactly?And putting aside the fact this assertion is a logical fallacy (e.g.,
Jill has red hair, Jill is a girl, therefore all girls have red hair), I wonder
how many gay people have engaged in self-destructive behavior (assuming they do
so at a higher rate than the population at large) because they live in a society
that makes them feel alienated, 2nd class, inferior, damaged, and even sinful
just because of who they are.I don’t know… if people
were constantly making me feel like a freak I’d probably want to get
loaded too. Beats going postal…
I'm not LDS but I stand with Mormon Prophet Monson and Pope Francis on this
tough issue.Its nice to hear directly from someone who did change.
Yes, its possible. And its a worthy goal for all who struggle with
this tough issue.Good luck to all of them!
'So far, that has been the pattern (drug use) for every gay person I have
known for the last 50 years.' Then you need to know more gay
people. How about the 14,000 who were discharged from the US
military under 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'? Are you going to
make the assumption they are all drug users because of your limited experience?
FYI, they don't allow drug us when you are serving in the US military. At
least not when I served in South Korea. You don't see me
claiming that anyone who is LDS promotes discrimination. Why the
sweeping generalization? We should be better than this, as
@Maudine - "This editorial not only goes against science and research, it
goes against the official stance of the LDS Church."I am unaware
that the LDS Church teaches that homosexuality is permanently unchangeable.
What the leaders have said is that it might not be a choice.By the
way, I'm sure I am going to incite a frenzy with this question, but I
wonder how many people who self-identify now as gay had previously engaged in
drug abuse with marijuana, LSD, etc.? So far, that has been the pattern for
every gay person I have known for the last 50 years.
@The BalloonaticI have met several hundred LGBT people--probably 99% of
them grew up LDS. Would it bother you if I extrapolated that the LDS church
makes people have SSA?Child abuse is tragic. I'm sorry for your
friends. You carefully framed your statement saying abuse is a possible
influence and may apply to some people and you have limited data. Those are all
critical observations that Janet doesn't make. She asserts that SSA is
caused by childhood trauma and can be completely overcome by therapy. She claims
that there is a conspiracy to hide this "truth." She makes that
assertion based on her limited experience without any other evidence. She runs a
ministry to convert gay people to straight that has exactly zero success stories
except her own.I have two loving parents, six happily married siblings, no
history of mental health problems, no abuse of any kind in my life, happy
childhood with lots of friends, no addictions. Can you believe me when I say
that abuse did not make me gay and that I can be completely happy and faithful
in the church even while I accept that my SSA will not go away?
This article makes me very sad. As a person who went through Aversion Therapy
years ago at BYU, I personally know of the torture of a therapy that does not
work. Science and LDS doctrine is against this idea that change is possible.
Let's not bring up events of our shameful past with a misguided opinion
like this. Lets promote love instead of abuse.
Janet is telling her story and she has the right to do so. The homosexuals that
I know (which admittedly are few), actually were abused in some way as children.
Even Ellen DeGeneres was abused as a child. It has happened. I'm not
saying that all homosexuals were abuses, but at least some have, therefore it is
a possible influence. A friend of mine shared that on her mission, she shared
the Gospel message to a lesbian couple. They felt the spirit and the both said
that the way they were living was wrong. They wanted to change. It happens.
We're all broken and have our own struggles. I have high functioning
autism and am learning to deal with it. Everyone's got something, and we
can all be better, but at the same time know that God loves no matter what.
Self improvement and love is what life is about.
'Psychologists nix gay-to-straight therapy' - AP - 08/05/09'The American Psychological Association declared Wednesday...(sic) No
solid evidence exists that such change (to orientation) is likely, says the
report, and some research suggests that efforts to produce change could be
harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.''UK
mental health bodies UNITE to CONDEMN gay 'cure' therapy' -
02-28-14 'The groups have condemned the practice known as
‘conversion therapy’, as requested by the Department of Health, to
say it has potential to cause HARM and are more likely to be based on religion
rather than on an informed understanding of sexual orientation.''Exodus International Prez Alan Chambers Declares: There is 'NO
CURE' for homosexuality' – By Dan Avery – 07/09/12 ' He (Alan Chambers) said that virtually every
“ex-gay” he has ever met STILL harbors homosexual cravings' I wonder why these studies and comments were denied previously? Suppression of information does not 'support' ones claims. It
merely tries to deny the facts. Sure, change is possible. I have better odds of getting super powers after being struck by lightning.
The only thing attempts to change orientation factually do, is
@SeekerOfTruth;Being gay and accepting it is not harmful to anyone.
Nor is it harmful to society.Trying to live the "straight"
lifestyle was extremely damaging to me though. I was ready to commit suicide as
a result. Once I finally accepted that I am gay, I can't change it, and it
isn't the "evil thing" I'd been raised to believe it was, my
life turned around. I found a wonderful partner and couldn't possibly be
more happy than I am - 15 years in a loving, committed relationship.Please understand and stop denigrating our lives. You may not realize it, but
your comments that being gay is harmful are denigrating to us LGBT citizens.
"others I know found far more healing than I and actually overcame severe
homosexual childhood abuse and are now happily married to the opposite
gender."I'm sorry but what does that mean? Severe
homosexual childhood abuse? Were they abused by someone of the same gender, and
if so how would that make them attracted to the same gender? It just
doesn't make any sense. Further I don't see anyone here
saying that if you are attracted to someone of the same gender that you need to
live in a certain way. Maybe you've experienced that in your life but you
haven't read it here from the "liberals".In fact your
point that individuals should decide their own fate is exactly the
"liberal" point. A person has a right to decide for themselves whom
they will marry. The state doesn't get to decide that for them.
I am always fascinated by the liberal posters on this site who talk of tolerance
and choice - but display absolutely no tolerance for anyone else's
choice.I am homosexual, I tried reparative therapy, I wasn't cured,
but I did change (for the better as far as I am concerned). Like most things in
life, some people I know did not view it positively, while others I know found
far more healing than I and actually overcame severe homosexual childhood abuse
and are now happily married to the opposite gender. That's the funny
thing about "choice": the individual should decide; not a bunch of
patronizing fashionably intolerant politically correct bullies who censor
anything they don't approve simply because it doesn't fit into their
narrow view of the world: ironically displaying a fun house mirror image on
steroids of virtual everything they claim to despise.As an
"open-minded" homosexual (as opposed to a fundamentalist gay) I find
that "tolerant people" are a far greater threat to my personal happiness
than any discussion of ex-gays ever was.
Too many people are under the impression that all people with SSA are born that
way. Studies of identical twins where the twin of someone who self identifies as
SSA show that only about 5% of the siblings are also SSA. Genetics therefore
cannot by itself explain all SSA situations. There is definite environmental
influence in play here. Studies have also found that SSA experience child sex
abuse at 5 times the rate of heteros. Some researchers believe there may be a
correlation here though it does not apply to all people with SSA. Despite
championing tolerance and diversity, there is an element of the LGBT community
who do not tolerate or accept the diversity of people with SSA who chose not to
follow a lifestyle that is often permissive and dangerous to one's health.
in regards to Mike R earlier this afternoonI can't help but
notice these eternal laws you point out are kinda slanted to 1 religion. Philosophy: Questions that cannot be answered. Religion: Answers that
cannot be questioned. - AnonThe easy confidence with which I know
another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.
- Mark TwainReligion is like a pair of shoes.....Find one that fits
for you, but don't make me wear your shoes. - George Carlin
to Mike RichardsIsn't funny how we have to teach children about
religion. Then, be on our best behavior so they did pickup on our racism,
sexism, or any other demographic biases?
@ Mike RichardsBanks too big to fail, endless wars, unregulated Wall
Street, greedy bosses, corrupt judges who rule that bribery is free speech, and
politicians who lower our credit rating and shut down our government will
destroy our society.
Tiago, I am not claiming that people struggling with SSA can change to be
straight by trying harder. I am sorry you are frustrated that I compare your
struggle to genetic predispositions to hurt people or addictions. These were
extreme examples to make a point. My point is that we all have natural man
tendencies that, if we give into them, can be harmful to the well-being of
ourselves and others. Some of those tendencies are less harmful and some more
harmful. My other point is that just because we are born with genetic
predispositions does not justify us giving in to those urges if they are
harmful. I believe my extreme examples make clear why that would be a bad idea.
The issue is learning to control our natural man tendencies. I have my own
natural man challenges and you have yours. It sounds like you are doing a great
job with yours.
Judging from the comments on this board, it is clear that the Deseret News needs
to do a lot more research on those they turn their editorial page over to.
Running a piece written by this particular author is surprising to say to the
@Seeker of TruthYes, Ms. Boynes had some serious problems. Her book
explains that her life was full of trauma and resulted in years of poor choices
including having multiple and sometimes simultaneous relationships with both men
and women, doing and selling drugs, and committing other crimes. She found tools
and support in her Evangelical church that helped her cope and live a more
stable life. That is a nice story and one we can all celebrate.The problem
is that she takes her experience and assumes things that are not true--such as
saying childhood/family trauma causes SSA and that SSA people can change to
straight with faith or something (not clear what the process is).Compare
that to my experience, one shared by many of my friends: I have been active in
the LDS church my whole life, never broke the law of chastity or word of wisdom,
highly religious and faithful, have good self control. But I'm still gay. I
deal with it. But I get really frustrated when people tell me I could be
straight if I just tried harder or compare my romantic attractions to wanting to
hurt people or addictions.
Change is possible. Yes it is. And this person is proof. Nice to hear directly
from someone who struggled with this tough adversity.Keep up the
Let us say that someone is born with a genetic predisposition to become
irrationally angry to the point of harming others, or to be addicted to alcohol
or gambling. While I agree that shock therapy will do no good to get rid of
their natural tendencies, would you not agree that such people should receive
counseling to develop coping techniques and behavioral modification strategies
to avoid behaviors that are harmful to themselves, to those they love, and to
society in general? I would hope your answer would be yes. So the real question
is if homosexual behavior fits into such a category? For my part I believe that
it is harmful to society in general, and to the happiness of the individual in
specific. But it doesn't really matter what I believe. The experiences of
each actively homosexual person's life will bear out the truth one way or
the other. That being said, I also believe that sexual orientation
is such a small part of a person. They are so much more precious and valuable
than that small part of their personality.
@MikeRichards: According to MY religion, you are teaching your own children
great carelessness towards God. I wouldn't claim the damage you are doing
is irreversible, except perhaps to your family's future cohesiveness.
Authoritarian certitude and coercion is not a great basis for a child-parent
relationship.One of the things I love about my own religion is that
many parents do not induct their children into membership, but respect them to
make that decision later on their own. It means so much more to those who seek
"PS - I view your beliefs the same way you view Muslim’s."And I believe that for ALL of them, it is speculation based on what has
been claimed or taught by a man.What makes the prophet Mohammad any
different than any other prophet? It all depends on who you believe and what
personal confirmation that you think that you have received.Lots of
folks claim to have personal knowledge that their religion or teachings or
prophet or .... are the correct one. And they are almost always in direct
conflict with one another.If there were 100 religions, either 100
are either wrong or lacking, or 99 are.No matter your religion, the
odds are not in your favor.
@2 bits – “But you have to be open to what he has caused to be
written (anciently and modernly)”But that’s just
it… so much of what “he has caused to be written” is
contradictory (in addition to the two already mentioned, I could provide a
laundry list from the Bible alone).And this doesn’t even begin
to address other religions. Understand that all the reasons you believe as you
do are the same reasons Muslims believe as they do (inspired sacred book filled
with miracles and “moral” teachings, words of a Prophet, etc., etc.,
etc…) and yet I think it’s fair to say (correct me if wrong) that
you do not find any of their reasons compelling to believe in Islam.Further, you are utterly convinced that what God has told ~13 million
followers is truth and what he has told ~1.6 billion followers is nonsense.People are free to believe what they want, but when they start making a
lot of “I know…” type comments, you should not be surprised at
some pushback.PS - I view your beliefs the same way you view
The family is the most important unit of society. When a "family"
teaches children that it is better to change religions instead of changing
actions, that "family" has done irreversible harm to the child. There
are eternal laws that are absolute. No matter what mankind thinks about those
eternal laws, no one can change them. Sexual purity before marriage is an
eternal law. People break themselves when they break that law. Marriage
between a man and a woman is an eternal law. People break themselves when they
break that law. No person who teaches a child carelessness towards God can
expect God to look the other way. God will require a full accounting and full
repentance. Harming a child by teaching false religious concepts will destroy
society. Great harm will be done. Great harm!
I don't believe that people, including the author, 'choose' to be
gay. After all, she tried to choose it and it didn't work for her. As for
religion, the best it can do is what it always does. Make things worse.
@Tyler DRe: @2 bits – “WE should be trying to find out
what he expects… If we only knew what was in his mind in the first
place… do you know"?I think I know what he wants.
It's no big mystery. He has a goal, and he has expressed it in no
uncertain terms. That's why he gave us Prophets, Scriptures, Prayer,
Revelation. He is NOT hiding his will from us by any stretch... But we need to
humbly and sincerely seek to find out what his will is... not ignore his
instructions to us from Adam to today, and insist he accept our modern
sophisticated ways...IMO God is very open about his goal and his
expectations. But you have to be open to what he has caused to be written
(anciently and modernly) and what he is currently saying through his Prophet.
Instead of us telling him what HE must believe.When people with our
limited understanding of eternal things telling him what he must accept, and
what he must change in order to make us happy... you are on the wrong track.
Besides the 10th circuit appeal, Indiana's same-sex marriage ban was also
struck down.And apparently, Gov. Herbert's office is reviewing
the 10th circuit decision and "whether" they will appeal."Whether" is a very interesting word.
Just in from the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals: Utah's ban on gay marriage
is unconstitutional.How soon til these three judges are labeled
"activist"?How much good could have been accomplished if the
state had not blown so much money on a losing cause? There was NO evidence that
this "child centric" argument would work, and yet the state spent $200K
on a lawyer who argued it.
The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals just upheld Judge Shelby's decision. They
reviewed the evidence and the state's case and were not convinced that
there was any rational basis for excluding gay people from marriage.Meanwhile, the Deseret News publishes this article today which is the most
backwards argument against SSM I have seen on these pages. If your argument
against SSM is that being gay is a choice and can be changed you will inevitably
fail to convince anyone who gives it any serious consideration. For most gay
people, feeling attracted to their own sex is as natural and fixed as a straight
person's attraction to the opposite sex. People can repress feelings and
change behavior but they cannot change fundamental sexual orientation.I cannot understand why the Deseret News published this editorial. Deception
and lies don't help anybody.
@2 bits – “WE should be trying to find out what he
expects…”If we only knew what was in his mind in the
first place… do you know?I mean we hear a lot from the mouths
of men, and since so much of what we hear is contradictory I don’t see how
we can make sense of any of it.Heck, even his sacred books are all
over the place – killing is bad - killing Amalekites, not so bad. Slavery
(when Egyptians are doing it to Israelites) is bad - slavery (when Israelites
are doing it to everyone else), not so bad.But I guess those are
just examples of God changing his mind… sure doesn’t make it any
easier on us to discern what he wants though.I think Homer Simpson
understood this best when he said – “"What if we picked the
wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder."
@ MaudineThank you for the information on sexual dysphoria. Very
helpful in this context and generally.
God CAN change... that is obvious. But I think SOME get the relationship
backwards. We are not here to change HIM... HE is here to change US.We should not be constantly trying to change God's mind... and get him to
be more like us. WE should be trying to find out what he expects, and be more
like him... IMO
It is articles like these that make me lose confidence in news networks. In what
way was this beneficial? An article purporting that because she was able to
change, everyone can? What about the hundreds of testimonies and dozens of
articles displaying the contrary?Poor editorial choice. If the
article actually talked about the complexities of the issue and had a more
substantial basis, it would have been more appropriate. But this is weak.
Janet Boynes claims that there are thousands of people who have gone through
this "therapy" successfully and yet seems to be unable to produce many
of these success stories. The fact is, she makes her living from these poor
people who are unable to accept themselves.
As a RM and active LDS, I think we're spending far too much time and focus
on homosexuality.There are far other issues that we should focus on.
Debt, greed, and dirty politics. Nationally, look at what's happening in DC
and Wall Street. Banks to big to fail (and then did) hurt more people than
homosexuality ever did. The dirty money in politics is hurting people too. Just
look locally at what payday loan sharks, Swallow, and Shurtleff have done. They
hurt far more people than homosexuals have.
@ DesNews: Really? You print an entire editorial based on speculation about
what makes people gay and their ability to change but you refuse my comment that
draws a realistic, scientific conclusion based on information presented in the
editorial by the author herself?If I am not allowed to challenge her
assumptions about others, based on information she provides, she should not be
able to use your paper as a source to publicize those assumptions.Sexual dysphoria is a confusion about sexuality usually caused by adverse
childhood experiences including child sexual abuse. Not all survivors of abuse
suffer from this condition. Sexual dysphoria can be overcome with effort.Same-sex attraction or homosexuality is not caused by adverse childhood
experiences, although, just as some straight children are abused by perpetrators
of either gender, so too are some homosexual children. Abuse, however, does not
cause homosexuality and many homosexual individuals have never experienced child
sexual abuse.This author is taking her personal experiences and
generalizing them to others. Such behavior is very seldom helpful and in this
case can be extremely harmful.
The printing of this opinion piece is irresponsible. That is all I have to say.
When did religion become so myopically obsessed with only what occur between the
navel and the kneecaps?I’ve been following the comments here
for quite a while and rarely do I hear any ethical messages from my pious
friends on the right that does not involve sex. Since Jesus rarely mentions it
(and never mentions homosexuality), it makes one wonder if my friends on the
right are truly following the founder of their religion.It would be
a refreshing change to hear a bit more about the Sermon on the Mount and a whole
lot less about “mounting” in general.
The moral of this story is lets save being saved for "being saved"?
This article is disheartening. There are going to be parents with children who
are coming out as gay, a very difficult process, who will read this article and
then start pushing the pseudoscience of ex-gay "therapy" on their kids.
This will make an already challenging time of life even harder. It's rare
to read a newspaper article and know that it is going to cause harm to people in
the very near future. The DNews should be ashamed of itself for printing this
I'm going to draw a line between sexual behavior and sexual orientation.
From my experience sexual orientation is pretty much a set thing. You are
attracted to whom you are attracted. Most of the time it's the opposite
sex, sometimes it's the same sex, and some times it's both.Sexual behavior however is a much more complicated issues and shouldn't
be conflated like I think the writer does with orientation. There
are many reasons for a persons sexual behavior, some healthy and natural, some
the result of traumas and experiences in life, and I'm sure some from
inherent physical and mental abnormalities. Herein lies the danger of expanding
our own experiences to the rest of the world, as the writer does. Don't
know the facts but the reasons for her sexual behavior are possibly many and
varied but aren't the same thing as her orientation. They may coincide
(bisexual) or they she may have simply been acting out the dysfunctions of her
life in a sexual manner.
Gay conversion therapy, like forcing the assimilation of the American Indians
into boarding schools, and Jim Crow laws is horribly misguided. Ultimately, it
too will fail and our children and grandchildren will look down at us in horror
for these harmful practices we performed.
Overstatement to the point of untruthfulness is no virtue. Neither CA nor NJ
have banned the discredited "conversion therapy." They've only
banned licensed mental health professionals from practicing it on minors.
Pastoral counselors, ministers, priests, etc., are still able to provide the
"treatment" to persons of any age.All the major mental
health associations have determined that subjecting minors to this treatment is
abusive, traumatic, likely to induce suicide and have urged states to ban it.
Adults are still free to seek and receive such treatment from licensed
practitioners, although it seems little more than a scam. Surveys show results
of such treatment are far less than claimed.Same-sex marriage is the
biggest danger to "conservative" religion. If every child knows the
hope that they can grow up to marry their own sweetheart, with their happy
family and friends in attendance, how will anyone convince gays into believing
God hates them as they are? And, there's this conflict of interest: At
least one Church is highly dependent upon finding or convincing enough men to
forswear sex in order to fill their celibate priesthood.
This is a dangerous editorial and I am disappointed to see it published in this
paper. The LDS church's position on same-sex attraction can be found on its
website mormonsandgays.org. That website states that SSA is a complex reality.
It states that we do not know the cause of SSA and that, for many people, it
will persist for their entire lives.The LDS church teaches the law of
chastity which applies to all members, no matter their sexual orientation or
individual circumstances. Do we expect God to take away autism or clinical
depression or red hair or any other condition of mortality that might make life
more difficult? Why do we insist that he take away SSA? We believe in the power
of the Atonement and the God can heal all wounds, but we don't determine
His will.Ms. Boynes is free to tell her story, but this editorial is not
the full story. For anyone interested, I invite you read her book. It describes
that she was always bisexual. Her current ministry has no cases of people who
have actually changed their sexuality.
MaudineThis is indeed a violation of the paper's responsibility
to the public. If a person's sexual orientation is a violation
of that person's faith, it is up to them to choose whether or not they want
to follow their true nature, or abandon that nature for their faith. The
psychological and psychiatric community tells us you may not change your
orientation (maybe your behavior, but not your orientation). Therefore you may
not choose that. Many people change religious affiliation. Religion is a
choice (painful as that can be to change affiliations due to societal and
familial pressures).Seems to me that the only answer is follow
one's true nature, and find a soulmate in a same sex relationship, rather
than live a life of celibacy. Or worse, enter into a relationship that will
forever be incomplete, cheating the other party. There are plenty of religions
out there that believe in the basics of Christianity that accept gay and lesbian
couples. And if your family's religion is more important than their love
of their child, it is appropriate to say goodbye to mama and papa. Their love
I agree that churches and counselors should listen to the LGBT community. I
think they should listen a long while before opening their mouths though since
they need to give their jaws a rest.
This editorial exemplifies the truism 'that which one most fervently
forbids, he or she secretly most desires'. Pieces of this nature have
become a parody of public warnings and are more confessional than enlightening.
As frequently as public shootings, now it seems, are cases where Christian
spokespersons are caught molesting children or patroning gay prostitutes.
It's not the average homosexual that needs therapy, it's the
one's who most sincerely want to change their proclivities by condemning
the same in others.
If organized religion adopts as doctrine a position that homosexuality is some
kind of disorder to be "overcome," then this is yet another (richly
deserved) nail in the coffin for organized religion.
There is nothing inherently good or bad about sexual orientation. Every human
being comes equipped with it. It is our respective cultures that teach us how
to look upon it. Unfortunately, some cultures are dominated by religions that
teach their adherents to view sexuality in an unnatural light. No
one is born religious. It is not a natural state. It must be learned. Perhaps
something akin to reparative therapy would be appropriate to address religious
indoctrination which, unlike sexual orientation, is a cognitive state. I feel only sadness for Ms. Boynes. I believe she is sincere –
and harmfully misguided.
"It takes consistent teaching, love, and the word of God to bring about
transformation. This is a process."Being a homosexual would be a
very difficult life. Who would choose that? Seriously. Think about it. So
many people would choose a lifestyle that they have to hide? Does that make
sense to you?So, Ms Boynes is another Christian advocating a
"pray away the gay" therapy. I have yet to see anyone,
WITHOUT a Christian agenda, or WITHOUT making money off of it, advocating such
therapy.Show me the studies and the science.
"Thousands living the Christian lifestyle, along with thousands not actively
involved in a church, but who are dealing with questions, are looking for a way
OUT."FTFY Janet."Quite often, we treat the
symptoms instead of finding the root cause."Homosexuals are NOT
BROKEN. That bears repeating. We are NOT BROKEN!!! Please stop interfering
in our lives. Please STOP telling us that we're not "good enough"
for your fellowship. Please STOP telling us that you know better how to manage
our lives than we do. Please, JUST STOP!"Choosing that
lifestyle ..."We do not "choose that lifestyle", Janet.
I did NOT choose to be gay; I was born that way."Media and
school programs promoting tolerance, equality, fairness and love are drawing our
youths into the gay lifestyle."Nonsense! These programs are
simply telling LGBT people that "your are perfect just as you are".
Janet, you would tell us that we're failed human beings which is simply
disgusting.Conversion therapy HARMS PEOPLE. When will you people
get that through your heads?
Dear DesNews: I understand the concept of free speech and the sharing of
opinions - however, that does not mean one person's ignorance has the same
value as another person's knowledge. Mental health professions
no longer classify same-sex attraction or homosexuality as disorders because
science and research have shown they are not. Science and research has shown
that same-sex attraction and homosexuality are not caused by the
"baggage" of problems in childhood. "Conversion
therapy" is no longer an accepted "treatment" for same-sex
attraction and homosexuality because it has been proven to be ineffective and
harmful. Yes, there are homosexuals who marry and live straight lives, this does
not mean they no longer experience same-sex attraction nor does it mean they are
not part of the bisexual community. This editorial not only goes
against science and research, it goes against the official stance of the LDS
Church. Printing this editorial is irresponsible and harmful. And in
the interest of free speech, one must wonder if you are willing to print am
editorial countering this one?
Alan Chambers, former president of Exodus International, the leading
'ex-gay' Christian organization later had this to say about his work
there: "I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced. I am
sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt
when your attractions didn’t change. I am sorry we promoted sexual
orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that
stigmatized parents."Janet Boynes wrote: "Alarmingly,
California and New Jersey laws have banned “conversion therapy”
counseling for minors who want to leave homosexual lifestyles."Is it the minors who want to change, or is the parents who want to force the
minors to change? That is the question.