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Excommunicated Mormon activist says she has no plans to change

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  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 4:46 p.m.

    Her 15 minutes of fame have expired. Move on.

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    June 30, 2014 8:29 a.m.

    To "ThinksIThink" no, the comments would not be the same. There are statements by past prophets saying that someday the blacks would be ordained Priesthood. I am not aware of any similar statement about women.

  • sms614 Warwick, RI
    June 29, 2014 3:49 p.m.

    Reminds me of Korihor...

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    June 29, 2014 12:54 p.m.

    I read these comments and cannot believe they are from people who claim to be good members. That is the first sign there is something wrong here. Weather she is right or wrong we should pray that she finds her way and can live a better life. To attack her is wrong!

  • ThinksIThink SEATTLE, WA
    June 29, 2014 10:33 a.m.

    What if 40 years ago she would have been arguing that 50 year old black men should be able to get the Priesthood like 12 year old white boys?

    Would people be making the same comments about her?

  • harmanjd Rochester, NY
    June 29, 2014 9:47 a.m.

    Reminds me of Sonia Johnson...same song, same ending. She was briefly celebrated as a "feminist heroine" by the Left, but has generally been forgotten by the world. As will Ms. Kelly.

  • nanacarol7 Butler, AL
    June 28, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    Please know that what this lady states about the church is shaded by her opinions, not the doctrine of the church. The reason that she was excommunicated is because she is not following doctrine and is in fact misleading people. I hope reporters will realize that she is truly not a witness for activity within the church now.

  • take2ndbreath Princeton, TX
    June 28, 2014 3:34 p.m.

    Unbiased1979 made a very interesting observation: "This woman is either very confused or is an expert in manipulation and rationalization." Nope! She's just a lawyer! :-D (No offense to those lawyers out there!) Yes, you Unbiased, are exactly right, she is either very confused or rationalizing. It is very sad. At BYU one of my professors taught us that "rationalization" was just a fancy word for "lying to yourself." I hope someday she'll wake up and it will all suddenly come back clear as day and she will repent and come back to the Church.

  • n2ishn Port Matilda / Centre, PA
    June 28, 2014 8:43 a.m.

    Let’s remember that excommunication is used to keep the Doctrine and the Church membership as “pure” as possible. Excommunication was not used exclusively for Kate Kelly who asked questions but defiantly refused to accept the answer. There are many other actions that, depending on the circumstances, and against the desire and will of the individual, are removed from the Church. It is heartbreaking to see a member who wants to remain a member but cannot, due to the nature of the transgression. Tears and sorrow are plentiful on both sides in this situation. Kate Kelly was given a choice. A choice to stop recruiting and potentially leading other members astray was basically all that was needed to remain a member. She chooses to continue, with pride and defiance, her efforts to teach false doctrine with the objective of ultimately mocking the structure of the Church in order to have her answer be the correct one, not Gods will at this time. She acts of though she had no choice in this matter, which is a lie she wants all of her sympathizers believe.

  • iron&clay RIVERTON, UT
    June 28, 2014 7:07 a.m.

    In reference to her comments about the Celestial Kingdom...

    Joseph Smith sent out a memo back in 1843 regarding the celestial glory...
    "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood {meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage[; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase."..D&C:131

    It of course takes a man AND a woman TOGETHER to enter into this order of the Priesthood.
    To be a King or a Queen.
    To be a Priest or a Priestess.
    To sit on a throne.
    To have a dominion.
    To have eternal increase.

    The flattery of the national press is a poor substitute for the above.

  • njpray Polson, MT
    June 27, 2014 9:05 p.m.

    Excommunication is a court of love..........hopefully she will take the steps to come back, but somehow I doubt that is her intention at this point. She really needs to read and understand that doctrine is added upon by the priesthood through the prophet of the church. That is the way is has been set up by God, and that is the way it has always been. I wish her the best but the cost will be heavy to bear if she continues her quest to over ride the priesthood of God.

  • Harrison Bergeron Holladay , UT
    June 27, 2014 12:07 p.m.

    The underlying assumption of the Ordain Women bunch is based on an erroneous belief. They think they can change who gets ordained to the Priesthood the same way they would change a department store's return policy on a dress (or pant-suit maybe) they don't like. Arguing with the clerk will get you nowhere in this case. The manager cannot help either.

    You have to go to the owner in this situation. And the owner is God. They have his direct line, if they will use it. But they should understand that what they are asking is for Him to rethink His entire creation. It is like asking Him to change which gender has babies. Of course, with God, nothing is impossible. Though, it would seem like a more reasonable request to ask God for understanding about why He did things the way He did.

    "...seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand. For behold, ye yourselves know that he counseleth in wisdom, and in justice, and in great mercy, over all his works." (Jacob 4:10)

  • Church member North Salt Lake, UT
    June 27, 2014 11:54 a.m.

    To: bj hp

    Your logic is not sound. What if the Scientologists came to your door today and told you to ask God if their church was true. But before you asked they also told you that the only legit answer you could receive was that it is true. If you get an answer of no then that means YOU did it wrong.

    How ridiculous would they sound to you?

    I hope one day you will find the courage to be able to question with an open mind. God bless!

  • Deanvrtc Vancouver, WA
    June 27, 2014 10:12 a.m.

    I have walked this road with a few members I had stewardship over. It all start innocently. For multiple reasons this tendency surfaces with those of great intellectual accomplishment. Pride kicks in as they are put on a pedestal by the crowds who also only sustain what they choose, but don't want to take the public "fall", that will come when you fight with God or his servants. At some point, pushed forward by the cowardly followers, "they" feel "they know what is "best" for the whole church. Leaders give loving caution, but pride/ego remain to" drive the individual to their most certain regret.
    Intellectual questions are good as long as it is transcended by reverence for God and those whom He has called to lead. Her mistake was not in the questions, it was how she responded to the answer.

  • grandmagreat Lake Havasu City, AZ
    June 27, 2014 9:29 a.m.

    If this woman is a returned missionary, she has surely forgotten all of the church teachings that she shared with other people. I hope she will realize what this action has cost her, it can't be measured in dollars, but in her eternal progression. My ancestors suffered much from people that did not believe, many of them dying on the plains on their way to a place where they could live the gospel in peace. However, in my generation, I see so many people that lost their way, this woman is just one of them, and Satan is doing his job, as he promised when he was driven from the garden of Eden. My advise to them is change your life and come back and join the saints for eternal blessings.

  • Uncle_Fester Niskayuna, NY
    June 27, 2014 8:44 a.m.

    No surprise here. Why change? It's not like there was a belief in the Church anyway. It's usually better for apostates to separate themselves from the Church, but I notice that with a lot of them while there seems to be a willingness to leave the Church, there is a marked unwillingness to leave the Church alone. Like one hand clapping for attention they just keep on chattering at people not listening.

  • K Mchenry, IL
    June 27, 2014 7:33 a.m.

    CA granny.

    In a legal procedure would you like a male judge and all male jury? That is the issue in the unfairness claim. The real issue is it is the bishop making the decision. Even if he prayed and got a different answer than what is written down he can not do anything about it. I find the notion that she is spreading her thoughts under the guise of being a member, before the excommunication. The whole point of the group was to make a change in policy. It is clear to everyone who read or participated that it isn't currently practiced. I don't understand her excommunication. Why all they fear?

  • bj-hp Maryville, MO
    June 27, 2014 6:19 a.m.

    Church Member: Yes, if you failed to get an answer from Moroni 10:3-5 then you did so because you failed to follow the steps as outlined. It is fool proof if you do exactly as Moroni describes. You need to take a look at what you were doing. Always when you have faith in Jesus Christ, pray with a sincere heart and real intent to change, it will answer you exactly as it states. The failure is yours not Moroni or the Book of Mormon.

  • K Mchenry, IL
    June 26, 2014 9:44 p.m.

    She should keep appealing. The bishop is not the final word. Just the current word on the matter.

  • CA Granny PETALUMA, CA
    June 26, 2014 7:22 p.m.

    My husband has served both as a bishop and a counselor to a stake president and has been part of numerous disciplinary meetings and I don't agree with her perception that they are not fair to women. These meetings are very difficult for these men and they try to do so in a way that protects both the individual and the church. They are always held in strict privacy, so releasing the news to newspapers by Ms. Kelly is an infraction on her part. Witnesses are not called; the discussion is limited to the individual and the men and they take these responsibilities very seriously. The point of the meeting is to clarify that covenants may not being kept as they should be, so the decision is intended to make the best arrangement for the individual to renew those covenants and bring themself back into full fellowship with the church. But it is their choice whether to cooperate with the priesthood leaders or, as Ms. Kelly has indicated, continue to pursue activities that aren't in keeping with covenants she has made.

  • Fred Vader Oklahoma City, OK
    June 26, 2014 5:02 p.m.

    To all those members of the LDS Church who agree with Kate Kelly and disagree with the leaders of Christ's church, I offer the following from my elder brother, Darth..."I find your lack of faith disturbing."

  • Church member North Salt Lake, UT
    June 26, 2014 4:32 p.m.

    To: bj hp

    Your response made me lol. So you are saying that Moroni 10:3-5 always works. With everyone 100% of the time. Except as you say, when it doesn't work because the person "has failed in one way or another"?

    There are a lot of people, including me, who have taken Moroni's challenge and it didn't work at all. So you are saying that I did it wrong or that I have failed in some way?

    I should start a group and ask people to give me their money. But first they must ask God if it is what they should do. I will advise them that if they get an answer of yes, then that answer was from God. If they get an answer that they should not give me their money then I will advise them that they didn't ask properly. They should humble themselves before the Lord and ask again. If they keep getting an answer of no then they should repeat this last step until they get an answer of yes.

    Do you see how I can ensure everyone always eventually gets an answer of yes?

    That is how Moroni 10:3-5 works.

  • cindyacre Shelley, ID
    June 26, 2014 2:56 p.m.

    DiegaDeLaVega: I concur with your remarks. Luis Suarez' behavior reflects a typical and common thinking prevalent today: that there are no consequences for ANY behavior (regardless, in Suarez's case that his actions are physically harmful to others.) What is our responsibility towards others? In essence, we only have our own behavior to answer for, before God. But if we have tried to influence others through arm-twisting, through the IRS, or through demands, our own agenda must be on tenuous grounds if it cannot stand by itself.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 26, 2014 2:53 p.m.

    he said she "was and am still stunned" when she read the letter informing her she had been excommunicated.

    Well - I'm surprised that she is surprised. She obviously doesn't understand the order of the Priesthood and she needs to re-read elder Oaks talk.

  • bj-hp Maryville, MO
    June 26, 2014 12:51 p.m.

    Church Member seems to feel that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is just like all other Churches and donn seems to feel you can't be a Christian and be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. There is no other Church on the face of the earth that has the claims of authority or words that state it is the ONLY TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH on the face of the Earth.

    The Church still would have grown with or without the practices of polygamy or banning blacks from the priesthood. Both were discontinued by revelation and nothing else would have stopped them from continuing as they were except for that.

    Sincere prayer, real intent as mentioned in Moroni 10:3-5 is the only way to know that what is stated by others as the only True Church is completely and totally true. Following the steps as mentioned in Moroni is 100% fool proof. Those who say otherwise is because they have failed in one way or another to do exactly as it says.

  • TombstoneJim Tombstone, AZ
    June 26, 2014 12:10 p.m.

    If you do not recognize the authority of the Prophet to lead the Church, you do not have a testimony of the Restoration of Priesthood authority to guide mankind. You have made a very sad choice to join with adversaries of the gospel to the point that you are, by personal choice, no longer numbered among the saints. I pray that she will find within herself the repentance needed to return and once again participate in the ordinances of salvation and eternal life.

  • woodysworld Sandy, UT
    June 26, 2014 10:24 a.m.

    @ BIG RED '93
    The High Plains of, Texas

    Your comment June 25, 2014 3:48 PM is SO right on target :) "My wife and I discussed this today at lunch. She said 'I don't need the priesthood to be equal to you. I already have authority and power over you.' And I laughed nervously, because I knew she was right. Gotta love her!"

  • DiegoDeLaVega Los Angeles, CA
    June 26, 2014 9:02 a.m.

    Seeing it's the World Cup, I offer this analogy. Luis Suarez, a very skilled, albeit infamous, soccer player for the Uruguay selection, has the nasty habit of biting opponents in matches. He's gotten into trouble in the past for it, but just his last game against Italy he did it again- he bit a player mid-match. FIFA ruled today that for his obvious rule breaking that Suarez would be ejected from the World Cup and would be suspended for the next four months, having been previously warned of continuing his inappropriate preschool habit of biting people. Suarez, in his poor deluded mind, really feels and thinks that he's done no wrong and that biting in the sport and organization is acceptable. Surely, he'll have a small and insignificant following that would agree and sympathize with him. Regardless, he's broken the rules and maliciously defied the organization he's volunteered to be a part of. No way is FIFA going to change their no-biting policy- those are the rules, period. Get where I'm going? #KateKellyIsLuisSuarez

  • Benedito Beijing, PRC, 00
    June 26, 2014 2:51 a.m.

    Some doctrines have been corrupted along the past century. One of them is about "equality". I believe that more than any other, this is the most diabolic perversion ever. This poor lady fell victim of the devil's scam. Had she paid more attention to the gospel and temple ordinances, she and all other women lured by this distortion would have understood that men need to be ordained but women do not. Their power is not dependent on ordination. Men may rule outer affairs in the kingdom, with all rites and ceremonial, whereas women rule inner affairs by bearing children and consolidating the fabric of families. It is about time people face the truth.

  • woodysworld Sandy, UT
    June 26, 2014 2:21 a.m.

    "The gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us to love and treat all people with kindness and civility—even when we disagree." LDS CHURCH NEWSROOM

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    June 26, 2014 12:23 a.m.

    The LDS priesthood is a priesthood of the laity. This is unlike the priesthoods of other denominations which one "goes into," like one goes "into" a career such as medicine, law, or the military. This separates them from the laity of those respective churches. My being an LDS priesthood holder does not somehow make me something "other than" a member of the laity. I remain a layman just like any other church member.

  • oddman ,
    June 25, 2014 11:11 p.m.

    He felt the church no longer had the authority to act for God and that the priesthood was no longer on earth because of doctrinal changes and corruption through out the so called priesthood. He posted other changes in Christ's doctrine and church. But I repeat, he did not start a church. His friends did, however, and that is how the Lutheran church became.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2014 10:17 p.m.

    I have no respect for anyone who stage manages their own martyrdom

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    June 25, 2014 9:04 p.m.

    Pride is not a real happy process for anyone.

    Proverbs 16:18-19

    King James Version (KJV)

    18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

    19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

    The Savior, a Loving Father in Heaven gave us all the opportunity to have the Holy Ghost in this life and FOREVER but requires humility and repentance.

    Hopefully, she will realize what she is doing is not bringing happiness in this life or the next.

  • New York New York, NY
    June 25, 2014 8:56 p.m.

    Stay strong people!

  • bigirish OREM, UT
    June 25, 2014 7:12 p.m.

    Classic grandstanding, looking for attention and self-aggrandizement, me, me, me - and got ex'd because she tried to be a law unto herself and take others with her. She obviously doesn't get the equality thing in the Church, the separation of roles but complete equality. To me, I have the priesthood so I can be more equal to my wife and her ability to have children, something I can't do, nor want to. We raised our eight together, the Lord allowed me to have the priesthood so I could better measure up by learning how to magnify these callings and learn how to preside and serve, while trying to be the main breadwinner. My wife is no less than I and vice-versa, for our differences. LDS women have so many roles and leadership opportunities in the Church - and can exercise the priesthood in temple callings as well. I stand in awe of LDS women and all they do, so much better than us men very often. So what is this lady missing? Someone has to preside, and that role was given to men - but not to hold over women in any way. No unrighteous dominion!

  • donn layton, UT
    June 25, 2014 6:45 p.m.

    @Fourfunsons, Only Begotten=(monogenes) means a mortal mother (Mary) and an immortal father (God)-different than being an only Son. All of us are sons and daughters of God. True, in a generic senses, but
    “… us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,(Eph 1:5) We must be adopted into His Family.,i.e.,
    Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba] Father.”(Gal 4:6).

    *Only Begotten is misleading, since in English it appears to express a metaphysical relationship. Jesus is God’s Son in a unique, one-of-a-kind sense.

  • djofraleigh raleigh, NC
    June 25, 2014 6:17 p.m.

    She had to pick between trying to change the church via leading public protest and being in the church and not holding the priesthood.

  • The Caravan Moves On Enid, OK
    June 25, 2014 5:02 p.m.

    You know who I REALLY feel bad for?

    Her kids.

    However....all is not lost. Among other things, the scriptures are clear that if children are not taught correctly by their parents then the sins of the children are upon the heads of the parents.

    Protect your faith and nurture it like Alma taught in Alma chapter 32. Before I lay down to sleep tonight, I, for one, am going to read from the Book of Mormon.

  • The Caravan Moves On Enid, OK
    June 25, 2014 4:50 p.m.

    Article quote: "I think I've acted with integrity at every step of the way and I'm proud of our group for continuing to ask hard questions," she said Tuesday. "They took away my membership but they can't take away my testimony."

    Well, she's right on one thing: the LDS church can not "take" her testimony from her.

    What she does not understand is that she gave her testimony away herself.

    Sad, but that's the way it is....

  • thinkblue DRAPER, UT
    June 25, 2014 3:52 p.m.

    Proud of you Kate. Stay strong.

  • Big Red '93 The High Plains of, Texas
    June 25, 2014 3:48 p.m.

    My wife and I discussed this today at lunch. She said 'I don't need the priesthood to be equal to you. I already have authority and power over you.' And I laughed nervously, because I knew she was right. Gotta love her!

  • fourfunsons Calgary, 00
    June 25, 2014 3:35 p.m.

    @donn: For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Only Begotten means a mortal mother (Mary) and an immortal father (God)-different than being an only Son. All of us are sons and daughters of God.

  • Jim Cobabe Provo, UT
    June 25, 2014 2:26 p.m.

    This woman says she does not plan to change, but proposes that the Church should change. A rather ironic expectation, from my perspective. After all, every reasonable person makes course changes in response to changing circumstances. This is how we all maintain balance with the environment we live in.

  • donn layton, UT
    June 25, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    RE: Excommunicated Mormon activist says she has no plans to change.

    I left the church when I became a Christian, John 3:16 was very helpful.“For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that “everyone who believes” in him(Jesus not JS) will not perish but have eternal life”(John 3:16 NET) VS,

    The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him.(John 3:36)

  • Shimlau SAINT GEORGE, UT
    June 25, 2014 2:23 p.m.

    @ John Kateel: "They rallied the NAACP who in turn rallied the Federal Government to yank the LDS Church tax exempt status if this were to continue. Thus, Prophet Spencer Kimball had a timely " revelation" to abruptly change course and blacks have been welcome ever since." could you document that? I have heard it before, and it seems to me that it would be against the law for the government to do such a thing as it violates the seperation clause.

  • PhoenixAZ phoenix, AZ
    June 25, 2014 2:23 p.m.

    Give it a rest, Kate. Or at least grow up.

  • bikeboy Boise, ID
    June 25, 2014 2:19 p.m.

    "The Church is like a great caravan—organized, prepared, following an appointed course, with its captains of tens and captains of hundreds all in place. ... Are there storms that rage along the way, floods that wash away the bridges, deserts to cross, and rivers to ford? Such is life in this fallen sphere. The caravan moves on."
    - Bruce R. McConkie (October 1984 General Conference)

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    June 25, 2014 2:11 p.m.

    When I left the Unitarian Church because of their liberal political advocacy, I did not seek to make a media spectacle of myself. Rather, I simply did what was appropriate at the time, and took my business elsewhere. Meanwhile, it is not my place to judge Kate Kelly's standing before her Maker, or her ultimate standing in the eternities, and I would not presume to do so.

  • Wave Rider San Diego, CA
    June 25, 2014 2:05 p.m.

    Someone should do a deeper investigative piece about Comrade Kelly before Ordain Women,
    when as champion of the proletariat she co-founded Mormon May Day.
    mormonstories #147 mormon-may-day-with-founder-kate-kelly
    "On May 1st 2010, International Workers Day, or May Day, we will participate
    in local May Day festivities and organize Social Justice and the Gospel
    Teach-ins/Firesides all across the country."

  • goosehuntr Tooele, UT
    June 25, 2014 1:36 p.m.

    Uh, no Mrs. Kelly you gave your membership away. You implied that the church gave you no options... they gave you options... but you persisted to write your own doctrines, and force them upon the First Presidency and quorum of the 12 apostles. That is not wise. Pride goeth before the fall.. as it says. Lacking in all of this was your humility. It was my will, not thine be done all the way. Please reconsider your desire not to change. If you don't, like a river being dammed, your progress will stop. In thinking out loud to you... I guess I never really understood what you lacked from the Priesthood... a title? All things we yours that the priesthood has to offer.. except a title. Man, girl... I just don't understand... you had it all, now you have very little. My goodness what you have given up for stubborness.

  • PacificCreek Puyallup, WA
    June 25, 2014 1:20 p.m.

    “The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done” - Joseph Smith

    Kelly draw all the attention she wants to her cause. At the end of the day the Lord's church will continue to grow and progress. From the start of the church people have disagreed with the doctrine from the inside and out. Those who fought really didn't make any difference. The Lord will accomplish his work and the gospel will continue to spread. This will continue to happen under the direction of a Prophet who takes his direction from the Lord. This event will eventually be a blip on the radar screen of history of the church.

  • mostevenings Lebanon, IN
    June 25, 2014 1:18 p.m.

    ... she said Tuesday. "They took away my membership but they can't take away my testimony."

    Didn't Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery say the same thing? I don't think she gets it.

  • CylonesRus sunamn, IN
    June 25, 2014 1:03 p.m.

    Isaiah 12 As for my people, children are their oppressors,
    and women rule over them.
    O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err,
    and destroy the way of thy paths

  • TheProudDuck Newport Beach, CA
    June 25, 2014 1:00 p.m.

    The American Jesuit theologian John Courtney Murray -- one of my heroes -- dared in the 1940s to question the Church's longstanding doctrine that in a Catholic-majority country, governments should actively suppress non-Catholic "heresy." It was an ancient doctrine, with the imprimatur of the man the Church still reveres as its greatest theologian, Thomas Aquinas. Murray went beyond merely questioning it, to outright advocating that it be changed. Scandalously, he said that Church was wrong -- that on this one particular issue, the outside world had reached a clearer understanding of God's truth than God's one true church.

    He was strenuously opposed, and placed under formal restriction. (Like Mormons, Catholics believe that the Church is preserved from fundamental error by divine inspiration.)

    Then in 1965, he won. The Church adopted the powerful declaration "Dignitatis Humanae," which recognized religious freedom as a fundamental, divinely ordained right of the human person. Boston conquered Rome.

    Ms. Kelly is not Father Murray, and whether women ought to be ordained to Priesthood office is a tougher question than the question of religious freedom. But sometimes boats need rocking.

  • mattrick78 Cedar City, UT
    June 25, 2014 12:58 p.m.

    "As a non member this is interesting to me in the fact that Joesph Smith had personal revelation and a personal testimony of Jesus, which started the whole church. Now flash forward to the present time and the same behavior is frowned upon, so much so that you are excommunicated."

    True to an extent. The difference is that Joseph Smith didn't join an existing church, try to change it, and get excommunicated.

  • Sniglet Bellevue, WA
    June 25, 2014 12:53 p.m.

    What amazes me is how much attention is being paid to Kate and her cause now that she has been excommunicated. As someone who is non-LDS I had never heard of Kate or Mormon doctrinal activists until all the stories started plastering the media about Kate's excommunication this week. Many of my friends are even talking about it. A muslim co-worker of mine even brought it up. My wife even mentioned it as the dinner table last night, which sparked a discussion with our children about the role women play in various religions.

    This story has really struck a nerve and is getting the Mormon church more attention than it ever had while Romney was running for President. Kate has really captivated the imagination of the country.

  • davewhittle Springville, UT
    June 25, 2014 12:53 p.m.

    My wife said it best: "This is just terribly sad. I'm sure the Lord is grieving."

    It's sad for Sister Kelly, sad for the church, and sad for observers who don't understand the church or the ways of the Lord.

    How much better it will be if we all stay focused on the First Principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ: faith, hope, repentance, and love.

    Faith is acceptance, patience, and trust in God. His ways are not our ways.

    We hope for all good things in our life and in the life of those we love.

    Repentance is a change of heart and mind and word and deed. "By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins — behold, he will confess them and forsake them."

    "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails."

  • TheProudDuck Newport Beach, CA
    June 25, 2014 12:47 p.m.

    "It's really simple. Either Thomas S. Monson is a Prophet of God or he isn't. Once he speaks, the debate is over. At least that's how you believe if you have a true testimony."

    By that standard, the Apostle Paul was an apostate.

    The Prophet -- Peter -- spoke. He declared that Gentiles must abide by Jewish law. Paul, whose Gentile converts had an understandable reluctance to undergo a particular operation belowdecks, "withstood him to the face, for he was to be blamed." They then spent about 1/3 of the New Testament arguing back and forth and contradicting each other about legalism versus the new covenant.

    There has never been an infallible prophet, and scripture does not support that statement (by a non-Priesthood holder) that "when the prophet speaks, the debate is over."

    "...and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus they were all equal..." Alma 1:26.

  • TheProudDuck Newport Beach, CA
    June 25, 2014 12:42 p.m.

    I hate left-liberal politics with an Old Testament passion precisely because it is not liberal -- because it prefers to destroy the maker of an argument, not the argument itself. Just ask George Will, Brendan Eich, and anyone who questions orthodoxy on the "rape epidemic," climate change, biological influence on human intelligence, gay marriage, or any other left-wing dogma.

    I have a naive faith that truth will prevail on its own merits. That a person who advocates an error will fail. That it's always better to outplay the opposing soccer player than bite him.

  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    June 25, 2014 12:27 p.m.

    "I think she is baiting people and they are taking the bait."

    Precisely...she used her church membership as a convenient platform to advance her social and political agenda by calling out the Mormon church in a public arena. It's obvious that her ostensible "testimony" and membership was nothing more than a political ruse.

    People are taking it hook, line, and sinker.

  • TheProudDuck Newport Beach, CA
    June 25, 2014 12:26 p.m.

    When an employee is insubordinate, you fire her.

  • Hey It's Me Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2014 12:18 p.m.

    Supporters and Non supporters alike all know this is not the end of Kate Kelly unless the media actually finds something else they can stir trouble up with. Does she deserve all this media attention? No! She will continue to push and shove people around the rest of her life. If you read the 1st paragraph of her letter to her Bishop and Stake President, you will realize she demands and has no humility, which won't probably get her far in life. If she got the priesthood then she would dema to be a Bishop, then a general authority.99.9% of women in the church are happy with their standing (which is equal with the men. We serve in different ways. But we love to serve. Maybe Miss Kelly can demand God to make men start having babies. Then they would be equal to us. She likes taking everything to the media because she loves attention and has said she just wants to be "true to herself" obviously not to the Lord.

  • holly s ft collins, CO
    June 25, 2014 12:09 p.m.

    The sad part about this is all the people she's taking down with her. , "We're going to continue, as we have done, to participate in faith-affirming action," she said. They are not backing down. She has several thousand who follow and support her and it's just a matter of time before the Church loses many more. One of the questions asked among members who want to attend the temple is "Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" All those who are affiliated and supporting Ordain Women, are going to need to rethink what they are doing.

  • Lilalips Attleboro, MA
    June 25, 2014 11:31 a.m.

    Women can be prophets that are also judges in Israel. Women blessed the sick in the early days of our restored church. Does anyone know where women are told that someday they can be "priestesses" in this same, LDS Church? If you are a recommend holding member and you don't know, then you have completely missed the boat. And all you supposed "Saints" are upset because of what? A woman wants to officiate in priesthood duties? Really? What about, "We believe all things, we hope all things…. Is God limited by man's limitations? Absolutely. And so are women.

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    June 25, 2014 11:23 a.m.

    To "Midvaliean" there is a difference. Joseph Smith received personal revelation for him. Ms. Kelly has not received any revelation. She asked the LDS leaders to consider the issue. They responded in April 2014 in the LDS General Confrence. Elder Oaks gave a talk titled "The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood". In there he stated that the church is "not free to alter the divinely decreed pattern that only men will hold offices in the priesthood." Ms. Kelly received an answer to her question but since she didn't like it has committed apostacy in attempt to change what God has said.

    To "Dennis" she moved to Utah earlier this year, AFTER all of the issues started to grow. She was originally from back east, outside of Utah.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 25, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    Henry Drummond,

    "....I might be sympathetic to her cause, but I am not sympathetic to her methods."
    ______________________________

    The measure seems to be that all is well in Zion as long as there is no unpleasantness.

    Last night, I was watching the American Experience on PBS. It was about the 1963 March on Washington. Concerned about what it might precipitate, President Kennedy tried to talk Martin Luther King out of going ahead with the march. When King made it clear that he intended to go ahead with or without the President’s support, Kennedy knew he was caught in a bind. He felt he had no other choice than give his blessing which he did. The rest is history and the ‘I have a dream’ speech is one the memorable moments in history.

    I don’t know how of a corollary there might be here. But it takes a determined person to raise consciousness on an issue. There is no way Kate Kelly or anyone else could do that on such a sensitive issue without ruffling a few feathers.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    June 25, 2014 11:15 a.m.

    Church Member

    "My guess is they will change these two doctrines in the next 30 years or their numbers will continue to drop. Can you imagine how many members there would be today if they hadn't changed their minds on polygamy and african americans and the priesthood."

    My guess is that you leave the church in 30 years unless you repent.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    June 25, 2014 11:12 a.m.

    It's really simple. Either Thomas S. Monson is a Prophet of God or he isn't. Once he speaks, the debate is over. At least that's how you believe if you have a true testimony.

    Kate Kelly from her words and actions doesn't believe this. She wants the Church to conform to the World. The Church has never been of this world and will never be of this world.

    Jesus himself said that his kingdom is not of this world.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    June 25, 2014 11:07 a.m.

    Sounds like your typical unrepentant person that will make themselves the victim and will never admit they are wrong. There are lots of people who are excommunicated that own up to what they did and realize they are wrong. There is one such person in my life right now. I am doing everything I can to support them.

    Kate Kelly is a modern Korihor who wants to change the church or society to fit their own personal beliefs. The Church is not a democracy and will never be a democracy.

  • ohiostatefan DRAPER, UT
    June 25, 2014 11:05 a.m.

    The direction of the mormon church is typical of anyone who has an opinion in the mormon church. If you have free thought and want to be a mormon, you will not be allowed to do this in the LDS church. It's a club, and this club decides the rules. If you buy into the Mormon faith then you have to follow club rules. I love the part where she has been told that she isn't going to heaven. Its typical arrogance of my church is better than your church. It's going to be an up hill climb for her, but proud she is standing up to Club MO.

  • Idahotransplant West Jordan, UT
    June 25, 2014 10:52 a.m.

    Hmmmmm? Have the following been present with this whole ordeal:

    Broken heart and contrite spirit?

    Selfishness?
    Greed?
    Being in the world but not of it?
    Contention?
    Doubt?
    Anger?
    Fear?

    A couple of question?

    What needs to be present to be led by the spirit?
    What can not be present if the spirit is to reside and assist with guidance to questions and important decisions?

    Too many rely solely on thier intellect and do not focus and listen to that special companion we all have an opportunity to have and utilize when it becomes necessary.

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2014 10:51 a.m.

    Interesting that after all this, she still doesn't get it. You can have your questions and issues with the church. But you can't organize a formal group, recruit, and stage protests on Temple Square and engage in other displays of hubris and remain in good standing in the church. Maybe the church will make the changes she wishes in the future, but not in response to her self-proclaimed "faith-affirming" activism. Her tactics would have questionable value even in the political world, and they certainly have no value in the restored church.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    June 25, 2014 10:42 a.m.

    I'm certain that getting away from the fold will empower her to stay away. It did me. The air is really fresh outside of Zion.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    June 25, 2014 10:40 a.m.

    You made a good run at. A+ for effort. Maybe one day equal rights will take center stage and this won't be so difficult. Nobody was ever questioning God. All that is questioned is decisions by "men" to protect themselves from standing up and actually being "MEN".

  • RedGyl San Diego, California
    June 25, 2014 10:35 a.m.

    I had gone to the Ordain Women website before this past General Conference, and the stances were pretty interesting, but I can tell you this: Ordain Women's goal is motivated by the desire to seek higher social status, not to seek God's will nor to do good.

    It'd be one thing if she wanted priesthood power so she could better bless the lives of those around her. It's another thing entirely for her to want priesthood power for "equality's" sake. Not equality as the Lord sees it, but as the world sees it.

    Everyone is equal before God. We are all His precious sons and daughters. This is true regardless of the inequalities we inflict on each other in this life.

    Seek first to do God's will. Keep His commandments. Do not let Babylon deceive you.

    I hope this woman's motivation changes, that she would seek to do good instead of seeking position and status. Her, and all of those who follow Ordain Women. Political motivation is not worth opposing God for. And if this woman sees an angel of light, I hope she tries to shake his/her hand.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    June 25, 2014 10:23 a.m.

    JS

    I've found that the most judgemental people as a group are the athiests/agnostics/secular humanists and all (mostly liberal) thinking people who denegrate any religion for not adhering to todays PC society of accepting all behaviors as the norm. No judgement or values, just a do your own thing and woe be unto any person or church or religion who says otherwise. Now that's judgementalism, and it is becoming the norm for a lot of American culture.

  • JNA Layton, UT
    June 25, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    In my opinion, Miss Kelly knew from the very beginning she would be excommunicated or disfellowshipped. She knew that when it happened it would become public, and media outlets would play to her favor. her whole intention was to try and shame the Church....but I have never been prouder to be a member.

  • sg newhall, CA
    June 25, 2014 10:16 a.m.

    She is entitled to her opinions and beliefs. Does her actions undermine the church, its doctrine and the church leaders? No, I don't believe they do. Have thousands upon thousands left the church because of her? She is of the opinion that women should hold the priesthood. Does this imply that she is no longer fit to be in the Celestial Kingdom (basically, according to Mormon doctrine she is currently damned). No. Why is it that in our culture we live to die rather than life for today? Our culture teaches us that A + B = C; that is NOT the case. For many, the equation does not add up. There are variable and that is where the Atonement comes into play. For her church leaders to judge with the implication that she must embrace the Atonement as one of the criteria shows arrogance. Do these men really know what is in her heart? Do they really know if she has NOT embraced the Atonement. Her quest/push for priesthood equality is not a question of faith or lack of testimony, but of an honest quest to understand why? Why only the men. In church history, women pronounced blessing.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    June 25, 2014 10:14 a.m.

    @65TossPowerTrap
    I'm not LDS but I tend to agree with you. I think this is about publicity for a cause. Nobody outside of Utah had heard of her and now she is an international martyr. I think she is baiting people and they are taking the bait. Its a very efficient way to drive a lot of traffic to her website. I'm sure this "appeal process" will be accompanied by a lot of publicity as well. I might be sympathetic to her cause, but I am not sympathetic to her methods.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    June 25, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    John Kateel- your conclusions are incorrect. I'd recommend you read the 2nd biography of Spencer W. Kimball 'Lengthen Your Stride' that his son wrote. There are several chapters in the book devoted to the blacks and the priesthood issue that are quite enlightening. Same with the CD that accompanies the book.

    The revelation making the change was not for convenience, nor was it made under any pressure from outside forces. It was made because a Prophet questioned the doctrine/policy and how it affected the world wide church. He wasn't looking to make a change but it was made.

    Byron Marchant and Doug Wallace were just like Ms. Kelly. They had their opinion and wanted the church to bow to their will. An apostate is an apostate. They are not in any sense hero's. Well maybe they are to you.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    June 25, 2014 9:51 a.m.

    Denverite write, "That's a body blow to all of their testimonies, especially kids under 18."

    Right you are. They see their kate--their mother, their sister--earnestly seeking what she feels Heavenly Father has called her to be--and the Church brushing her off, saying "This is correct because we've always done it this way". Thousands of members have gone through the same thing with their gay sons--they KNOW their kids didn't choose to be gay; they know their kids are faithful and worthy members--but they are told that Heavenly Father has chosen them to live alone in celibacy. Does this make any sense to them? No. They either see Heavenly Father as arbitrary and cruel or that the leaders of the church are not listening.

  • Hockey Fan Miles City, MT
    June 25, 2014 9:48 a.m.

    I'm really tired of reading and hearing the assertion/accusation that people are not allowed to have questions or differences of opinion with Church doctrines or policies. It's one thing to have a question or difference of opinion. It's an entirely different matter to engage in militant, coercive tactics to try to force change when you disagree with something. In my study of Church history, I have seen numerous examples of people who had a difference of opinion. The outcome of those people was based on how they managed their difference of opinion, not on their having had a difference of opinion. If Ms. Kelly wanted to be "authentic" or "true to herself," if she truly thought the Church's rejection of her OrdainWomen crusade was totally unacceptable, she would have been more honest to request that her name be removed from the records of the Church. I received two such requests when I was a bishop. Instead, she chose a course of action that surely she knew would lead to where it did. She made that choice. That's called agency and, I would also add, accountability.

  • LiberalEastCoastMember Parkesburg, PA
    June 25, 2014 9:47 a.m.

    Martin Luther King didn't host a tea when he wanted civil rights laws changed and neither should Kate Kelly given how strongly the good sister feels about giving women the priesthood.

    Beside, Mormons aren't likely to attend a tea anyway. Duh!

    The establishment did and said all sorts of horrible, despicable, mean-spirited things to Dr. King finally murdering him with an assassin's bullet. Being excommunicated, while sad, is not harsh in comparison to punishment meted out to previous social pioneers. Persecution and hatred comes with the territory.

    I suspect after the initial shock wears off, Ms. Kelly will be just fine.

  • Church member North Salt Lake, UT
    June 25, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    "It is the spirit that converts. If you have a testimony of the church, it is because the spirit bore witness to you that Jesus is the Christ; that Joseph Smith was called of God; the Book of Mormon is exactly what it claims to be; and that the church is lead today by revelation through living prophets."

    The only problem with using the spirit to find truth is that it seems the spirit is telling everyone different answers. When a Catholic asks, the spirit tells them the Catholic church is true. When an FLDS person asks they are told that the FLDS church is true. Same with all the other religions of the world. They all use the spirit (emotion) and they are all getting different answers from God. So maybe your method for finding truth isn't sound?

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    June 25, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    Kate Kelly got a law degree, has identified herself as an international human rights authority. She needs this to make her relevant in the legal world. These actions are to stack feathers in her cap. Her social standing in the legal society is the most important part of her goals. Reading the non-member comments from around the country show she is accomplishing her goals.

  • A Quaker Brooklyn, NY
    June 25, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    While I already politely show the door to LDS missionaries, watching this process unfold, and reading the comments here, just makes me want to reverse the process and approach them in the street and offer them the love and shelter of a better denomination.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 25, 2014 9:34 a.m.

    The prophets of ancient Israel chastised the children of Israel calling them a stiffnecked people. In reading some of the comments here, I wonder how aptly the term stiffnecked might apply to some of the Latter-day Saints of today.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 25, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    esodije,

    "....No religious society can plausibly maintain its claim to authority that continually changes its doctrines (and its practices arising therefrom) to suit changing times...."
    ______________________________

    A religion that can’t adapt will eventually become extinct. Jesus himself challenged the conventional wisdom of his day. Paul relaxed requirements of Mosaic law to cast a wider net and in so doing brought the gospel to the larger Hellenist world. The entire 2,000 year history of Christianity has been a saga of adaptation to an ever changing world.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    June 25, 2014 9:19 a.m.

    Pride cometh before the fall. She's got a lot of pride that she needs to get rid of before she starts the process back.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    June 25, 2014 9:18 a.m.

    rdahl wrote, "And as for personal opinion, go to ANY other church and express your opinion contrary to what they teach and see what happens."

    Any church that claims it has THE TRUTH, yes. They will ask you to leave. But go to any Unitarian-Universalist church and you will be welcomed, questions and all. UU's seek wisdom and understanding in all the religions of the world--but affirm that YOUR conscience and your experience is the best authority.

  • Denverite Centennial, CO
    June 25, 2014 9:04 a.m.

    And, after all this...suppose the Church changed the policy tomorrow and began ordaining some women who are members of the Church to the priesthood. Guess what, Katie ? You still missed the boat--because of, uh, not being a member anymore...and I gotta think Church leaders would think at least twice about ordaining you, of all people, ever, because of your being willing to leave over the issue in the first place.

    I feel for her family, though. That's a body blow to all of their testimonies, especially kids under 18.

  • J.S Bountiful, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:55 a.m.

    @Pierda

    Man (or woman, not exactly sure) this is HER disciplinary counsel. She's free to share it if she wants. People shouldn't be offended by that.

    If there's one reason she might never come back to church will probably be the fact that she'll be the talk during all Relief Society activities. I'm still to find another group of people more judgmental than Mormons - and I am one!

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:46 a.m.

    I remember years ago when the ERA was being debated. The church opposed it, but there was another woman who claimed to be an active and faithfull member of the church who favored the ERA and mounted a campaign to get the church to reverse its stance on the ERA. When the church did not change, she became much like this woman and punlicly and loudly fought and condemned the church, then acted surprised when she was excommunicated.

    the church continued on, growing in numbers and strength. I wonder whatever happened to her?

    I think in a couple years the chruch will still be here going strong (unless the radical gays have their way) and we'll be asking the same thing, what happened to that OW woman?

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    If she believes she is receiving revelation from God over church leaders to make doctrinal changes, then why not create her own church since she claims she is speaking on God's behalf?

  • J.S Bountiful, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:35 a.m.

    @antodav

    There are many levels of testimony - as there are many levels of faith. She may not be 100% converted to the gospel and all its teachings. No one but the Lord can say if she has or not a testimony or not.

    I do not agree with her position but I do hope she'll become a member again.

    Whether only Mormons can go to heaven that is in fact a true doctrine: the teachings are clear that to achieve the highest level of glory a person needs (1) baptism by immersion by someone who holds the proper authority (2) be confirmed a MEMBER OF THE LDS CHURCH also by someone who holds authority (3)receive all the ordinances offered in the LDS temples. Except for the first step all the others are exclusively for members, or Mormons, as she put. Even if you believe someone as good as Mother Theresa can one day achieve the Celestial Kingdom, eventually she will have to go through all those steps as well - whether they happen in the afterlife or during the Millennium. Even though Church authorities do not verbalize the teachings by saying that "only Mormons go to heaven" that's exactly what it is.

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    June 25, 2014 8:30 a.m.

    Well, I guess there's always the Community of Christ (f/k/a Reorganized LDS Church), which started ordaining women to its priesthood some years ago. I read somewhere, however, that the C of C lost a huge portion of its active membership when that change happened (and anyone who's visited Nauvoo in recent years knows that the C of C now barely acknowledges Joseph Smith as anything more than a historical figure). No religious society can plausibly maintain its claim to authority that continually changes its doctrines (and its practices arising therefrom) to suit changing times. To suddenly start ordaining women to the priesthood and/or to encompass homosexuality doctrinally--the tendency ~and~ the practice--would pretty much gut the LDS Church's claim to authority, which is probably the point of the whole thing.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 25, 2014 8:16 a.m.

    "I invite you to strive to come back to full fellowship. This is an opportunity for you to begin anew, to take full advantage of the great gift of the Atonement, to again qualify for the blessings of the temple, and to enjoy again all of the blessings of the restored gospel," Bishop Harrison wrote.
    ______________________________

    Under Christian belief in general and even Mormon belief in particular, the Atonement is not contingent on membership in any particular church or any church at all.

  • Pierda kaysville, ut
    June 25, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    I've served in Priesthood Leadership positions for years and there are a couple of important issues that this story and Mrs. Kelly seem to miss.

    1) If a man who was a priesthood leader had been accused of the same thing that she was,he would have been excommunicated very quickly by virtue of his position in the Church. To claim this process is discriminatory toward women is entirely false.
    2) The first step in the repentance process is humility. Statements made by Mrs. Kelly and the OW followers show a stark lack of this essential trait.
    3) It is a documented fact that there have been several meetings with Church leaders in which Mrs. Kelly was encouraged to ask her "Hard" questions and received answers to them. She just didn't like the answers and won't like the answers until she can dictate what they are. She also lied about these meetings.
    4) The process of Church Discipline is a very private thing. To choose to publish these private communications shows the motives and intent of this group.

    It is clear that the OW organization is not humbly seeking revelation, but rather seeks to embarrass Church Leaders with bully tactics.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 25, 2014 8:07 a.m.

    On the count of 3, how about if we all quit giving this person 15 minutes of unearned fame - 1.2.3.

  • MrsM Bristol, RI
    June 25, 2014 8:03 a.m.

    The Bishops of all faiths could take a lesson from the Bishop in Virginia who had the courage to take a stand to protect the LDS Church from heresy. As Globetrotter states, you can walk away from any Church you do not like. There is no reason, other than to gain publicity for your cause, to call public attention to your leaving. We should pray for heretics of all faiths.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:02 a.m.

    "...If they don't change their doctrines on Gays and Women then they will continue to get mocked, made fun of, and educated people will continue to not join the church."

    I consider myself an educated person, but I didn't join the church through a series of intellectual tests. If you try to put every doctrine through some kind of logic test, you will never come to the conclusion that it is true based solely on intellect.

    It is the spirit that converts. If you have a testimony of the church, it is because the spirit bore witness to you that Jesus is the Christ; that Joseph Smith was called of God; the Book of Mormon is exactly what it claims to be; and that the church is lead today by revelation through living prophets.

    If Jesus Christ wants the church to change its doctrine concerning gays and women, then He will let us know and I will follow that change. Until then, I will support the current doctrine and not abandon my testimony because a bunch of intellectuals told me it is silly.

  • nycut New York, NY
    June 25, 2014 7:54 a.m.

    "Interesting" how so many commenters here are so comfortable singing in the condemnation chorus -- like the home audience of some TV talent show, ready to cast their "vote."

    There is no humility, honesty or kindness in passive-aggressively cooing that it's "sad" what "she brought on herself" -- while continuing to tear her down and patting yourselves on the back for your own "righteousness." "Don't I just know everything. Rah-rah, down with the rebellious woman. And isn't is 'sad' what she did."

    The world is watching so many Mormons actually celebrate the excommunication of one of their own. They see a people distressed by questions and dissent, a church so fragile it must thoroughly expunge all "threats" to its authority, and a portion of its members so self-important, uncharitable and judgmental as to deserve the unflattering stereotypes they so resent.

    That is the truly sad thing.

  • Meadow Lark Mark IDAHO FALLS, ID
    June 25, 2014 7:34 a.m.

    Perhaps some people forget that the LDS church is run from the top down, not from the bottom up. The prophet gets revelation from Jesus Christ, then the prophet tries to implement that in the church. The church is not a political organization where a group at the bottom can petition for changes in the church. Perhaps Ms. Kelly forgot that. Her attitude as expressed in these newspaper articles I find interesting--for it seems that she wants to do what SHE wants irregardless of anything else. If this life is a testing period where we are trying to be like the Savior then wouldn't we want to serve others and think of helping others rather than being so focused on our self? Just a thought.

  • Big Red '93 The High Plains of, Texas
    June 25, 2014 7:30 a.m.

    One cannot use the example of Joseph Smith to compare with Ms. Kelly's actions. Joseph Smith went to the woods to ask God 'which church was the right one'. He did not ask God to change any of them. In contrast, Ms. Kelly has asked that the church 'change its doctrine' to benefit her and her followers. A completely different scenario.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    June 25, 2014 7:25 a.m.

    Raising up an army of supporters may yield change in the real world, but it isn't how God's church is directed. By choosing to start a group of her own followers and by continuing to recruit people to her own cause, Kate Kelly walked down a dangerous path. Ultimately, when the time came she chose her own cause over church membership. She was certainly not the first to do so, and she probably won't be the last.

    That said, the door is open for Kate to return to church membership if she so desires. She knows the conditions that she must meet and it appears that she has caring leaders who are willing to work with her every step of the way. Here's hoping that she eventually chooses to do so. It can be especially difficult to acknowledge mistakes and change course when our decisions have been thrust in the public eye, but she wouldn't be the first to successfully do so. I wish the best to Kate in her efforts.

  • DeepintheHeart Lewisville, TX
    June 25, 2014 7:25 a.m.

    She was also told in the letter that she was to be honest in her accounts of talks with leaders. That seems to have been violated already. She also says to feminists, "Stay in the church," but she encourages them to do the exact same things that got her excommunicated. For a returned missionary, she remarkably garbled the description of "heaven" to imply to those unfamiliar with our teachings that the bishop had sent her and all non-members to hell. Again, intentional deception. She gives no reason why she thinks the disciplinary process is inherently unfair, but I suspect it is because no women sit on the council.

  • ImABeliever Provo, UT
    June 25, 2014 7:22 a.m.

    The very best thing for people to do is stop commenting. She loves the attention.
    Stop feeding the adversary and giving him credit. It is what you are doing.
    You noticed Church Headquarters hasn't said anything and they won't. This is a decision from local leaders

  • Geckojudo Billings, MT
    June 25, 2014 7:11 a.m.

    I think it is really a shame that the Priesthood is not better understood by Miss Kelly. If she truly understood the Priesthood, she would understand that all the work she does for the Lord every day is done by the authority of the Priesthood. Not holding the Priesthood is not a discrimination or a disservice to women at all. They are given the authority to use it all the time!

  • ysuire France , 00
    June 25, 2014 7:02 a.m.

    This story truly dazzles me. I don't understand why medias have given so much audience to her in the first place. If the church is true only when it doesn't hurt our personal misconceptions then the testimony is somewhat tainted by our ego. Even though I feel sorry for her excommunication I don't know what else could have happened. If she wants to be ordained she can go Anglican.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    June 25, 2014 6:40 a.m.

    Keep up the good work Kate. The discomfort you're causing the posters on the DN just indicates that you're making headway.

  • John Kateel Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2014 6:38 a.m.

    And she joins other pioneers such as Byron Marchant and Douglas C. Wallace. These two individuals were excommunicated for organizing others to rally against Church doctrine in 1977. The Church had all sorts of doctrinal reasons not to have blacks enter the Temple. The base way to accomplish this was to not allow them to hold the Priesthood in the first place. They rallied the NAACP who in turn rallied the Federal Government to yank the LDS Church tax exempt status if this were to continue. Thus, Prophet Spencer Kimball had a timely " revelation" to abruptly change course and blacks have been welcome ever since.

  • TA1 Alexandria, VA
    June 25, 2014 6:16 a.m.

    Normally I am often advocating for the liberal cause, but this is not a liberal verses conservative issue - it is more like wanting to play an established game such as football, baseball or soccer and say something like "yes - I want to play, but I want to write the rules". Doesn't work that way.

  • BoomerJeff Saint George, UT
    June 25, 2014 6:14 a.m.

    I'm confused about the comments here about "Kate's bishop saying she won't go to heaven", and people saying that's "garbage". I was taught baptism is the way to get to heaven. Excommunication erases her baptism. So why is the bishop's statement incorrect?

  • Moontan Roanoke, VA
    June 25, 2014 5:40 a.m.

    @Red Corvette ... re. "Martin Luther was excommunicated too. And look where that led." So far its led to 35,000+ Christian denominations, each worshiping one Christ and swearing by their own interpretation of scripture. 'Courage of convictions' is all well and good, and sounds awfully meritorious, but one would do well to have the right conviction to begin with.

  • scwoz gambier, oh
    June 25, 2014 5:33 a.m.

    She found the problem at the front of her statement. I am not going to change. How sad she can't see the opportunity to repent and follow that Testimony she claims to have or had is a better statement. You can act with all the dignity in the world if your Pride doesn't let you act in the way the Lord has asked you to act it doesn't matter in the slightest does it. Ask Saul, David, Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris, David Whitmer, I can go on but no need. They all acted in compassion and sincerity but they did not follow the Lord they claim to follow. You can't change God to meet your needs, God has asked us to change to meet him. Sorry your PRIDE has gotten in the way of your testimony and we will Love you all the way back to that testimony if you will let us. Don't give up on the basics, Read the scriptures, pray to God and then act in faith. You will return to your Father in Heaven.

  • mhenshaw Leesburg, VA
    June 25, 2014 5:07 a.m.

    >>I don't understand why this is such a big deal. The Mormon church is always changing. It will continue to change in the future.

    Of course the Church will change any many important ways in the future. Change will be necessary to accommodate an ever-growing, increasingly diverse membership. But there is an established, orderly system through which changes--whether doctrinal or merely programmatic--come so members can have the assurance that they're inspired by the Lord and the Church remains unified.

    Grass-roots agitation, protests on Temple Square, coalition building, and press releases aren't part of that system.

  • Gene Poole SLC, UT
    June 25, 2014 2:47 a.m.

    Maybe Sister Kelly is in a time warp. 15 minutes does not usually last over several editions of various publications. I find her chutzpah to continuously fabricate official commentary from Church leaders untenable. Her condescension of doctrine and holy covenants that she must have at one time considered to be sacred is indicative to me of her turning from the Spirit she has often stated was guiding her path. She is also aware, as a knowledgable woman of manipulation techniques, that her continuous disparagement of the Gospel and the Church leaders will not placate the men and women who have hoped she would listen to the counsel of the Brethren. After appraising her commentary, I have come to the conclusion that she is truly manifesting ego above humility. The Church "Court" system is one of love and gentle support - even when faced with members who are bent on rebellion. Sadly, I support her choices. I do not condone them and I also know that a war was fought to give her the right to walk away and create her own time warp. I send you peace, sister. I am not your judge. I am your brother.

  • rdahl Shelley, ID
    June 25, 2014 2:15 a.m.

    Joseph Smith left the church of his family and started his own as he was told to do. Now we have The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Martin Luther left his church and started the Lutheran church. These are just two examples of someone not believing in what they are being taught by whichever religion they belonged to. They did not just go against their leaders demanding that they "Get with the times". They formed their own religions based on what they believed.
    Notice that the first one is not The Church of Joseph Smith. Why? Because the Head of the Church is Jesus Christ. All revelation for the Church as a whole comes from Him. Others in the past have broken off because they did not believe what was being taught; Reorganized LDS, Fundamentalist LDS, Church of Christ.
    What Ms Kelley failed to realize is that the Church's doctrine does not come from the current Prophet at any given time, but from Jesus Christ Himself. Ms Kelley is basically stating that Jesus does not know how to run His own Church and that she can do it better.

  • rdahl Shelley, ID
    June 25, 2014 1:58 a.m.

    Midvalien; As a non member this is interesting to me in the fact that Joesph Smith had personal revelation and a personal testimony of Jesus, which started the whole church. Now flash forward to the present time and the same behavior is frowned upon, so much so that you are excommunicated.
    Yes, Joseph Smith had a personal testimony of Jesus Christ. He SAW the Father and Jesus and received revelation for the entire Church. This woman DID NOT receive revelation for the entire Church but followed her own whim so you statement is without merit. And as for personal opinion, go to ANY other church and express your opinion contrary to what they teach and see what happens. If this woman believed that the Church was true, she would not question what is taught but would instead have accepted the doctrine as it is. You cannot pick and choose what to doctrine to follow.

  • OC Fan Orange County, CA
    June 25, 2014 12:15 a.m.

    Peggy Fletcher Stack wrote in the Tribune that "The LDS leaders thought that if they cut her off, she said, the movement would die."

    Her lack of any support whatsoever for her own conclusion demonstrates not only bad journalism but also a lack of insight into the thought processes of, Church leadership.

    No one who's watched this media-seeking movement would think such idiocy. The statement is consistent with the misinformation coming from OW.

  • Surfs Up Huntington Beach, CA
    June 24, 2014 11:39 p.m.

    I think she should start her own church! She could be bishop and kristi Boyce could be her first counselor. No but seriously she seems like she needs power and attention and I wish her the best.

  • dviall GALES FERRY, CT
    June 24, 2014 11:38 p.m.

    "..and this to shall pass". It really amazes me when members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints want the presiding authorities to change doctrine. If she really had a testimony, she would understand the doctrine of the priesthood. This is not the first time or will it probably not be the last time that something of this nature is put before the brethren. The leadership of the church will do like they have done in the past, leave alone and eventually it goes away. I feel bad for Ms Kelly and hope that at some point she will understand the true meaning and purpose of the priesthood.

  • rockstarTS Lehi, UT
    June 24, 2014 10:55 p.m.

    OK, my turn. I want to address the other objective of the Ordain Women movement, which is "seeking equality". Everyone knows this is bologna, right? In the LDS church women or treated far better than the men are so why are they seeking equality? For example, the women's Relief Society rooms in all churches are carpeted, with nice decorations and soft chairs. Whereas men sit on hard chairs anywhere there is space left over, usually in the gym or up on the church's stage behind the curtain (next to props that must be at least 20 years old). I always say, if churches had dungeons, that's where the Elders Quorum would meet! Did I mention men's chairs with no cushioning? Women are also given a "Mother's Room" where women can go to comfort fussy children (more soft chairs). Ahem...there's no Father's room when its our turn to calm down the urchins! We just have to wander the halls aimlessly. What about helping families move in? Nope, it's the men's responsible. Same goes for most all physical service projects. Lastly, women have 4 major, church-funded activities per year. Men have only one. :)

  • Aggie5 Kuna, ID
    June 24, 2014 10:52 p.m.

    Here's the other side of the story. When I see all the photos of this person in these articles, it's makes ya wonder exactly what is her true intent. I see extreme drama.

  • Hatch Sandy, UT
    June 24, 2014 10:40 p.m.

    She obviously has many talents and is very bright. What a waste.

  • David Mohr Victoria/BC/Canada, 00
    June 24, 2014 10:28 p.m.

    Midvaleian I invite you to contact the missionaries in your area or the church in your area to get your questions answered. I would love to try to answer you but 1. this is not the format for that as it is too easy to misunderstand on both sides. 2. I am not an authority although a faithful member. It is not my position to answer your questions as there are people near you who are delegated to do so. 3. Directly talking to leaders/missionaries in your area allows the discussions to take place at a time and place that both sides can be available for and can be comfortable with. I pray that you contact local people and that you get answers to your questions. I will leave you with this....Martin Luther said that Doubt is the basis of Faith because it is your doubts that bring your questions and through your questions you can grow. If you cannot find anyone to answer your questions then feel free to contact me and I will do what I can to help.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 24, 2014 10:28 p.m.

    she is a faithful believing member ....but she rejects the words of the prophets and apostles?
    Hmmm ...I think Kate is a bit confused as to what the terms "faithful" and "believing" actually mean. Kate wants a pick and choose religion and there are plenty out there for her...just not the LDS church.

  • Pac_Man Pittsburgh, PA
    June 24, 2014 10:22 p.m.

    "Martin Luther was excommunicated too. And look where that led. Courage of conviction is far more important than blind faith."

    ...or she could return like Oliver Cowdery and Thomas B. Marsh.

  • keepamericafree salt lake, UT
    June 24, 2014 10:19 p.m.

    It is sad that the general public as well as these ordain women founders are so confused about what the priesthood is and what it means. The priesthood is not a position of control or domination, it is a position of humble servitude. It is a responsibility and an obligation. Christ used the power of the priesthood to bless and heal the blind and the deaf and to raise the dead. Christ was a Servant! So the reality is that the priesthood is about service. Kelly is confused and what is more unfortunate is that she is misleading many with her campaign to disparage and demonize the church.

  • keepamericafree salt lake, UT
    June 24, 2014 10:17 p.m.

    If God wanted men and women to be exactly the same, then God would have just created one sex and called it good.

    But God knew there needed to be two. A woman and a man. In the eyes of God, men and women are both equal. But they are unique because they have unique jobs to do. However, no job is considered any lesser or greater than another. We all serve and we all have a role to play which serves the same goal and the same purpose.

    The world may try and pervert these truths and try and make women feel bad about their roles, but that is their problem. Gods view never changes. He loves us all and like every loving father. He wants what is best for us.

    God will not change his plan to suit a few angry women. You can choose to follow him or you can choose your own path.

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    June 24, 2014 10:15 p.m.

    For being a lawyer, and giving the general impression that she is bright, she has already been caught in several lies. Maybe she should hire a lawyer, but who would take the case? This woman is a whiner.

  • ericNorCal San Jose, CA
    June 24, 2014 10:12 p.m.

    Midvaliean, she did more than just express her opinion, she actively sought followers to join her - there is a difference. As far as the words of previous prophets is concerned, not every word that falls from the lips of a prophet is considered "prophetic". They are people with imperfections and opinions too, but I think you will find that any doctrinal truth is unchanging.

  • MurrayGuy Murray, UT
    June 24, 2014 10:07 p.m.

    I am sure with her Bishopric knowing the media firestorm she has stirred up, they would not go about telling her "she would not go to Heaven" this woman is so full of garbage I have gone beyond feeling any kind of pity and am disgusted that she is now resorting to bald faced lies to stay in the press.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    June 24, 2014 10:04 p.m.

    She knew this would happen. It was all staged to draw national attention to herself and her "cause."

    Next stop...a book then maybe a movie! Hey, why not make money on the publicity.

    I wish the media wouldn't give her any more attention. DN: We've heard enough! God above is watching. That is the most important factor!

  • bj-hp Maryville, MO
    June 24, 2014 10:02 p.m.

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is led by a living Prophet who answers to only one person, the Lord Jesus Christ. If and when the priesthood is to be given to women, which I highly doubt as it has never been conferred on woman since the time of Adam until now. Joseph Smith received revelations pertaining to how the Church of Jesus Christ was to be organized and who was to receive the Priesthood. Today that same organization stands as a light on a hill. This distraction will not hinder the Church of Jesus Christ from fulfilling its mission.

    Today the man who receives revelation as to how the Church of Jesus Christ is to be led is President Thomas S. Monson. Ms Kelly has decided that she knows better than the prophet who is called of God to run and lead his Church. The other members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve receive revelations also but when it comes to the Church only Thomas S Monson receives that, not Ms. Kelly, not I or any other person. So when ELder Oaks spoke on the Priesthood he spoke as directed by the spirit.

  • Payito American Fork, UT
    June 24, 2014 9:45 p.m.

    Of course she is not going to change. Look at all the attention and publicity she is getting. She doesn't want to give up her moment in the sun. But soon the moment will end and bitterness will take it's place. We've seen this cycle many times before.

  • Adela Cruz Patchogue, NY
    June 24, 2014 9:38 p.m.

    Part 1-All i can said is that I'm not in a position to judge her, but, as a member of the church and as a Daughter of God, I'm willingly submit my self to His will, I rejoice in the womanhood and in the more sacred calling on earth, motherhood, I rejoice in the protection of the Priesthood and so grateful for every one of them, all those who honor their priesthood with righteousness

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 24, 2014 9:32 p.m.

    I hope that in serious situations like this, we are quick to be kind and slow to judge. There is no need to lash out with insulting comments.

    A member being excommunicated, though in the best interest of the individual, is never an occasion to rejoice.

    The worth of every soul is great in the sight of God.

  • Church member North Salt Lake, UT
    June 24, 2014 9:25 p.m.

    I don't understand why this is such a big deal. The Mormon church is always changing. It will continue to change in the future. If Joseph Smith were to see the church today he would not recognize it. But I do feel bad for the church because they are in a tough position. If they don't change their doctrines on Gays and Women then they will continue to get mocked, made fun of, and educated people will continue to not join the church. If they do change these two doctrines the current members will have a crisis of faith. It doesn't seem like they can win.

    My guess is they will change these two doctrines in the next 30 years or their numbers will continue to drop. Can you imagine how many members there would be today if they hadn't changed their minds on polygamy and african americans and the priesthood.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    June 24, 2014 9:23 p.m.

    I wonder what Ordain Women would say if I tried to change a piece of core doctrine that they happen to agree with? Let's just pick baptism, for example. Would they call for me to be excommunicated?

  • Pac_Man Pittsburgh, PA
    June 24, 2014 9:19 p.m.

    @Hutterite

    I don't think people expect her to go away. No doubt she will continue to impose change on an organization led by people she no longer sustains.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 24, 2014 9:18 p.m.

    "As a non member this is interesting to me in the fact that Joesph Smith had personal revelation and a personal testimony of Jesus, which started the whole church. Now flash forward to the present time and the same behavior is frowned upon, so much so that you are excommunicated."

    It's not that seeking revelation is frowned upon; we're all encouraged to seek revelation. However, we have our stewardship and responsibility. It's that Kate Kelly sought revelation for the whole church, when that's not her place. Only the prophet of God has the authority to receive revelation for the entire church.

    Imagine if you had a tough decision to make concerning job offers and you pray and receive revelation about which job is the one God wants for you. Then a neighbor says he prayed for you and got a different answer for you. Unless that guy is your ecclesiastical leader, he does not have stewardship over you and your job circumstance (I've never heard of a bishop telling a member of the church which job to take).

    Kate Kelly believes that women should be ordained priesthood holders, while God told the prophet no.

  • Levin Reno, NV
    June 24, 2014 9:12 p.m.

    Come on, folks. Your snipes and potshots at Sister Kelly's testimony are not contributing to civilized discourse. While I disagree with her publicly stated position and her public tactics, not a one of us can say what is in her heart. What we're doing here is the kind of judgment Jesus commanded us not to engage in. Indeed, by jabbing at another person we are showing that we are the ones who literally know nothing about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    June 24, 2014 9:10 p.m.

    Mrs Kelly stated her belief that the action taken for her behavior "discriminates against women". If a male Church member did what Mrs Kelly did, he would be excommunicated forth-with the same as she was - so how is that discrimination against women?

    It appears to me that Mrs Kelly is not only being disingenuous about her choices but she has an ax to grind. Time to move on Mrs Kelly - there are many of us who hope you can find it in your heart to repent for your harmful actions and return to the fold some day.

  • mhenshaw Leesburg, VA
    June 24, 2014 9:05 p.m.

    >>Now flash forward to the present time and the same behavior is frowned upon, so much so that you are excommunicated.

    But after receiving that revelation, Joseph Smith didn't go back to the church his family attended, organize protests, and push for it to change its doctrine to match his beliefs. Had he been an actual member of that church and done such a thing, they would have excommunicated him. Instead, he stood apart and organized a separate church to teach those beliefs.

    As Ms. Kelly's bishop and many others have explained, there's nothing wrong with asking questions. But Ms. Kelly's actions suggest that she wasn't asking questions. Rather, her actions suggest that she thought she already had the answer and was determined to make the church embrace her view.

  • Chessermesser West Valley City, UT
    June 24, 2014 8:59 p.m.

    I feel sorry that she is playing this game. I mean, acting surprised at being turned away at the Conference Center and acting the same way when she lost her membership. She is not that naive.

    The Gospel is not a cafeteria, where you get to pick which foods you want to believe or obey.

    Hopefully she will follow the bishop's advice and stop "counseling The Lord."

  • Jim Mesa, Az
    June 24, 2014 8:58 p.m.

    The sad thing here is that the Church keeps disciplinary councils confidential. Whereas Kelly has made it public and increased her 15 minutes of fame. There will have to be a huge mind shift from her if she is going to return back to the Church in 12 months time. Her appeal to the First Presidency I dare say will have the same results of that of Thomas B Marsh. Unfortunately she believes that she has the right to put forth her hand and steady the ark. Whereas the ark doesn't need to be steadied.

  • Janet Ontario, OR
    June 24, 2014 8:46 p.m.

    In other news, Pope Francis has said that all Mafiosi are excommunicated. Good for him! But how would you like to be the parish priest who tells a member of the Mafia that he can't take communion?

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    June 24, 2014 8:44 p.m.

    I believe we can all be different in our desires to serve. I wouldn't desire to serve in a "Priesthood" or clergy, but some women do and they can in some religions. So, maybe that is where these women need to turn.

    Galatians 3:28
    There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 24, 2014 8:36 p.m.

    Midvaliean

    "... just seems like this had multiple outcomes but this one was forced."

    You nailed it, it was forced by the actions of Ms. Kelly. By her own letter submitted along with 1000 others her situation had become a protest and a demand and was no longer a doctrinal question.

    Here are the beginning and ending paragraphs of her letter submitted to the bishopric as her defense...

    "Brethren, I want you to know from the outset that I do not take this process lightly. I beg of you not to impose any form of discipline during the trial you will hold on Sunday. I also request that you do the right thing and revoke the “informal probation” that was placed upon me and remove the “move restriction” placed on my records so that I can participate in the ward where I currently reside. Please reconsider this punitive process and allow me to continue to worship in
    peace.!

    … Again, I ask you to choose “no action,” revoke the “informal probation” that was placed upon me and remove the “move restriction” on my records so that I can participate in my current ward.!

    Obviously not a plea for leniency. Demand maybe?

  • MEl Cahoon Lehi, UT
    June 24, 2014 8:34 p.m.

    The thing that kills me is she never did ask "ask the hard questions" all she tried to do is bully the church and get her name in the media. Now I cant stand her playing the victim card. She said she didnt think she would be excommunicated, so she us either dense, a moron, or I have to question just how active in the church she was.

  • Bill Shakespeare Salt Lake City, UT
    June 24, 2014 8:31 p.m.

    My only question is: When will she start performing baptisms for her new, enlightened, modern church, so I can be baptized.

  • Globetrecker Arlington, va
    June 24, 2014 8:23 p.m.

    Popular LDS blogger, Middle Aged Mormon Man, posted this (excellent): Over the past 24 hours, the Ordain Women has succeeded in doing what Satan hopes to accomplish on his best day: Destroying eternal families.

    Social Media is filled with people stating their intentions to walk away from their faith, their beliefs, & their covenants, as they protest what they see as injustice. And as they do, they walk away from the Savior, and from their families.

    To the parents, children of spouses who are suffering as they watch their loved ones make such crucial decisions as to put their eternities in jeopardy, I quote Elder Oaks:

    “This sobering teaching reminds us that when family members are not united in striving to keep the commandments of God, there will be divisions. We do all that we can to avoid impairing loving relationships, but sometimes it happens after all we can do.

    In the midst of such stress, we must endure the reality that the straying of our loved ones will detract from our happiness, but it should not detract from our love for one another or our patient efforts to be united in understanding God’s love and God’s laws.”

  • antodav TAMPA, FL
    June 24, 2014 8:14 p.m.

    They took away my membership but they can't take away my testimony."

    Testimony? WHAT testimony? Testimony of what, exactly? Certainly not of the Priesthood. Certainly not of divine revelation, of the calling of the General Authorities as prophets, seers, and revelators, of the temple endowment, or of pretty much anything else that allows one to call oneself a believing, faithful member of the Church.

    Also, her understanding of doctrine, as illustrated by her final comment, is ATROCIOUS. Wow. This woman literally knows nothing about the Plan of Salvation or the Gospel of Jesus Christ, let alone having a testimony, if she even knows what one is.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    June 24, 2014 8:10 p.m.

    Nor should she. The church has the right to be as arcane and backward as it wants and chooses to be. It also has the right to punt her if she won't play by their rules. The church, on the other hand, has no right to expect she will go away or that their actions and doctrines will go unexamined.

  • Unbiased1979 dallas, TX
    June 24, 2014 8:09 p.m.

    "They can take away my membership, but not my testimony..." Hmmm. Obviously she is not talking about the testimony that the church led by a Prophet of God, or that the fullness of the gospel is on the earth, or that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church and leads it through His Prophets and Apostles.

    This woman is either very confused or is an expert in manipulation and rationalization. She thinks asking "tough questions" equates to calling on the Prophet to change doctrine. She thinks that "faith building" is claiming that women should have the priesthood, which is contrary to the teaching of the church, which in turn suggests the brethren are NOT acting under the direction of God.

    If her testimony is premised on the notion that the brethren aren't acting in accordance with God's will, what exactly does she have a testimony of????? I don't mean to judge, but she really seems like she just wants attention. And thus concludes my rant....

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:37 p.m.

    The actions by the church indicate there is no room for personal opinion in the church, at least not opinions that are openly expressed.

    Many of the past prophets (Such as Joseph F Smith) have had much of what they said now is considered opinion of a man of his times.

    What is the difference? I'm genuinely interested.

  • cindyacre Shelley, ID
    June 24, 2014 7:37 p.m.

    As LDS I understand that the authority and power to act in the name of Christ comes from Christ. And He it is who calls his administrators. I do not feel deprived in any way not to hold priesthood office, authority or power because I recognize that I still receive all the blessings, mercies and power of the keys of the priesthood - as all do. A priesthood leader's faith and behavior regarding the awesome nature of responsibilities in the service of the Lord is reflected in the ability to exercise the priesthood.

    I am grateful for so many worthy priesthood holders who are a great example to me, a recipient of those blessings and I have the same responsibility of faith and behavior to receive them. I also recognize that personal revelation from God requires that same faith and action for all, without office or station. I recall the story of Rebecca who asked God in faith for information concerning her unborn and the specific direction she received concerning them. That faith in God and in His direction is priceless.

  • Mareao Bountiful, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:35 p.m.

    From the beginning she has been angling for church headquarters involvement. She has twisted the truth, stating her local leaders refused to engage her in discussion on this matter. Rather than engage local leaders at a disciplinary council, she organized a vigil outside church headquarters. This has not been about "hard questions" or a search for answers. It has always been about trying to force either change or embarassment on church leadership. She's not stupid. She knew how this was going to end.

    Here's the part I don't get; When you don't believe in the doctrine, why try to change an entire religion instead of just moving on?

  • Light and Liberty St. George/Washington, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:34 p.m.

    No doubt Ordain Women will be endorsing and espousing a whole host of 'truths' to amuse us in the years to come!

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:30 p.m.

    As a non member this is interesting to me in the fact that Joesph Smith had personal revelation and a personal testimony of Jesus, which started the whole church. Now flash forward to the present time and the same behavior is frowned upon, so much so that you are excommunicated.

    It did also seem that the accusers were too close to the situation and it should have been handled by people not involved at all.

    I understand the church needs to protect its dogma, just seems like this had multiple outcomes but this one was forced.

  • Hockey Fan Miles City, MT
    June 24, 2014 7:30 p.m.

    She appears to have drawn her own line in the sand, and her decision places her outside of the Church. That's called agency.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:29 p.m.

    I wonder which part of Mormonism she actually believes in?

    It seems to me that Mormonism is something that you can't just accept "part" of. Sure, many Mormons don't do everything they should be doing, but how many of them campaign for abolishment of the "word of wisdom" for instance?

    Mormons believe they have a prophet on earth, ergo - anything the church does is condoned/sanctioned/dictated by THAT prophet. NOT political whimsy.

    She should start her own church. However I don't think she really wants that, rather I think she wants a continuing forum where she can rant!

    In other words - how can she say the church is "true" - while at the same time saying its' not?

  • Aggie5 Kuna, ID
    June 24, 2014 7:23 p.m.

    There's a trend in these actions.

  • mattrick78 Cedar City, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:22 p.m.

    Its like watching a movie you have never seen before, but you still know what is going to happen next.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:15 p.m.

    Is anyone surprised, I'm not surprised.

    And down the merry 'road' she will go to kick against the church and the leadership she proclaims to love and wants to be.

    It's laughable and sad at the same time.

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:13 p.m.

    So it begins, the dance with the devil so to speak. Ms Kelly is about to find out what it is like not to have the companionship of the Holy Spirit in her life. She will find out that things which she thinks are absolutely true are only the words of the adversary who now has complete access to her. She has defiled her temple covenants, and, through pride, she refused to listen to the counsel of her Church leaders. It is very obvious that she has already begun to twist things among which is that she said that her bishop told her she can't go to heaven. She knows better, yet she seeks more and more media attention at the expense of the Church. She is on a path from which there is no return if she keeps doing what she is doing. I hope that the others who are following her will realize that they have been deceived and become useful members of the Church once again. This is not a plea for answer to "hard questions" as she so flagrantly flaunted. This is out and out rebellion against a doctrine of the Church.

  • truth in all its forms henderson, NV
    June 24, 2014 7:05 p.m.

    "They took away my membership but they can't take away my testimony." No you turned away from your testimony by repeatedly rebelling against the council of your local leaders.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    June 24, 2014 7:04 p.m.

    I find it interesting that she states "She also told reporters Tuesday that her bishop and his counselors believe she will not go to heaven". She has no evidence that this was indeed what they stated and that the letter only states what is necessary to once again recieve the blessings of full membership. The LDS church does not preach such doctrine nor will they condone it. Sure, no once can say for sure whether or not it was stated so, let's just keep it to the facts. She will be the only one to make comments on this matter (her opinion along with the letter), the church and it's leadership will not over turn any appeal she makes. It is sad when believers waver from the fundamental values that have never changed for thousands of years. Today's society wants the change but the LDS church does not cave into society.

  • Sambonethegreat Salt Lake City, UT
    June 24, 2014 6:55 p.m.

    I wish she would give it a rest. She's been disingenuous at best and duplicitous at worst about how she has been treated by the church. They've been extremely patient with her.

    If she truly had a testimony like she claims she does, she wouldn't have gone out of her way to repeatedly and consistently drag the image of the church through the mud. Challenging the first presidency on a core doctrinal issue is obviously grounds for excommunication.

    Besides, I would be legitimately stunned if she couldn't see the irony in trying to undermine the very authority she wants so badly.

  • slcdenizen Murray, UT
    June 24, 2014 6:54 p.m.

    @David Mohr

    Objectively, she has a point. The case rests on whether Emma Smith was granted the priesthood by her husband. If that happened, then subsequent refusal to grant women the priesthood is a sign that divine channels may not be so clear. If she was not given the priesthood, then a sincere effort should be made by the church to set the record straight and confront the historicity to the contrary.

  • theOtter Lafayette, IN
    June 24, 2014 6:39 p.m.

    …and that would be why she was excommunicated. :-(

  • David Mohr Victoria/BC/Canada, 00
    June 24, 2014 6:37 p.m.

    She strikes me as someone who has decided to play hockey but refuses to use the established rules. That then raises the question of why she wants to play the game in the first place. Women has not only access to priesthood power but have used the priesthood power throughout the history of the church. Watch the movie "17 Miracles", written by a man, produced by a man and showing women using the power of the priesthood. The power is there to be used. Ordination does not change the fact that women and men share the priesthood. Ordination simply gives me a specific set of duties to perform as laid out by the Saviour. It is unfortunate that she persists in telling the church how things need to be and that she continues to do this through the media - especially when the media has never been the ruling body of the church but of society - assuming they are a ruling body.