Comments about ‘Ordain Women releases LDS bishop's letter giving reasons for Kelly's excommunication’

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Published: Monday, June 23 2014 3:40 p.m. MDT

Updated: Monday, June 23 2014 10:39 p.m. MDT

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BCA
Murrieta, CA

I am surprised the DN put this letter on the website. I don't understand the rationale, given these things are to remain private. The fact that one side made them public or "everyone else" is doing it, would not seem to be a valid reason. When we think of all the things DN will not but on here, this one surprises me.

TheProudDuck
Newport Beach, CA

The excommunication doesn't concern me terribly. The Church needs to maintain boundaries, and I think it can reasonably say one has been crossed when you form a formal group to enlist the aid of outsiders to put pressure on the Church.

What troubles me is are so many of the comments, whose theme is that mere disobedience of ecclesiastical leaders is grounds for excommunication. By that standard, the Apostle Paul should have been excommunicated for disobedience to Peter (who had it coming).

Almost ye persuade me to be a Protestant. (Except those guys have baggage of their own.) To have a disciple's heart is one thing. Servility is another.

Prophets are only prophets when they are acting as such. To analogize, if the LDS Church ever did something as horrendous as the Presbyterian Church, USA just did -- voting to boycott certain companies doing business with Israel, based in part on a church-issued document using language originating with the venomous anti-Semite David Duke, I would have no choice but to oppose it, loudly and publicly, let the consequence follow.

bj-hp
Maryville, MO

Proud Duck: She didn't just show disobedience to her leaders. She basically ignored everything they counselled her on. When asked not to do something and what the answer would be she went against that. When informed of the fact she was having a disciplinary council she went to the media. When she received this letter by email she again went before the media. All the facts spell out complete and total contempt for everything the priesthood stands for. Everything has been her own choice and she is being excommunicated for those choices. She went out and proselyted to get others to enter into her organization. She is no different than any of the apostates in the early Church and the ones mentioned in the Bible and Book of Mormon. In each of those cases the individual either repented or their names were blotted out. This has happened here by men called of God to be common judges in the House of Israel. In other parts of this case the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has remained above board with Ms. Kelly. It is now in her hands as is her eternal progression.

JohnMill
Australia, 00

If Ms Kelly is genuinely seeking to have her questions answered she must be prepared to listen and accept the answers when they are given.
It is clear that the only answer she was prepared to accept was the one she has already determined herself.
Sadly it is not Ms Kelly's place to receive revelation for the Church, nor to dictate to the governing councils of the Church.
No man (or woman) taketh this honour unto themselves except he that is called of Gaod as was Aaron.
There is only one person on the earth who possesses and is authorised to exercise all priesthood keys - including to whom priesthood is extended. Sorry, Ms Kelly but that person is not you.
Finally, you are lucky that what happened to you is a far better result than what happened to Korah who similarly made demands for authority he was not entitled to and stirred up others to support him.

John McLaverty
UK, 00

This issue has raised some attention internationally, and as a UK citizen I was surprised to see the decision letter published. This appears to have been at the request of Ordain Women, would the other party to the private correspondence i.e. the ward bishop, have been asked his view about its publication?

BYU Fan in DC
Washington, DC

As someone who know Kate (both in Provo and DC), I think she had good intentions and was able to get her message across about the desire for Women to hold the priesthood. I think the first attempt to enter priesthood session showed that. However, it appears that she loved the idea of a church where women hold the priesthood more than the LDS church which does not. Sorry to say, but this would have to be the truth considering she doesn't plan to change her stance. Honestly, if she wants to hold an authority like the priesthood, I believe the Unitarian Church has a very nice prophetess who is also Lesbian. Their beliefs are not very doctrinally set (barely read the bible), but they do include everyone and you can walk in on Sunday in shorts and a tanktop.

Rural sport fan
DUCHESNE, UT

It is odd how a person can profess to value and want a position of supposed authority, and yet refuse to acknowledge or accept it's authority concerning her and her ideas.
She obsessed over ask and ye shall receive, while totally rejecting live by the words of the prophets. Sorry, but it's Gods plan, God's church, if you don't accept that, then you are putting your own views over God's. She could have remained a member forever if she had kept praying about it on her own, the problem was, she actively lobbied others to her cause, publicly trying to get popular opinion to sway the leaders of the church, as if God would accede to the demands if the mob.
That's the problem. You can't expect God to do a deal with you, just because you make noise.

TheProudDuck
Newport Beach, CA

"She didn't just show disobedience to her leaders. She basically ignored everything they counselled her on."

Which is to say, she disobeyed them.

Counsel is counsel and orders are orders. If you ignore "counsel" -- the recommendations of someone like your lawyer or therapist -- you act at your own peril, and if the counsel turns out to have been good, you may be worse off for it. But counselors don't punish you for ignoring them.

If you are punished for "ignoring counsel," then it's not really counsel. It's an order.

You are saying that it's proper to excommunicate someone for disobeying orders.

TheProudDuck
Newport Beach, CA

"...as if God would accede to the demands if the mob."

God doesn't accede to mobs. The federal government, maybe, but mobs, no.

Linda S.
Orem, Utah

I read with interest the letter,however I felt uncomfortable doing so. I find it sad - not just the excumunication of Sis. Kelly - but sad that something so private and so sacred to those directly involved needed to be publically published - even by the Deseret News itself. I felt guilty reading it. To me it was akin to reading the patriarchal blessing of another individual. However, since some of the local media have distorted the story and the facts of the story, I can understand the church - through Deseret News seeing the necessity of publishing the letter - which had all ready been released by Sis. Kelly - to uphold the integrity of the church. Yes, it is obvious that the bishop carefully worded the letter knowing it would most likely be publically released.

brightness
Taylorsville, UT

We are all God's children, he does not discriminate, Ms Kelley was practicing "freedom of speech", irregardless God loves her and all of us.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

Wow - this letter gives Kelly every opportunity to stop her recruitment efforts and teaching others her "Six Discussions" as well as bring down her web site. I thought it was interesting that she was excommunicated NOT for having views which didn't align with Church teachings but instead she was excommunicated for her active recruitment efforts. For those who blast the church for not allowing members another point of view - you are wrong. You are allowed your own point of view you just can't actively recruit others to that point of view because that crosses the line into destroying the Church as a whole. So Kelly was being dishonest when she indicated publically that she just wanted to be heard - she not only wanted to be heard she wanted others to hear her and follow her and she sought them out and advertised which is a horse of a different color altogether. In politics you create change by getting a following for your cause but not so with the Church of Jesus Christ...not today and not during the time of Jesus. In the end the door was left open for her...

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

at the end of the day the Church will move on with or without Kate Kelly it is her choice. Years will pass and like Sonia Johnson of years past Kelly will either become more bitter OR perhaps she will reverse course and see the big picture and repent....and return. Let's hope for the latter. The Prophet Joseph Smith once said that even many of the elect of the church will be deceived and fight against the church. The elect have been leaving since the days of Thomas Marsh and others only to return years later humbled and broken having suffered the loss of the Spirit for their actions. The church - like the Savior - ALWAYS extends a hand to help us return if we humble ourselves as a little child.

sukiyhtaky
us, CA

As an nonmember, it seems rather obvious to me that Ms Kelly has a personal agenda in all of this and no real interest in changing doctrine. If she had a true love of the church and desire to hold the priesthood which she has professed, especially when there are photographers and crowds around, this great desire to hold the priesthood would have ignited a chord of respect in her when she received the letter regarding the disciplinary meeting or when the bishop tried unsuccesfully to meet with her. That lack of respect of the office shows she has no real regards for the office and only the attention the movement brings her. Besides how could you be a good priesthood leader when you show such disregard for one of the most serious tasks they have to perform? Might I suggest a move to Nigeria where she might be ablt to use her experience as a human rights attorney to help the kidnapped children rather than seeking glory for herself as the person who toppled LDS doctrine on women and the priesthood.

erichard
COMANCHE, TX

The LDS leadership seem to teach that THEY are the law the church is to live by. But the D&C says the revelations in IT are the law the church is to live by. The LDS leadership fight any attempt of members to claim the right to legitimately have a controversy over them and their decisions. But D&C 107:81-84 gives instructions on how to have a special Bishop's trial over the President of the church, or one of his counselors-- saying this special trial will be the end of controversy over the matter. JST Mark 9:40-48 unfolds the mystery of one of Christ's parables: Every member of the body of Christ must accept the responsibility to "stand or fall" for themselves and not for another. This means if a brother, a leader or even the Prophet fail they must not fall with them. Kelly should not seek to make decisions for the church leadership. She was not called to do that. But she can seek to claim the right of legitimate dissent based on the scriptures I quoted.

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