What is the mission of BYU as a school?With Texas announcing that
they will pay athletes. Can anyone honestly say that BYU will do the same?That in itself is why BYU will never compete or be on the level for a P5
invite. Its reality.And its a bummer that college athletics is going
down this road. There are some schools with profitable athletic departments,
some that do not and will be propped up by schools. And yet there will be some
that will not pay and either fold sports or step back from P5 status. Yes I
think thats inevitable. Yes BYU does have a profitable athletic
department. I just don't see them paying athletes and getting involved in
that mess. Again I ask, what is the mission of the school?
redthunderAverage MWC finish during the Bronco/Kyle era:BYU 2.0Utah 2.6MWC ChampionshipsBYU 2Utah
1btw, TCU routinely ate Utah's lunch, so stop trying to
piggy-back off of TCU's success.
There are too many negatives about BYU for BYU to be invited to join a major
It seems just yesterday that BYU was bragging about how great their independence
was. After last weeks game, it just shows they are not good enough for a major
conference. They are alway too inconsistent and do not have the killer instinct
needed to be champions.
Tomahawk RedLOL at your hilarious spin:"[BYU has:]
Lost 5 of the last 8 to Washington"BYU is 4-5 versus Washington;
Utah is 0-8."[BYU has:] Lost 8 of the last 12 to bottom-dweller
Colorado.BYU has won 3 of the last 4 versus Colorado and hasn't
lost to the Buffaloes since a 7-9 set back at Colorado in 1947; Utah lost to the
10-loss Buffaloes in 2011."[BYU has:] Lost 7 of the last 9 to
UCLA (another team you nearly NEVER beat)"BYU is 2-1 versus UCLA
during the Bronco era and beat the Bruins 59-0 in their last meeting; Utah is
2-3 versus UCLA during the Kyle era and lost 27-34 at home to the Bruins in
The Big 12 will expand when it becomes obvious that the championship selection
committee has penalized their top team(s) for not having played that one
additional top SOS game: a conference championship. Until then it is all about
sharing revenue among fewer teams. Seems awfully short-sighted to me, but that
will change in about a year. Until then, just win, baby.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WIAs for your claim that BYU is
better versus the Pac8/10/12...BYU has:-Lost 8 of the
last 13 to Arizona-Lost an ABYSMAL 20 of the last 25 games to ASU-Lost 8 of the last 12 to bottom-dweller Colorado-Has NEVER beaten
USC-Has NEVER beaten Stanford (want some advice on that one?)-Lost 7
of the last 9 to UCLA (another team you nearly NEVER beat)-Lost 5 of the
last 8 to WashingtonAnd its record against the rest of the Pac 12 is
mediocre, at best.Utah has lost more games to Pac 12 teams than BYU
has because Utah has played far more games against Pac 12 teams than BYU has.The same reason BYU has lost to WCC teams more than Utah has.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WII concede that BYU has lost four in
a row to Utah. If that fact alone makes you the better team than you have to
admit inferiority to Colorado State, Houston, and Hawaii (each of which have
recent win streaks of 4 or more against Utah). ---------Maybe you should do some research before you make ridiculous smack claims.
Utah has beaten Colorado State five times in a row, last losing in 2005.Of course, you MAY be referring to a losing streak at SOME POINT in the
last 50 years. And if that's the case it might be the lamest smack
I've ever heard. "You guys lost five straight to CSU... 12 years
ago!"Utah lost six straight to Hawaii... 23 years ago. Utah has
never beaten Houston, last playing in... 1978.Wow that sounds great
don't it? And it's so relevant to today's Utes too. LOL!
That's a reach on smack talk if I've ever heard it.Utah
lost five straight to CSU between 1998-2002. Yes, the Rams were better than Utah
back then. Just like Utah is better than BYU right now.
Thank you for making my point for me. I said nothing about BYU competing in the
PAC12 and/or speculated about BYU's possible success or lack thereof in
that conference. I did clearly show that head-to-head might not
mean as much as Ute fans claim and insinuated that fans of the University
clearly have not "moved on" when they feel the need to cite head-to-head
vs. BYU in nearly every single BYU article when clearly they have larger
problems in their own conference (losing streaks of 10 to ASU and 8 to
Washington, are you kidding me?). I concede that BYU has lost four
in a row to Utah. If that fact alone makes you the better team than you have to
admit inferiority to Colorado State, Houston, and Hawaii (each of which have
recent win streaks of 4 or more against Utah). Go ahead and slap up
another PAC12 bumper sticker and brace yourself for another losing season, you
clearly belong in the conference of champions.
To PacUtes and others who are fixated with the rivals they left behindUtah's losing streak to Arizona: 2Utah's losing streak to
Arizona State: 10Utah's losing streak to Oregon: 2 (5 of last 6)Utah's losing streak to Oregon State: 2Utah's losing streak to
USC: 3 (9 of last 10)Utah's losing streak to UCLA: 2 (10 of last
12)Utah's losing streak to Washington: 8 (they've never beat
them)Other recent losing streaks include Colorado State (5), Hawaii
(6), Houston (4), Boise State (4)BYU has a higher win percentage
(i.e. is better head-to-head) than Utah against most of the PAC12 teams. Utah
can claim a better head-to-head versus Arizona, Colorado, and Stanford and USC
(two teams BYU has only played twice each), while BYU has a better head-to-head
versus ASU, Cal, Oregon, OSU, UCLA, Washington, and WSU. No wonder y'all
are having such a hard time "moving on".
For those who said Utah is going "downhill"...11/27/10: Utah 17
BYU 169/17/11: Utah 54 BYU 109/15/12: Utah 24 BYU 219/21/13:
Utah 20 BYU 13
It is like the girl who demanded to be taken to senior prompt like a queendemanding perks like what Texas was given by Big-12...only to find out Big-12
did not even want it.Then now, the girl after not being asked to the
prompt by any major conferenceis willing go to the prompt at any price
(and may be willing to do anythingafterward).
@steamroller:I agree. The Big 12 will not invite BYU no
matter how hopeful BYU coaches and fans may be at this point. The
conference is happy at 10. If the conference is ever persuaded to expand in the
future, it will certainly be an eastern expansion. This is not rocket science
folks.Does BYU deserve to be in a Power 5 Conference? Perhaps.
Will it ever happen? Not likely.
Nice article on Travis Wilson DN - oh wait ......
Well, Xam, Utah is also the one who has the least amount of championships in
track and field, baseball, etc. while in the WAC or MWC or PAC. They have zero
national championships in football, zero Heisman Trophy winners, and have missed
bowl games the last two years. As they say, they're "on a run"
only it's downhill. When did they win those two BCS games, again, and who
did they play? I've forgotten, just like everybody else.The
only reason Utah was invited is because they needed 12 teams and even lowly
Colorado was invited before U. They even greased the schedule for U to be in
the first PAC 12 Championship game and U promptly lost to the worst road team in
America at the time, at home, with Norm C as OC. Colossal failure, like the
year UNLV beat U 0 - 27.Will Utah get to a bowl game this year?
Probably not. Then Dr. Hill will need to make a coaching change. U needed the
PAC 12 and the PAC 12 needed U to be #12 of 12, which you are. Everyone should
be happy, even as they snicker about how non-competitive U are.
@ Chris B.Stop worrying about BYU and start worrying about your
permanent residence in the basement of the PAC 12.
@Jeremy234:I propose that Bronco uses that motto on his next batch
BYU's moto: "We're amazing and nationally relevant, but somehow
we're the only ones that see it."
@LagoonFreek - I agree that the mt tv killed the old MWC. I agree with you that
TCU would have taken a Big12 invitation no matter the MWC standing. But Utah
NEVER would have turned down a PAC12 invitation just to stay in the MWC. Once
Texas et al declined the PAC's invite that sealed it. The PAC had to grow
and Utah was what was left that still could justify the research institution
status the PAC's Presidents wanted. Utah had made up its mind that it was
better than the MWC and its member schools. BYU was left hanging and did what
they had to do. Was it ideal? No. Is it permanent, probably not (if an ESPN
deal isn't renewed then BYU is really out of it and will have to join a
mid-major, which probably explains the ramp up in talk of joining a conference
now, can't leave that to the last year of the ESPN deal).If
fans can step back and look at the facts and scenarios it gets a lot easier to
understand why things are the way they are and what could happen in the future.
@Rockarolla "The Utes are the Joke of the PAC"Must be tough
constantly losing to a joke program, eh rockarolla?
@JinaYi87 "Believe me when I say that if I hadn't lived in Utah for a
bit I would be fuzzy on the difference between UU and USU"Hey
Jina, Utah is the one that owns BYU in football, won two BCS bowl games in the
last decade and been to multiple final fours in hoops.
@ Brave sir RobinGive us fact and not your continual false narrative
that BYU told the Big12 to take a hike. Tom Holmoe has many times put that baby
to bed but you insist on perpetuating an untruth that takes away any and all
credibility of anything you post.
The Mountain West Conference was a growing threat to the big six five or six
years ago with just BYU, Utah, and TCU as the main threat. The big six
conferences didn't want to have the possibility of having a so called mid
major conference share a piece of the BCS pie. Had the Mountain West Conference
restructured the TV rights with the schools and kept most games with ESPN, BYU
and Utah would have stayed with Boise State joining up. I don't think TCU
would have stayed primarily due to distance. The BCS people would have had no
choice but to bring in the Mountain West Conference into the mix by this time.
Chris B. Onward and upward is the only place the Utes can go. The pac=12
numbers tell it all. Including all sports, the Utes are dead last in athletic
performance. The Utes are the Joke of the PAC and they are the only ones who
don't seem to know it!
I don't understand BYU fans liking their independent status. I get that
it's temporarily necessary for BYU (they needed out of the MWC). But if a
P5 conference doesn't call, then what do you do if you won't go back
to the MWC?I understand that BYU is the rare school that can make
independence work. But then again, what is making it work even mean? Besides
Notre Dame and Service Academy's, the other independent schools are
insignificant programs. I think the answer to what I am asking that comes from
most content BYU fans on this subject is that BYU makes independence work
because of fan interest and TV exposure. hey, playing on ESPN is nice. But the
bottom line for me as to why I would be dissatisfied with independence if I were
a BYU fan is that exposure and access to watching games doesn't change the
opponents on the schedule. And the majority of BYU's opponents are
EXTREMELY weak. I hear BYU needs to win to get into a P5 conference.
So do it. With their light schedule, if they beat Texas again then why
can't BYU go undefeated?
I know this is going to smack of heresy, but Mendenhall needs to stop talking
and start winning. That last bowl game against Washington was a debacle. It
wasn't hard to determine the team that practiced 15 times and the team that
practiced 9 times. Until BYU starts winning the big games, i.e. Power-5 games,
it will never achieve the respect it craves.
WS Grad. -- Do not let one Ute fan (Chris B) represent the entire Ute Nation
when he "thumps his chest". Most Ute fans are rational in knowing that
we have not performed on the football field to receive winning results like we
have hoped, thus it is frustrating. Humbly, most Ute fans are looking for
improvement each year and hoping our student athletes in key positions do not
have serious injuries that jeopardize the remaining season.Our first
year in the PAC12 showed that we can compete in the PAC12 when we went 8-5 with
a bowl win. We will eventually get back to that level or higher if the last
four years of recruiting falls into place and our student athletes do not
sustain major injuries during the season.
Although it is in the realm of possibilities, I do not think BYU will ever get a
P5 invite. If you look at other schools that are mid majors who could bring
better market presence than BYU you will see my point. San Diego State comes to
mind.I am glad BYU is finally admitting that competition wise, going
independent was a big blunder. They desperately need a conference, any
conference. The big problem with having no conference is once you lose once,
your season is done. The bigger problem is if you happen to schedule better
programs, you can pretty much count most of those as losses. If you pad your
schedule with lesser talent everyone views that and the W/L record means
Weber State Graduate:"every conference needs a
'worthy' doormat they can beat up on every year to pad their
records"What a frantic and emotional thing to say. If that were
true -- that conferences stand on the lookout for a way to weaken the brand of
their leagues -- then the Y would have been invited years ago, and the SEC would
have been poaching the Sun Belt and Missouri Valley conferences for teams like
Texas State and Missouri State rather than A&M and Mizzou.
1. Yes, I think the football team could survive in a "big"
conference.2. Yes, if BYU were to move to a "big" conference, the
Big-12 makes the most sense.That said ....1. Look at
Utah. What is the (non economic)value in such a move? At least Utah can recruit
better players, but BYU gets the vast majority of LDS players they want. All
they can do is get better non-LDS players. Ask Gary Crowton how that went.2. Big fish in little pond or little fish in big pond? I'd much
rather go 9-4 or 10-3 every year instead of being a 6-6 "big" conference
team. I have seen every BYU game (in one form or another) since
1979. We've already seen the zenith of the program. We're as good as
we're going to be. Boise State has done a lot of good things
out of the WAC and later the Mountain West Conference. The problem is that
Bronco has raised expectations of BYU football but not its talent. Under LaVell,
A WAC championship was a golden ticket.
@toosmartforyou"It will all come toghether when the timing is
right."Unfortunately for BYU and her fans, the right timing was
two years ago. That's when BYU told the Big 12 to take a hike. History
will look back at that decision as possibly the most colossal mistake in the
history of college athletics.
Nope. We love independence. It's been fun and profitable.
I've sat in the stands more at OU, U Mich, AL, AU and tOSU than I have at
BYU. BYU is not in that league by the depth of it's athletes alone.
Forget knocking off a team once in a while, I'm talking about week-in,
week-out. Neither is Utah, and they're going to keep proving it.Independence is just the right situation for BYU; I think they've in
their sweet spot and should give it a full decade to let things get right and
find a stride.
"Running back Jamaal Williams said the Cougars want to be “the best
team in the world” before amending that to “best in the
nation.”How cute.@Wiscoug3rd in the
conference? How do you figure? It wasn't all that long ago that TCU, a team
that is currently struggling, ate BYU's lunch year after year. Oklahoma
State, Tech, WVU, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU all mop the floor with the Cougars.
BYU beats Kansas and Iowa State. Thanks for the laugh though.
"Too bad every big time conference is well aware byu wants to be included
and no one thinks they are worthy."Perhaps so...every conference
needs a "worthy" doormat they can beat up on every year to pad their
records. Colorado and Utah appeared to fit the "worthy" criteria, thus
the invitation to join the PAC.I don't particularly care for
BYU, but Utah's incessant chest thumping about being "prestigious"
is pretty amusing considering their inability to compete against their
"worthy" PAC brothers...even with the millions of dollars that have been
flowing into the Ute athletic budget from the bowl games these brothers
participate in while the Utes cheer them on from the comfort of their homes.
@ Chris B:Once again you naively take it upon yourself to try to
speak not only for Utah's PAC12 conference, but for every other P5
conference out there. Ridiculous. There are many other considerations to take
into account besides whether BYU is worthy or not. Conveniently, you neglected
to mention any of those considerations. Look at BYU's record
regarding the Big12 over their recent history. They are 5-1. Definitely worthy.
What is Utah's conference record since joining the PAC12? Definitely
not worthy. BYU has owned Utah in basketball over the past decade.
It doesn't bode well for you to claim that Utah is being owned by an
"unworthy" program. It would be in Ute fans best interest to promote
BYU's worthiness. It would then make their wins over BYU more meaningful.
My point is, off-the-cuff judgments like yours don't add to the
dialog in a positive way. You are only promoting divisiveness and perhaps even
displaying some ignorance of the situation. Let's try harder to keep local
bias out of the argument. Like TooSmartForYou pointed out... it will
definitely come together when the timing is right. And so it will.
Chris B,You are right, BYU is a definitely a Mid Major, and is
clearly unwanted by the major conferences. That won't change any time soon,
and likely won't change ever. Utah still plays like a Mid Major
despite being on the inside now. They still recruit largely Mid Major talent.
The difference is the size of their TV pay checks. Utah clearly wins in that
department. Unfortunately neither school has truly moved to the
next level. As such the Oregon's, Ohio St's, and Florida St's of
the world consider both of these Utah schools irrelevant in the aggregate
discussion. Neither school is getting the kind of respect nationally that their
fan bases seem to be demanding. That won't change until both
schools are winning consistently.
BYU would be a good addition to the Big 12, regardless of what our commissioner
thinks. I think the folks at OU would love having BYU (Even though you beat us
in 2009........). I for one would much rather see OU play BYU than play Kansas
or ISU. BYU would bring a legit opponent, despite what some seem to think.Not sure why these articles attract Utah University trolls in such large
droves. Believe me when I say that if I hadn't lived in Utah for a bit I
would be fuzzy on the difference between UU and USU. I was talking to my friend
from back East and he honestly thought that USU was the UU (And the eye test on
record perpetuates this).
@Wiscourgarfan I agree! Good Post!
@Chris BI think it's hilarious that you always say utah is
going "onward and upward to Pac-12 glory" and say BYU is a lowly
mid-major, but you try to make a big deal over utah beating BYU the last few
years. You can't have all of these things at the same time.One
of these things has to be true:-utah is not nearly as good as you
make them out to be.-BYU is much better than you make them out to be.I would say it's a combination of both, but if utah was actually
some elite program and BYU was just a mid-major, your claim to fame
wouldn't be that utah has beaten BYU, or that utah is in the Pac-12 and BYU
There is no question that BYU is a program worthy of inclusion in a P5
conference, the question is whether or not any of those conferences want any
more schools? Realistically the Big 12 is the only one that would be a good fit
for BYU, and they seem content at 10 schools. So what can BYU do? Be the best
available school for expansion if/when the Big 12 decides to grow. If/when BYU gets an invite to the Big 12, there will definitely be growing
pains. BYU is not on par with Texas and Oklahoma and would likely be battling
for 3rd place most seasons in the Big 12. Fortunately, however, the Big 12 top
to bottom isn't as strong as some of the other P5 conferences so BYU would
likely never be a conference bottom dweller. I think Bronco and Holmoe or doing
this right by saying/inferring "we like where we're at... but we'd
rather be in the Big 12."
of course they would.Too bad every big time conference is well aware
byu wants to be included and no one thinks they are worthy.The SEC,
ACC, Pac 12, Big 12(with only 10 teams because no other teams are worthy) and
Big 10 all came to the same conclusion: byu is a mid major because they deserve
to be a mid major
BYU was liberated in 2011, free from the mess of the MWC. The poor tv contract
with theMt and being left behind by Utah and TCU helped BYU make the decision,
and the ESPN contract made it possible. It was very liberating back then. And
while things could be much worse for BYU they certainly could also be improved.
But the WCC is a good, albeit temporary, fit for the bulk of BYU sports so BYU
is not in a huge rush to join a conference. BYU has done a great job positioning
itself for the future; football independence might not be the best place but BYU
is poised for greatness in the future!
It will all come toghether when the timing is right.