daehder1, as someone who witness's first hand the charity given to the
community both financially and temporally by churches, your position of the
"taxing church income and property" would somehow give the government
more income is not well founded. The government, local, state and federal could
not even begin to fill the gap left which is fill by charitable organizations
who are tax exempt. Much of this "welfare" goes to many who not even
active in the faith they seek the charity from. If you want higher taxes, then
AMEN to your position.
If any of you believe the IRS is innocent of what they have been accused of,I
have some ocean front property in Wyoming that I would like to talk to you
Karen R. said:"The point is that, for too many now, there is no
distinction to be made between their politics and their religion. It
doesn't matter what the issue is. Everything is seen through the lens of a
righteous crusade.Far too often these people are serving their
religion, not their country."====Karen, please focus
like a laser, and deal with the subject at hand: Obama's IRS Department
targeting conservative groups, and conveniently deleting e-mails and destroying
hard drives relevant to the investigation.I know trying to make Lee
the issue helps to take the heat off of your Dear Leader, but we both know what
happened is indefensible. Okay, so it's no big deal...cool! I guess the
next Republican President can target left-wing groups through the IRS and
you'll be fine with that as well...right? After all, Obama is setting
precedence, is he not?
@ 1ObserverThe point is that, for too many now, there is no
distinction to be made between their politics and their religion. It
doesn't matter what the issue is. Everything is seen through the lens of
a righteous crusade.Far too often these people are serving their
religion, not their country.
@ Karen R - I still don't see how religion has motivated Lee's
scrutiny of the IRS. Because a person professes religiosity as you claim
doesn't necessarily mean that everything they do is motivated by their
self-proclaimed religious virtue. That would be painting all religious
conservatives with too broad a brush and I don't think could be
substantiated by fact. As for singling out a religion, Ajax singled out Mike
Lee and his religion and then went on to include all religions so I will give
that one to you and give Ajax the benefit of the doubt. I have
personally worked with a number of conservatives in DC who are religious people
and I rarely sense any religious overtones in our conservations. I have also
worked with a number of rabid liberals in Congress and in those conversations I
sensed none of those overtones. Most can and do focus on issues and it would be
unfair to say that either side is motivated solely by overly-religious or
overly-liberal philosophy. But all of this is a distraction from
the original intent of the article - The IRS is covering up and should be
1Observer writes, "The desperately needed social programs you talk about are
the main reason for the debt".Sir, you need to "observe"
the federal budget. Over half of it goes for what is euphemistically called
"defense". Weapons and planes that the Navy and Air Force don't
even want, but which are going to be manufactured in the district of the guy in
charge of appropriations...
Mike Lee is living proof of how bad our caucus system is. How anyone with an
I.Q. above 1 would think that he would be better than Bob Bennett is a mystery.
Bennett voted to save the country with the TARP bill while Lee shut down the
government and deeply hurt our economy.
Yes, probably the IRS is involved in a cover up. But once Congress tried to deny
Lois Learner her 5th amendment rights, all pretense of following the rules and
the law flew out the window.If indeed (As Orin Hatch claims) there
is some arcane rule that making a statement before Congress that you are
innocent, strips a person of their 5th amendment rights, shouldn't that
person at least be warned? Orin Hatch stated that she gave up that right when
she declared her innocence, which rule is this Senator Hatch? I have my doubts
that it even exists.I am not for the IRS targeting people, but
neither am I for a federal employee being railroaded.
There are always email back up systems if not triple systems in place for
disaster contingency planning including back-up tapes. Emails never disappear.
You're spot on Senator Lee. I have a master's in IT Management.
Failure to thoroughly vet charges of partisan misuse of the IRS would be tragic.
Confidence in government institutions is very low - Congress, the VA and the
Border patrol are but a few examples. Both sides of the isle should be eager to
clear the air. "There's nothing here folks, move along," is not
FOr most of us emails are backed up by Yahoo, Gmail, etc. 5% of hard drives
crash in a given year. If the IRS did not have back ups they should be fired.
Even crashed hard drives contain a lot of information that can be retrieved.
This is a no brainer. The IRS is corrupt. I don't know where religion or
Bush comes in here.
Six computers crash simultaneously? Sure, along with Obama sycophants I believe
@ 1ObserverIs it even possible any longer to separate some
Conservatives from their religiosity? Isn't this the way they want it?
They see it as a virtue, don't they, and wear it proudly on their sleeves?
Some even believe one cannot be "a true Conservative" without it.So how is it possible NOT to see religion in everything they do when
they themselves proudly declare that this is precisely the case?BTW,
Ajax's comment didn't call out any one religion. It called out
religion in general and it was right on.
@ daehder1The national debt is roughly $40,000 for every man, woman
and child claiming US citizenship. Taxing all of the churches and non-profits
in this country wouldn't even make a dent in that number. The desperately
needed social programs you talk about are the main reason for the debt and I can
personally attest to the fact that local churches and non-profits across the
country have far greater success in changing peoples lives than a government
program will ever have. If you personally want to do more to help people in
need, feel free to voluntarily give to the non-profit or church of your choice.
I am sure they would welcome the support and the money will be far better spent
than if you sent it to the government.
Once again our liberal friends have NO answers for yet another one of their
messiah's scandals. Instead of dealing with the obvious cover-up, they
must attack the messenger. Saul Alinsky would be proud. The
corruption of the Left is limitless. So let me see if I follow the Liberals on
this: 1) Lois Learner took the 5th during the House Oversight and Government
Reform Committee hearings (didn't answer questions), and 2) we now have
supposed damaged hard drives and missing e-mails relevant to the IRS targeting
conservative groups, yet the Liberals call this a "conspiracy" by the
right? Obama's scandals make Watergate look like a
misdemeanor!It is truly pathetic watching the Left in this country
make excuses for the lawlessness of this Thug we call President. If you folks
think your earning brownie points with your Dear Leader, guess again. He
doesn't see you as loyal, he sees you as fools. When he's done with
you, he'll spit you out. You'll be under the same totalitarian
oppression as the rest of us. Sadly, you won't believe it until
you're living it.
losing emails is a serious problem. However, granting tax free status to some
of these organizations may indeed be illegal according to a law passed by
Congress over 50 years ago. So is Congress now really crying foul because the
IRS is not following an illegal policy. Who is right and who is wrong?
Anybody who understands computers knows emails don't go missing just
because a server crashes. They have backups (by law). If the files AND the
backups are missing.. it's a sure sign of a cover-up.This
doesn't happen by accident (both the files AND the backups being wiped).======That's when I knew the investigation into the AG
in Utah was onto something... when the AG said his emails had been wiped out and
he couldn't produce them for the investigators.That
doesn't just happen. Somebody has to make it happen======If there's one thing we learn from the recent AG investigation...
it's that these files CAN be reconstructed (IF they want to bad enough and
have enough money).These files being so completely wiped from
existence tells me one thing... that there's something to cover up here (it
wasn't just an accident). So I hope they keep investigating (as they did
in the AG investigation). Until they get the files they are looking for.This isn't an accident. Government correspondence (which is
required to be backed up for this purpose by law) doesn't go missing by
Mik-lee who short sold his own home/mortgage has ZERO credibility when it comes
to financial matters
More liberal groups were targeted than conservative. So if repubs want the
democrats to outspend them and beat them even more in elections then please,
let's keep investigating the IRS.
The NSA probably has a copy of the emails... just ask them... don't even
need a warrant these days... :D
This must be Mike Lee's assignment this week.If you notice, Cruz, and
the other GOP conservative minions have been assigned certain topics to rant
about as well.They are to "test the waters", according to their
GOP big brothers.
Is this what the people of Utah sent Sen. Mike Lee and Rep. Jason Chaffetz back
to Washington to do for our State?Benghazi, Shut-down the Government
and lost e-mails?Seriously?And the Tea-Publicans want
MORE of them??
Ha! I'm sure on the IRS side in this one. Personally, I think none of those
groups should have tax deductibility, and legislation should make church income
and property taxable. That alone would pay off our national debt and finance
desperately needed social programs.
Eric Cantor got away with this type of leadership(?) for 14 years.Virginia voters finally tired of Eric Cantor's fixation on Washington.Some time during his third term, Utah Voters will wake-up and send Mike
Lee home...er...off to some swinging-door-super-lobbyist job in
@ AjaxWhy is it that religion is even an issue? I don't see
any mention of it in the article. Why are there so many petty posters who
constantly use every issue/opportunity to disparage the predominant faith in
this state. It really is a joke and undermines the credibility of your
comments. I have completely stopped reading comments in the Trib because nearly
every commenter drags religion into their comments. The IRS scandal and Mike
Lee's response have nothing to do with religion. I rarely agree with Sen.
Lee but it is clear that the IRS is following a typical pattern of lies and
deceit in Washington. That pattern has existed regardless of party or religion
for far too long.
Mike Lee is just trying to score easy conservative points.
My last post didn't make it past the ever vigilant DN screeners so I will
try a different approach!Dear Sen. LeeThank you for your
dedicated, patriotic and ever bibartisan approach to your office! You are
probably right! There very well may be a cover-up in the making! As a previous
poster says "Duh". I can't imagine why they
wouldn't want to cooperate in the ensuing investigation and hearings but
maybe it has something to do with the statement in another previous posters
question. " Senator Lee, have you see the public opinion of you and your
colleagues". Is it possible that they just don't respect
You Sen. Lee, Sen. Cruz and the others sitting on that side of the aisle, and
find it hard to take you serious? You can only get so much mileage out of the
"Sky is falling, the Sky is falling" before you lose, just as Chicken
Little found, your credibility!
"The attacks on Senator Lee are disappointing. He is not the issue. It is
the behavior of the IRS. If you wish to argue that the IRS did nothing wrong, or
that it should be allowed to engage in politically-motivated shenanigans, then
please make that argument."Says who?Everything Mr.
Lee has done has been politically driven.Now suddenly, we're
expected to believe that he's sincere about this issue? How do we know that
he isn't making a mountain of a moe hill for political purposes?I'm sorry, but Mikey has cried wolf too many times for any reasonable
person to give credibility to him.Then again, ya gotta hand it to
him. He's making his last few years of being a senator interesting! His replacement can't come soon enough.
Senator Mike Lee and fellow ideologues, casting themselves as a providential
bulwark against clandestine evil doers bent on destroying the nation, are proof
of the toxic mixing of religion and politics. Defeating the enemy is for them a
religious as well as a political crusade, lacking in perspective and justifying
whatever means, whether true or false, right or wrong.Such
pretension is largely delusional. Utah suffers. It is a losing game for
everyone.Religion and government can play well together and have at
times done so for the good of all, just not when religious beliefs are used as a
narrow and divisive strategy driven by fear and contrived for political
advantage and personal gain at the expense of others.
The odds of those emails being lost, if standard IT practices were followed, are
somewhere between slim and none. Mike Lee is right - the IRS is playing the same
game Mr. Swallow played here in Utah. The only difference is that the IRS was
smart enough to shred the hard drives in question.The attacks on
Senator Lee are disappointing. He is not the issue. It is the behavior of the
IRS. If you wish to argue that the IRS did nothing wrong, or that it should be
allowed to engage in politically-motivated shenanigans, then please make that
all the liberal BO apologists are showing their technological ignorance.
E-mails do NOT disappear even if a hard drive crashes. There IS a cover-up.
The emails exist, and they show criminal use of the IRS; that is why the dems
refuse to turn them over and that is why the 5th amendment was invoked. plain
Outside of Utah, few, if any, have regard for what Senator Lee has to say. In
addition to costing his bank hundreds of thousands of dollars for walking away
from his mortgage he cost Americans billions by inititating the goverment
shutdown. It's time to turn Senator Lee's microphone off and bring
him home. The IRS needs to be investigated but we need respected leaders with
integrity to do it.
Can mike Lee so something constructive for once? Please???I
don't know, pass a job bill or something to assist in green technology
development?Do something other than shut down the government and
spread stupid paranoia. Are his 6 years up already? Man they never
The IRS has willingly become a tool of the Democratic party. President Obama has
declared there is no smidgen of corruption despite the evidence to the contrary.
His justice department announced there would be no criminal charges brought even
as investigations were only beginning. Sounds like signals to the IRS that the
president and attorney general have the backs of those unwilling to testify or
Of course Mike Lee thinks this. I'll tell you what. Investigate Bush and
Cheney over the Valerie Plame issue, whether they had any involvement.
Investigate the IRS targeting liberal groups in the Bush years. Investigate the
many other things that Republicans got away with. Let's put them all in
the same basket. Unless you do, the current IRS controversy, which has been
adequately investigated and vetted now, is nothing more than a partisan game.
Can't we get a Congress that actually does something instead of toxic
political games and hypocritical huffing and puffing. Senator Lee, have you see
the public opinion of you and your colleagues. You would think you could get it
through your head that the path you are on is not approved by the people.
I actually agree with him..... data retention is a law, not just a best
practice. If they destroyed documents "accidentally", well..... I just
don't believe it.
We need more to send more hound dogs like Lee to govment to sniff out the
problems. We can't quite put a finger on what's going on with Benghazi
or the IRS, but I bet more patrits like Lee could rout out the stink!
There are just way too many jokes here with this story. I am glad Senator Lee is
on this one. Now if we could just reopen the Warren Commission report,get video
from Area 51 and get funding to find Bigfoot I would feel even better.
Mike Lee Thinks...you lost me there.