Quantcast

Comments about ‘Peavler: Does a scheduling agreement with the Big 12 make sense for BYU?’

Return to article »

Published: Wednesday, June 18 2014 10:15 p.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@ekute

"You should take all of that and present it to the P5. Oh wait...holmoe and mendenhall already did that. lol."

It's pretty obvious that "the P5" don't matter when it comes to such things. You utah "fans" act as if nothing can occur without the explicit approval of "the P5" when in fact "the P5" don't make a bit of difference when it comes to any of the things I listed.

Evidence? Well my post is all the evidence needed. BYU did all of those things outside of "the P5" while utah was incapable of doing any of them while being inside "the P5".

lol

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@2fer

Just because some other cities are worse it doesn't make slc good.

You made the claim of "slc>Provo" but the truth is 4 times as many students refute that claim as do countless lists and publications that all laud Provo as THE BEST place to live in the entire country. That is right "THE BEST". slc doesn't make any of the lists.

Tell me this if it really is "slc>Provo" then how come literally no one but some "frantic and emotional" utah "fans" actually agree with that? How come the students choosing between the two places and every single poll or publication that rates such things, all national and unbiased, rates Provo so far above slc that there is no comparison whatsoever?

I know it is part of the utah "fan" narrative to try and pretend that Provo is this awful backwater filled with bigots and bumpkins but the actual facts simply prove otherwise.

These are facts:

Provo>slc as proclaimed by every single publication that rates such things.

Provo>slc as decided by 4 times as many students that choose which place to attend school in.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

Oh and 2fer when was the last time Pullman/Moscow was rated as THE BEST place to live in the entire country by anyone let alone just about everyone that studies and makes such rankings?

NightOwlAmerica
SALEM, OR

It would be good for BYU to be a football member only.
Like Utah, they would benefit from an intact schedule each season. Only to have to arrange 3-4 OOC games.

And also like Utah, BYU will find it tough to compete each week with quality opponents. There is a big difference between Oklahoma State and Idaho State.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Duckhunter

The student argument is extremely poor, to say the least. More kids go to school in Provo/Orem because there are two schools. Utah has 32,000 and BYU has 34,000. Obviously not a significant difference.

Which publications? A quick Google search found that Time, Business Week, and US News didn't include Provo on their best places to live lists. Interesting side note though, Liveability (the top result) did rank Provo number 17.....behind Salt Lake City which was number 8. Have fun in Tulsa.

Also, for what it's worth. I don't think Provo is a backwater place. It is just boring. Painfully boring.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Two For Flinching:

There are some additional flaws in Duckhunter's stretched logic. I know...big surprise there.

(1) UVU's student population = 31,556 undergraduates. But the Y's full-time student population = 27,978 undergraduates and 2,065 graduates (total: 30,043). So would Duckhunter be suggesting that UVU is a better school than the Y? Afterall, it DOES have a 5% larger student body.

(2) As you'd already pointed out, he's trying to stack 2 universities in WACistan to a single university in SLC. However, as far as student populations go, SLC has more than just the UofU's 24,840 undergrad and 7,548 grad (total: 32,388) students. SLCC brings another 30,112, and Westminster an additional 2,887. And of course Utah's 32.4K > the Y's 30K or UVU's 31.6K

(3) Ducky's original (errant) argument that WACistan drawing twice as many students as SLC is proof that Provo > SLC. But if population justifies superiority...SLC is 64.9% more populous than Provo, SL County is 99.3% more populous than Utah County, and SLC metro is 116.5% more populous than Provo/Orem metro.

Edge: Salt Lake City

WACPaddingOurSchedule
pocatello, ID

Duckhunter, who cares what a publication says about the best places to live.
If someone likes where they are currently living, that's the best place to live for them.

BleedCougarBlue
Enid, OK

Anyone else around here find it interesting that BYU is constantly called a, and I quote, "mid-major" by fans of a certain school that by THEIR record since getting into the PAC-12, they have solidly entrenched themselves as a, and I quote, "mid-major".

Does the word "ironic" mean anything to them?

Go Cougars!

Jealous U
Alpine, UT

BleedCougarBlue

4-5, 3-6, 2-7, with back-to-back losing, bowl less seasons tells you all you need to know about that mid-major up north.

Of course they blame their record on SOS, but that refutes their previous claims that the Utes could compete with anybody.

If you read between the lines, they're already dusting off another shelf in their hall of fame closet for another SOS trophy.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@naval

I never said the size of the student body makes one school better, but the truth is every single student that attends BYU or UVU could have gone to the university of utah if they had wanted to, they would have been accepted. But we both know many of the students at the university of utah were denied entrance into BYU and had to settle for the university of utah instead. Not only that many of the students at UVU were also denied entry to BYU and could have then gone to utah but instead prefered to stay in Provo/Orem and attend UVU rather than go to slc and attend utah.

In otherwords they prefered to live in Provo/orem and not SLC by more than double the numbers than cthose that chose to go to slc and utah.

As for SLCC, well my son in law currently attends SLCC in the Occupational Therapy program but lives in Utah county. Neither he nor my daughter wanted anything to do with living in the sl valley and instead he choose to commute to his classes.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@2fer

Actually the student argument is right on, you're just struggling to grasp it so let me help you.

There are exactly zero students at BYU that were denied admittance to utah and went to BYU as their fallback. There are a lot of students at utah that were denied admittance to BYU and instead went to utah as their fallback.

Now there are students at utah that neither applied for BYU or wanted to attend BYU, and there are probably even some students at utah that applied to, and were accepted by, both schools that decided to go to utah over BYU. But there aren't any at BYU that were denied entrance to utah and admitted to BYU so that means that far more wanted to attend BYU than utah. That is just simple logic.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@2fer

As far as Provo being o the lists of "best places", well you must have a very poor google function. Just one search of "Provo Best' brought up over 30 pages of lists Provo has made over the last few years of "best" places.

Just this year they are #2 on the Outside Online poll, #1 for Forbes, #2 for Business Insider (to be fair SLC is #5 in that one but still lower than Provo) and going back over the last few years #10 in Kiplingers, #7 for MSN/Money, TOP 10 for CNN/Money, "BEST" for Triathletes, and the lists go on and on with many of them being #1 over the last 2 decades.

Really it isn't even a debate as to which place independent publications rate better bewteen Provo and SLC.

Now you may prefer slc and good for you, but that is not the prevailing opinion of the publications and organizations that make a business of rating such things nor is it the prevailing opionion of the majority of the students that wish to attend college in the state of Utah. Just the way it is.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

Duckhunter, I'm not quite sure what the point of your argument with Naval Vet and Two For Flinching is, but let me assure you that students are not going to BYU because Provo is a good place to live. Most of the online poll you reference have to do with very specific life satisfaction metrics (place to start a business, outdoor opportunities, median income, etc), most of which have little or no direct impact on students.

Provo is a nice place to live (as is SLC), but that is a separate argument from the one you are winning. That more students want to go to BYU than Utah is an undeniable fact. However, the reasons for it more likely have to do with the LDS culture, the unique mission of BYU, athletic and academic superiority, etc. (not because it's a groovy place to live). Because more students want to attend BYU enrollment standards are higher resulting in a higher academic profile for undergraduates.

Do athletes care about the graduate profile of their institution? Not usually, but it doesn't hurt. Utah has some outstanding graduate programs and they represent the state well.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter:

"...the truth is every single student that attends BYU or UVU could have gone to the university of utah if they had wanted to, they would have been accepted."

Actually, "the truth is" that isn't the truth. For starters, not every UVU student could have obtained admission to the U. UVU has an open admissions policy. Moreover, while there are some U students who applied to, yet not granted admission to the Y, neither of us really knows what the percentage of U students are who fell into that category. When I was at the U, I'd met several students who transferred to the U from the Y because they hated it...just like I did. And I'd also met many students with full ride academic scholarships to both universities, but opted to attend the U over the Y anyway. However, I never met a fellow student who claimed his first choice was the Y.

(cont...)

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter (cont.):

On the other hand, every one of the UVCC students I'd met while attending the Y, while living in off campus housing (Glenwood Apts) -- EVERY ONE (and there were many) -- decided to attend the Orem campus because they applied to, and did not obtain admission to, the Y, but wanted to live in the Y's culture. Additionally, every one of their ultimate goals was to eventually transfer to the Y.

Make no mistake...it's UVU -- not the U (or USU for that matter) that scoops up the lion's share of all of the Y's rejects. It's the arrogance of the typical coug that prevents them from seeing that not everyone wants to go to the Y. I wouldn't doubt that everyone were being completely honest with themselves, the bulk of Utah's and USU's student body chose the U and the USU as their 1st choice of in-state institutions.

(cont...)

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter (cont.):

The Y's student body is overwhelmingly LDS. Over 98% of them. And nearly 70% of the Y's student body population hails from outside of Utah. But that doesn't matter since the Y doesn't penalize students for being "out of state" like the U and USU do. Out-of-state tuition can be a prohibitive disincentive to attend a particular school. When I was at the Y, a lot of fellow students opted to attend because of the LDS culture, but that doesn't mean every LDS person wants to be part of the Y's LDS culture. The Y is an "extreme" LDS culture; one that is far too conservative for some other LDS folks.

Additionally, the Y's applicant pool is larger than the U's because the Y's pool is "LDS members", whereas the U's is largely "Utah residents". The LDS church has over 15 million members. The state of Utah has under 3 million residents.

And finally, folks like you who are obsessed with high school transcripts and ACT scores just don't get it. Nobody cares what those were after graduating from college.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

Naval Vet, I agree that Utah is far more competitive (admissions-wise) than UVU, but to even hint it is on par with BYU seems "frantic and emotional" (there's your shout-out). Of course you have never met a Ute who admitted BYU was their first choice... I likewise have never met a Cougar who was dead-set on going to Utah. No one will readily admit to that (even to themselves). But the facts don't lie.

Acceptance rate: BYU 55% of 12,557, Utah 83% of 9,545
GPA and ACT of incoming students: BYU 3.81 and 28.2, Utah 3.59 and 24. (I agree these don't matter later on, but they absolutely matter in making a choice for where to attend college).

And of course the statistic that actually matters in this conversation...
% of accepted students that enroll: BYU 78%(top 3 in the country), Utah 39%

So "the truth" is that far more students want to go to BYU than Utah and a reasonable assumption (based in statistical fact) is that BYU was the first choice for most that apply to both BYU and the U. Looking forward to your spin.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

follow-up to Naval Vet. You make a fair point about BYU's applicant pool being larger than Utah's but that doesn't change the accepted to enrolled percentage. It does explain why more people apply to BYU and why many of the applicants are out-of-staters. It does not even remotely suggest that those who grew up in Utah more readily chose Utah over BYU. While I would not be surprised if that were true for applicants from Salt Lake valley there is no actual evidence to back that claim, while there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Duckhunter

I'm not sure you know what you're trying to argue. Acceptance rates between the two schools has nothing to with which city is preferable to live in. As Navel pointed out, BYU has a pool if 15 million people, Utah has a pool of a few million. It's not a mystery to why BYU has higher enrollment standards and all that. However, it has everything to do with the culture of the school, not because Provo is a great place to live.

Wisconsincoug did an excellent job punching hole in your online polls argument. I will just add that you can find anything you want while searching on Google. Of course "Provo Best" will yield results that mention Provo as the best place to live. You could probably do the same with any city. I went with a generic, and unbiased, "Best place to live", and Provo was nowhere to be seen. Also, it should be mentioned that search results are often partially based on browser history, so we may have different results, even if we google the exact same thing.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

If we're going to continue to talk "college enrollment" on this thread, at least one clarification should be made. If Utah has a pool of 3 million applicants because that is how many Utah residents there are (does no one from AZ or ID apply to the U?), than BYU's pool should not be 15 million, because 1) not all those LDS members are active, 2) more than half of those live outside the U.S., 3) most members of the church are not potential college applicants, 4) BYU does attract several (like 17) non-members to their campus, and 5) with higher admission standards many choose not to apply to BYU (knowing they will not get in).

I think a fairer comparison would be the actual number of applicants to each school. Utah is in the 9-10k range and BYU is in the 12-13k range. I think it's pretty incredible that both schools have so many applicants, the state of Utah will probably need to create/support another university within the next decade or so.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments