"Look at you trying to divert attention from the fact that Utah has OWNED
BYU head-to-head over the last 10-15 years. OWNED.Yet, delusional
BYU fans reach for ANYTHING to make those losses to Utah not so. You all have no
idea how whiny and crybabyish that makes you look. . .A little
education for you: Head-to-head trumps ALL ELSE when comparing two teams.
Period. That is the best indicator of who is better because it is the only
statistic in which both teams have 100% competitive commonality."Thanks to Tomahawk Red for his endorsement of claiming BYU is better than
Oklahoma and Texas. After all, head to head trumps ALL ELSE and BYU's
head-to-head against those two teams is impressive, having only lost 1 game by 1
point on the road with Heaps as BYU's QB.In all seriousness, we
all know BYU is not better than Texas or Oklahoma overall, yet BYU has, as I
mentioned, only lost once by 1 point on the road. So head-to-head DOES NOT trump
Snack PACOlympus Cove, UtahIt's no wonder you've
been a bottom dweller in the PAC 12; Utah can't even beat fellow bottom
dwellers WSU and Colorado consistently.-------And
it's no wonder why everyone hates BYU and its fans. Here you
are arguing that you would dominate the Big 12... while in the same breath
reminding us how awful "bottom dweller" Utah is -- a team you
haven't been able to beat even once yet this decade, and only THREE times
out of the last 12 tries.You just got flamed.LOL
Snack PACOlympus Cove, Utah2009 BYU 14 @Oklahoma 132011
BYU 16 @Texas 172013 BYU 41 Texas 20----------So
how does it feel having the same naive mindset Utah fans had four years ago...
back when we thought we'd step into the Pac 12 and dominate?Should I also bust out all the power conference victories Utah had prior to
joining the Pac 12? Clearly, that didn't mean jack.Don't
you understand that playing the occasional power team once or twice per season
is worlds apart from playing them every week?
SportsFanBYU fans make it so easy to win arguments.Look
at you trying to divert attention from the fact that Utah has OWNED BYU
head-to-head over the last 10-15 years. OWNED.Yet, delusional BYU
fans reach for ANYTHING to make those losses to Utah not so. You all have no
idea how whiny and crybabyish that makes you look. You don't realize it
because if you did, there's no way you would willingly keep running your
mouths like you do.A little education for you: Head-to-head trumps
ALL ELSE when comparing two teams. Period. That is the best indicator of who is
better because it is the only statistic in which both teams have 100%
competitive commonality.Your weak attempts at "winning" are
utterly transparent, seeing as how they are worthless in determining who the
better team is. Different schedules and different opponents have everything to
do why one team might finish ranked higher than another.So then can
we assume Northern Illinois is better than Texas, LSU and Michigan because they
have more wins over the last few years or so -- Despite being galaxies apart in
@ Snack PAC2009 - OU finished unranked and fourth in the South
Division2011 - Texas finished 6th (out of 10) and unranked2013 - Texas finished 4th (out of 10) and unrankedTexas and OU
have the "biggest" names, but clearly they don't always have the
best football teams.
Its interesting to see the high percentage of responses to this article from Ute
fans...though it has nothing to do with Utah. It appears to be
an ongoing obsession that isn't going to quit anytime soon. What is
it about BYU that causes their rival to give them so much ongoing attention?Only a team with significance on a national scale would draw this much
attention from both fans and foes. BYU is undoubtedly getting there,
in spite of what the anti-BYU pundits say. And BYU is undoubtedly going to
have a very successful and eye-opening season this year.Watch and see. It
will be a lot of fun. At least for BYU and its fans.
tommy"So what on earth makes you think you could beat teams like
Baylor, OU, OSU, Tech, Texas, K-State, West Virginia and TCU on a weekly
basis?"2009 BYU 14 @Oklahoma 132011 BYU 16 @Texas 172013 BYU 41 Texas 20BYU has already proven they can compete with
the big boys of the Big 12.NOBODY in the Big 12 is bigger than
Oklahoma and Texas.btw, remind us how times Utah has beaten USC and
Oregon since joining the PAC 12.It's no wonder you've been
a bottom dweller in the PAC 12; Utah can't even beat fellow bottom dwellers
WSU and Colorado consistently.
Utah fans may cherry pick a few games or one season to claim dominance, but they
can't explain away the simple fact that BYU has had TWICE as many AP Top 25
finishes and THREE times as many 11+ win seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era.Head-to-head proves nothing, as we saw with Utah's upset over
Stanford last season. Not even the most delusional Utah fan could reasonably
argue that Utah was "better" than Stanford last season.If
Utah was really "better" than BYU, how is BYU kicking their trash in AP
Top 25 finishes and 11+ win seasons?
Tomahawk RedBYU has already kicked Utah's trash in overall
record and ranking.Since 2006:AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 4Utah 211+ Win, Top 15 FinishesBYU 3Utah
1And both of those "stats" were accomplished BEFORE Utah
moved to the PAC, so don't go pulling out your whiny SOS card.
@ bleed cougar blueThe slogan might be a joke, but don't let
Bronco read it. You never know what new heights of stupid slogans that guy is
capable of reaching.
BlueNtheFaceNeither of us know this as fact. You would hope it true,
I (maybe naïve) would wish it different with our national reach for LDS
high school athletes and others that want a BYU type experience. The U
recruiting has nothing special to offer that any P5 team doesn't.---------No it's not fact, but it's overwhelmingly
likely that would be the case.Why? Two reasons:1) Utah
and TCU, two mid major powers have been smacked by Power Conference play so
far.2) BYU hasn't even been able to dominate
independent/MWC-grade schedules... losing to teams like Utah State, a dreadful
Virginia, Nevada, Boise State, and (according to you) a bottom-dweller Utah
three times.So what on earth makes you think you could beat teams
like Baylor, OU, OSU, Tech, Texas, K-State, West Virginia and TCU on a weekly
basis?Answer is, you wouldn't.If you want a chance
in the Big 12, be prepared for a lot of losing.
SportsFanOrem, UTSince joining the PAC, Utah has had ONE
dominating, Heaps meltdown win and three skin of your teeth, lucky bounce wins
by 1, 3 and 7 points, any one of which, if not all three, could have easily gone
BYU's way.---------Yet if BYU had won those close
games, we would doubtlessly be hearing at every turn how BYU has kicked
Utah's trash the last four years and 9 of the last 12.Your
remarks are nothing more than trying to spin your losses in the best way
possible. And it's entirely hypocritical.
DeepBlueAnaheim, CAThe truth is, they're scared to death
that BYU will be invited to join the Big 12 and completely crush Utah's PAC
12 sticker campaign, which is the ONLY thing Utah has been able to accomplish
since joining the PAC.----------Wrong. As usual.I would welcome BYU getting an invite to the Big 12. Because it would be
great to finally see you all anguish over how difficult it is to compete with
the upper echelon of CFB. Because you all haven't learned a thing from Utah
and TCU. So many Ute fans would LOVE to see you learn that lesson the hard way,
amid repeated beatings from Texas, OU, OSU, and probably Baylor, TTU and
everyone else in that conference.And one more thing... it's a
GUARANTEE that BYU would have had the exact same love affair with conference
decals. If BYU got in tomorrow, we would instantly see Big XII logos all over
SLC and Provo. Had BYU got in the Pac 12, we would have seen blue P12 decals all
over SLC and Provo.Don't even try to refute that. That's a
steamroller said: "..if placed in a conference such as the Big 12, Cougars
and Cougar fans can wave goodbye to any bowl games, and they'll be at the
bottom of the conference."Neither of us know this as fact. You
would hope it true, I (maybe naïve) would wish it different with our
national reach for LDS high school athletes and others that want a BYU type
experience. The U recruiting has nothing special to offer that any P5 team
doesn't.We want a chance. And winning will get us one.Go BYU!
Sam the LamaniteNothing you nor some sportswriter from Austin said
bothers me.The Big 12 will move to expand whenever they decide
it's in their own best interest and if inviting BYU makes sense from a
financial and television market perspective (don't forget, television
markets are the overwhelming factor in conference alignment), then BYU will get
the invite. BYU's supposed "arrogance" won't be even a tiny
factor in the equation.
SportsFan,Is your problem with something that I said, or is it with
the words of the Austin, Texas-based sports writer that I quoted?
steamroller"DeepBlue...keep in mind that since the Utes joined
the PAC 12, they've kicked BYU's trash every year..."Keep in mind that's nothing but crimson glasses shaded spin.Since joining the PAC, Utah has had ONE dominating, Heaps meltdown win and
three skin of your teeth, lucky bounce wins by 1, 3 and 7 points, any one of
which, if not all three, could have easily gone BYU's way.
Sam the LamaniteLots of lame arguments there.Since when
is program "arrogance" a factor in determining conference membership?Every elite program in the country is arrogant.Every P5
program is arrogant.Even the Utes are arrogant, although they really
have nothing to be arrogant about, except their PAC 12 stickers.
Tomahawk RedIt's laughable that our little brothers on the hill
are so "concerned" with BYU's future.The truth is,
they're scared to death that BYU will be invited to join the Big 12 and
completely crush Utah's PAC 12 sticker campaign, which is the ONLY thing
Utah has been able to accomplish since joining the PAC.
This article, and the comments in response to it, don't address what is a
big obstacle in BYU getting a Big 12 invite - how BYU is viewed by the current
Big 12 members. Last week, a sports writer from Big 12 territory
said the following:"There is a thought among Big 12
administrators that BYU is hard to work with. I’ll tell you point blank, a
lot of people think Texas is arrogant. Some Big 12 people think BYU is arrogant,
as well. These are perceptions that have to be overcome before BYU, in my mind,
gets a serious audience with people in the Big 12."If that is
how BYU is perceived, then one must question whether the BYU Athletic Department
is the great missionary tool that many profess it to be.BYU has a
good enough athletic program to compete in a Big 5 conference, but it isn't
in the Big 12's best interest to have them join. If the other 4 power
conferences demand that the Big 12 have more than 10 members, and compete in a
conference championship game, then BYU may be invited.
(continued)Utah is figuring out it can't win championships in a 4
star league with 3 star players.BYU would find out the same thing in
the Big 12.So assuming the landscape doesn't change so
dramatically as to lock out independents all together, I have no issue with the
Y remaining independent. I enjoy the variety it affords. Perhaps after decades
of play in the Big 12 games each year against Kansas, Kansas St. and Baylor
would have more appeal, but I doubt it. It would be fun to play the top half of
the league every year but don't look forward to being locked into playing
the bottom half.While there are 60+ P5 schools, with the current
system fewer than 20 start the year with any chance of winning the NC and none
of them are from Utah. I know I have no expectations in that regard
and define success as a team that is entertaining and competitive on the field
with player who are good students and citizens off the field.Best of
luck to the Y and to the U in achieving that level of success.
BleedCougarBlue "But now with 2 conferences saying that BYU is not "good
enough" to play them..."Simply not true.The two
conferences are willing to play BYU. The didn't say BYU is not good enough
to play them. They said a game against BYU doesn't fulfill the requirement
to play a non-conference game against a P5-level team.
Truth is if the goal is to win a National Championship, neither BYU nor Utah has
a shot...none, zero. Utah is doomed because it can't compete in the PAC-12
and even if it has a miraculous season and wins the conference it would have to
win two more games against teams with superior athletes. Not going to happen.
With all the talk in recent years about Oregon and Stanford being elite teams,
neither has won a NC. Only one PAC-12 team has won a NC in the last 20 year,
USC. BYU can't win as an independent, at least as long as the
playoff is only 4 teams, because you'll never get an invite to the playoff.
SOS won't be high enough and the committee isn't going to leave two
conference champions home.Both Utah and BYU had a better chance as a
mid-major where a team with top 40 talent could win a NC (BYU) or get in a BCS
game (Utah) by playing a weaker schedule, going undefeated, and having a
signature win or two.
U-romney and other Ute fans demand humility from Y fans and chide us constantly
on these pages, but they continue to present a bleak situation and try to pass
it off as permanent. You don't know what will happen in college football,
yet your pride allows you to prognosticate it.I hope BYU gets its
chance to prove you all wrong. We shall see. Winning will get it done. If we
continue to lose all the big games, we don't get that chance.Go
ItrustNo1La Grange, TNWhile all of these average under
performing so called qualified members of these 5 conferences beat their chest
and play below average football, someone has to step up and smack them with a
little taste of reality.--------The reality that you
don't seem to understand is that if BYU joined the Big 12, they would
instantly become one of the P5 bottom dwellers you talk about.So
your argument is, the bottom P5 teams should be replaced with new bottom P5
teams. If BYU joined a P5 conference, they would be among the 10 or
15 worst P5 teams over the next several years.Great logic.LOL
scottAlpine, UTIt's fun watching the haters from the north work
themselves into a froth every time the national media starts another round of
discussions about BYU moving to a power conference.Despite their
denials, they all know it's only a matter of time.---------Another delusional fan. What's fun is watching desperate and
panicking Y fans like this make such wishful remarks.Your ONLY shot
at a power invite is the Big 12. And they said just last week they couldn't
be more lukewarm on the idea.But if that's what you mean by
'only matter of time'...LOL
Steven S Jarvis said, "The fallacy that Utah "earned" its invite to
the PAC12 is ridiculous"Steven, still having trouble coming to
terms with reality huh.
Wiscougarfan said "Funny that MyPerspective would diss on respected national
sportswriters for suggesting BYU is a P5 caliber team, when he/she most likely
supports Utah, who isn't a P5 caliber team."Hey Wisconsin,
please explain how the supposed P5 caliber team (BYU), keeps losing to that
supposed non-P5 caliber team (Utah) in football? That's funny
@ Wookie and MyPerspectiveBYU just wants the opportunity to play a
P5 schedule week in and week out to test our ability to recruit up to that
level. I think we could do at least as good as Utah with our reach to the LDS
high schoolers. We also did way better than avg in the MWC, especially as soon
as Bronco took over.You say that we are just as arrogant as Utah and
TCU was prior to finding out the reality of playing such a tough schedule.
You're also treating BYU like the "big boys" treated you prior to
your PAC-12 invite. Kind of hypocritical, don't you think?Neither knows how BYU would perform until we get our shot. Bronco is trying to
give us our best chance at being included.Go Cougs.
Anyone who thinks Utah hasn't or doesn't add value to the PAC 12 is
sadly mistaken. The TV shares in the greater SLC area certainly played into the
contract for the PAC 12 network and the revenue ($20 mil +) that the schools
recieve via the TV contractors for football. Utah also has one of the higher
attendance numbers for basketball in the conference.
BYU isn't ready for a big-time conference. Sorry. I just really feel that
way, and have been on the sideline of a lot of BYU history. We're fine
where we are. Maybe as things shake out here for about 5 years something will
come up, but until then just get good national exposure and it'll all work
out in the long run.
It continues to be so humorous to read the expected criticisms of the Ute
wannabe's concerning this subject. They wannabe a winning program again,
and they wannabe in a bowl game again. But neither thing appears imminent any
time soon. Not only that, but they are once again some of the first to comment
on this all-BYU article. Very humorous, indeed. So what do these Ute
fans do instead of succeeding as wannabe's? They try to speak for the Big
12, which carries about as much weight as they do in the PAC12. Not much at
all.Guess what, Ute fans. Most of the comments you are making to
this article are completely taken with a grain of salt. Their only value is for
the laughs they produce. Keep em coming. Literally no one is impressed.
MyPerspective:Spot on my friend. What many BYU fans fail to
recognize on these message boards is that Utah and TCU, during their years in
the MWC, beat up on most teams year after year, including BYU. Utah has kept up
this scenario in beating BYU every year since it joined the PAC12, and going on
4 straight wins. Now that Utah and TCU play touch teams week in and week out,
it is clear to those who live in reality, that even the middle tier teams, as
some would call them, are full of capable athletic player who are well coached,
and tough as nails to beat. Utah has learned a valuable lesson in humility as
to their status within these P5 schools, which is that the weekly grind exposes
your team to depth, athleticism and coaching. BYU, with its soft schedule, has
NO room to judge the talent level in these conferences, especially given their
record against PAC12 teams over the last few years. Sure, BYU can get up for
one big game every other week, but to play at that level weekly would seriously
expose BYU to their mediocrity.Go UTES!!
BleedCougarBlueEnid, OK"BYU, in my opinion, is in serious
jeopardy of being sent to the juniors table. That is simply
unacceptable.""Many Utah fans have either exceptionally
short memeories or they operate out of pure spite (take your pick) when they
foolishly try to claim that BYU is not at least as good as ANY conference's
middle-tier teams. That is just flat out unwarranted."Your
assertion is pure speculation of the highest order until byu has played
middle-tier P5 teams week after week. You have absolutely zero basis for that
argument. You people laugh at Utah losing games in the Pac-12 and don't
stop to consider that every loss handed to Utah and TCU validates the BCS case.
Your cougs can't beat the Utes so how in the world can you possibly claim
that byu is middle-tier caliber in a P5 conference? You can't. byu created the situation they are in and byu and its fans will have to live
with it. It's fun to watch you people beg, though. Oh, how the proud have
fallen! The next step is to find some humility.
Wisconsin Cougarfan, the point made was that Utah didn't "earn"
it's way into the PAC 12. Obviously the PAC 12 didn't care much about
what Utah did over thirty years ago but what they brought to the table in
current times. Again,that was two BCS bowl wins (one which made them the
original BCS Busters) and two undefeated seasons within the span of several
years. BYU had zero undefeated seasons, no BCS bowls (not even close) and
nothing to really distinguish them as TCU , Utah, and even Boise State did.Flaunt your 10 win seasons against mediocre talent all you want and if
you wish to consider things "fixed" because you think BYU was "one
win away" from a BCS bowl go at it. People remember Utah beating Alabama
and Boise State beating Oklahoma more than any "one win away" teams.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WIRE: Stringer Bell"I
have no problem that based on one decade of great football Utah got an invite to
the BCS, but to insinuate that BYU is somehow unworthy is disingenuous at
best."And how is byu "worthy" Wiscougarfan? Losing
games, any games, with a dumbed down MWC schedule for the last 10 years is
hardly noteworthy. Fail. The Pac-12 is well beyond byu's reach. Fail.
What exactly are you calling disingenuous?
@WiscCougFair Enough. I love watching sports on Sunday; especially
the Seahawks. To each his own. Thanks for the response.
BYU is has a lifetime W/L record of 5-1 against Oklahoma and Texas. The
BYU-Texas game last year humiliated Texas. With Texas on guard and ready for
payback, if BYU comes back and smacks Texas against on their home field it sends
a strong message that BYU deserves to be respected by the Power5 conferences.
It makes it hard for the Big12 to say that BYU doesn't belong.
@ atlcoug - Atlanta, GA - "I gotta agree with Two For Flinching, that is an
awful slogan - one that would turn off any non-Mormon, and many of us who are
LDS. Wow, it sounds terribly condescending. That is NOT the way to get
"in" with the Big 12, or anyone else!"Settle down.
I'm pretty sure that is something known as "humor".
I bleed Cougar blue (hence my screen name) and I think going independent was a
brilliant move at the time.But now with 2 conferences saying that
BYU is not "good enough" to play them (have they looked at the middle
and bottom tiers of their own conferences???) has changed things.BYU, in my opinion, is in serious jeopardy of being sent to the juniors table.
That is simply unacceptable. First and foremost, they absolutely MUST win games
and that includes a sizeable share (I'd say maybe 25-30%?) of BIG games.
Second, I agree that they need to keep up the pressure by talking about getting
into a conference.Many Utah fans have either exceptionally short
memeories or they operate out of pure spite (take your pick) when they foolishly
try to claim that BYU is not at least as good as ANY conference's
middle-tier teams. That is just flat out unwarranted.It isn't
"false allegience", folks, it's called "history" and the
games to prove it are all on tape.
It will happen some day in the next 10 years.
"They made it clear just last week there isn't a single mid major that
would add enough value to their conference to justify inviting them."What they actually said is that there isn't a non-P5 school out
there that would add enough financial value. They said financially they are
better off with the 10 they have right now than they would be if they added
2.You make it sound as if they added no value at all, which simply
RE: Stringer Bell"BYU has only one undefeated season in the
school's history thirty years ago, was never close to a BCS bowl, and loses
to the likes of Virginia, a school that was otherwise winless. Fix those things
and then you may "earn" your way in too."I have no
problem that based on one decade of great football Utah got an invite to the
BCS, but to insinuate that BYU is somehow unworthy is disingenuous at best. Regarding your criteria: Winning seasons and BCS bowls. BYU has 10+
wins in six of the last eight seasons (while Utah had three, and six total in
their entire history). BYU was a Luke Staley injury (one loss) away from a BCS
bowl in 2001, and one win away from possible BCS bowl invites in 2006, 2007, and
2009. Remember that the SOS for BYU during these years is very comparable to
Utah's SOS prior to joining the PAC12. Regarding BYU's
one really bad loss in the decade... In the BCS era alone Utah has lost to
Wyoming (three times), Colorado State (x5, including four straight) New Mexico
(x4), and a 2-10 UNLV team. So I guess we should consider things
Steve Jarvis "The fallacy that Utah "earned" its invite to the
PAC12 is ridiculous."First, Colorado was already a P5 school.
They just moved from one conference to another. In addition, as previously
mentioned they have a National Championship that is more recent than BYU's
and they bring the Denver market.Utah had two undefeated seasons and
two BCS bowl wins in the span of several years and brought the complement of the
Intermountain west market along with Colorado.BYU has only one
undefeated season in the school's history thirty years ago, was never close
to a BCS bowl, and loses to the likes of Virginia, a school that was otherwise
winless. Fix those things and then you may "earn" your way in too.
Steven S JarvisOrem, UT"The fallacy that Utah
"earned" its invite to the PAC12 is ridiculous.Colorado was
picked BEFORE Utah. What had Colorado done the past decade prior to being
courted by the PAC? They were among the worse performing colleges in all of
division I. If losing was the pedigree that got Colorado in then why didn't
the PAC12 simply invite another losing program?"Then you are
among the few byu fans who understands that it takes more, a lot more, to be a
part of the Pac-12 than just sports. Bravo, to you, sir...bravo!As
for the rest of your rant, contingency or not...Utah is in an elite conference
and byu and its fans are left wanting. Too bad.
SoonerUteSalt Lake City, UT"One can't blame Bronco
for expressing his opinion as a football coach. However, Bronco's comments
undermine Tom Holmoe's efforts to build an independent schedule." It is interesting - and odd - that no reporter has asked Tom Holmoe or
Kevin Worthen to comment on Bronco's remarks. Is the ball rolling? Or did
Bronco go rogue?"Great point, SoonerUte. I was shocked when I
read the full article that quoted Mendenhall. He actually made reference other
byu athletic departments by saying "my basketball coaches." Yet, here
we are commenting on an article that labels Mendenhall a hero. LOL!
RE: Spokane Ute"Do you watch Dennis Pitta play for the Baltimore
Ravens on Sunday? What's the difference? Just curious."No I
don't, and I named my oldest son after a former BYU football player who
chose not to play on Sundays. That being said, I am a fan of Steve Young, Dale
Murphy, Jimmer, Jabari, and many others who make their living playing sports
(even on the Sabbath). I love that "keeping the Sabbath day holy" is a
commandment that allows personal interpretation.That being said,
there is a greater difference here than my own standards or beliefs. BYU has a
long-standing tradition of not playing on Sunday. To change that position now
because of peer/media pressure would destroy the integrity of the institution.
It's true that few other institutions (even religious ones) have no problem
with the policy. To me it's a matter of integrity and I would be deeply
saddened if BYU sold out.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WI"Let's be honest, if the
Big 12 was forced to take any team from Utah as a new member of their
conference, there is virtually no chance they would choose Utah over
BYU."Based on the way the college football landscape is shaping
up, you are correct...the Big12 would have to be "forced" to take byu.
As for Utah, there is absolutely no reason on this earth to even
suggest that Utah would move to the Big12. That's just plain silly.
Steven S Jarvis "What had Colorado done the past decade prior to being
courted by the PAC?"Thank you for placing a stake in the ground that
past National Championships don't matter. They don't count for
Colorado, and they don't count for BYU.Overall, kind of an odd
post for a BYU fan. I think BYU and Utah should have joined the PAC together,
and that BYU's "beef" is really with Colorado. Reading your post,
Colorado was the number one choice, and they could only take one Salt Lake
market team, so they took the best... Utah. Thanks for the respect!As for your PAC10-Big12 theory, the author of Bronco's Austin Statesman
article noted that it made sense for football, but Oklahoma and Texas considered
the other sports too. For example, they didn't want to send volleyball
teams to Washington. The travel expense for the smaller sports programs ended
interest in the PAC. It wasn't about "you need to take Baylor".
Tom2:I actually factored in a two extra home games on top of the 3
that they are guaranteed under the ESPN contract. Thus, I may be off a million
dollar or so, but you're missing my point. The value to which BYU would
bring to the Big12 has already been repudiated by the Big12 in stating that no
"mid-major" university brings value to the Big12. This statement, was
reiterated again and again nationally. I do not think that BYU or Bronco for
that matter did any favor, as a matter of fact it just reiterated that BYU is
NOT the program that they or their fans think they are. Bronco could do himself
a favor and develop more humility both on and off the field. He rarely, if
ever, gives credit to the opposing team, rather he states that his team
didn't execute. Sometimes, as we Utah fans have grown to understand as
part of the PAC12, some teams are better coached, have better athletes, and just
flat out play a better game. TCU and Utah have learned this lesson. Go UTES!!
Steve Jarvis & Wisconsin CougDo you watch Dennis Pitta play for
the Baltimore Ravens on Sunday? What's the difference? Just curious.
The fallacy that Utah "earned" its invite to the PAC12 is ridiculous.Colorado was picked BEFORE Utah. What had Colorado done the past decade
prior to being courted by the PAC? They were among the worse performing
colleges in all of division I. If losing was the pedigree that got Colorado in
then why didn't the PAC12 simply invite another losing program?We all KNOW that the choice to take Utah was a contingency plan if the move to
get Colorado wasn't enough to break the Big12. The PAC12 took Utah not
because of what the school had done on the field, but to balance out the
Colorado team AND to add television sets to any future TV contract talks. The
PAC12 wanted Texas and Oklahoma to commit. They should have grabbed Baylor
instead of Colorado.
I would love for BYU to be invited into the Big XII. Imagine the excitement that
it would breath into the rivalry: Big XII vs Pac 12. As of right now, Utah is in
a tough place with the Holy War, they have nothing to gain and everything to
lose. Also...if BYU were in the Big XII Larry Scott would probably think twice
about allowing the game to be played in November rather than September. Also I wouldn't mind watching the Cougar fans eat some crow after
they realize what it's like to compete in a power conference week in and
week out. All I know is TCU isn't doing too hot and they ate BYU's
lunch in the Mountain West.
If byu had won some of the games vs Virginia, Utah, Wisconsin, ND and Washington
then maybe they could force a discussion.
Nate Gagon "BYU coach Bronco Mendenhall hit a public relations home
run"Home run, or nightmare?One can't blame Bronco for
expressing his opinion as a football coach. However, Bronco's comments
undermine Tom Holmoe's efforts to build an independent schedule. As he
tries to schedule games, he may be met with "Are you going to be able to
honor this contract? Your football coach said you don't want to be
independent." It is interesting - and odd - that no reporter
has asked Tom Holmoe or Kevin Worthen to comment on Bronco's remarks. Is
the ball rolling? Or did Bronco go rogue? If the football team is a missionary
tool, how well can the mission be served as a 2-7 member of the Big 12?
Wookie:You are clearly looking for someone to bite, so here goes.You have only accounted for the games on ESPN or ESPN2. There are
agreements to televise other games on ESPNU or ESPN3. I am sure that those
games are not for free, but I do find it interesting that as a Ute fan you know
more about BYU's television contract than I do as a pretty rabid BYU
fan.You have also neglected to mention that the Big 12 is not
currently paying TCU and WVU a full share of the money, and the television
contract is based on previous members and a championship game. There is no
guarantee that they will continue to make that amount of money after the
contract is renegotiated. Obviously I cannot guarantee that they won't
make it, that is called uncertainty and why many are saying the Big 12 needs to
consider the options.I find it interesting that you consider this
question unintelligent on its face when many national pundits, that make their
living covering college football, disagree with you. What makes you so much
smarter than them?
As a guest to the state of Utah the last couple of years, and a sports fan, I
have heard that BYU fans have no sense of humor. Those people talking about the
"Apostle" slogan as though the author was being serious about the idea
are quite proving that BYU fans have no sense of humor. You have to be kidding
me. Learn to laugh a little and recognize a joke!
@Wookie,Absolutely Not!!BYU will never compromise on
Sunday play. I wouldn't watch the Cougars play on Sunday even if the
church allowed it to do so.Frankly, joining the Big12 isn't the
best current option. Staying independent is. We control the scheduling (which
admittedly is tough) and have access to the New Year bowls. At least for the
first two years of the playoffs, BYU has a fair shot of being in IF they win all
their games. BYU will also need to control the discussion of WHY they are a
power program. Its ludicrous that schools that always appear needy and near the
bottom of their leagues most years like Cal, Colorado, Utah are power schools
while better programs like Boise State, Navy, BYU, UCF are not. I just want BYU
to go out and win and win. Force their way into the playoiffs AS AN
ItrustNo1La Grange, TN"BYU has to press the envelope on
this. If not for any other reason than because what the so called major five
conferences are trying to sell doesn't add up. Just because Washington
State, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Utah, Cal,Arizona,
Colorado,Indiana,Perdue,Georgia Tech, Maryland etc., etc., are in these five
conferences obviously does not mean they are any better teams than the Boise
State, BYU, Fresno State, CFUs of College football." If you feel
that way about Utah, Cal, Arizona, GT, etc., explain to this board why any of
the P5 conference should add byu to the mix. "They just happen
to be lucky enough to be in one of these so called top 5 conferences." Wow. Ok, Utah and TCU are the newest invitees. I don't know
enough about the Big12 or TCU to comment but Utah earned it's way to the
Pac-12 both on and off the field. Luck has nothing to do with it. byu fans are
challenged to grasp the concept of 'earning' what you receive. They
believe strongly in entitlements as this article and the dozens that preceded it
RE: Wookie"Let me ask this question of the BYU fans posting to
this article. Would you support the move to the Big12 if the Big12 required BYU
to play on Sundays? What if BYU agreed to play on Sundays, what would your
opinion be then?"I don't speak for Cougarnation, but I
believe most of us would want no part of a conference that required Sunday play.
It's never going to happen but if BYU DID agree to Sundays I would be very
disappointed in the school and its leadership. I would likely stop supporting
their programs and move on (good thing I have my Badgers to fall back on).
Funny that MyPerspective would diss on respected national sportswriters for
suggesting BYU is a P5 caliber team, when he/she most likely supports Utah, who
isn't a P5 caliber team. Let's be honest, if the Big 12 was forced to
take any team from Utah as a new member of their conference, there is virtually
no chance they would choose Utah over BYU.
Just to put into perspective, BYU's deal with ESPN pays them around
$800,000 to $1,200,000 per televised home game. The minimum is 3 home games
will be televised per year. Thus, each BIG 12 team received over 20 million in
shared revenue whereas BYU saw anywhere from $2,400,000 to $6,000,000 last year.
You do the math and tell me, does it make sense to include BYU when ESPN has
alread shown the value that BYU brings to the table with its deal? Clearly, any
educated reasonable person would say the inclusion of BYU does not make sense no
matter how much they beg. No institution is willing to sacrifice money when
schools are struggling as is in todays economics.Go UTES!
Wow, something crazy in the water today--I agree with both of Two For
Flinching's posts, 1) the whole apostle thing was really bad and
embarrassing, 2) independence was once a good idea and now BYU is needing to
make adjustments. Kudos 2fer. I agree with many that getting the
ball rolling via speaking out publicly was a good idea, even if it didn't
have TH and others' support. BYU needs to be positioned to where they can
join a conference if the landscape changes again drastically in the next year or
two (P5 becomes clone of BCS, new division formed, playoffs aren't
equitable, etc). This was a good move by Bronco. Go Cougs!
Let me ask this question of the BYU fans posting to this article. Would you
support the move to the Big12 if the Big12 required BYU to play on Sundays?
What if BYU agreed to play on Sundays, what would your opinion be then? I'm most interested in hearing from Y Dad/ Y Grad and
Duckhunter.Just curious.Go UTES!
BYU has to press the envelope on this. If not for any other reason than because
what the so called major five conferences are trying to sell doesn't add
up. Just because Washington State, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Utah,
Cal,Arizona, Colorado,Indiana,Perdue,Georgia Tech, Maryland etc., etc., are in
these five conferences obviously does not mean they are any better teams than
the Boise State, BYU, Fresno State, CFUs of College football. They just happen
to be lucky enough to be in one of these so called top 5 conferences. Only the
very top few teams in those conferences can come even close to justifying what
they are trying to sell. How can a hand full of teams at the top of these five
conferences turn College football on its ear, walking away with all the money,
without the many more deserving College teams yelling FOUL? It doesn't pass
the smell test. While all of these average under performing so called qualified
members of these 5 conferences beat their chest and play below average football,
someone has to step up and smack them with a little taste of reality.
It is plain and simple to discuss why the Big 12 will not permit for BYU to join
the conference. ESPN has clearly shown the value that BYU brings to the table
through its agreement with BYU. The money that they pay to BYU does not come
close to the money that the BIG 12 schools earned in one year alone. Why would
the BIG 12 split their revenue to a lesser program? They would essentially be
paying BYU to be a member of its conference rather than earning revenue due to
its inclusion. College sports is about money and the ROI with the inclusion of
BYU makes no sense. As for the U and the PAC12 money, this was a win for the U
no doubt, as the ROI for the U, at least for now, would be like the BIG 12
including the Y. This is a no brainer. Aside from that, it is too far for most
schools to travel and their fans, it just won't happen. Sorry BYU, time to
get used to independence and accept your decision. GO UTES!!
BYU at this stage just needs to consistently win games. They need to make it
hard to not have them included in the playoff discussion. We already know there
will be complaints about BYU's schedule and we already know that those
complaints will come from teams/fans that don't have BYU on their schedule.
Best answer is to chalk up wins. All the talk in the world won't get it
done. Winning games will.
"The more closely the facts are examined and discussed, the better for the
Cougars. As SI.com’s Stewart Mandel said in a recent article, BYU
“in terms of history and resources shares far more in common with
Washington than it does with Wyoming.”On or off the field, byu
has nothing in common with Washington...sports writers, sheesh!This
article raises an interesting strategy. Since byu can't make it on its own
merits, they can brow beat the Big12 into submission with a good media blitz.
That strategy certainly epitomizes 'Tradition and Honor' the byu way.
Its articles like this that make me embarrassed to call myself a BYU fan.
I gotta agree with Two For Flinching, that is an awful slogan - one that would
turn off any non-Mormon, and many of us who are LDS. Wow, it sounds terribly
condescending. That is NOT the way to get "in" with the Big 12, or
Whoever is of the mentality that why would they split the pie 12 ways vs. 10
doesn't get the vision of what two more programs the caliber of BYU and a
championship game in the Cowboys stadium every year could bring. Also I
don't believe the other conferences with 12 , 14 or 16 are going to stand
pat and let the Big 12 avoid risk by not having to play through a championship
game. The Big 12 says they're comfortable with the current model, why
would other conferences allow it?
@ 65TossPowerTrapBYU got more exposure and a whole lot more money
after going indy. Not only are they employed, they probably got a raise. At
the time, going independent was BYU's best move, by far. Now the landscape
has changed and BYU is trying to make an adjustment.
It may be true that BYU and coach Mendenhall got the "ball rolling";
however, if the ball is to continue rolling it can only do so by going downhill!
BlueHusky, I like the idea too. I'm just afraid that the ACC and SEC have
now set a precedent by pretty much declaring BYU an unworthy opponent (or too
dangerous) with no real advantage to be gained on a national scale by playing
them. Other conferences may easily buy into this perception. BYU is just too
risky to have on your schedule.Now that they've secured a few
marquee matchups with the Big Ten, they have to capitalize to reverse that
perception. That may be their best bet.
It's fun watching the haters from the north work themselves into a froth
every time the national media starts another round of discussions about BYU
moving to a power conference.Despite their denials, they all know
it's only a matter of time.
So who initiated this independence thing? Are they still employed at BYU? If
Face up fans, it's all about the money. I think ESPN can and will
structure their contract with the Y to make any deal work that will benefit the
Y and the network. The player here is ESPN not BYU. They could allow us to
earn our money from them and not even touch the conference monies until down the
road or if ever should ESPN continue to contract with us. That would give the
BIG 12 a chance to bring in another team for championship game. Also another
player could be Jerry Jones who owns the "biggest" stadium in the Big 12
and would love to have a championship game every year. So it's not just up
to the Y and the Big 12 the other players could make this happen.
In the interim, I like the Tulsa suggestion that BYU have an arrangement like
Notre Dame has with ACC. 5 games with B12, splitting home and away as in 2
Provo, 3 B12 then next year 3 Provo, 2 B12, repeat.I like that a lot
and it would create ESPN and B12 telecasts (depending on contracts), bring BYU
fans to B12 stadiums and provide a nice trip to B12 fans.Most of
all, BYU brings $$$.
I thought Nate's idea about creating a Facebook page was a good one, so I
went ahead and did just that (search for it on Facebook under BYU to Big 12).
I'm not sure how much good it will do, but I figure at this point it
certainly can't hurt any. I know there is a lot of anti-BYU sentiment
amongst the Big 12 AD's, and BYU hasn't done much to combat the
negative mindset many of them have with the insistence on having broadcast
rights, etc.; however, I really feel that BYU needs to join a vibrant conference
and the Big 12 seems like it would be a good fit. I appreciate the increased
exposure that going Independent has brought BYU, but with the conferences
beginning to limit the amount of non-conference games the schools can schedule,
it's only going to get more and more difficult for BYU to have a worthwhile
schedule that leads to any sort of recognition. Playing games against schools
that barely qualify as a glorified High School just isn't going to cut it.
I'm betting the PR campaign to get into a conference will ultimately
work.And I would not be too surprised to see the Big 12 bite.BYU needs to win the big games this year.
2ferWe found some common ground today. Couldn't agree more, it
was awful.Dnews... I don't go for stupid religious humor. It
If BYU were invited to the Big Twelve, would "Big Twelve Call Yet?"
change his screen name?I have really enjoyed BYU independence and the
variety of opponents and the unbelievable television coverage but could also get
to like a conference affiliation. But my being a BYU fan doesn't depend
upon a Big 12 or any other conference affiliation. College athletics,
especially football, reeks of corruption. BYU needs to plot a course that
agrees with the higher principles of athletic competition, enjoy the benefits of
that competition and forge important relationships with a variety of schools and
programs. Whatever else may be true, BYU is a unique institution representing a
unique religious culture and tradition. If membership in the Big 12 or any other
conference recognizes that uniqueness, then BYU should consider membership.
They should not compromise and under no circumstance beg (like some have) to
join the Big 12 or any other conference.
IF the Big 12 chooses to expand, they might be interested.But right
now the Big 12 makes the most money per school of any conference and has no
incentive to change things unless the NCAA comes out with the ruling (due soon)
that you still need 12 members to have a championship game. If 12 teams will
still be required then the Big 12 might look at expansion to have a better shot
at the four slots for the national championship as the other four conferences
have championship games. Otherwise, why would they expand?
ball rolling?The only problem is everyone just wants byu to grab
their ball and go home.
Cougsndawgs West Point , UTWell said. Wins on the field.
Lose stupid games, and there isn't enouugh PR in the world to get it done.
Winning is half the battle.I think there may be a fine line between
keeping the focus on, as opposed to keeping the pressure on. As much as
possible, BYU needs to make it a positive campaign. Who was it a while back,
their slogan was "Any team, any where." Positive focus, oblique
There is only one thing preventing byu from joining the Big 12: The big 12 does
not want to invite byu.They made it clear just last week there
isn't a single mid major that would add enough value to their conference to
justify inviting them.None.
The article makes a good point. We can all argue about whether BYU deserves to
be at the table but the fact it was a positive PR move by Mendenhall and BYU is
indisputable. The amount of attention it garnered and how much it was talked
about prove that. Now what BYU needs to do is let their play on the field do
some talking as well.