Published: Monday, June 16 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT
No one is suggesting anyone is an "it" - we are merely suggesting that
women and men are equal in value and worth.No one is trying to erase
gender or the differences between the genders - we are simply trying to erase
the inequality with which those differences are treated.You extol
the virtues of the many great women you have known in your life - but at the
same time imply that women who behave differently from those you revere are
somehow less than real women.All humans, regardless of their
genders, have value. All humans, regardless of the role they play in their
families, have worth. Women can fulfill the roles you extol or they can fulfill
other roles - which roles they fill does not lessen their value or worth. Those who seek to force women to act in certain manner by denying them
value for not acting in that manner, are the ones who are degrading women and
The LTE writer is lucky to have had a good marriage, and good role models.However, he confuses gender role models from gender role compulsion.
Not all woman wish to be mothers. Not all woman wish to be stay at home moms.
In fact, some woman can not be stay at home moms due to economic problems. To
compel any human being into a strict gender role as identified by this
person's obvious faith tradition is cruel. Nobody really wins in the long
run.If strong families are the goal, then efforts should be made by
all levels of society to support those families in whatever from they may take.
Be it the more "traditional" mom at home, dad the bread winner model, or
the more recent iterations which includes same sex households with kids, all
should be supported by government, churches, schools, and all our common
In the 1970's women players made up about 10% of major American orchestras.
Everyone knew that women didn't have the stamina for the strings, and
lacked the lung capacity to power the piccolos.But after screens
were set up to facilitate "blind auditions" the number of women in
orchestras started to rise, and by the 1990's women made up about 35% of
orchestras!Studies have shown that blind auditions increase the odds
of women being selected by about 50%!Sometimes its good to erase
The letter writer here is a perfect example of what is driving much of the
discord in America today. My world is the way the world should be. It
made/makes me happy so therefore it's the way. The view is affectionately
called living in a bubble, but it's simply in most cases not being
conversant or familiar with other circumstances except as aberrations of the way
things should be. It takes a great deal of humility to look at
others without the shield of your own convictions. It's dangerous to those
convictions and the very reason institutions discourage members from doing so.
However it's also very liberating. If you develop the ability
to engage the world in such a way you find that sometimes your convictions are
confirmed and sometimes they aren't. However the new idea changes your
world for the better.
The letter writer pointed out that our VALUE in society is related to our ROLE
in society. He wrote about women who made a difference to their families and to
people around them by fulfilling the role appointed to them because of their
gender. They were mothers. They were role models to their sons and daughters.
They were not diminished because they fulfilled their role. They were magnified
by being what God had intended them to be.As modern prophets have
told us in "The Family: A Proclamation to the World":"All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of
God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such,
each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of
individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. . . We further
declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be
employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and
wife."Those are the words of God given to us through His
prophets. Arguments to the contrary notwithstanding, when God speaks the issue
@ Mike: Women have value because they are human beings - if you and your God
are unable to see that, then I feel very sorry for the both of you.
George Orwell wrote: "The further a society drifts from the
truth, the more it will hate those that speak it."
"They were not diminished because they fulfilled their role."And while many engage you for various reason here is why none respect you.
I am sure both your mother and your wife were wonderful women, wives, and
mothers. Did you ever ask them if they found their lives fulfilling? Did you
ever wonder if there was something your mother would have liked to do that was
denied her because she was busy with what had to be done? It is ingenious to
assume that someone who does not complain about their lot in life - who in fact
may be satisfied 99 percent of the time - did not sometimes resent the rules
society imposed upon her.
Kally I would like to commend you on that post. It was incredibly well written
and expressed my own thoughts better than I could have hoped to express them.
Thank you for being an oasis of rationality and truthfulness in a place usually
devoid of both - or even an understanding of them.
We just celebrated Father's Day yesterday. We gave honor to those men who
sacrificed so that we could enjoy life. I know that my father stopped trying to
"please himself" when he married. His goal was to provide for his wife
an honorable husband, to care for her needs, to do his part in society and to
welcome into his home all the children that God sent. Before marrying, he had
dreams of being great in business, but he put those dreams aside so that he
could provide a stable household for his family.The result is that
at the end of his life, he looked back and realized that raising a family and
teaching that family correct principles was life's greatest reward. He
knew that he had spared no effort to fulfill his role as father and that he had
not acted selfishly while fulfilling that role.Some scoff at
"fulling roles", especially the roles that God, our Father, gave us. I
appreciate God's concern for his children and his directions to us. I
don't look for gods who agree with me.
@Kally,Re: "women and men are equal in value and worth."Nobody's contending the contrary. So you are arguing a strawman argument
nobody's trying to make, and creating contention where none exists.God loves every child the same (as a good parent would, regardless of
gender).Mormons love every person the same (regardless of gender) as
God has taught us.That doesn't mean we must reject what God has
taught about the family, gender roles, the family, how he designed us, and what
he has taught us from the beginning of time (because today we are so modern and
sophisticated... his advice teachings no longer fit).Google "The
family: A Proclamation to the world"...You will see
re-affirmations of what we has been taught since Adam. Things like..."We solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained
of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the
eternal destiny of His children""Gender is an essential
characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and
purpose""HUSBAND AND WIFE have a solemn responsibility to
love and care for each other and for their children."Etc...
To "Kally" but we do treat men and women differently. Men and women act
differently too, FYI.They both have the same protections under the
law, but that is not what the letter was addressing.The problem is
that because of the push for equality, we have destroyed the respect that women
once received simply because they were women.For example, it used to
be shameful if a man couldn't earn enough to support his family. Now,
women are expected to have careers outside the home. Men used to feel obligated
to pay for dates, and to show his date respect. Now, men are expected to pay
for a date or two, then the cost of dates are shared, and respect is shown for
the first couple of dates or until the girl sleeps with the guy. Men used to
persue women, now it is a free-for-all, where women are just as agressive as
men.As a society we have traded respect for women into competition
with women. That isn't realy a good thing when you step back and look at
what it is doing.
Red Shirt, "It used to be shameful if a man couldn't earn enough to
support his family."And that was all he was expected to do. A
father was not expected to spend time with his children; they were fed and put
to bed before he returned from his job. A man could treat his wife however he
wanted; legally she was his property.Acknowledging that women have
equal worth to men actually requires men to respect women as people.
Thank you Kally, no work performed will ever be as enduring as that of mothers
and fathers, husbands and wives, dedicating their lives towards the greater good
of their posterity. Generations will always look back with thankful hearts for
those parents that left legacies of service and sacrifice for their posterity.
Our communities should do all that it can to encourage commitment, love, and
responsibility is fostered in the family, that they may be passed on to our
To "GZE" I am talking the type of respect that and expectations that
society had prior to the 1970's and 1980's. Not the attitudes of 1100
@MikeRichards;Prove that the "proclamation" is the word of
god and not just the "opinion" of your current leadership (I'm
betting that in not that far a future, we're going to see an
"essay" indicating that it was only the "opinion/policy" of your
church, just as was done for the "Blacks and the Priesthood" issue. In
any case, all we have is your word that it is the word of god, the LDS
leadership NEVER came out and wrote "God Says:" when they issued their
Being masculine or feminine isn't gender specific. Most people that are
one or the other prefer the opposite. Most masculine people are fulfilled most
when paired with a someone whose feminine qualities complement theirs.
It's the human way. To me it seems like somewhere along the line the
political correct people have been frowning on those who are too feminine or too
masculine. That is a mistake. Learn, know, and then decide.
@ RedshirtIt used to be shameful to shut down the government. It
used to be shameful to lie and slander the President. It used to be shameful to
use American deaths to attack the other party. It used to be shameful to
obstruct government and use obstructionism not governance as a measuring stick
for success. It used to be shameful to trust in big industry rather than
scientists. It used to be shameful to put rich people ahead of the American
middle class.Many things have changed in this country.
Unfortunately, while I've never leaves the Republican Party, sadly, the
Republican Party has left me.
@RanchHand,The proclamation on the family is what it is... To some
it's important, to others it's nothing.Nobody's
telling you to accept it, or forcing you to accept it (those who don't
believe in Prophets). But for people who claim to accept the source of the
proclamation... it's an important thing. So don't belittle it.
Nobody's saying you have to accept it. But it's worth bringing up...
since many people reading these pages respect what the prophet says more than
what WE say.===I think it's valid to bring up what
the Prophet has said on the topic (same as what prophets since the begining have
said). But don't mistake that for me saying you have to believe like I
believe. I'm sharing it with other believers.====The prophet is just saying that there are gender differences, but both genders
deserve the same respect and both have the same value (to him). I don't
see why that would upset you, or anybody.They may have different
roles in the family... but both have the same "worth" to him...
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