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Letter: Value of gender

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  • RedWings CLEARFIELD, UT
    June 19, 2014 11:34 a.m.

    What is sad is how the Left has demonized women who choose to stay home with their children and fill those traditional roles. My wife and I decided together - as equals - that she would stay home after the business she worked at closed.

    I know this is something that the left cannot get their minds around - A woman actually shoosing to be with her kids, and a man actually treating his wife that is at home with respect, love, and dedication.

    Sorry, but it does actually happen. And your world isn't destroyed by it...

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2014 10:07 a.m.

    pragmatistferlife

    "My wife and I were discussing this letter and the responses last night and she pointed out again that the idea that a women has a role is the height of objectification, and when that role includes wife it implicitly is sexual objectification."

    So when she expects you to play your role of husband, protector, breadwinner and lover; is she sexually objectifying you? Or is this just another example of someone unquestioningly buying into feminist passive/aggression that divides the world into three genders; men, victims and "its".

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2014 8:58 a.m.

    @Kally

    While you make great points, your post also exposes naivete' in assuming that one cannot hate in the name of feminism just as effectively as is done in the name of motherhood.

    Underlying feminist beliefs that an ideal woman neuters her reproductive system, terminates inconvenient children and behaves like a man represent the ultimate in politically correct misogyny. The belief that traditional roles such as full time motherhood are problems to be cured with quotas and social programs may be fashionably intolerant; but they are still intolerant.



    Feminist fundamentalism relies on an incredible amount of intellectual dishonesty and passive/aggression; screaming sexist, every time someone questions rigid dogma, in much the same way myopic Obama supporters screech "racist" every time someone notices the reality of his inadequacy for the job.

    The newest cause celeb, transgender rights; is directly in conflict with the allegation that no one is proposing a bunch of "its". There truly is an extremist constituency that hates gender and wants to devalue it (complete with self identifying bathrooms).

    Men and women are equally important but they are not the same thing; a reality that gender bullies and many DN posters simply cannot comprehend.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    June 18, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    To "Furry1993" I hate to break it to you, but a man and woman will never parent a child "equally". That is why a child needs both a mother and a father. Just go to your local swimming pool. The men will let the kids find their limits while the women watch over their children to ensure no harm.

    How can you be both full time parents and have full time careers? You may not think you neglect one or the other, but you do. If you are at home working, are you interacting with your child? If you are interacting with your child while working, are you giving your client the attention that they are paying you for? You see, the fallacy you have sucked into is that you can have a full time job and be a full time parent, when the truth is that you will end up neglecting parent responsibilities or your job.

    Look at it this way. You are at home writing a deposition, and your children want you to read and play with thim, your deadline is tomorrow. What do you sacrifice to meet your career goals? Just being home is not parenting.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    June 18, 2014 12:31 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701 8:34 a.m. June 18, 2014

    Yes our children are people, and they were cared for as people by a parenting unit composed of EQUAL parenting by both of their parents, while both of their parents also had the opportunity for personal fulfillment in much-enjoyed careers. The best of all worlds, in other words -- because of the way we were able to schecdule our time, we both were able to be full-time parents and also have full-time careers.

    But, getting to the issues you raised -- which parent do you think should have to give up a career to tend a child? Why choose one parent over the other? Why not the other parent?

    And, by the way, gender roles are indeed arbitrary. Each person is different, and has different attributes. None are inherently male or inherently female, although a lot of training goes into how people "assume" the roles in adulthood that they are expected to take. Because of the way my husband and I were raised, we came into our marriage tabla rasa as far as gender roles are concerned, and we both ended up directly the opposite of the roles you suggest for each gender.

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    My mother, grandmother, great grandmother were all wonderful strong women who loved staying at home and being Mom. I have a sister who had no choice, she had to work to support her kids! So, do you think she should be treated the same as a man when it comes to her work? Of course, everything isn't going to be exactly equal. It isn't equal between men either! The idea is to treat people as fairly as we can, and because of people who think like you do, women are often treated less than what they should be! Just because men feel that women should be content as a housewife all her life, doesn't mean that she has to accept it. As a man. I have worked with many women. I have had women supervisors. It, almost always, has been a good experience for me. Men should get past their big egos and treat women like they should, and yes, in many cases, they can do as well or better than a man!

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    June 18, 2014 8:34 a.m.

    To "Furry1993" if you feel forced to stay home with your own children, maybe you shouldn't be having children. Children are not pets or livestock, you shouldn't feel "forced" to do anything with them or for them. They are people that have needs and guidance as they grow into adulthood.

    Lets look at being a parent like a job. Tell us, who is able to accomplish more, a part time lawyer or a full time lawyer? Now, tell us, who is able to give a child all the love and care they need, a part time parent or a full time parent?

    Gender roles are not arbitrary. Women are naturally more loving, caring, and nurturing than men are. Men are naturally more strict and provide boundaries for thier children.

    You may reject the idea of gender roles, but there is a natural predisposition for gender roles.

    Tell me what is more noble, a parent that sacrifices their career aspirations to care for their children or the parent that persues a career and is only a part-time parent?

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    June 17, 2014 4:20 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701 1:31 p.m. June 17, 2014

    One more thing to add. You apparently assign a lot of importance to gender roles but don't really realize the problems that arbitrary gender roles cause. Gender rolls are arbitrary assignments of supposed characteristics and interests to men and women without really understanding how inaccurate those assignments can be. In effect, gender rolls do the job of forcing square pegs into round holes.

    In fact there is more difference within each gender than there is between the two genders. Assigning characteristics and interests based on gender works a severe disservice to members of both genders. For that reason my husband and I strongly reject the idea of gender roles and just live our lives as we really are. More people should do the same.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    June 17, 2014 3:55 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701 1:31 p.m. June 17, 2014

    So which parent would you want to force to stay home frustrated because s/he had been turned into a house slave unable to reach personal fulfillment in a much-loved career just to tend children?

    My husband and solved the issue in a different manner. We did a good part of our work at home, I as a lawyer and my husband as a tax accountant, and we scheduled our out-of-home-office work around each other's schedule. Each of us was able to find personal fulfillment in a career while we also raised our children ourselves. We also share equal parenting and child-raising time. With more working from home through the internet being possible now it looks like this problem will hopefully soon be mitigated.

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2014 2:53 p.m.

    There is a big difference between how people think things should be and how the are. I think people should face reality about men and women. Some of them are traditional, but more and more of them are not. That doesn't mean that all the people that don't live like you are lesser than you. So, lets try and all face the realities of the world and be happy. Let's try and accept others and let them be happy too.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    June 17, 2014 1:31 p.m.

    To "Furry1993" tell me, what is better for children. Is it better for them to be dropped off at a daycare and raised by strangers for 10 hours per day, and have 6 waking hours with their parents or should are children better off being with their mother or father for 16 waking hours per day? According to the article "The village can help, but children raised by a mum and dad do best" in the UK telegraph, "The Effects of Daycare on the Socio-Emotional Development of Children" at FamilyFacts, "Does Day Care Damage Your Child?" at CBS news, and countless other studies show that when a child is raised primarily in a daycare environment they end up with problems that are greater than the kids who spend their waking time with their mothers.

    To "Frozen Fractals" go and study LDS doctrine,and what is taught about the role of a mother and father, then we can continue this discussion. Right now you demonstrate that you do not understand LDS doctrine with regards to the role of men and women within a family unit.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    June 17, 2014 12:33 p.m.

    When I was a kid I would often go up to my grandma's attic and read the old magazines she had stored there. They were from the 40's and 50's and reading them was like being transported back to that era. I got this same feeling from some of the comments here. Don't get me wrong, it was a great era in many ways. But it isn't the era of today and today is what is in front of us.

    I am grateful to those that fought to give women more choice in their lives. A happy by-product is that men were also freed from their strict roles. Freedom is messier and less predictable than rigidity, but that's what comes with more room for growth.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2014 12:03 p.m.

    @Redshirt
    "nothing would happen to an LDS girl who wants a career in engineering."

    Okay.

    " If she is married to an able bodied man who has a decent job capable of supporting their family, yes, she and her husband should both feel guilty"

    That literally would be something different in treatment for a girl who wants a career in engineering than a guy who wants a career in engineering. You say both would be criticized but the criticism is "why aren't you staying at home" to the wife and "why is she not staying at home" to the husband.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    June 17, 2014 11:37 a.m.

    @Redshirt 8:09 a.m. June 17, 2014

    . . . in today's society, nothing would happen to an LDS girl who wants a career in engineering. If she is married to an able bodied man who has a decent job capable of supporting their family, yes, she and her husband should both feel guilty because they are not providing the ideal environment for their children.

    ----------------

    I see nothing in that scenario to indicate that the woman engineer and her husband who is an "able bodied man who has a decent job capable of supporting their family" aren't providing an ideal environment for their children and family.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2014 9:06 a.m.

    @marxist,
    I know many LDS women who are engineers, accountants, CEOs, Doctors, etc. Sheri Dew is a good example. CEO of Deseret Book Company, never married, didn't have children, and never censure or harassed by the LDS Church or the LDS community for doing such.

    I have two nieces who are doctors, and one who's a successful accountant. Nobody harasses them.

    You're comments seem based on presumptions about these people you evidently know little about (besides your stereotypes of Mormons).

    We should be careful not to believe our stereotypes of people too much... or let those stereotypes become our "reality" in our own minds.

    Same goes for stereotyping people based on their religion, political party or political philosophy, or what economic system you think works best.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 17, 2014 8:09 a.m.

    To "The Wraith" it is a myth that women are paid less than men for the same job (except in the White House). In business, a female doctor with 10 years experience is paid as much as a male doctor with 10 years of experience, the same with male and female lawyers, engineers, managers, chefs, and so forth.

    To "Utefan60" where do you get that quote from N. Eldon Tanner. The cosest I can find is a First Presidency statement from 1969 that states that the Blacks will get the Priesthood someday. N. Eldon Tanner was part of the First Presidency at that time. Even the Anti-mormon web sites don't have that quote. So, unless you made it up, provide a source.

    To "marxist" in today's society, nothing would happen to an LDS girl who wants a career in engineering. If she is married to an able bodied man who has a decent job capable of supporting their family, yes, she and her husband should both feel guilty because they are not providing the ideal environment for their children.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    June 17, 2014 7:50 a.m.

    My wife and I were discussing this letter and the responses last night and she pointed out again that the idea that a women has a role is the height of objectification, and when that role includes wife it implicitly is sexual objectification.

    The religious culture cringes and becomes very loud when the topic of female objectification comes up but the hypocrisy of that culture who assigns women roles is maddening.

    To be thankful for the women in your life is one thing and a good thing. Even to be grateful for the roles they played in your life strikes me as simply being grateful. However to be thankful they fulfilled their assigned roles is degrading.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2014 11:25 p.m.

    Ok, two of my recent posts on this blog have been censored, so let's give it another shot. Let's say an LDS girl wants a career in engineering. Will she face censure or harassment in the LDS community for doing such? Should she feel guilt? Should she believe she is not filling here appropriate role (assume she marries and has kids)?

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    June 16, 2014 11:11 p.m.

    The Wraith:
    "Which is why women still make less than men despite equal ability, experience, and talent."

    The calculation that women make less than men is somewhat in error since women are on the job less, on average, than men. Wages are adjusted based on time on the job. A vast majority of women take time off from work to have and raise families. Men don't.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2014 9:23 p.m.

    Mike Richards has the idea that The proclamation of the Family is scripture? It has never been scripture or prophetic statement, just as N. Eldon Tanners comments in General Conference years ago saying that "Blacks will never hold the priesthood" are not scripture either.

  • Miss Piggie Phoenix, AZ
    June 16, 2014 9:05 p.m.

    Kally:
    "No one is suggesting anyone is an 'it' - we are merely suggesting that women and men are equal in value and worth."

    Women are moving toward more equality with men. And when they get there, it will suddenly be discovered that they are superior to men simply because of their sexual power.

  • The Wraith Kaysville, UT
    June 16, 2014 7:00 p.m.

    I noticed a lot of people who responded to Kally's post by saying that we do treat men and women differently. Fair enough but that does not negate what she said. If anyone here thinks that men and women are treated equally by society you are living in a dream world. No one is talking about women and men not being different we are talking about the fact that society as a whole still feels that men are more valuable than women. Which is why women still make less than men despite equal ability, experience, and talent. That is what the equality movement is about. Treating women just as valuable as men.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2014 5:07 p.m.

    @2bits
    "Where in the proclamation on the family... does it say that a woman's worth is based on having children?"

    I don't claim that the Proclamation says that... I'm just saying others who put value into and invoke the Proclamation seem to believe it says that (that's why I noted part of a comment that appears to connect one to the other).

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 16, 2014 4:24 p.m.

    @Maverick,

    Re "It used to be shameful to lie and slander the President"...

    When was that? It must have been before Democrats falsely accused Bush of "Stealing" their election. And before they wanted him impeached. And before they wanted him tried for war crimes.

    Remember that?

    Bush was our President not long ago, just as Barack Obama is our President today, and Republicans wanted people to support him, and not try constantly to undermine him (As Democrats did during the Bush Administration). It's the same today. It happens in politics.

    No... questioning the President didn't start with Barack Obama. Just Democrat sensitivity to questioning our President started with Barack Obama.

    =========

    @Schnee,

    Where in the proclamation on the family... does it say that a woman's worth is based on having children?

    It may help if you guys didn't just make stuff up (which people didn't say) to fight against and cause contention.

    That's why I bring up the proclamation.. it says it all much better than any poster can.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2014 3:36 p.m.

    @2bits
    "The prophet is just saying that there are gender differences, but both genders deserve the same respect and both have the same value (to him). I don't see why that would upset you, or anybody."

    The issue is when the worth of a woman is measured in whether or not she's having children which has turned up in comments like...

    @Mike Richards
    "He wrote about women who made a difference to their families and to people around them by fulfilling the role appointed to them because of their gender. They were mothers. They were role models to their sons and daughters. They were not diminished because they fulfilled their role. "

    ...and when such comments are claimed to be derived from Prophetic statements, that's where the criticism comes from.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 16, 2014 2:52 p.m.

    @RanchHand,
    The proclamation on the family is what it is... To some it's important, to others it's nothing.

    Nobody's telling you to accept it, or forcing you to accept it (those who don't believe in Prophets). But for people who claim to accept the source of the proclamation... it's an important thing. So don't belittle it. Nobody's saying you have to accept it. But it's worth bringing up... since many people reading these pages respect what the prophet says more than what WE say.

    ===

    I think it's valid to bring up what the Prophet has said on the topic (same as what prophets since the begining have said). But don't mistake that for me saying you have to believe like I believe. I'm sharing it with other believers.

    ====

    The prophet is just saying that there are gender differences, but both genders deserve the same respect and both have the same value (to him). I don't see why that would upset you, or anybody.

    They may have different roles in the family... but both have the same "worth" to him...

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 16, 2014 2:49 p.m.

    @ Redshirt

    It used to be shameful to shut down the government. It used to be shameful to lie and slander the President. It used to be shameful to use American deaths to attack the other party. It used to be shameful to obstruct government and use obstructionism not governance as a measuring stick for success. It used to be shameful to trust in big industry rather than scientists. It used to be shameful to put rich people ahead of the American middle class.

    Many things have changed in this country. Unfortunately, while I've never leaves the Republican Party, sadly, the Republican Party has left me.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    June 16, 2014 2:42 p.m.

    Being masculine or feminine isn't gender specific. Most people that are one or the other prefer the opposite. Most masculine people are fulfilled most when paired with a someone whose feminine qualities complement theirs. It's the human way.
    To me it seems like somewhere along the line the political correct people have been frowning on those who are too feminine or too masculine. That is a mistake. Learn, know, and then decide.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    June 16, 2014 1:50 p.m.

    @MikeRichards;

    Prove that the "proclamation" is the word of god and not just the "opinion" of your current leadership (I'm betting that in not that far a future, we're going to see an "essay" indicating that it was only the "opinion/policy" of your church, just as was done for the "Blacks and the Priesthood" issue. In any case, all we have is your word that it is the word of god, the LDS leadership NEVER came out and wrote "God Says:" when they issued their proclamation (opinion).

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 16, 2014 1:41 p.m.

    To "GZE" I am talking the type of respect that and expectations that society had prior to the 1970's and 1980's. Not the attitudes of 1100 AD.

  • Daniel L. Murray, UT
    June 16, 2014 1:01 p.m.

    Thank you Kally, no work performed will ever be as enduring as that of mothers and fathers, husbands and wives, dedicating their lives towards the greater good of their posterity. Generations will always look back with thankful hearts for those parents that left legacies of service and sacrifice for their posterity. Our communities should do all that it can to encourage commitment, love, and responsibility is fostered in the family, that they may be passed on to our future posterity!

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 16, 2014 12:42 p.m.

    Red Shirt, "It used to be shameful if a man couldn't earn enough to support his family."

    And that was all he was expected to do. A father was not expected to spend time with his children; they were fed and put to bed before he returned from his job. A man could treat his wife however he wanted; legally she was his property.

    Acknowledging that women have equal worth to men actually requires men to respect women as people.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 16, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    To "Kally" but we do treat men and women differently. Men and women act differently too, FYI.

    They both have the same protections under the law, but that is not what the letter was addressing.

    The problem is that because of the push for equality, we have destroyed the respect that women once received simply because they were women.

    For example, it used to be shameful if a man couldn't earn enough to support his family. Now, women are expected to have careers outside the home. Men used to feel obligated to pay for dates, and to show his date respect. Now, men are expected to pay for a date or two, then the cost of dates are shared, and respect is shown for the first couple of dates or until the girl sleeps with the guy. Men used to persue women, now it is a free-for-all, where women are just as agressive as men.

    As a society we have traded respect for women into competition with women. That isn't realy a good thing when you step back and look at what it is doing.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 16, 2014 11:31 a.m.

    @Kally,
    Re: "women and men are equal in value and worth."

    Nobody's contending the contrary. So you are arguing a strawman argument nobody's trying to make, and creating contention where none exists.

    God loves every child the same (as a good parent would, regardless of gender).

    Mormons love every person the same (regardless of gender) as God has taught us.

    That doesn't mean we must reject what God has taught about the family, gender roles, the family, how he designed us, and what he has taught us from the beginning of time (because today we are so modern and sophisticated... his advice teachings no longer fit).

    Google "The family: A Proclamation to the world"...

    You will see re-affirmations of what we has been taught since Adam. Things like...

    "We solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children"

    "Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose"

    "HUSBAND AND WIFE have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children."

    Etc...

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    June 16, 2014 11:02 a.m.

    We just celebrated Father's Day yesterday. We gave honor to those men who sacrificed so that we could enjoy life. I know that my father stopped trying to "please himself" when he married. His goal was to provide for his wife an honorable husband, to care for her needs, to do his part in society and to welcome into his home all the children that God sent. Before marrying, he had dreams of being great in business, but he put those dreams aside so that he could provide a stable household for his family.

    The result is that at the end of his life, he looked back and realized that raising a family and teaching that family correct principles was life's greatest reward. He knew that he had spared no effort to fulfill his role as father and that he had not acted selfishly while fulfilling that role.

    Some scoff at "fulling roles", especially the roles that God, our Father, gave us. I appreciate God's concern for his children and his directions to us. I don't look for gods who agree with me.

  • The Wraith Kaysville, UT
    June 16, 2014 10:41 a.m.

    Kally I would like to commend you on that post. It was incredibly well written and expressed my own thoughts better than I could have hoped to express them. Thank you for being an oasis of rationality and truthfulness in a place usually devoid of both - or even an understanding of them.

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 16, 2014 10:21 a.m.

    I am sure both your mother and your wife were wonderful women, wives, and mothers. Did you ever ask them if they found their lives fulfilling? Did you ever wonder if there was something your mother would have liked to do that was denied her because she was busy with what had to be done? It is ingenious to assume that someone who does not complain about their lot in life - who in fact may be satisfied 99 percent of the time - did not sometimes resent the rules society imposed upon her.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    June 16, 2014 9:29 a.m.

    "They were not diminished because they fulfilled their role."

    And while many engage you for various reason here is why none respect you.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 16, 2014 9:02 a.m.

    George Orwell wrote:

    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it."

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    June 16, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    @ Mike: Women have value because they are human beings - if you and your God are unable to see that, then I feel very sorry for the both of you.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 16, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    The letter writer pointed out that our VALUE in society is related to our ROLE in society. He wrote about women who made a difference to their families and to people around them by fulfilling the role appointed to them because of their gender. They were mothers. They were role models to their sons and daughters. They were not diminished because they fulfilled their role. They were magnified by being what God had intended them to be.

    As modern prophets have told us in "The Family: A Proclamation to the World":

    "All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. . . We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife."

    Those are the words of God given to us through His prophets. Arguments to the contrary notwithstanding, when God speaks the issue is settled.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    June 16, 2014 7:50 a.m.

    The letter writer here is a perfect example of what is driving much of the discord in America today. My world is the way the world should be. It made/makes me happy so therefore it's the way. The view is affectionately called living in a bubble, but it's simply in most cases not being conversant or familiar with other circumstances except as aberrations of the way things should be.

    It takes a great deal of humility to look at others without the shield of your own convictions. It's dangerous to those convictions and the very reason institutions discourage members from doing so.

    However it's also very liberating. If you develop the ability to engage the world in such a way you find that sometimes your convictions are confirmed and sometimes they aren't. However the new idea changes your world for the better.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    June 16, 2014 6:45 a.m.

    In the 1970's women players made up about 10% of major American orchestras. Everyone knew that women didn't have the stamina for the strings, and lacked the lung capacity to power the piccolos.

    But after screens were set up to facilitate "blind auditions" the number of women in orchestras started to rise, and by the 1990's women made up about 35% of orchestras!

    Studies have shown that blind auditions increase the odds of women being selected by about 50%!

    Sometimes its good to erase gender.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    June 16, 2014 6:33 a.m.

    The LTE writer is lucky to have had a good marriage, and good role models.

    However, he confuses gender role models from gender role compulsion. Not all woman wish to be mothers. Not all woman wish to be stay at home moms. In fact, some woman can not be stay at home moms due to economic problems. To compel any human being into a strict gender role as identified by this person's obvious faith tradition is cruel. Nobody really wins in the long run.

    If strong families are the goal, then efforts should be made by all levels of society to support those families in whatever from they may take. Be it the more "traditional" mom at home, dad the bread winner model, or the more recent iterations which includes same sex households with kids, all should be supported by government, churches, schools, and all our common connections.

  • Kally Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2014 12:12 a.m.

    No one is suggesting anyone is an "it" - we are merely suggesting that women and men are equal in value and worth.

    No one is trying to erase gender or the differences between the genders - we are simply trying to erase the inequality with which those differences are treated.

    You extol the virtues of the many great women you have known in your life - but at the same time imply that women who behave differently from those you revere are somehow less than real women.

    All humans, regardless of their genders, have value. All humans, regardless of the role they play in their families, have worth. Women can fulfill the roles you extol or they can fulfill other roles - which roles they fill does not lessen their value or worth.

    Those who seek to force women to act in certain manner by denying them value for not acting in that manner, are the ones who are degrading women and society.