booshwayWoods Cross, UTFirst of all, CO2 is a microfraction of 1% of
the atmosphere. Water vapor is 96% of the atmosphere.====== Oh come on.You are just making stuff up.[but, it's just
like those AM radio college drop outs do...]96%We are
A carbon tax is NOT a market based solution – it is an artificial
influence on the market.Hutterite,Those religious protections
included in the 1st amendment really bother you, don’t they?VST,Since when have reasonable arguments and the truth about China ever
prevented liberals from their rants?
@NateRoy Spencer's fellow AGW skeptic John Christy believes 2015 is
likely to be the warmest year in the modern record. He should also know that the
models don't model solar output and we had the weakest solar cycle in a
century, yet we only get a pause out of it. "When you look at,
say, the 3000 year record, we are still below the median temperature."Try looking at global charts, not Greenland only charts. @booshway"Water vapor is 96% of the atmosphere. "Water vapor is around 1-2% of the atmosphere. N2 and O2 make up around 96% of
the atmosphere (Argon another 1%)."The sun is the driver of our
atmosphere and climate."The sun and Earth temperature have been
going in opposite directions for the better part of 40 years now."Because when it is warm there are more plants and animals, and when they
die they decompose which releases CO2, thus increasing the amount of
CO2."We are at CO2 levels unseen in hundreds of thousands of
years, and they've increased at rates unseen in millions of years.
That's not a natural effect, that's anthropogenic.
This is a simple concept Liberals don't get. Global warming has been going
on for many millenia. Climate cycles constant occur and change and even can have
rapid changes. This has occurred multiple times in history, long before we had
heavy CO2 emissions.All of the "evidence" from climate
scientists that Man is the cause of the climate change is speculative and
theory. None of it is Fact.I want clean air and water too, but sell
it as that, not as man causing climate change that will destroy the Earth as
portrayed in movies. I do find it interesting how much these Man
caused climate change advocates have made off of their claims. How much is Al
Gore worth now? I heard it is more than Mitt Romney, and it all started with his
"Inconvenient Truth" which he promoted while flying around in private
jets. If these liberal activists all really believe this, why do they live in
houses, drive cars, and fly planes that use huge amounts of energy? Why would
they consume more energy than 99.99% of the population if they truly believed it
was as dangerous as they claim?
First of all, CO2 is a microfraction of 1% of the atmosphere. Water vapor is 96%
of the atmosphere. Which do you think has more affect on the climate? The sun is
the driver of our atmosphere and climate. The AGW religionists always ignore
this fact. Not one of them has answered the question - if man causes "global
warming" then why are the polar ice caps on Mars melting? Couldn't
possibly have anything to do with the sun. The temperature graph so happily
displayed by AGW religionists shows that CO2 goes up AFTER a warming period, not
before. Why? Because when it is warm there are more plants and animals, and when
they die they decompose which releases CO2, thus increasing the amount of CO2.
When you study "global warming" you find all sorts of things - like -
lying about temperature readings, faking temperature readings, lying about
faking them, ignoring anything that doesn't support AGW agenda (like
volcanoes), paint used on weather stations has changed and has affected the
readings, weather stations too close to buildings and parking lots, etc. etc.,
etc.What is the "solution" to AGW? Taxes. That says it all.
@Frozen Fractals "Does the 2000s being the warmest decade in the modern
record not mean anything?"It doesn't mean much, because we
all know the reason behind that awkward construction: current measured
temperatures are far cooler than the temperatures predicted by the vast majority
of climate models.(See "EPIC FAIL: 73 Climate Models vs.
Observations for Tropical Tropospheric Temperature," by Roy Spencer.)(See also: "95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be
Wrong," by Roy Spencer.)When a theory is contradicted by
observation, the scientific approach is to admit that the theory is flawed; but
global warming hysteria has little to do with science, and much to do with
politics.We also know the reason why you are focused on the
"modern record": proxy data shows that during its long history, our
planet has been much warmer than it is now. When you look at, say, the 3000 year
record, we are still below the median temperature.
@Blue Does manmade global warming cause heatwaves, droughts, hurricane or crop
failure. Those things have happened a long time before the industrial
revolution, We are not doing anything to cause death now.
@VST "As I have stated before (and most people ignore), until you get the
rest of the World to “pony up” in their efforts for reducing carbon
emissions, anything the U.S. does without worldwide participation is the
equivalent of spitting into the wind." We will not get the rest of the
world to "pony up" until we do it. The U.S. must lead. I know there
are no guarantees the rest of the world will cooperate, but I can tell you with
absolute certainty that if we don't reduce our emissions the rest of the
world won't either.
Sorry Bob, but questionable science leads to bad policy. You can be excused for
confusing the talking points of activists, politicians, and lazy journalists for
real science.First: "Climate Change" is a meaningless term
in the context of this discussion. The proper term is "Anthropogenic Global
Warming" or AGW for short.Second: AGW is real and is caused by
the "Greenhouse Effect".Third: One cause of the Greenhouse
Effect is carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere by human activity.Fourth: The critical question is how much of the measured warming of the
climate is attributable to AGW.Most climate scientists believes that
AGW is responsible for a significant portion of the measured warming. These
scientists have developed formulas based on this belief and incorporated these
formulas into climate computer models. These models predict that if the
concentration of carbon dioxide continues to increase at its present pace,
significant increases in the earth's temperature will follow. The problem is the models are seriously over predicting the actual measured
temperature rise and it's getting worse every month. Until the
world's climate scientists develop reliable climate models, implementing
policy changes with significant economic impact is unwise.
@VST"As shown above, U.S. actions alone will not make any significant
difference in the amount of carbon emissions being added into the
atmosphere."Yes. Now if a country were to take the lead and
develop an efficient alternative source of energy then well... what's to
stop the companies owning those solutions from selling their innovative solution
to other countries and spur change through the free market?@Nate"Everywhere except the thermometer."Does the 2000s being
the warmest decade in the modern record not mean anything? I saw the other day
that even AGW skeptic John Christy was predicting that thanks to the expected to
develop El Nino, 2015 may end up the warmest year in the modern record. (And
yes, El Nino is natural, but there's a reason the recent El Ninos are the
warmest El Nino years and the recent La Ninas are the warmest La Nina years, and
that is because there's an underlying warming trend increasing the
"Bring on global warming as warmer temperatures are more pleasant anyway and
more things grow."Try telling that to someone in New Orleans or
New Jersey.Those living along the coastlines, low areas, or near
rivers (most of the population) might disagree with some sofa scientist from
What global warming? Even the most biased, jaded experts have admitted that
warming stopped in 1998 while CO2 levels continue to rise. That means the
climate models are wrong, and that making trillion-dollar decisions based on
them would be premature if not outright foolish. There is obviously a lot we
don't understand about the controls on climate (and that CO2 is not the
main control).That said, reducing air pollution is obviously a good
thing. We should be focusing on the sulfates, particulates, nitrates, metals,
ozone, and aerosols that are the real and immediate problems. We should be
replacing coal-fired power plants with nuclear power plants, importing high-mpg
vehicles from Europe and Japan, developing fuel cell technology, stopping the
ethanol foolishness, stopping rain forest deforestation, planting trees, and
doing the things that make real and immediate differences.
"Bring on global warming as warmer temperatures are more pleasant anyway and
more things grow." Only up to a certain point. And then . . . ?"Manmade climate change is not a fact it is a way to control our lives and
destroy prosperity." According to the Koch brothers and other
propagandists." We cannot control the climate why are we letting
it control us." Ask the people who live in the Sahara how much the climate
controls them. Or, for that matter, ask an Eskimo." When we no
longer have electricity or fuel do to what writers of this letter want us to do
what are we going to do." Is anyone proposing to do away with electricity
or fuel? No. " And why are people living longer after the
industrial revolution than before?" Improvements in medical care, cleaner
water, cleaner air, environmental regulations." Name one person
that died because of "man made climate change" None have -- yet. But
unless we smarten up, our descendants will.
@Mr. Speiser "It's a fact that all of us can see."Everywhere except the thermometer.
higv:Heat waves are not "more pleasant."No, the
extra CO2 doesn't help "things grow." Yes, the plants get bigger,
but the food value of what the produce is _lower_. That's the science.Yes, we absolutely can control the climate. We're doing it now.
BTW, natural sources of climate change have been rigorously studied and found to
be _not_ the cause of global warming. The evidence couldn't be clearer -
it's us burring fossil fuels.No one is even remotely suggesting
an end to electricity. Far from it - the goal is to encourage new sources of
electricity from non-polluting sources.Re your comment "Name one
person that died," I have to ask - what's your standard of proof? Does
a person who dies from a heat wave, or a drought, or a flood, or a hurricane, or
crop failure, count? If rapidly changing climate causes a significant increase
in these things, then why wouldn't an increase in deaths due to these
climate-related problems be attributable to climate change?
There are some in this forum specifically that believe 97% of the world's
climate scientists (those who are trained in science that specifically study our
environment and climate) have a massive conspiracy to control your very being.
Poppycock. These same people encourage the spewing of toxins into the air,
waterways and nature for the benefit of a very few beneficiaries. There never
has been an oil pipeline that has not leaked and history has shown us that with
some effort we can make strides to protect our environment. Since the EPA was
introduced, we have see forests that were once dying from acid rain make major
improvements and when was the last time you saw a river catch on fire like
happened in Cleveland? There is no conspiracy. You can't even get 3 tpeas
to agree on everything, ie Cantor and what's his name. Time to turn off
Beck, turn on rationality, and pull our heads out of the sand. Best error on the
side of caution, we will not save ourselves by earth destruction.
@higv" We cannot control the climate why are we letting it control
us."We caused urban air pollution problems, we caused the ozone
hole, we caused acid rain, we know CO2 is a greenhouse gas that has increased in
atmospheric concentration dramatically the past 200 years... why is it so
unrealistic to think this time... no, we're not having an impact?"Bring on global warming as warmer temperatures are more pleasant
anyway"Personal opinion: I disagree with that.
exactly right HIGV, couldn't have said it better myself. Climate change has been going on for millions of years, no need to be
overreacting now. If the alarmist crowd is so convinced, start imposing your
ideas and theories on yourselves and fellow believers, under a voluntary
program. No need to force the rest of us to participate. If your ideas are so
wonderful, the rest of us will follow. Freedom is a wonderful thing. Besides, if
you really think the US is the main cause of alleged manmade climate change, and
the majority of us are "believers", then you will have great success
getting the majority to follow your ideas and programs in a voluntary manner.
That will make such a huge, wonderful difference right there. (sarcasm off) My
guess is that will never happen, because the climate really isn't the issue
with this crowd. Control and restriction of freedom, along with punishing
prosperity are the real goals of this crowd!!
Be very careful not to fall for the Koch brothers' propaganda. There is
absolutely no attempt being made by anyone to eliminate "electricity or fuel
to what writers of this letter want us to do."Any educated and
thinking person will easily see the fallacy behind the argument that people are
living longer since the industrial revolution despite the undeniable effects of
that revolution upon our earth. The industrial revolution has nothing to do
with advances in medical care, food supply, sanitation, clean water and clean
air that have been the actual reasons for a longer life.Asking that
we name anyone who has died because of climate change is a great bit of
conservative silliness. No one has -- yet. But if we don't take action
soon, many will be dying either as direct results of drought, famine, war or
other things resulting from an earth that can no longer support a growing human
population.This planet, like any natural system, has a finite
carrying capacity. Damaging our home planet in any way will have consequences.
WE won't pay the price, but our descendants will.Who may they
thank for that? People like our friend from Idaho.
We have been trained so well and for so long that anything to help clean up our
environment will be bad that we don't even listen to the helpful and
constructive proposals anymore.Admitting that they're good
ideas or worthwhile plans to consider (if not act upon) means that those
"liberals" were right and "we conservatives" were wrong.
Bring on global warming as warmer temperatures are more pleasant anyway and more
things grow. Manmade climate change is not a fact it is a way to control our
lives and destroy prosperity. We cannot control the climate why are we letting
it control us. When we no longer have electricity or fuel do to what writers of
this letter want us to do what are we going to do. And why are people living
longer after the industrial revolution than before? Name one person that died
because of "man made climate change"
Those who oppose improvements in energy are from the same mold as those cavemen
who resisted the wheel for as long as they could. Or until they actually tried
using one.Remember all the screaming and whining about Frontrunner
before it was built?
Faith requires no proof. Fact can be dismissed with a hint of dissent.