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Peavler: Busting college football conference realignment myths surrounding BYU

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  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 18, 2014 2:37 p.m.

    Myth: BYU will join the PAC-12 sometime. Myth busted.

    As mentioned, BYU is not a research university on the scale of PAC-12 members. However, I believe it is much more than that. Granted BYU has some fine individual schools ie. accounting, law, MBA, etc. But BYU has a major academic problem to overcome. "Academic Freedom" BYU's academic freedom policies have been criticized by the American Association of University Professors (AAUP). A study concluded "that infringements on academic freedom are distressingly common and that the climate for academic freedom is distressingly poor." In 1998, the AAUP voted to censure BYU, which remains on a list of censured institutions..."
    Furthermore, "Northwest Association of Schools and of Colleges and Universities (the "Northwest Association") reviewed the University's academic freedom statement and renewed its accreditation. The Northwest Association specifically approved the University's academic freedom statement. Such accreditation standards permit "religious colleges and universities to place limitations on academic freedom so long as they publish those limitations candidly."
    Is it any wonder schools like Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA admitted Utah rather than BYU?

  • CVMD Logan, UT
    June 16, 2014 10:14 p.m.

    I have to smile. From my perspective there is no reason to hate a middle tier school with some very good programs and slightly better then middle tier football program. I do hate the arrogance demonstrated by some fans. But BYU itself is too blah to hate. As I have now said twice, BYU can fall far fast. And without a conference, there is no net. Significantly better schools then BYU on and off the field have had their chops busted by the NCAA for less serious violations then BYU is investigating. Minimizing the problem is natural, but I would not dismiss the possibilities I bring up, especially dismissing them with personal attacks against me instead of reasoned counter points. Bronco was very wise to change the subject. But the NCAA is not the Utah press. I would follow some very wise advise 'to walk humbly' at this stage of your independence sojourn. The other shoe has not dropped, it might not, but it likely will in the next year or two.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2014 7:08 a.m.

    2fer

    Don't kid yourself. Anybody who has already appointed themselves judge, jury, and executioner without even knowing the evidence is obviously just a hater.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    June 15, 2014 3:14 p.m.

    In regards to BYU's 2015 FB schedule: Pencil in a home game on Oct 17, 2015. It is rumored that the game on that date at So. Miss is off. It will probably be rescheduled at a later date. BYU WILL have 6 home games and 6 away games. We just need to waiit for the contracts to be signed and returned. BYU doesn't usually finalize their next years' schedules until all leagues have theirs finalized, as ther are sometimes cancellations and changes that have to be made. It will work out, I have no doubt.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2014 12:45 p.m.

    @ skywalker

    Just because somebody isn't singing praises to BYU, does not make them a hater. There is a a lot of middle group between those two things.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 15, 2014 9:03 a.m.

    CVMD

    "I'm not a BYU hater."

    LOL!

    Your tone and unfounded accusations and conclusions prove otherwise.

  • CVMD North Logan, UT
    June 14, 2014 10:39 p.m.

    I'm not a BYU hater. I just hate arrogance without cause. I also have a memory. In 2010, Colorado was 5-6 years from its last bowl victory and 3 years from its last bowl game. But it's history at that time was better than the lower half of the PAC 10. I find it ironic that BYU fans would trash talk a school that by all measures had a football program, and currently have a University, that was superior to BYU until those dreaded under charges for walkon meals. You too can fall farther, faster. BYU's violations? They will likely never be really known. However, if, and I mean if, non-LDS athletes were given money for rent and then paid the apartment manager reduced or gratis rent and pocketed what was given (otherwise free rent has no purpose), and if that occurred over several years, as has been alleged, BYU is in trouble. A decade's worth of lack of institutional oversight fits well within the definition of a level 1 violation, especially because the violation essentially would involve direct payment from the University to players less likely to be attracted to BYU, all arranged by the Director of Football Operations.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 14, 2014 3:21 p.m.

    CVMD

    Sorry to disappoint U and the other BYU haters, none of BYU's supposed "violations" even comes close to a level 1 violation.

    Colorado's invitation to the PAC 12, like Utah's, obviously had nothing to do with the "excellence" of their football program which has been in the dumps for most of the last decade.

  • CVMD North Logan, UT
    June 14, 2014 11:41 a.m.

    A few comments on Colorado have shown an arrogance by BYU fans that may come back to bite them. Colorado was sanctioned for giving walkon athletes meals below what the NCAA determined that they were worth. A few thousand dollars destroyed them. They lost scholarships and made bad coaching changes, both of which together buried their program. They have won a national championship in the last quarter century, have a Heisman winner and have individual seasons with more victories over teams that finished in the top 20 then BYU has in its entire history. Providing free rent to star players over years is a level I violation. If true, BYU is in trouble. Broncho has done a good job of changing the topic. Don't be overly critical of the PAC 12 for inviting a school with 27 NCAA national championships, the last 6 months ago, and a physics department with Nobel Laureates for leaders. BYU is a top 300-400 institution, Colorado a top 50 iUniversity in world rankings.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    June 14, 2014 7:26 a.m.

    deceivingperspective

    "Actually, the U didn't conduct their own investigation. It was conducted by a third party."

    The "investigation" was conducted by a lifelong Crimson Club member - but of course you conveniently swept that little detail under the rug.

    Your biased minimizing of what goes on at the U versus your hyperbole and false accusations concerning the Y are grossly inconsistent. Take a look in the mirror and tell yourself that you're honestly using the same strict standards of scrutiny when judging the U as you're using while judging the Y.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 13, 2014 1:43 p.m.

    @MyPerspective "Actually, the U didn't conduct their own investigation. It was conducted by a third party."

    True, though as the Yahoo Sports article pointed out, it was a "third party" investigation that was "paid for by the university and carried out by a team handpicked by the university". The people spearheading the investigation both had direct ties to the U, being alumni of the University.

    But I'm sure they were completely objective. Luckily, "with a few possible exceptions", there were no indications of any abuse having occurred at the U. Probably the single-most hilarious line from an internal investigative report!

    Yet, it was all swept under the rug, and Chris Hill was let off the hook. Pretty awesome.

    U should check out the "Utah failed" article by Yahoo Sports. Great read. Fortunately, Utah's not a big-time program, or else the scrutiny from this report would have put a ton of pressure on Chris Hill to step down.

    Talk about minimizing violations.

    Go Cougars!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 13, 2014 12:55 p.m.

    phoenix
    Gilbert, AZ

    "It's going to be a VERY disappointing day for you when the findings are announced and the only thing that was "found" were a few minor infractions."

    I won't be disappointed at all with that result...if factually correct. Again, as you stated..."when it was really nothing more than a light breeze." Let's hope byu's process is more robust and diligent than your conclusion.

    skywalker
    Palo Alto, CA

    "How do you know that the BYU fan who, according to you, was trying to "minimize" the allegations, isn't simply privy to details of what actually happened..."

    I know it because the investigation hasn't concluded and anyone with knowledge of the matter, and possesses a lick of common sense, wouldn't be talking about it in any way shape or form.

    Let it play out, gentlemen.

    Until then...cheers!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 13, 2014 12:53 p.m.

    truecoug1
    Provo, UT

    "That is incredibly ironic coming from a fan of a school who had serious allegations of abuse directed towards their swimming coach and whose AD apparently knew about it, conducted their own investigation that basically swept everything under the rug..."

    Actually, the U didn't conduct their own investigation. It was conducted by a third party. Although that is far better than an internal investigation, there are steps I would have liked to see them take to further strengthen the integrity of the process they used.

  • Jeremy234 SLC, UT
    June 13, 2014 12:06 p.m.

    @tinplater

    I'm not Mormon and I would WAY rather live in SLC than anywhere in Arizona. That's not even a comparison.

  • Jeremy234 SLC, UT
    June 13, 2014 11:50 a.m.

    BYU should focus on scheduling Big XII opponents. I can't imagine that it is really THAT hard to get a home and away with Kansas State, KU, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Baylor, TCU or Oklahoma State. That would beat out home and aways with Middle Tennessee State. I would like to see annual games with Utah, USU, ASU, Baylor, and BSU, plus four other Big XII teams and three other games with power conferences. I'm a Utah BTW. If BYU wants to be taken seriously as an independent it pretty much can't ever schedule a an FCS team again.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 13, 2014 11:33 a.m.

    @MyPerspective

    It's also amazing to me that you think BYU would cover or minimize any kind of violations on their part. That would be the same BYU who immediately suspended Brandon Davies for the rest of the year after an HONOR CODE violation, a suspension which severely dampened BYU's NCAA tourney run hopes. Or the same BYU who, after some Ute fan snapped shots of Spencer Hadley at a party drinking alcohol and reported it to Utah compliance, suspended Hadley for 5 games (later reduced to 3) for another Honor Code violation?

    Didn't the Utes have a player busted for a DUI for driving on the wrong side of the road get suspended a half of a game? Or Brian Blechen, who failed multiple drug tests, get suspended for the same number of games as Spencer Hadley?

    Talk about minimizing violations. The Utes are the poster-child for that one.

    Go Cougars!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 13, 2014 11:27 a.m.

    @My Perspective "I completely agree with you, DeepBlue. When byu is finished with its investigation of byu, there's no doubt in my mind that the alleged improper conduct by an administrator is simply unsubstantiated.

    And for that very reason, the NCAA needs to take over and conduct a proper investigation."

    That is incredibly ironic coming from a fan of a school who had serious allegations of abuse directed towards their swimming coach and whose AD apparently knew about it, conducted their own investigation that basically swept everything under the rug, and who were then mocked by Yahoo Sports for running such a biased investigation.

    Fortunately for Utah, nobody cares enough about the Utes to have done any kind of a follow-up to that issue.

    Still, the irony in your previous post is hilarious!

    Go Cougars!

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 13, 2014 11:19 a.m.

    distortedperspective

    "I believe that BYU will attempt to minimize the results/conclusion/corrective action in much the same way as the BYU, you, and several fans who posted above?"

    And this makes BYU different from every other program that's ever been "investigated" by the NCAA in what way?

    It's going to be a VERY disappointing day for you when the findings are announced and the only thing that was "found" were a few minor infractions.

    The media and the haters tried their best to make this into a major storm, when it was really nothing more than a light breeze.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 13, 2014 11:10 a.m.

    little perspective

    "If you work your way up the chain of comments to understand the full context of my statement, you will see that it started with a BYU fan minimizing the allegations"

    How do you know that the BYU fan who, according to you, was trying to "minimize" the allegations, isn't simply privy to details of what actually happened, but is smart enough not to discuss those details in an open forum or to reveal his/her sources?

    It's quite obvious that you're just speculating about the possible worst case scenario based on nothing but your own BYU-hating biases.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 13, 2014 10:58 a.m.

    CordonBleu
    Park City, UT

    ...and here is the problem...

    "...nothing to do with whatever minor violations might have occurred."

    If you work your way up the chain of comments to understand the full context of my statement, you will see that it started with a byu fan minimizing the allegations (just as you did) of what, if anything, occurred. byu conducting this investigation, any investigation on itself where outside criteria (NCAA rules) is involved, creates a conflict of interest. Though the NCAA gave byu the green light to conduct their investigation, the risk of a slanted outcome is not lost on the NCAA. They will, no doubt, view the proceedings and conclusion with a healthy dose of professional skepticism as they should in this case.

    Now, do I believe that byu will attempt to minimize the results/conclusion/corrective action in much the same way as the byu, you, and several fans who posted above? Yes, I do.

    I'm sorry, bro, it isn't about "hate" as you so much want to believe.

    As I just stated...let's wait and see how this plays out.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 13, 2014 10:44 a.m.

    SportsFan
    Orem, UT

    CordonBleu
    Park City, UT

    Let's wait and see how this plays out.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    June 13, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    little perspective

    BYU tries to hold itself to a higher standard, but you can't name a single source anywhere that has ever said the BYU claims to be above reproach.

    Your entire tone is proof that for you it is all about "hate" and has absolutely nothing to do with whatever minor violations might have occurred.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 13, 2014 7:46 a.m.

    SportsFan
    Orem, UT

    "Based on what evidence, besides your own BYU hatred?"

    Based on byu's penchant for claiming that as a faith based institution that they are above reproach. Disappointing as it may be, it has nothing to do with "hate."

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 13, 2014 12:09 a.m.

    little perspective

    "what evidence do you have that the investigation being conducted by byu is as robust, fact driven, and thorough as it should be?"

    Easy, BYU self-reported the infractions and is doing the investigation with the NCAA's blessing.

    It'll be up to the NCAA what corrective action, if any, is administered.

    ---------------

    "I know the NCAA allows self reviews but there are significant and compelling reasons for the NCAA to exercise a great deal of oversight...especially in this case."

    Based on what evidence, besides your own BYU hatred?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 12, 2014 11:07 p.m.

    "Luck added that there are no "available teams" -- schools from the non-Power Five leagues -- that would add value to the Big 12's per-school revenue"

    Please note the last few words: "per-school revenue". They did NOT say that no schools would add value to the Big 12. They were talking specifically about the amount of revenue each school would get. They are saying financially it makes more sense to stay at 10.

    My take from this whole thing is that in the future if the 5 conferences start expanding to 16 teams, BYU will be included somewhere. When one conference does it, another will follow until most or all of the 5 are expanding. I really don't see BYU not being included in ANY of those expansions.

    If none of the teams expand, then they won't invite BYU. Simple as that. If they are expanding, however, unless there's some bias involved (like with the PAC), BYU will be a very attractive option for expansion.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 9:39 p.m.

    Solomon Levi
    Alpine, UT

    "Except for your biased, BYU-hating opinion, what evidence do you have that the investigation currently being conducted isn't a proper and fully NCAA-approved investigation?"

    You make it too easy. Answer: Except for your byu-loving opinion, what evidence do you have that the investigation being conducted by byu is as robust, fact driven, and thorough as it should be? Further, what evidence do you have that corrective action recommended by byu for byu will be commensurate with penalties handed down by the NCAA for similar offenses?

    In short, I know the NCAA allows self reviews but there are significant and compelling reasons for the NCAA to exercise a great deal of oversight...especially in this case.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 8:03 p.m.

    Its time to start saying that the Big Ten is perfect for BYU.

    Privately turned down by the PAC12.
    Publicly turned down by the Big12.
    Given a not-major label by the SEC and ACC.
    The Big Ten is the only P5 conference which hasn't taken a position on BYU.

    Could this be a match??

    The Big Ten has gone to simpler "West / East" division names. Clearly, BYU belongs in the West. Much simpler than trying to decide if they were a "Legend" or a "Leader". Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Purdue and Wisconsin rolling through Provo every other year? Awesome!

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    June 12, 2014 5:41 p.m.

    MyPerspective

    "the NCAA needs to take over and conduct a proper investigation."

    Except for your biased, BYU-hating opinion, what evidence do you have that the investigation currently being conducted isn't a proper and fully NCAA-approved investigation?

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 5:08 p.m.

    DeepBlue
    Anaheim, CA

    "Trust me, there weren't any major violations and there won't be any "program crippling" decisions.

    When the results are finally released, it'll be obvious that all of the hysteria and hand-wringing was a tempest in a tea cup.

    Nothing but a few minor indiscretions and some mild hand slapping will be the end result."

    I completely agree with you, DeepBlue. When byu is finished with its investigation of byu, there's no doubt in my mind that the alleged improper conduct by an administrator is simply unsubstantiated.

    And for that very reason, the NCAA needs to take over and conduct a proper investigation.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 5:01 p.m.

    Brio
    Alpine, UT

    @ MyPerspective:

    "Actually BYU has literally almost always finished in the top half of every conference they've been in for the past half century. And that's been 95% of that time period that they've competed in conferences. It's been a very long time since they haven't been in the top tier of each and every conference they've played in."

    The point, Brio, is simply this...byu can't win a conference championship without a conference and it has become abundantly clear the last 3 weeks that the byu faithful would rather have a conference. Ooops, Too late.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 12, 2014 4:12 p.m.

    FACTchequer:

    "U have absolutely no proof that the majority of fans voting on the ESPN poll are BYU fans...The meer fact that the poll exists is proof enough that there is a national interest in BYU."

    ...just as you have no proof that the majority of fans voting on the ESPN poll are NOT cougar fans. Had you tried reading the comments on those ESPN articles? Those comments don't reflect a very large margin of pro cougs-to-the-Big-12 remarks.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 3:43 p.m.

    @ DeepBlue

    Doesn't matter. They happened, which mean Brio's statement was false. Also, do you care to explain why conf. titles won 50 years ago are meaningful, but titles 80 years ago are not? Plus are you aware that the WAC doesn't exist in football anymore? So I guess we can throw the titles and awards that BYU won in that nonexistent conference out the window...

    Apparently Utah and BYU both have 4 "meaningful" conference titles.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 12, 2014 2:26 p.m.

    Interesting results from ESPN polls:

    Do you believe Pete Carroll when he says he wouldn't have left USC had he known of the impending NCAA sanctions?

    18% Yes
    82% No

    Should the Big 12 let BYU into the conference?

    65% Yes
    35% No

    With similar results state-by-state, in every state from Washington to Florida, California to Maine.

    Only West Virginia and Deleware, with very small vote totals, say "no", by a slim majority.

    Regardless of how you slice it, either BYU truly does have a national fanbase, or thousands more fans of other teams nationwide care much more about BYU than the jealous kids on the ever thought possible, or both.

    Total Votes, so far: 21,024

  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    June 12, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    Cletus...that was pretty funny! Ute fans beating their chests over being at the big boy table sounds just like the Huggies commercial with the kid singing about being a big kid now.

    Thanks for the laugh!

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 2:10 p.m.

    Just to clarify,

    Utah fans / BYU haters are spamming yet another BYU article "claiming" that "nobody" has any interest in BYU except BYU fans?

    Meanwhile, Utah fans are busy trying to jimmer the ESPN poll, doing exactly what they're falsely accussing BYU fans of doing.

    LOL!

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    June 12, 2014 2:04 p.m.

    hedgefog

    "My only question is how many "bots" did cougarboard use to jimmer this poll."

    Your only answer is: NONE

    Gotta luv the jealous sniping from the kids on the hill, though, based on nothing but their own BYU hatred.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    June 12, 2014 1:56 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    Did the Utes "force" the PAC 12 to take them, or did the Utes beg the PAC to take them as 2nd-class citizens for three full years before the Utes were even allowed to become full members?

    The poll is the opinion of fans.

    The article is about the statements of a few Big 12 officials.

    Try not to confuse the two.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 12, 2014 1:49 p.m.

    "ESPN Fan Poll Should the Big 12 let BYU into the conference?
    65% Yes
    35% No "

    My only question is how many "bots" did cougarboard use to jimmer this poll. Byu fan spends its life trying to convince the world (and themselves) they matter....even if it means voting 40,000 times per person.

    Smoke and mirrors

  • FACTchequer Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 1:48 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    "So the Cougar fan boards must be alive with "go vote in this poll!"... "

    More jealous sniping from the hill? U have absolutely no proof that the majority of fans voting on the ESPN poll are BYU fans.

    The meer fact that the poll exists is proof enough that there is a national interest in BYU.

    Remind us, when was the last time the national media cared enough about Utah to post a poll question about the Utes?

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    June 12, 2014 1:40 p.m.

    Indewac

    The fact that Utah can fill a 45,000-seat stadium doesn't prove that they could come anywhere close to filling a 65,000-seat stadium.

    Unfortunately for U, Utah simply doesn't have enough fans to fill a 65,000-seat stadium; if they did, they would have expanded RES a long time ago.

    BYU was drawing 46,000, more than the capacity of RES, in 1981, the year BEFORE LES was expanded to 65,000.

    BYU has averaged 15,000+ MORE fans for the past 32 years.

    That's not speculation; that's a verifiable fact.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 1:25 p.m.

    ESPN Fan Poll Should the Big 12 let BYU into the conference?
    65% Yes
    35% No

    So the Cougar fan boards must be alive with "go vote in this poll!"... but ignore the actual article where the Big12 says "no interest, at all".

    If you can't make the Big12 take you on the strength of an ESPN poll, consider starting a whitehouse.gov petition. Perhaps the President can issue an executive order forcing the Big12 to take BYU.

  • IndeMak South Jordan, UT
    June 12, 2014 1:11 p.m.

    Brio Mac:

    Stating the obvious: BYU does sell more tickets. Both main venues are larger.

    With 50%+ of the population of Utah being fans of BYU and less than 20% of the fans being Utah, they should sell more seats.

    With that said, Utah had 99% renewals for football even as a lowly Pac 12 team and the prices continue to go up at an alarming rate. I have asked for two more tickets the past three years only to be denied. Utah also sells more apparel, souvenirs, cool Pac 12 stickers.

    BYU did sell out the Utah game and Stadium of Fire last year.

  • Ronald Uharriet SWun City, Ca.
    June 12, 2014 1:10 p.m.

    If we can’t get into the Big 12 or the Pac 12, there is still a way that BYU could have it great by staying an Independent. Don’t misunderstand me. More than anything else in college football right now, I want our Cougars to be a part of the Big 12. But, having said that,

    If the powers that be, get rid of the point system, and increase the play off system to include all teams from the Power 5 conferences + the Mid Major Conferences + the Independents, there would be no real reason, other than scheduling issues, to ever leave the Independents.

    Don’t force Texas to expand beyond 10 teams for a conference playoff, but instead, let all conferences and all independents, decide within there own group how many teams they have for their own group play off and let that winner of that play off advance to the National Playoff. Inclusion for all 128 Division Teams into the national playoff system to equal access to play for the National Championship would end the need for constant scrambling to expand or retract in each conference or as an Independent

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 12, 2014 1:09 p.m.

    With the amount of interest most Utah "fans" give to BYU, I don't know why the Big 12 WOULDN'T want BYU, to be honest. BYU would bring the BYU fanbase AND the U fanbase to the table as well.

    Granted that's only about 50,000 extra people on top BYU's national fanbase, but still, every little bit counts, right?

    Now THAT's market power. How many schools could say they could bring two separate fanbases to another conference? Not many :)

    Go Cougars!

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    June 12, 2014 1:02 p.m.

    Two For Flinching

    Meaningful conference championships won in the last half century in conferences that still exist:

    BYU 23
    Utah 6

    It's laughable that Utah fans still cling to championships won when the Utes were only playing a 4- or 5-game conference schedule.

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    June 12, 2014 12:31 p.m.

    "The only people in the nation who think byu deserves or will ever get a seat at the big boy table are byu fans. No one else is talking about byu. I'd hate to be in their position right now, but we're not!"

    Because--we are big boys look what we can do. We can play like big boys do. We can win them on and off. Golly wow! We are big boys now.

    Go Utes!

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    June 12, 2014 11:54 a.m.

    Mormon Ute:
    You conveniently forgot to mention that BYU outsells tickets and attendance to their games over Utah by over 40%. Percentages are secondary to overall numbers and is just a backdoor approach to a topic you're not going to win on.

    You also said your bishop received offers (in past tense). Present tense is more meaningful. Those former offers were for nosebleed seats and in very limited numbers. Even those tickets are now harder to come by.
    But nice try using a squirrelly twist.

    And so we see that regardless of the angle or approach (often very fickle and hardly on topic when coming from rival fans) the overall fascination with all things BYU continues... just as previously noted.

    Keep em coming, Ute fans. Your imaginative approaches truly are entertaining to read.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    June 12, 2014 11:47 a.m.

    hedgehog

    Trust me, there weren't any major violations and there won't be any "program crippling" decisions.

    When the results are finally released, it'll be obvious that all of the hysteria and hand-wringing was a tempest in a tea cup.

    Nothing but a few minor indiscretions and some mild hand slapping will be the end result.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 11:47 a.m.

    @ Brio

    "On top of that, BYU has more conference championships than Utah."

    Not true. All-time Utah has 24 conf. titles. BYU has 23.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    June 12, 2014 11:42 a.m.

    It's interesting that 18,106 fans have responded to the poll question on EPSN:

    Should the Big 12 let BYU into the conference?

    65% Yes
    35% No

    For a program that, according to the kids on the hill, NOBODY except BYU fans cares about, there certainly seems to be a lot of interest from around the country, with a 2-to-1 majority, even in Big 12 country, favoring the Big 12 inviting BYU to join their conference.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 12, 2014 11:09 a.m.

    -What "impending NCAA violations"? Is the U planning some so the Utes can feel like "big boys"?-

    -snack pack-

    Wow, nice deflection. Probably not the best way to handle what could be a program crippling decision.I'm somewhat amazed how cougar fan spends its time putting together lists and pie charts on how great their program is but finds the ability to not address the more urgent issue. NCAA violations.

    I guess you found your happy place

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    June 12, 2014 10:46 a.m.

    Peavler makes some good points. I particularly like what he says about the Pac 12 and BYU. The U has established itself as a major research institution and the Pac 12 values that heavily. A friend of mine has been making that case for a long time. That could be the major deciding factor behind not inviting BYU. The Church leadership long ago made a decision that the main focus at BYU is to give a quality education to as many students as possible. Research has not been a high priority.

    Also, on a percentage basis, the Utes have outsold the Cougars in football for years. This includes a higher percentage of season ticket renewals. I have mentioned on these comment boards before that my Bishop used to get a letter every summer inviting us to buy tickets to football games for a dollar each for our youth groups. I saw this as BYU's desperate effort to fill LES.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 12, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    MidwestOutsider

    It seems that by stomping Texas in 2013, losing at Texas by a single point in 2012, beating Oklahoma in Cowboys Stadium in 2009, and being 5-1 combined versus Texas(3-1) and Oklahoma(2-0), BYU has already proven that the Cougars can compete with the big boys of the Big 12.

    That's not saying that BYU would immediately become one of the top teams in the conference, but they've definitely proven that they would be competitive in the Big 12.

  • chhs2 Eagle Mountain, UT
    June 12, 2014 9:31 a.m.

    The Power Five reminds me of the pigs in Animal Farm. It has become four legs good, two legs better among the pigs. They have defined college football so that the pigs get the slops. By their redefinition over time no recognition for good college football will go to deserving colleges who have that once in a while great team. Consider Boise State and the U of U in their great season having to face each other rather than one of the members of the Power 5 conference. It has been an evolution. Of course, the U of U is now a member of the pig squadron. I am sure there are others who would like to be included in the pig conferences.

    This latest iteration of the Power 5 is not static. The Big 12 doesn't want to expand because they don't want to share any more of the slops. While some pundits see an expansion of 14 teams in each of the Power 5, there is no guarantee that they won't decrease by letting go of their bottom feeders so there is more for the schools that "really matter."

  • MidwestOutsider Topeka, KS
    June 12, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    What is with the lack of maturity and civility here? The bottom line is the same for both BYU and Utah. Why did Utah get Fiesta and Sugar Bowl invites despite being a member of the lowly MWC? Why was BYU given the national championship in 1984? Because they did then what they cannot consistently do now. Win! If they don't start, Utah can continue to brag about their PAC-12 membership...from the bottom of the PAC. BYU will never achieve Notre Dame-like respect as an independent, nor will they become any more attractive as a target for expansion. They both have to earn respect. I think Utah's ability to do that in more recent history than BYU has paid dividends. As for the Big 12, we don't need another Iowa State or KU in football. We like to see competition. I'm not saying BYU would be on that level if they got an invite, but they need to prove it to be in.

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    June 12, 2014 9:02 a.m.

    @ MyPerspective:

    Actually BYU has literally almost always finished in the top half of every conference they've been in for the past half century. And that's been 95% of that time period that they've competed in conferences. It's been a very long time since they haven't been in the top tier of each and every conference they've played in.

    That's a claim Utah can't make. Not at all.

    On top of that, BYU has more conference championships than Utah. Comparing the trophy rooms of each program is very telling of how each school has done in the past... overall.

    And based on what's been happening with Utah's latest conference affiliation, it is going to be a very long time before they can even think about adding any more conference championships. A very long time!

  • No playoff for U Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 8:58 a.m.

    To all Utah fans:

    A program that seldom even competes for a conference title (only 6 in the last 60 years), has no business even discussing national title scenarios.

    --------

    navelvet

    The Utes are nothing but a midmajor masquerading as a big boy - NOTHING Utah has done since joining the PAC 12 gives any indication that the Utes are anything but a midmajor; you're not even good enough to qualify for a bowl anymore -- 4-5, 3-6, 2-7, with back-to-back bowl less seasons says it all.

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    June 12, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    I would never be willing to spend even half the time reading and commenting on Utah articles that so many Ute fans ALWAYS do on BYU articles. Ute articles just not worth it to me. Simply not enough genuine interest in what's happening in Uteville. Most BYU fans apparently and undoubtedly feel the same way.

    It's a genuine tribute to BYU that so many fans of all surrounding colleges (even many from out of state) show so much interest in whatever is happening to BYU. Love em or hate em, the interest is definitely and visibly there.

    It's no wonder at all that so many more articles are written about BYU than all other college programs in Utah put together. BYU fans enjoy the articles and fans of other programs jump on them quicker than lightening with avid and obvious interest.

  • Copacetic Logan, UT
    June 12, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    Wow!
    The vast majority of interest to this article is from Ute fans apparently scared of what might happen to BYU regarding it's relevancy to Utah. How ironic.

    I've never seen rival opponents of any team more concerned with their rival than Utah fans are with BYU. Totally fixated... as verified by the number of Ute fans commenting to this article. And not just this article. It's every BYU article that comes out.
    That truly qualifies as some sort of obsession, per it's very definition.

    But the big question is why?
    Why are they so concerned about BYU's future in any conference?
    Why are they so concerned with each player who commits to BYU?
    Why are they so concerned with each and every media article on BYU?

    It says a lot about the legitimacy and overall significance of BYU to have their rival so overall and totally concerned.

    May your great interest in BYU continue, Ute fans. It's truly entertaining.

    It's more entertaining than watching most Ute football game with little hope of winning.

    It's more entertaining than watching the Ute football coach merry-go-round at the end of each season.

  • mdp Bountiful, utah
    June 12, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    Personally, I dont think BYU (or Utah for that matter) have the recruiting power to get the depth necessary to compete in a major conference. They both have the talent to compete in a big game or two, but not in a full season. Should BYU get a bid to the Big 12, they will be a bottom tier team, just like Utah in the Pac12

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 12, 2014 7:50 a.m.

    hedgelog

    What "impending NCAA violations"?

    Is the U planning some so the Utes can feel like "big boys"?

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    June 12, 2014 7:45 a.m.

    little perspective

    "it's a lot of fun knowing that BYU will never finish in the top half of ANY conference."

    It's a lot of fun laughing at the desperate "predictions" of the haters.

    WAC/MWC/PAC Football Championships

    BYU 23
    Utah 6

    It's a safe bet that BYU will win their next conference championship, long before the Utes play in their first Rose Bowl.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    June 12, 2014 7:40 a.m.

    Ken

    "The only people in the nation who think BYU deserves or will ever get a seat at the big boy table are BYU fans. No one else is talking about BYU."

    Apparently, the only people in the nation who share your head-buried-in-the-sand opinion that "no one else is talking about BYU" are BYU-obsessed haters like U.

    CURRENT ESPN Fan Poll: Should the Big 12 let BYU into the conference?

    YES 64%
    No 36%

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 12, 2014 6:20 a.m.

    Hmmmm, no mention of the impending NCAA violations? I guess corporate put the kabosh on that one.

    My sense is the damage caused by the inevitable punishiment and public shame will drastically affect the other myths.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 2:35 a.m.

    Jim1027
    St. George, UT

    "Perhaps they [Utes] should finish in the top half of their conference, at least once, before disrespecting other teams?"

    Actually, Jim, it's a lot of fun knowing that byu will never finish in the top half of ANY conference.

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    June 11, 2014 10:35 p.m.

    I see Utah, on a year to year basis, able to compete to some degree with Washington State, Oregon State, Colorado, maybe Arizona. But if you are a n in demand high school star athlete, where are you going to go given all choices…Seattle, Palo Alto, Berkley, Los Angeles, Phoenis/Tempe, or Salt Lake City? I rest my case. Good luck to the Utes, but they have to contend with a miserable climate and less than cool SLC. And I doubt the athletes care much about the U as a research center!

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 11, 2014 10:01 p.m.

    The backstory on how TCU got into the Big-12 is fascinating.

    DeLoss Dodds was the Texas Athletic Director who essentially was the decision maker of final resort for the Big-12. In other words, if Dodds didn't support it, it wouldn't be done, in terms of Big-12 business.

    TCU's Athletic Director drove to Austin to meet with Dodds, and waited all day long from 8:00am to 3:30pm to have a word with Dodds, and finally DeLoss came out of his office and invited the TCU AD out for dinner and drinks. Four hours later, and without having discussed any of the actual merits of inviting TCU, the two parted ways after an evening of drinking, and the next day phone calls to the TCU Athletic Director's office started coming in, asking what he had done.

    It seems DeLoss Dodds called a Big-12 meeting the morning after socializing with TCU's AD, the Big-12 voted to extend an offer to TCU that day, and that was it. It took less than 24 hours.

    DeLoss Dodds is gone now, retired, but what a crazy story about how the Big-12 added TCU.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 11, 2014 7:11 p.m.

    thebigsamoan:

    "...it'll be so delicious, if for no other reason than to see the haters squirmed and gagged in their nauseous hate and venom against everything BYU"

    ...but until THEN...

    ...Haha! Midmajors forever!

    Aaah! That was "delicious"!

  • Flip McFetch Las Vegas, NV
    June 11, 2014 7:03 p.m.

    Utah a highly ranked research univ.?
    Forbes top 20 (US): No.
    The Center for Measuring University Performance (US): Utah #49.
    I'm sure that there are other reputable US based rankings that someone else can scour up.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 11, 2014 5:35 p.m.

    Another comment, from a Utah fan’s perspective, what Utah did to earn the invitation to the PAC-12:

    Many Y fans express the opinion Utah was invited only when the other 5 schools rejected an offer. Utah was not a "first choice". Absolutely correct - but not quite as they imagine. Colorado was in... it was the PAC-11. Five offers were made but not to the PAC-12's top choices (IMO). Probable top choices - Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Ohio State, and Florida (or Michigan ...) But that wasn't going to happen!

    Similarly, the five offered were not going to happen. Texas A & M was not going to accept the PAC-12. Why? Someone much more knowledgeable than I about Texas A & M would have to say. But they wanted SEC ( got it) or get away from Texas or...

    As Commissioner Scott said, Utah was always in the PAC-12's plans.
    Now Utah's position
    1) Accepted (probably) proposed phase in. $0 first year - 4 years for full share
    2) Acknowledged Colorado deserved full membership - $5M buy out to Big 12 and bigger TV market
    3) Position of working together in any way to earn membership!

    Deal closed!

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2014 5:33 p.m.

    "Luck added that there are no "available teams" -- schools from the non-Power Five leagues -- that would add value to the Big 12's per-school revenue"

    That's going to hurt some egos.

  • utesgoingdownthehill Salt Lake City , UT
    June 11, 2014 5:31 p.m.

    @ChrisB just the fact that you enjoy mocking BYU more than having a good football team makes me want BYU to stay mid major all my life so I don't need to resort mocking another football team to make myself better. That's so elemntry school bro.cheers!

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 11, 2014 4:49 p.m.

    (last comment to previous post)

    "The best thing that BYU can do to help its cause is to win games. While an 8-5 season certainly isn't bad, the Cougars need to assert that they are a team that can't be ignored. BYU hasn't finished ranked in the AP Top 25 since it went independent, and that has to change this year."

    Total agreement. Who knew the U was working to get into the PAC-12 for some 10 (?) years? Was there any public pleading - no. Any discussions were "behind the scenes". That is where most serious issues are discussed/resolved. There is a natural reaction against seeking outside pressures. I've said it before, and it applies here, Utah made its case of being difficult to avoid. Highest winning bowl percentage of teams with more than 5 bowls. Most wins by a "non-bcs" team over bcs teams. Beating Alabama(!) in the Sugar Bowl. Two undefeated seasons in the past 10 years. This is how Utah earned an invitation to the PAC-12 conference. (Not to forget its status as a highly ranked research university!)

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    June 11, 2014 4:29 p.m.

    It's very possible that BYU may never be invited to join any of the 5 so called power conferences but if it ever happen, it'll be so delicious, if for no other reason than to see the haters squirmed and gagged in their nauseous hate and venom against everything BYU!

    Frankly, I don't give a hoot if they ever got invited. I'm quite content with them staying independent and play to win no matter what schedule they play.

    Go Cougars!

  • Jim1027 St. George, UT
    June 11, 2014 4:12 p.m.

    Sour grapes?

    Do Utah fans google every mention of BYU just so they can be the first to post their negative remarks?

    Perhaps they should finish in the top half of their conference, at least once, before disrespecting other teams?

    Maybe they should ask themselves how long their present football coach will have a job before ripping Bronco?

    I'm just wondering!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 11, 2014 3:58 p.m.

    Lifelong Ute

    I hate to admit it; but I feel the same way. The BYU fans on these boards, not all mind you, that come across as overly sensitive and pompous have pretty much sealed the deal for me. Also, no one is going to invite a school that comes in demanding TV rights and dictating what days they will, and will not play on. The Big 12 has basically confirmed that.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    @utesonthehill looking down at byu,

    We do enjoy mocking your football program that no one wants to invite. We do enjoy beating you year after year after year, even though you aren't our rival. We know we are your rival so its fun to smash your dreams of beating your rival in your "Super Bowl" every year

    LOL

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2014 3:43 p.m.

    Chris B
    Salt Lake City, UT

    From ESPN today:

    "Luck added that there are no "available teams" -- schools from the non-Power Five leagues -- that would add value to the Big 12's per-school revenue"

    LOL!

  • utesgoingdownthehill Salt Lake City , UT
    June 11, 2014 3:27 p.m.

    Best part of reading BYU article is comments from Utah fans. They claim no one is talking about BYU while posting 100+ comments in every BYU article. Oh irony!

  • Lifelong Ute Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2014 2:55 p.m.

    Part of me wants byu to be invited to the Big 12, just to watch them struggle worse than Utah is struggling in an even better conference(Pac 12), but more of me enjoys watching byu's coach have to beg publicly for an invite, only to watch the Big 12 turn their nose up to byu.

    Its delicious! I hope no conference ever invites byu, and its looking almost certain that's the case!

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    June 11, 2014 2:27 p.m.

    @Wiscougar,

    "plausible they join the pac12" No. We will never invite you

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    June 11, 2014 2:07 p.m.

    The only people in the nation who think byu deserves or will ever get a seat at the big boy table are byu fans. No one else is talking about byu. I'd hate to be in their position right now, but we're not!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 11, 2014 2:05 p.m.

    I love how at the end of each section the author inserts "myth busted" or "myth plausible" according to his own speculation.

    Is it plausible that BYU joins the AAC? Sure, but it's also plausible they join the PAC12, Big 12, MWC, stay independent, etc. We won't really have any clue what will happen until another round of conference realignment is a reality. Until then BYU is making the most out of being independent and trying to position themselves as an attractive addition to the BIG 12.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    June 11, 2014 2:04 p.m.

    Amusing that Bronco only says BYU would love to be in the Big12 and now it's blown up all over again, even on espn's website today.

  • Mikeylikesit Davis, UT
    June 11, 2014 2:02 p.m.

    Can we please not do the list thing anymore, it takes 10 times the time to read the article/ get the information. Which is the point right?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2014 2:02 p.m.

    From ESPN today:

    "BYU coach Bronco Mendenhall wants in the Big 12, but two league athletic directors told ESPN there have been "zero discussions" about the conference expanding"

    "Luck added that there are no "available teams" -- schools from the non-Power Five leagues -- that would add value to the Big 12's per-school revenue"

    The power 5 conferences are moving on, without mid majors like byu, usu, and Wyoming.