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Guest commentary: What if all 5 power conferences have 14 teams?

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  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 16, 2014 10:09 a.m.

    truthsandwich

    It's ridiculous for any Utah fan to be whining about BYU's 1984 National Championship, after Utah fans made such a fuss about how "deserving" Utah 2004 was of being given a chance to play in the national championship game after the Utes only beat three regular season opponents with winning records, none with better than a 7-5 record.

    Even more ridiculous for Utah fans to pretend that the 1944 NCAA tournament championships banner hanging in the Huntsman Center rafters represents a "national championship" for a team that finished 1944 with a 6-1 record versus college teams, after only playing two college teams during the entire regular season.

    When the Utes take down the NCAA tourney banner and give back their Fiesta Bowl trophy, then, and only then, will be consider giving back their Crystal Football National Championship Trophy.

    j/k, because we both know that none of those scenarios will ever happen.

    Time to move on - none of your jealous whining is ever going to change the fact that BYU is the proud owner of a Crystal Football National Championship Trophy and a Heisman Trophy, symbols of the ultimate team and individual achievements in major college football.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    June 16, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    truthsandwich

    What DID happen in 1984 is BYU was selected CONSENSUS Major College Football National Champion by all FIVE major national selecting organizations, the exact same organizations that awarded championships in the same era to Miami, Penn St, and Oklahoma.

    What DID happen in 1984 is BYU impressed voters sufficiently to be voted #1 in both the AP and Coaches polls showing that a majority of national sportswriters and major college coaches felt that BYU was THE MOST DESERVING team to be chosen 1984 Major College Football National Champion.

    It's delightful knowing that it bothers you so much that your jealous, biased opinion is inconsequential compared to the opinions that really matter, the sportswriters and coaches who voted on the 1984 AP and Coaches polls.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 15, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    ..@ wiscougfan continued..

    BYU being awarded a National Championship in 84 was ridiculous, but that's more of a knock on the system, not on the Y. It is equally ridiculous that BYU didn't get the chance to prove themselves against the best because they earned that. They did the best they could with what they were given, and for a WAC team from Provo to go undefeated is a great accomplishment. It also helped people see how awful the system was and catalyzed change.

    The roots of this discussion lie in some less-reasonable fans talking about 84 BYU being EXACTLY the same (you'll notice they always put 'exactly' in all caps) as, say 2009 Alabama, dominating the best teams in the country, because the crystal footballs look the same. They are worlds apart.

    Simply put, it is ridiculous for any team to be termed "National Champions" when their crowning achievement was beating the 24th best team in the country, along with a schedule full of the worst. I have yet to see an example of a NC in any major sport that even comes close to that. I would be curious to see one.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 15, 2014 3:52 p.m.

    @Wiscougarfan

    Thank you for the thoughtful response- this is a breath of fresh air. When this topic comes up, I usually only get passionate responses like Skywalker's above, which miss the point entirely.

    I have learned something as a result of your last comment, so again thank you. There will probably be some things we always disagree on, but some things we can agree on as well.

    The closest comparison you gave to '84, or a team winning the Coaches Trophy without beating good teams, was 1990 Georgia Tech, so I looked them up. Turns out they beat 3 ranked teams, including #1 Virginia at VA (VA was still #1 until the 8th week of the season when they met GT, finished ranked 23rd) and End-Of-Season 9TH ranked Clemson. They then went on to beat #19 Nebraska in the Citrus Bowl (Nebraska finished 2nd in the big 8 behind NC Colorado and ahead of #17 Oklahoma). This is a much more impressive season than 84 BYU. I am still looking for anything that even comes close.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 15, 2014 2:40 p.m.

    @Skywalker

    "NOBODY can say for sure whether BYU 1984 would have won the National Championship "by today's standard"

    Sports Illustrated, Robbie Bosco, and reasonable thinkers excepted.

    "Can you definitively prove that BYU wouldn't have beaten whoever they played in the championship?"

    Nope. I can't prove they wouldn't have won the championship game last year if they had the chance to play in it. Guess they should be considered NC for last year too?

    "What MIGHT have happened in 1984 is pure speculation"

    Exactly. So why are you speculating? I'm talking about facts; what did or did not happen. What didn't happen is BYU beating any good teams or winning any major bowls.

    "BYU won the National Championship based on the standards of 1984 - that is an incontrovertible FACT!"

    Yes it is, and you've never seen me argue it. What you have seen me do, which has bothered you so much, is point out how ridiculous it was. They changed the entire system, partly as a result.

    BYU beat the worst teams in college football, then beat a bad team from a bad conference in a non-major bowl. National Championship by today's standards? Nope.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 14, 2014 10:24 p.m.

    Let me finish answering your questions...

    "And are there any other examples (maybe 2 or more) of a disparity as great as between today's standards of a NC and what happened in 84? Or in other words, have any other teams been crowned champs without beating a single top 20 team? Or playing any of the top competition? In any major college sport? Sincere question."

    First, BYU did play one team (Air Force) that finished ranked.

    1990 is one year that meets your criteria. One of the national champs was Georgia Tech. They also only played one team that finished the season ranked in the top 20. They even had a tie that season so technically BYU had a stronger championship season. However, they weren't the consensus champs that season. Some services had Colorado (10-1-1) as the #1. Colorado did a have a strong SOS but had two controversial wins and many believe they didn’t deserve the national title.

    Alabama claims they were the 1941 champs despite finishing the season ranked #20 (5th in SEC).

    Those are a couple examples but honestly BYU did have the weakest SOS of any championship team. Again, taken in context (24 straight wins, consistently ranked) it's still impressive.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 14, 2014 10:15 p.m.

    Re: Truthsandwich

    You're right that BYU most likely had the worst SOS of any national champion team in the modern era.

    However, since 1950 there have been a total of 91 NCAA football champions (for 64 seasons). That means nearly one third of all national champions are split or contested. BYU in 1984 is not one of those 27 contested champions; they are a legitimate NC, unanimously agreed upon by all the major polls and services. Why, if their schedule was so weak? It probably has to do with the fact that they won 24 straight games, a feat that has ever been accomplished by only a handful of teams. Maybe it’s because they were one of the top 5-15 teams in the country several years in a row. They did beat a #3 team (Pitt) early in the season (that finished with a horrible record, but that might be attributed to their early deflating loss to the cougars). They also beat a conference champion (Tulsa).

    Whatever the reasons, BYU was the undisputed champ. Also, BYU is now the only NCAA champ without any major NCAA violations (socks don't count).

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 14, 2014 6:56 p.m.

    truthsandwich

    The simple truth is NOBODY can say for sure whether BYU 1984 would have won the National Championship "by today's standard".

    Can you definitively prove that the #1-ranked in the AP AND Coaches polls wouldn't have been invited to the BCS championship game?

    Can you definitively prove that BYU wouldn't have beaten whoever they played in the BCS championship?

    If you claim you can, then you're not being honest, because NOBODY can give concrete evidence of what would have happened in 1984 based on today's standards.

    SOS is only ONE component of the formula and is far from the definitive component.

    What MIGHT have happened in 1984 is pure speculation? If you were trying to prove what you're claiming in a court of law, your case wouldn't even get to trial for lack of evidence.

    The only thing that really matters is this, BYU did win the 1984 Major College Football National Championship based on the standards of 1984 - that is an incontrovertible FACT!

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 14, 2014 5:18 p.m.

    @wiscougarfan

    Thank you for that response, it was one of the more reasonable I've heard on the subject. You are incorrect on at least two points though: 'most byu fans won't contest that statement' and 'based on 'one' person' Look no further than this thread to see plenty of evidence to the contrary.

    You may be surprised to learn you are seriously the first BYU fan (other than Robbie Bosco) I've heard admit it would not be a NC by today's standards. Sincere props to you for that.

    Questions I have: Is it really "most" NC prior to the BCS period, or just a few? And are there any other examples (maybe 2 or more) of a disparity as great as between today's standards of a NC and what happened in 84? Or in other words, have any other teams been crowned champs without beating a single top 20 team? Or playing any of the top competition? In any major college sport? Sincere question.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 14, 2014 1:57 p.m.

    RE: truthsandwich

    "...it wouldn't be an NC by today's standards".

    Most BYU fans won't contest that statement. But it is a little disingenuous given the context. Most NC prior to the BCS era would not have been National Champions by today's standards. Football and the analysis of team strength has come a long way in the last twenty years (the technology age).

    "the touchiness on the subject from Y fans speaks volumes"

    You making claims about an entire fan base based on one persons reasonable response to your trolling also speaks volumes.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 14, 2014 2:12 a.m.

    "Of course you haven't, because it would expose your 1984 arguments as nothing but a whiny, jealous tantrum."

    The fact that you keep bringing up a basketball tournament from the 40's to justify BYU's 'national championship' only exposes your own defensiveness about the topic.

    I'm simply pointing out a few relevant facts about '84 (BYU not beating any good teams, barely beating a bad bowl opponent after a season full of nobodies, Sports Illustrated and even Bosco agreeing that it wouldn't be an NC by today's standards)to contrast it's legitimacy against the modern era's National Championships along with, well, really every other national championship in any major sport.

    Honestly, the touchiness on the subject from Y fans speaks volumes.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    June 13, 2014 10:40 p.m.

    distortedtruth

    "I actually haven't said anything at all about basketball or 1944 yet."

    Of course you haven't, because it would expose your 1984 arguments as nothing but a whiny, jealous tantrum.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 13, 2014 4:16 p.m.

    @ND95CA

    "BYU beat a better team in 1984, Air Force(8-4) #24 in the Final AP Poll, stomped Va Tech in their bowl, than Utah did in 2004, Pittsburgh(8-4) #25 in the Final AP Poll, stomped by Utah in their bowl."

    Justifying BYU's "championship" by comparing them to a team who didn't win a championship says a lot about your argument.

    "Sorry if that strikes a tender cord, just pointing out some things that most Utah fans, including yourself, don't seem to be aware of regarding 1944."

    I actually haven't said anything at all about basketball or 1944 yet. Why so frantic and emotional?

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    June 13, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    truthsandwich

    BYU beat a better team in 1984, Air Force(8-4) #24 in the Final AP Poll, stomped Va Tech in their bowl, than Utah did in 2004, Pittsburgh(8-4) #25 in the Final AP Poll, stomped by Utah in their bowl.

    by the way,

    If strength of schedule had mattered as much then as it does now, Utah wouldn't have even been invited to the 1944 NIT or NCAA tournaments.

    Sorry if that strikes a tender cord, just pointing out some things that most Utah fans, including yourself, don't seem to be aware of regarding 1944.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    June 13, 2014 12:43 p.m.

    1984 vs 1944

    In 1984, BYU played an entire schedule of D1 major college football teams, including a team that finished #24 in the Final AP poll, went 13-0, won a D1 conference championship, was ranked #1 in both major polls from mid-November to the end of the season, finished the season on a 24-game winning, and was heavily scrutinized as to their worthiness to win the national championship by the national media and fans from across the country, and was still selected as the most deserving team to be chosen 1984 National Champions by all five major college football organizations.

    In 1944, Utah played an entire schedule of pickup games, only beat two actual college teams during the regular season, didn't play in a conference, lost in the opening round of the premier tournament of the day, wasn't ranked in a single poll, finished 6-1 against college teams made up of freshmen and a few sophomores, and received no scrutiny at all from the national media because every one was focused on fighting a world war, and wasn't officially declared "national champion" by any official organization of the day.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 13, 2014 12:41 p.m.

    @rockwell

    "Each voter is allowed to use whatever criteria they choose, and it's very obvious that voters have always considered SOS as one of their criteria. Your feeble, jealous attempt to rewrite history is laughable!"

    Sorry if I struck a tender cord, I'm not trying to make things personal and certainly not trying to rewrite history. I'm just pointing out some things that most BYU fans, including yourself, don't seem to be aware of regarding 1984.

    'If strength of schedule had mattered as much then as it does now, BYU would not have been the national champions in 1984'

    -Sports Illustrated

    BYU didn't beat a great team in a major bowl, as would be required today. That would be what Utah did in 2008, after beating several good teams during the season.

    BYU beat 0 good teams in 1984.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 13, 2014 11:40 a.m.

    truthsandwich

    The AP National Championship is decided in exactly the same way as it was in 1984 or 1936, by a simple majority of the voters selecting the team that each feels is most deserving of being the national champion for that particular season.

    Each voter is allowed to use whatever criteria they choose, and it's very obvious that voters have always considered SOS as one of their criteria.

    In 2003, the AP completely rejected the opinion of the BCS, and chose USC as their national champion, a team that didn't even play in the BCS championship game.

    Your feeble, jealous attempt to rewrite history is laughable.

    Immediately after the BYU-Michigan game, when a sportswriter asked Bosco if he felt that BYU deserved to be #1, Robbie responded emphatically "YES"!

    BYU was considered to be THE MOST DESERVING team to be selected 1984 National Champion by all 5 major college football organizations of the day.

    It's funny that Utah fans worry so much about 1984, but then pretend that Utah's 1944 banner is just as meaningful as an NCAA Championship banner today.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 13, 2014 10:48 a.m.

    @lonestar

    "The ultimate team achievement in major college football is winning a national championship"

    Much more so today, under a system where strength of schedule matters and we have a national championship game. Hardly anyone doubts Florida State's supremacy last year, but remember in '84 a lot of national media was skeptical and even disrespectful of BYU's "national championship."

    BYU spent a season beating the worst teams college football had to offer, culminating in beating a bad team from a bad conference in a non-major bowl. Definitely not a title by today's standards, according to Sports Illustrated and even Robbie Bosco himself.

    BYU has certainly never come close to winning a National Championship game.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 7:34 p.m.

    Uteology

    Who cares what U have "quested" for?

    The ultimate team achievement in major college football is winning a national championship:

    - BYU has been there, done that
    - Utah hasn't even come close

    The ultimate individual achievement is winning the Heisman Trophy:

    - BYU has been there, done that
    - Utah hasn't even come close

    EVERYTHING else, including playing in a major bowl, is ancillary to the ultimate achievements.

  • Gilligan West Jordan, UT
    June 12, 2014 6:02 p.m.

    If more money is to be made with smaller conferences, would that not suggest that going independent would mean all the money would go to your school. The 5 power conferences should break up and all the Elite programs within those conferences should go independent and form the Independent Elite and watch the money flow to just a few schools. There would be no need to have wannabes tag along at the expense of the Elite. They could schedule teams at will and the playoffs would be in their pockets. No need to share with subpar teams in a conference.Money is everything in college football today.

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    June 12, 2014 5:27 p.m.

    Stop torturing cougar fans (kidding, go ahead and do it), this is never going to happen, ever, ever, ever. Seriously, this month alone the Des News has gone above and beyond with numerous articles of "hope" to be in a major conference. As many national media outlets have reported, most find BYU to be too difficult to work with. Why would the PAC-12 want another team from Utah, they already have one. In all reality, there are schools that make sense, BYU and Boise really do not. San Diego State probably has a much better chance of joining the PAC-12 if expansion were to happen than anyone. Location just makes sense. Also, UNLV could be attractive based on location and their basketball history and Fresno State, Hawaii, New Mexico, or Air Force could be candidates. I don't see the PAC-12 going to 14 or 16. Much more revenue for each school when the number of schools in a conference is lower!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 12, 2014 3:54 p.m.

    Go Utes! Go Yale!
    Salt Lake City, UT

    @ Zona Zone

    "By the way, as an ASU guy, let me make this clear: Utah doesn't belong in our conference!"

    Says the ASU fan on a DNews comment board regarding an article which is trolling for cougar commentary because they're desperate and grasping at straws. Says the ASU fan, who was also nail-biting the entire game at RES last season. More of that nail-biting to come, Zoner!

    --------------

    And as an ASU fan she calls herself Zona, a name for the rival team down south (aka University of Arizona, aka Zona Basketball).

    That was priceless Ducky!

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    June 12, 2014 3:04 p.m.

    Brio and others: Fans of all schools, especially in the Wasatch front, like to read about all of the schools in their areas. They also like to comment on those articles. Let them alone. They have their own opinions so let them opine all they want. We can do the same, but let's be positive in doing so.

  • PizzInovations Chandler, AZ
    June 12, 2014 11:02 a.m.

    The term "mid-majors" is akin to racism. It's a put-down. It's name calling. It's used by the elite so-called "Big 5" conference to position themselves as superior. There are some 125 D-1 schools and they should all have the same access to the opportunities available. Play fair Big 10, Big 12, PAC 12, ACC and SEC!

  • Go Utes! Go Yale! Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2014 5:56 p.m.

    @ Zona Zone

    "By the way, as an ASU guy, let me make this clear: Utah doesn't belong in our conference!"

    Says the ASU fan on a DNews comment board regarding an article which is trolling for cougar commentary because they're desperate and grasping at straws. Says the ASU fan, who was also nail-biting the entire game at RES last season. More of that nail-biting to come, Zoner!

  • Gilligan West Jordan, UT
    June 11, 2014 5:48 p.m.

    All the talk seems to be about the 5 Power Conferences having 14 teams and to do that some of the conferences need to add a couple to reach 14.
    Question I have is what would prevent the 5 Power Conferences from getting rid of the schools that under perform in football. It seems reasonable that the 5 Power Conferences would want the best in the country. If this were to happen maybe all the schools in the Rocky Mountain Region would be left out.

  • Socal Coug San Diego, CA
    June 11, 2014 5:10 p.m.

    I have no issues with the current system. BYU has a great TV contract and controls their destiny.
    While the Utes are like that little brother tagging along his older brothers--yet not knowing he is smaller/slower/inferior--gets beat up on, and yet is perfectly happy being picked last as long as they play with him.
    I applaud BYU for fighting for what they can control, yet accepting of what they can't.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 11, 2014 2:03 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    To clarify, Utah has never "Quested" for anything BYU has done in the BCS era. Zero! Zilch! Nil! Nada!

    The ONLY think BYU has over Utah during this era is ONE more top 25 finish. But Utah has more impressive rankings, including the highest ranked mid-major team under BCS rules with 16 first place AP votes.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 11, 2014 12:39 p.m.

    Will litigation improve byu's situation?

  • LouisD Las Vegas, NV
    June 11, 2014 11:48 a.m.

    Finally someone (poyman) who understands at least in part, the nuances of legal battles that lie before any actual organized effort to amalgamate the P5 group into a real legal entity. At this time, it is a media creation, nothing more. There are serious problems for a P5 exclusionary cartel:

    1) 1983 SCOTUS upheld Burciaga Decision - ONLY BYU and Notre Dame as NCAA Members are actually in full intended compliance with it at this time.

    2) Interstate Commerce and Equal Justice Violations. CFB is BIG BUSINESS executed across interstate lines. Example: State agents of Ohio (Ohio State) cannot forbid Nevada businesses or state agents (UNLV) or private institutions (BYU) from competing directly against them for business (Big Bowl Revenue). Doing that as part of an exclusionary cartel is illegal. The NCAA provides a tacit umbrella because IT ALONE determines what constitutes a 'major program' and not the mythological P5 which has no charter, no commissioner, no signatory agent of reciprocity, no office or other actual "legal" status. The moment it does, it violates federal law.

    3) Federal Tax Codes that would immediately begin taxing P5 Revenues & athletes on scholarship benefits outside the NCAA.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    June 11, 2014 10:46 a.m.

    Clark W. Griswold

    Unfortunately for U, the Utes haven't proven that they're capable of actually competing in the conference.

    Utah is just like the football programs of Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt and other big boy conference bottom dwellers, living off of the spoils of the actual big boys of their conference.

    4-5, 3-6, 2-7 says it all

  • Clark W. Griswold Sandy, Utah
    June 11, 2014 10:21 a.m.

    @ Zona Zone

    "By the way, as an ASU guy, let me make this clear: Utah doesn't belong in our conference!"

    Let me make this clear so you can understand. The PAC-10 presidents and chancellors and athletic directors all voted unanimously to admit Utah and Colorado into the conference. Those schools belong, that's why they were admitted! It doesn't matter what you think!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    Zona Zone
    Mesa, AZ

    "By the way, as an ASU guy, let me make this clear: Utah doesn't belong in our conference!"

    LOL! What you really mean to say is that as an ASU guy who reads the Deseret News and comments on byu, "Utah doesn't belong in our conference."

    Not sure what you mean by "our conference." You realize, I'm sure, that the term "our" includes the Utes and the Utes completely disagree. We love "our" conference!

  • Zona Zone Mesa, AZ
    June 11, 2014 8:34 a.m.

    While we are it, the Pac-12 should create a second conference, Pac-12 II, and each year, the last place football from the PAC-12 gets relegated, and the first place from team from Pac-12 II gets promoted. That way, BYU and Utah could be swapping each other out of the Pac-12 every year.

    By the way, as an ASU guy, let me make this clear: Utah doesn't belong in our conference!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 11, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    Poyman:
    Many people have pointed to the fact that the P5 are sick of the NCAA and want a clean break from it. That's why I believe exclusion will legally take place because parameters will be put in place to ensure exclusion. IMHO I believe conferences themselves with their socialist economies of equal revenue sharing despite the fact the big dogs bring a lot more to the table will never survive the test of time. I believe you will see more elitism as big time programs further seperate themselves from the bottom feeders. Whether this becomes a conference of "independent" programs or how that will look I'm not sure. I just know that the USCs, Ohio States, and Alabamas of the world will not be ok with "equal shares" in the long run.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 11, 2014 8:07 a.m.

    I can't imagine a school were creationism is a fact and climate change is a myth being part of the PAC-12, regardless of their "world-wide audience". BYU fits in the Big 12, only Texas is as arrogant.

    "I’ll tell you point blank, a lot of people think Texas is arrogant. Some Big 12 people think BYU is arrogant, as well. These are perceptions that have to be overcome before BYU, in my mind, gets a serious audience with people in the Big 12." -- American-Statesman

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 11, 2014 8:07 a.m.

    Does anyone really think that if byu joined a conference, any conference, they wouldn't be on tv?

    Or that if they joined a mid-major conference, they wouldn't be able to schedule just as many P5 opponents as they do now as an independent?

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 11, 2014 8:01 a.m.

    ProudUte:
    I wasn't talking about why BYU isn't in a P5 conference I was addressing Perspective's notion that Utah has been more significant this century...can't believe that didn't penetrate. Btw, most of this is entertaining to me as well. I've been a UGA fan since their national championship with Heisman Troohy Winner Hershel Walker. I lived there growing up so I know all about big time football, and trust me when I say that neither BYU or Utah are big time. That's why I said neither program is really "looking up" at the other. Neither program is elite and probably never will be...that's the reality I've accepted as a BYU fan. Question is can Utah fans ever accept it, or will they continue with delusions of grandeur?

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    June 11, 2014 7:43 a.m.

    Good plan, Ken. We'll---ahh--we'll get back to you on that.--The Pac 12

  • Pac12guy Harrisburg, PA
    June 11, 2014 12:52 a.m.

    I'm not a Utah fan, but am big on the Pac-12 and closely tied into what's happening inside. The reality is that the Pac-12, if it were to expand, would have no interest in BYU. The conference would only add schools that (1) were represented in all major sports, (2) added a significant new television footprint, (3) were AAU research-oriented universities (a prime condition to Pac presidents), and likely also (4) enhanced the Pac-12's current national TV profile by expanding into the Central Time Zone to allow for earlier starts (noon EST) for football and basketball. TV is a major ruling force in this What we're talking about here are schools like Texas or Kansas, not BYU, not Boise State (laughable academics), and not any school represented only in football.

    The bottom line? Unless there's a major shakeup across the board with Power Five schools, the Pac-12 will likely stay at twelve schools. If BYU does go to a Power Five conference, which I personally have no problem with and might like to see, it would have to be the Big XII.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    June 10, 2014 11:58 p.m.

    @ scott

    Common sense would tell you that big brother always thumps little brother.

    4 in a row
    9 of the last 12
    57-34-4 overall

    Big brothers don't get beat up by little brothers on a regular basis.

    Utah OWNS its little brother (BYU)

    BYU can enjoy their little trophies and live in the past since they can't beat Utah anymore. That's all they have left!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 10, 2014 11:56 p.m.

    @cougardawg

    Your opinion that the P5 can be excluded from top programs that are non-P5 doesn't pass muster in my opinion... The title of the playoffs is "NCAA Championship" not "NCAA Research Institutions Championship"... This is about football and not curriculum... Conferences have preferences on curriculum but not the NCAA...

    But even if we were to say that Research Institutions are the only Institutions who can play for the NCAA Championship the conferences and the P5 Organizations have a big problem... Many of them are no more Research Institutions than those who are excluded... I don't think that division works...

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 10, 2014 11:50 p.m.

    @tomahawk red

    Your comments are always entertaining... you say what you want and never let facts, precedents, rules and laws get in the way of your logic...

    So you don't think anyone or any agency or any court can tell businesses how they have to conduct their business... If you happen to know any folks that actually run businesses you ought to run that by them... After they finish laughing (if they are friends) they will set you straight...

    Our laws are filled with restrictions and regulations designed to maintain fairness in competition and to protect those who are unfairly compromised in their ability to compete... Anti-Trust (which means that the majority cannot deprive or attack the minority to gain an unfair advantage) is very much a law that is enforced in the United States... And my novice opinion is that the P5 movement flies in the face of this law...

    Your point on Religion Exclusion vs state against state exclusion is a violation title VII which puts minorities and religions in a protected class... You can't discriminate against someone's color, handicap, or religion if reasonable accommodation can be made.

    BYU and BSU wins this challenge.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    June 10, 2014 11:22 p.m.

    It is really simple utah fans, your school is only the second best school in the state academically, your school is third best in the state athletically and your tuition is to high.
    You were a second or third choice for the conference and you were only chosen for the local tv market. I'm sorry but even in a mid level conference BYU still would outplay and outdraw the Utes on most dayes.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:54 p.m.

    Darren Rowe
    Heber City, UT

    "Either BYU has way more fans than utah, or utah fans care about BYU way more than BYU fans care about utah. I'm going to go with both."

    Well, Darren, the last 3 or 4 weeks have seen some great stories about byu. No drama over on the Utah pages...certainly nothing like we have here. I say, let the local press fuel speculation. Let byu fans talk about being entitled to be in a P5 conference while one conference after another says...byWho?. This is priceless entertainment!

    Yep, byu is the hottest thing going right now. Quest for attention...accomplished!

  • Darren Rowe Heber City, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:17 p.m.

    Wow. 104 comments when I commented, and I'm sure there will be many more comments before this is even posted. Proving that lots of people care about BYU.

    I looked through the last week of utah articles to see which had the most comments. It was 44, but that was the article on transferring QB's which was also tied to BYU, USU and SUU. The most on a purely-utah article was 14 (The article about Travis Wilson's health).

    Think about that. A hypothetical story about what MIGHT happen for BYU had tons of people throwing in their thoughts on the topic.

    News about utah's starting QB's health, which could affect their entire season, was an article that hardly anyone cared about.

    I know that comments on an article is a relatively inexact way to show which program the most people care about. But it is still a decent rule of thumb.

    Either BYU has way more fans than utah, or utah fans care about BYU way more than BYU fans care about utah. I'm going to go with both.

    Regardless of the reason, there are a lot more people who care about BYU than utah.

  • Proud Ute ,
    June 10, 2014 10:08 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs,

    It's not that you don't have those awards, it's just that it doesn't overcome the universally accepted notion you're more of nuisance than you what you bring to the table.
    Can't believe it hasn't penetrated yet.

  • DrUte Woods Cross, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:45 p.m.

    No need to continue pointless dialogue. Red will stay red, blue will stay blue.

    The U has its new direction, the Y has its historical direction, with low probability the two teams will ever be in the same conference.

    Solution: Let time demonstrate the separation and quality between the two programs.

    PAC12 versus independence.... One program is evolving, one is in Desperate Search mode.

    BTW, has Busby resurfaced yet? It is a wonder that a school with church affiliation, honor code, yada yada yada removes a loyal long-term program manager who then falls off the radar. But not to worry, the deeper they try to hide him, the more fun the media will have finding him.

    Indeed, the future of both programs will be interesting to observe as they evolve in opposite and otherwise varying directions.

    No need to press in this forum. Let time tell the tale.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 10, 2014 8:25 p.m.

    MP:
    To clarify, don't forget that Luke staley won the Doak Walker award this century...Utah has won any such award....never. BYU has more top 25 finishes this century than Utah. BYU has won just as many conference championships this century as Utah. Utah does have two BCS victories, which is significant. Utah is literally "little" when compared to BYU in terms of fanbase & national branding. I honestly don't believe either program is "looking up" to the other at this point. Could that change? Certainly, but I don't see that as the case now.

    Go Cougs!
    Go Dawgs!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 7:11 p.m.

    scott
    Alpine, UT

    byu's accomplishments you refer to were news last century.

    byu is looking up...way up at the Utes these days. In fact, it is clear that byu wants to be Utah.

    You need to keep up, bro.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    June 10, 2014 5:52 p.m.

    Elmer Fudd

    Common sense would tell you that

    the program that had ELEVEN AP Top 25 finishes, before the Utes cracked the AP poll for the very first time,

    the program that's won a National Championship,
    a Heisman Trophy,
    15 National Individual Awards, and has had
    6 National Hall of Fame Players

    is the big brother of the program that's never won a single national award of any kind.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 5:38 p.m.

    ExecutorIoh
    West Jordan, UT

    Good grief, where did you come up with the nonsense you put in your two posts above? The stories you told are quite...well...remarkable. Thanks for the history lesson but really...you shouldn't have bothered.

  • kfbob SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 10, 2014 5:35 p.m.

    BYU will have to earn a spot in the top 64-70 teams. Right now they are bigger and have a better reputation than approximately 50-60% of the self described "power conference" teams. BYU has better facilities than probably 50% of the "power conference" teams, with larger football and basketball stadium than probably 80% of them. They have over twice as many fans as Utah (300K vs 700K), and they are ranked much higher on graduate salary (#78 vs. 228) Historically, Our overall athletic program would be comparable to the upper tier of the PAC-12. Utah's overall athletic program is weak and has always been mediocre.

    However, at the end of the day, BYU may or may not get invited. Only time will tell. They could easily dismantle the football program and use the money and space to enhance their already 1st class education. Outside of an average Medical School in SLC and post grad research, the Utes really are a mediocre institution for the 98% of their undergrads.

    BYU will need 2-3 really good years in Football and Basketball to get invited. If they do that's great if not the University will move onto bigger more important goals.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    June 10, 2014 5:03 p.m.

    @ CougarSunDevil

    "It wasn't until Utah fans started demeaning and belittling their older brother (BYU) when they went to the PAC to point out Utah's place"

    BYU the older brother? LoL.

    Common sense would tell you that the school that was established first is the older brother. In this case:

    University of Utah - 1850
    Brigham Young University - 1875

    Utah is and always will be the older (big) brother to BYU.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    BlueHusky
    Mission Viejo, CA

    "After the Rose Bowl, where do PAC-12 teams play? Holiday. Poinsettia. Vegas. Fight Hunger. Liberty. New Mexico."

    Answer: The Pac-12 plays wherever they want. For that reason, byu had to beg for a brand new bowl for 2014. The Fight Hunger bowl is now a first class Pac-12 venue.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 10, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    @Cougsundevil

    Just how is Utah "keeping others out now"? BYU has kept it self out for a number of reasons. Telling a conference what days you will, and will not play on doesn't help. Utah took a cut in TV shares to get in and get to where it is. The Big Boy table is a nice analogy though.

    Y Grad / Y Dad

    Anytime Bro! Hope all is well in the tri-cities.

    I'm done; thenks for the dialogue folks; and a good evening to all!

  • ExecutorIoh West Jordan, UT
    June 10, 2014 4:19 p.m.

    Back in 2003-2004, Urban Meyer created the "Mighty Utah Student Section" (MUSS) to be able to fill seats at RES. The university would give away tickets to students, even high school students in the area just to fill the seats - all in a 40,000 seat stadium.

    Jump forward ten years... Utah is in the Pac-12 playing against top, storied programs and they continue to fill the student section by giving away tickets to the football games. BYU fills their student section of their 62,000 seat stadium by selling tickets. Even students last year had to pay $135 for season tickets, and they still filled the seats.

    In economics this is a supply/demand issue and indicates the strength of the brand. For those BYU-haters that think that BYU is irrelevant, imagine for a minute what would happen to the MUSS, if students had to pay $135 for tickets.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    June 10, 2014 4:16 p.m.

    @DN Ken Driggs

    Why don't you guys have better things to do. Like go out at pac12 and big 12 office and spy on them for a while and see Something is really going on. Stop this What IF! And stay in touch with Tom Holmoe for any new stuff going on his end.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 10, 2014 4:10 p.m.

    @TomahawkRed "And proof that Utah is (and has always been) the state's flagship institution, academically and athletically."

    Hahahahahahaha! Lol, wow, that was a good one, TR! Didn't know you to be so funny!

    Oh wait...you were being serious? Oh...

    Well, that's just as funny! Good ol' Ute fans...always good for a laugh :)

    Go Cougars!

  • ExecutorIoh West Jordan, UT
    June 10, 2014 4:02 p.m.

    I love how the BYU-haters think that BYU went independent as a knee jerk response. On the contrary, in 2007 both Utah and BYU went to Craig Thompson, the MWC commish and told him that they were unhappy carrying the conference in terms of revenue. If you watched the MTN, nearly all advertisements were for Utah-based businesses. When Thompson turned a deaf ear, both schools walked out and formulated a plan. Utah began to court the Pac-12 by investing more in research and in their Med school. BYU began IT/AV upgrades of all of its facilities and began construction of their own broadcast center. In 2009, when all the shuffle went down, Utah had their research status in place and contacts with the Pac-12 (BYU was also getting bad press because of Prop-8), but then BYU had a multi-million dollar broadcast facility that some argued was one of the best west of the Mississippi.

    None of that, Utah or BYU was a knee jerk response. It was a plan and was executed several years before 2009.

  • MurrayMike Murray, UT
    June 10, 2014 3:45 p.m.

    Reason so many ute fans are commenting, is what do they have to comment about? Another 5-7 season ahead of them? Whitt getting fired after the coming season? 2014 Season = BYU 10-2 and Utes 4-8 write it down...

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    June 10, 2014 3:14 p.m.

    I stopped reading the article and it lost all credibility when it was suggested that Boise State would become a member of the PAC 12. What?? The academic elites like Stanford, Cal, Washington and UCLA associating with Boise State? Never will happen. There is more to conference alignment than athletic teams. The Presidents of the universities send out the invitations not the AD's, coaches or fans.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    June 10, 2014 3:12 p.m.

    Spokane Ute
    Spokane, WA

    Thanks for the noogie, bro!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 10, 2014 3:12 p.m.

    CougarSunDevil

    Take a deep breath, no need to take things so seriously. You appear to have a severe dislike for Utah; we get it. You can call me SpokaneUteSeahawk if you would like; I won't get offended.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    June 10, 2014 3:08 p.m.

    @U-PAC

    Oregon State and WSU don't have medical schools. Cal does not have a med school. Oregon kind of has one, but it is located in Portland. ASU does not have a med school.

    @Everybody else
    The Power5 idea will be a fail. The issue is paying the jocks. Manziel wants to get money from his jersey sales. What about the 65 other guys on the team? Playing players as an NFL minor league? Can Utah afford that? Don't think so. The suit against the NCAA opened today. We'll know in a couple of years after the appeals.

    Meanwhile, the dozen or so "big boys" will continue to dominate the big bowls and the rest of the Power 5 conferences will continue to lose money. And play in the other bowls against one of the other 260+ NCAA Div 1 teams. After the Rose Bowl, where do PAC-12 teams play? Holiday. Poinsettia. Vegas. Fight Hunger. Liberty. New Mexico. Playing the lowly unwashed teams. Except Utah, apparently, who can't qualify for one of those bowls.

    I'm good with that.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 10, 2014 3:08 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs
    West Point , UT

    What if the day actually comes when BYU is rendered to a lower division or worse, folds up their program altogether?

    -----------

    The fact that you even typed that remark is all the proof in the world supporting why you cheer for a second-rate football team. And proof that Utah is (and has always been) the state's flagship institution, academically and athletically.

    The fact that it's even a possibility that your team may one day shut down entirely says it all.

    LOL indeed.

    ha ha ha

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    June 10, 2014 3:07 p.m.

    TR

    "The same threat has also been given in football for the last five years, only to have Y fans scurry for cover after the final whistle blows... as you realize your chest-beating and empty threats have once again embarrassed you... not to return for at least two weeks.

    Or you take a business trip to Tulsa.

    Same song, second verse. In reality, BYU can't beat Utah anymore. And apparently, you missed last year's beatdown that was relentlessly laid on your team at the hands of the Utes.

    All bark. No bite.

    At all."

    I think you have me mixed up with the wrong guy. I don't know what you're talking about. Tulsa? I've never been. I do have a life, and I don't come here every single day and make comments about another team that I don't cheer for. Sorry. And yes, if BYU's loss to Utah by less than a touchdown is a beat down, then ASU's victory over Utah by a similar margin is also a beat down. I'm just using the same logic brother.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 3:07 p.m.

    CougarSunDevil
    Phoenix, AZ

    "But congrats to all the ute fans, you've successfully changed the narrative to being about me instead of the fact that 3 years ago, Utah was the team who was looking for respect from the power (then) six."

    You are really on a roll, CougarSunDevil. What do you mean by "looking for respect"? What was Utah doing 3 years ago to look for respect? Please explain.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    June 10, 2014 3:05 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red

    "It's pathetic to the extreme to whine and moan that BYU is somehow OWED all this money and big boy football access. The ironic thing, however, is that I am certain these same BYU fans shouting "anti-trust!" at the top of their lungs would be the first to turn around and exclude all of the other mid-majors the second BYU got in.

    Because the case you're making applies to every single mid-major out there. So if BYU gets in based on that, they all get in... including Wyoming, New Mexico and Utah State. Yet I am certain that BYU fans would do everything they could to keep those schools out.

    It's called hypocrisy."

    And it's exactly, to a tee, what Utah is doing. Utah cried about not being at the table, and doing everything to keep others out now too.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 10, 2014 3:05 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs
    West Point , UT
    What makes me laugh is that Utah fans are enjoying BYUs discomfort and enjoying BYU being left out. They hope for a day when they are the lone wolf and can claim superiority in the state of Utah.

    ---------

    Already happened. More than 100 years ago.

    BYU has always played second fiddle.

    lol!

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    June 10, 2014 2:59 p.m.

    Spokeane Ute

    "I'm thinking of changing my name to SpokaneUteHuskyBruinTrojanDuck. What do you think? I couldn't lose!"

    Too bad you decided to join your other ute fans. You usually post respectable and decent posts.

    Oh, and you'd have to take Ute out to make your post accurate.

    But congrats to all the ute fans, you've successfully changed the narrative to being about me instead of the fact that 3 years ago, Utah was the team who was looking for respect from the power (then) six. Now that Utah is sitting at the big boy table with their much older and successful brethren, you're looking over your shoulder at your other brothers and making faces at them. All the while, everyone else at the big boy table are rolling their eyes and winning games left and right against you.

    No wonder you're boasting about the size of table you're sitting at and not about the food you provided or how long you've been at the table.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:53 p.m.

    Brio
    Alpine, UT

    This ultra-concern and attention by mostly Ute fans (BYU's traditional rival) is the ultimate compliment to BYU sports.

    --------

    Ha ha, fine. Take it. Take that self-manufactured "compliment" if it makes you feel any better, which it obviously does.

    Especially seeing as how compliments are coming from NO WHERE else. Certainly not the power conferences, or anyone else in college football.

    No power conference
    No respect
    No decent home games
    Dwindling hope for the future
    Possible sanctions coming
    Still on the outside looking in, now on par with Utah State

    But at least you've got that "ultimate compliment."

    LOL

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:49 p.m.

    CougarSunDevil
    Phoenix, AZ

    Can't wait to dismantle your "team" on November 1st, you know, like we've done since 1977.

    ---------

    Boy who cried wolf.

    The same threat has also been given in football for the last five years, only to have Y fans scurry for cover after the final whistle blows... as you realize your chest-beating and empty threats have once again embarrassed you... not to return for at least two weeks.

    Or you take a business trip to Tulsa.

    Same song, second verse. In reality, BYU can't beat Utah anymore. And apparently, you missed last year's beatdown that was relentlessly laid on your team at the hands of the Utes.

    All bark. No bite.

    At all.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:48 p.m.

    WA_Alum&Dad:

    Question - would you, as a BYU fan, supported Jabari Parker only playing one year at BYU, before declaring for the NBA draft?

    My hunch is your answer would "Yes!"

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:45 p.m.

    @cougs

    "What's next...the PAC12 will decide that Utah needs 5 downs to compete against Oregon and USC instead of 4?"

    Was it weird that you were forced to leave Stanford out of that sentence, even though they were better than USC last year?

    By your logic, how many downs would BYU need to be competitive against Utah?

    It must be sad for Y fans to be relegated to glomming onto the best teams in the PAC to talk trash now.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:38 p.m.

    poyman
    Lincoln City, OR

    It's just a matter of time before the Boise States, the BYUs, and others ask a judge to level the playing field so to speak... And I believe this challenge will be successful.

    -----------

    More wishful thinking.

    The problem is 1) BYU is not a state school and 2) no one has any authority to tell any company or organization what they must or must not do with their business.

    It's pathetic to the extreme to whine and moan that BYU is somehow OWED all this money and big boy football access. The ironic thing, however, is that I am certain these same BYU fans shouting "anti-trust!" at the top of their lungs would be the first to turn around and exclude all of the other mid-majors the second BYU got in.

    Because the case you're making applies to every single mid-major out there. So if BYU gets in based on that, they all get in... including Wyoming, New Mexico and Utah State. Yet I am certain that BYU fans would do everything they could to keep those schools out.

    It's called hypocrisy.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    June 10, 2014 2:32 p.m.

    With its corruption and inequities expanding, collegiate sports needs to stop being the de-facto minor leagues for the NFL and the NBA. And the only way that happens is if the US congress forces it. The chances of that happening go way up as "the haves" in college football do everything in their power to ensure and expand the inequities in money and access that have been in place for generations.

    I agree that it is very likely this situation will eventually end up decided in courts and law. If that were to happen, college football and basketball would still be just fine. the pageantry and passion that made basketball and football eclipse baseball as the most popular national sports would continue. But free all of those young athletes who are currently only pretending to be college students while they dream of and prepare for their shot at the big leagues. Give them a farm team system to make a living in as an alternative to a full-ride scholarship. And make the colleges actually compete for collegiate-level athletes.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 10, 2014 2:31 p.m.

    Y Grad / Y Dad

    Fact: Utah will not play in the Miami Beach Bowl, ever.
    Fact: BYU will not lose to Utah this year.

    8-)

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 10, 2014 2:28 p.m.

    @ Myperspective

    I'm thinking of changing my name to SpokaneUteHuskyBruinTrojanDuck. What do you think? I couldn't lose!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:28 p.m.

    CougarSunDevil
    Phoenix, AZ

    "I've lived in Arizona (or had Arizona as my home of record) my whole life and cheered ASU and BYU simultaneously. It wasn't until Utah fans started demeaning and belittling their older brother (BYU) when they went to the PAC to point out Utah's place."

    This is what I got out of your post...

    byu is, as always, the victim here. Got it ;)

    Total class.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    June 10, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    ekute
    Layton, UT

    Copacetic,

    Fact: Utah is not worried about getting left out. Except bowl games.
    Fact: There are no self imposed sanctions pending up on The Hill. Yet...

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    June 10, 2014 2:09 p.m.

    upac

    "What more needs to be discussed about BYU's knee-jerk indy experiment?"

    It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction and as far as the playoffs and restructuring of major college football are concerned, BYU wouldn't be in any better shape if they'd stayed in the MWC.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    June 10, 2014 1:59 p.m.

    U-PAC
    Rowlett, TX

    "What more needs to be discussed about BYU's knee-jerk indy experiment? Nothing, as a matter of fact."

    He says.

    Again.

    As a matter of fact.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    June 10, 2014 1:53 p.m.

    My Perspective

    "Do you know what the definition of "classy" is, CougarSunDevil? Hiding behind a Pac-12 team to accomplish what byu can't."

    I've lived in Arizona (or had Arizona as my home of record) my whole life and cheered ASU and BYU simultaneously. It wasn't until Utah fans started demeaning and belittling their older brother (BYU) when they went to the PAC to point out Utah's place. IF I were hiding behind ASU, I would just have Sun Devil in my name and would have picked a more successful PAC team to beat my chest about. You're attempt at straw man and the guilt you must feel for the hypocrisy of Utah fans as I pointed out must be your straw man reasoning.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 10, 2014 1:45 p.m.

    If the Big-12 is forced to expand, one idea that seems to be getting some positive attention is inviting Cincinnati and Colorado State.

    Cincinnati would become the "traveling partner" for West Virginia, would expand the B12 footprint into Ohio, and Colorado State would get the B12 back into the state of Colorado, in a TV market that is roughly twice the size of SLC/Provo. Both schools would join for all sports, and Sunday play would not be an issue.

    Like everything else in conference realignment, I'll believe it when I see it, but it appears to be a nice, "clean" expansion option that would not stretch that conference out too much geographically (which is a concern with inviting BYU, as Provo is further from Oklahoma that West Virginia is).

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    June 10, 2014 1:22 p.m.

    ekute

    "Fact: There are no self imposed sanctions pending up on The Hill."

    You better have your bookstore remove the sign outlining which player is associated with each number jersey for sale. Oops, too late. Oh I guess that won't be self imposed, NCAA imposed, but not self imposed.

  • River Coug Fort Mohave, AZ
    June 10, 2014 12:58 p.m.

    U-PAC,
    UNLV does not currently have a medical school, let alone a well-established one. I'm sure that the rest of your facts and opinions are every bit as valid and fact-based as your assessment of UNLV's medical school. For future reference, UNLV does have plans for a medical school. Hmm-mm, did a Cougar just school a Ute?

    To the monitor: if leaving off the last sentence is the difference between getting this comment included or not, go ahead and edit it out.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 10, 2014 12:49 p.m.

    Copacetic

    If three years is "so long ago"; how long ago was the last time BYU actually beat Utah? I believe the drop kick was all the rave and the players wore leather helmets. See, I can exagerate too. It must hurt to be reduced to rooting for other teams (in the PAC 12) to do what your team can't; beat Utah. It must also be painful to know that even when your rival has it's worst years; and the program is down, you still can't beat them. Your team was also ranked below Utah last year and got thumped in hoops. Oh well, look on the bright side; a bid in the Beach Bowl vs the American Conference awaits. Whether you win 6, or 11 games that's the destination. That Rocks. See, no clues required here.

  • 79Ute Orange County, CA
    June 10, 2014 12:28 p.m.

    SL Tribune: "BYU football already is better than a number of programs with favored (Big 5 conference) status, and has been for years. Were the Cougars to play in one of those conferences, their record would suffer. But to say they do not belong, on competitive grounds, is bogus, relative to many schools that already are in."

    Just like the U. Their record has suffered, but the U literally belongs in the Pac-12. The Y could compete in any Big 5 conference as well as the U has and will compete. Just as the U's ability to compete will improve in the Pac-12, so would the Y's ability to compete if it were in a Big 5 conference.

  • Copacetic Logan, UT
    June 10, 2014 12:26 p.m.

    @ Spokane Ute:

    I stand corrected. Utah did play a bowl game after their first year in the conference. It seems so long ago, it sometimes gets hard to remember that one. Kudos to you for having such a great longterm memory. It will be awhile until that next bowl memory is made.

    Sadly, Utah still finished that first season with a losing conference record and every year since. In fact, they continue going downhill in that regard. Hence the reason for a new Offensive Coordinator after each season.

    Utah does have a few BYU and Stanford games each season to console their overall record. Big deal. They still end up competing in the lower tier of their conference standings each and every year. Nothing to brag about there.

    And regarding that upset win over Stanford you mentioned... it was just that, a simple upset. It didn't change anything. Stanford stayed ranked in the top 10 nationally and Utah still stayed home for the holidays while continuing their losing ways right afterwards.

    So all things considered you still need to look in the mirror when trying to decide who needs get a meaningful clue.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 10, 2014 12:19 p.m.

    Concinitty

    Utah played in the Sun Bowl, on New Years Eve, three seasons ago. I hope that helps. I know you would like to pretend it's been 30 years, but it hasn't. It must be easier to spew out exagerated or false information, then actually do a little research. It certainly doesn't do much for ones credability though.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 10, 2014 11:56 a.m.

    @Copecetic

    Tell Stanford that Utah was a "non factor" last year. Now who needs to get a clue?

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 10, 2014 11:52 a.m.

    @10CC "If I recall correctly, TV ratings, including recent bowl games, have indicated Utah has made up a lot of ground, in general."

    I don't think that's true. From a SportsMediaWatch report, last year, even excluding the bowl game, BYU had 10,160,000 viewers, more than 3x the viewership of the Utes (3.3 million viewers). BYU appeared on the major sports networks (ESPN networks, plus FS1, CBS, NBC, and ABC) 9 times, while Utah only appeared 5 times (indicative).

    BYU averaged a little more than 1.1 million viewers per game; Utah averaged 660K per game, a little more than half of BYU's average. Also, the BYU/Utah game was Utah's highest rated game of the season, while it was only the 5th highest for BYU.

    So I don't know if Utah has made up ground or not in that respect. BYU still dominates the TV ratings market, and it's telling that BYU is deemed worthy of being placed on the major networks almost twice as much as Utah, even though the Utes are a "P5" school.

    Hence, the insecurity by Utah fans. That's my theory, at least :)

    Go Cougars!

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 10, 2014 11:41 a.m.

    Utah 9-18 and on a steady downward trend since joining the PAC - 4-5, 3-6, 2-7.

    The PAC is obviously getting exactly what they bargained when they invited the Utes - another perennial conference bottom dweller to keep Washington State and Colorado company while the big boys of the conference pad their conference win totals.

    Gotta luv how frantic and emotional the kids on the hill get every time anyone even hints of BYU joining a big boy conference, because the Utes know that their PAC 12 sticker campaign is the only thing they've got going for them,

    that, and their annual pillow fight in the rockies to end another losing, bowl-less season.

  • never break .500 Los Angeles, CA
    June 10, 2014 11:30 a.m.

    uh…I'm a Ute and, uh…we beat Stanford and BYU in football…and our strength of schedule makes all the other losses almost the same as wins last year. Ummm, USC and UCLA are good and uh, that's almost like we are too. oh, and we got to post season NIT in basketball and were routed by St. Marry's of the WCC in the opening round. So, we're really good there too. We have a tiny stadium and no one much watches our games in either sport, but that makes it easier to get tickets. Go PAC12…we're awesome.

  • Concinnity Richfield, UT
    June 10, 2014 11:24 a.m.

    @ Brave Sir Robin:

    Considering how long it's been since Utah has played anytime even close to the "Christmas" (bowl) season, it's been quite awhile they've been able to consider it "wonderful".
    Contrary to that, Christmas time (bowl season) has been and continues to be quite wonderful for BYU fans.

    As such, it's obviously the Ute fans who are falling back on the "if's and but's"... and for good reason.

    Even with 100 monkeys in a room full of typewriters... sadly, Utah still won't be any closer to a winning season or qualifying for a bowl game.

    Sorry, but the truth is what it is and needs to be lived with.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    June 10, 2014 11:20 a.m.

    What a joke. The prestigious Pac 12 would never consider an alignment with the likes of Gonzaga, Boise State or BYU. What would be the point?

    Re: Poyman "It's just a matter of time before the Boise States, the BYUs, and others ask a judge to level the playing field so to speak... And I believe this challenge will be successful."

    You mean "tilt" the playing field for teams that couldn't "level" it through their play on the field like Utah and TCU. Won't happen and shouldn't happen.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 10, 2014 11:14 a.m.

    Copacetic:

    "I definitely and truly wouldn't trade places with Utah if given the chance."

    I think this would put you in the small minority of BYU fans, who have had aspirations of joining the PAC for decades, probably since before you were born.

    Now, if you want to stay in a lower tier and rack up the wins, by all means, that's your prerogative. Eventually, BYU may be like the Triple-A baseball team that has the best attendance and great community support, but still isn't in the major leagues.

    Utah fans and TCU fans have learned the hard way that our previous arguments about strength of schedule really weren't accurate. Utah and TCU both have .333 records in their respective conferences since moving up, while both have faired quite well vs BYU in the past 6-8 years.

    The separation is occurring.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 10, 2014 11:11 a.m.

    Copacetic,
    Fact: Utah is not worried about getting left out.
    Fact: There are no self imposed sanctions pending up on The Hill.

  • Copacetic Logan, UT
    June 10, 2014 11:08 a.m.

    @ 10CC:

    The basement teams of any of the P5 conferences have no legitimate claim to superiority. Wow. Talking about grabbing onto coattails! It sounds so funny when you say "we". What exactly is it that you have personally done to merit that association?

    Considering the direction Utah football has been going since joining the PAC12 (no winning seasons or no bowl games), there is already amble reason for concern without waiting for the season to get much closer... contrary to your statement.

    Utah was a non-factor once again last season and this next season's schedule is supposed to be even tougher.

    All things considered, your concern for Utah football should already be in high gear. What's happening in Cougarville should be one the last concerns of any intelligent Ute fan.

    And yet Ute fans continue to dominate the comment boards on almost all BYU sports articles. As someone pointed out, the first 5 on this one were all from Ute fans. Their and your concern is truly misplaced.

    It's understandable why BYU fans are rolling their eyes at you guys. You and other ultra-Utes should really try harder to get a clue.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 10, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    truecoug1:

    If I recall correctly, TV ratings, including recent bowl games, have indicated Utah has made up a lot of ground, in general. (Obviously bowl game comparisons the last two years are not applicable. Utah needs to step up, without question.)

    (The following is not scientific, but is an application of "Big Data", the emerging practice of deriving information from large, diverse data sets.)

    There is a person who has compiled Facebook "likes" and plotted them by zip code, in the State of Utah, comparing BYU and Utah. Utah County is solidly blue, understandably, with large sections of SL County being red, and a fair amount of "purple" (ie, not Weber) scattered throughout other population areas along the Wasatch Front.

    Sports apparel sales suggest Utah is ahead of BYU, but I don't think that is solidly representative of reality.

    It's a split state, right now, without question.

    Utah fans appear to have weathered the reality of joining the PAC, where double-digit win seasons will be pretty rare. TCU is going through the same transition, as they've gone 6-12 in two seasons in the B12.

    Definitely a big step up.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 10, 2014 11:04 a.m.

    Copacetic

    You may actually want to get your facts straight before posting. Utah won the Sun Bowl in the first season in the PAC 12. I also love how 3 seasons in a very tough conference, has sealed Utah's future. No worries about changing places either; no Utah fan wants to be the Nomad of college football, locked into a lowly bowl in June vs the American conference, and on the outside looking in as the power conferences seperate from the rest of the schools. I also find it ammusing and ironic when BYU fans rank on Utah in the PAC 12. How would BYU fare? Considering they have lost every game they have played against Utah, since they joined the PAC 12; it's safe to say 13th place would be about right.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    June 10, 2014 10:53 a.m.

    I love these wild hypothetical articles written by "guest writers" designed to appease the BYU masses. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas.

    What if all 5 power conferences have 14 teams? Which one would BYU be in?

    What if we put 100 monkeys in a room full of typewriters? Which one would eventually reproduce a work of Shakespeare?

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 10, 2014 10:51 a.m.

    Utah reminds me of the kids in little league smiling for a picture holding their "membership" trophy. What's next...the PAC12 will decide that Utah needs 5 downs to compete against Oregon and USC instead of 4? Or maybe they'll have a consolation division where the 9th place team can beat the 10-12 place teams so they can have a trophy too. That membership trophy does look nice though next to...uh...lets see...what other trophies? Ahhh yes, I forgot about the SOS trophy for 3rd place last year...silly me. They do look nice together.

  • Copacetic Logan, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:46 a.m.

    @ ekute:

    Considering how Ute football has done in their conference since joining, there is actually a lot of reason for "turmoil and speculation on the hill".

    Fact: Utah has yet to have a winning season since joining the PAC12.
    Fact: Utah has yet to go to a bowl game since joining the PAC12.
    Fact: Utah has beaten a grand total of 1 conference foe with a winning record. Period!
    Fact: Utah has changed Offensive Coordinators after each season since joining the PAC12.

    It seems there is plenty for Ute fans to be concerned about without feigning negative concern for BYU football. That's why Ute fans' comments on all-BYU articles are usually so humorous, especially when taken within context.

    I definitely and truly wouldn't trade places with Utah if given the chance. How could anyone ever envy a perennial cellar dweller of any conference? They can't! I don't. And with an even tougher schedule next season, Utah has no hope for moving up. It simply isn't going to happen.

    So with so little hope on the horizen for your own team, your continued attention to all things BYU is somewhat understandable. Keep em coming.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:46 a.m.

    " If the Pac-12 wanted to do something unique, the conference could invite BYU for football only and pair it with an invitation to Gonzaga for all other sports. Then the Pac-12 could add another university like Boise State to make 14 members."

    BYU, Boise State, and probably also Gonzaga (but this one I'm technically not sure on) do not meet PAC-12 academic requirements (Tier 1 research institutions).

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:41 a.m.

    @10CC "This is an historic reality, but more recent data suggests Utah & BYU are pretty close in market share, in the state of Utah."

    Great comment, I agree with everything that you said. What data are you referring to in the above quotation? I'm not trying to stir the pot, I just don't know of any recent survey of local football fans, so I'd be curious to see it.

    I definitely agree that Utah has gained ground on BYU since joining the PAC. I don't think it has been enough to overtake the Cougars in the local market share, and I do think that this causes insecurity among Utah fans. They feel that PAC membership should have been enough for the Utes to dominate the market, and that's just not the case.

    But that may change, depending on how everything plays out. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.

    Go Cougars!

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:30 a.m.

    truecoug1:

    "Utah is the only P5 school... that plays second fiddle to a 'mid-major' in their own market"

    This is an historic reality, but more recent data suggests Utah & BYU are pretty close in market share, in the state of Utah. Without question BYU has been the more dominant program, historically, but with the PAC inviting Utah, and BYU struggling (somewhat) with independence, the scales are starting to tilt to the red. If Utah sees more success in the PAC, the scales will quickly tilt.

    In 10 years either two things will have happened:

    1. The P5/Division IV schools will have completed their breakaway, and BYU will be the biggest, most powerful G5 in the nation, but still on the outside looking in.

    2. BYU will have figured out some way to get on the train, via litigation or an unforeseen change in conference circumstances.

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    Add me to the list of those amused by the red obsession of all things BYU. Sometimes I'm disappointed during the spring/summer months when there is only 1 or 2 articles on BYU, but my disappointment must pale in comparison to CB, Navel lint, EK, Perspect and so so many others like them. Don't worry boys, media days and fall camp are just around the corner. This should give you some extra time to polish those PAC12 stickers.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 10, 2014 10:23 a.m.

    Poyman:
    You are correct in terms of divisions. I've also been saying that CFB can't establish criteria for being in a division (criteria are established now for FBS vs FCS programs) and arbitrarily exclude a program that meets or exceeds all those criteria. Here's the rub though. The hypothetical Div 4 could establish "research" criteria along with enrollments, etc, similar to what conferences like the PAC12 and B1G already have (AAU or tier 1 status). This would legally exclude BYU. Of course that's just an example, because programs like Ok St, WVU, TCU, etc would all have to vastly increase their research goals and endowments. What I'm simply saying is that they can legally exclude BYU and Boise St with a little legal maneuvering...I don't like it but it's true. This is also hard because I'm a UGA fan and they are HUGE snobs against midmajors so I tend to see both sides of it.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:22 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs,
    "What if the day actually comes when BYU is rendered to a lower division or worse, folds up their program altogether? What will you have to talk about then, ute fans?"

    We would talk about getting an even bigger advantage in recruiting instate and LDS talent.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    June 10, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    @ cougar76

    "Everyone else, including BYU can then get back to playing college football instead of chasing $$$$. As always, troll responses are not wanted and will not be read."

    Chasing the $$$$, isn't that one of the reasons why BYU went independent?

    BYU is just as driven by greed as the major college football conferences. The only difference is BYU is a mid-major school who is on the outside looking in.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:13 a.m.

    Copacetic:

    It's fascinating that you're assigning all kinds of reasons why Utah fans take an interest in things going on with BYU, when the predominant factors are actually pretty simple:

    - Utah has no drama going on. We know who we are and how we need to improve within our conference. It's June, there's simply not a lot happening, except the slow machinations toward the P5 splitting off. We're on the train, very little drama or concern for us. We're "in".

    - BYU and its fans continually provide great entertainment for anyone who is interested, from "Quest for Perfection" to Bronco (essentially) announcing that Independence is really not that great, with some improper benefits investigations and other spectacles mixed in. You guys do provide great entertainment, but it may not be the kind you're trying to exhibit.

    Comparing the thinking of BYU fans with the statements made by insiders in the Big-12 about BYU's prospects for getting into the Big-12 are an irresistible sociological study, in the summer.

    As the season gets closer Utah fans will certainly have plenty to focus on in our new reality.

    We completely understand why the P5 is superior.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 10, 2014 10:12 a.m.

    Cougar76:
    Seriously? Altitude? Now that's a new reason for the PAC not taking BYU...I'd never thought of that one!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:09 a.m.

    continued

    This makes Utah fans really insecure. They try to make up for it by throwing out PAC 12 gear and PAC 12 references everywhere, desperately associating themselves with their "big-boy" conference to "prove" that they're somehow "relevant", since they know that the U can't get by based on the school's merits alone.

    They then come on to articles like this one and try to hammer BYU fans for not being in the "P5" and stating that BYU's program is a "mid-major", BYU athletics are doomed, and desperately trying to build up Utah as a school that people actually care about, when nobody outside of the huge, 50,000 strong Utah fanbase gives a hoot.

    I have no clue what the future holds for BYU. Nobody does. I'm confident that the administration will get it done. However, I DO know that BYU carries the local market, and that bugs the heck out of Utah "fans". And I find that extremely entertaining!

    Go Cougars!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 10, 2014 10:01 a.m.

    Lol, I agree with the other BYU fans, the comments from the Utah "fans" on here are hilarious! Whether it's MyPerspective and U-PAC stating that this is the end of BYU athletics as we know it, or U-PAC saying he's a "Utah man" when all he talks about is having PAC gear (which DOES sum up a Utah "man", or I guess I should say "fan", perfectly), it's pure comedic gold!

    I think I've identified the source of the angst/BYU obsession among Utah fan: Utah is the only P5 school that I can think of that plays second fiddle to a "mid-major" in their own market. In TV ratings and fans base, as well as radio, BYU drives the market. A pair of socks at BYU can dominate the news in Utah for a week, while a swimming coach at Utah who is accused of abusing his athletes gets barely a mention from the radio heads in the state.

    continued...

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 10, 2014 10:00 a.m.

    @myperspective

    Your comments are full of opinion with little to no substance or homework to back it up... You should reread my post...

    There is a world of difference to support separation between FBS and FCS institutions... Enrollment numbers, investment in facilities, equipment, travel, etc... History of performance on the field... etc...
    These differences don't exist however, between the Boise States and the BYUs ... In fact, reasonable people could argue that some of the Universities that are left out have richer program history, more investment, and similar or even larger enrollments... Some institutions (i.e. BYU) could could also argue a Title VII violation (exclusion based on religion) which requires "Reasonable Accommodation"

    There is actually already some case history on this OU and UGA vs ABC Sports and the NCAA... A ruling that supports my contention.

    In short the law does not allow for arbitrary division when considering the loss of potentially large sums of money (millions and millions of dollars)...

    Sorry... but I think that I am pretty accurate on this one.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 10, 2014 9:58 a.m.

    What makes me laugh is that Utah fans are enjoying BYUs discomfort and enjoying BYU being left out. They hope for a day when they are the lone wolf and can claim superiority in the state of Utah. What if the day actually comes when BYU is rendered to a lower division or worse, folds up their program altogether? What will you have to talk about then, ute fans? It certainly won't be any great accomplishments of Utah because U are lower rung. Boy these boards sure will be dead! Lol

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    cougar76
    Raleigh, NC

    "Everyone else, including BYU can then get back to playing college football instead of chasing $$$$. As always, troll responses are not wanted and will not be read.."

    So, you advocate that byu refuse the checks it receives from ESPN?

    Thought so.

  • Copacetic Logan, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    I have to concur with a few other BYU commenters who have noted the continued and exceptional attention Ute fans give to all things BYU, especially regarding football.

    Their negativity doesn't mask their envy that BYU continues going to bowl games year after year while Utah sits home each post season, year after year.

    Regardless of the attempted put-downs, the envy persists that BYU spends so much more time each season being nationally ranked higher than any other intermountain program.

    The negative remarks are in frustration to BYU being on national TV multiple times more often than Utah, whose relatively insignificant conference channel isn't even yet available on the nation's biggest satellite provider. Ouch!

    When the envy factor is taken into context, the near meaningless Ute fan jabs are mostly just comments that makes most BYU fans smile, knowing that BYU's future on the national sports scene will continue evolving to where it needs to be. There is no valid reason for the concerns Ute fans apparently have. Things will fall into place where and when they should.

    Until then, allow the Ute fans to keep us smiling with their continued pious comments.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:33 a.m.

    If you pay attention to the comments of coaches and conferences, the biggest complaint is getting all the conferences to play the same number of conference games. 3 play 9 games, 2 play 8 conference games. That is an issue they can work out without a big shuffling of conference membership.

    The days of conference realignment are over.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 10, 2014 9:32 a.m.

    UPAC, thanks for the laugh. First you list the PAC12’s potential expansion partners (in order of preference) as UNLV, New Mexico, SDSU, and Hawaii. While those four teams are consistent in overall athletic strength with the last two teams the PAC invited to their conference, there is no way they make that mistake again. Second, you list how proud you are to be a PAC 12 grad, t-shirt wearer, blanket snuggler, and bumper sticker driver and then casually mention you’re a Ute fan. I don’t know if you’re taking an anti-Utah trolling stance but the PAC pride is hilarious. Just curious, are you an actual PAC12 grad, or a Utah grad (remember they’ve only been in the PAC for a couple of years)?

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:30 a.m.

    @ U-PAC

    That Savannah State game is the one I am looking forward to the most. This is the last chance that BYU fans will ever see a SWAC team come and play in the state. I hope they bring the band. If they do I will definitely be shelling out for tickets and taking my two nephews to the game. This is one of those special event type of opponents that it is an honor to play. Its not about the score, its not really about the teams on the field, it is about what they represent. You probably don't even know about the SWAC and its place in college football's history.

    There are few special games out there. BYU has played in Hawaii, against Air Force and Navy. They have also played kickoff bowls and in NFL stadiums early in the year. They have taken on Notre Dame (and will do so four more times, twice in Provo). The only special experiences that BYU has lacked is a game versus Army and a game with the SWAC.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:28 a.m.

    Brio,
    "Why the continued obsession with all things BYU?"

    Because the only hint of "turmoil and speculation" up on The Hill right now is the Travis Wilson question. The medical decision on Travis will come a month earlier than expected. So all is well in Ute camp. Although I'm looking forward to a great summer I'm also excited about the upcoming football season. Don't worry, as we edge closer to training camp there will be more articles about the Utes and you and your friends will have plenty of opportunity to post your opinion. Go Utes!

  • cougar76 Raleigh, NC
    June 10, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    The pac would never want to have BYU, Colorado, and u in the same south division. The good teams all know there is too much of a home advantage for Colorado and u playing at altitude. That is why most of their wins are at home and most of their loses are on the road. I am still in favor of the 5 (4) conferences forming their own division IV and the good teams beating up on the weak teams in their conferences. That would be followed by the same 5-6 good teams playing in the NC and big money bowls every year. Everyone else, including BYU can then get back to playing college football instead of chasing $$$$. As always, troll responses are not wanted and will not be read..

  • Objectified Richfield, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:14 a.m.

    I, like Brio and other BYU fans, find it highly entertaining to read about the concern and attention Ute fans have regarding anything BYU connected. As Chris likes to say... too funny!

    It's becoming more obvious, article after article, that because Utah simply can not become relevant in it's own conference, it's fans are now relegating their time to trying to diminish the relevancy of opponents they are most concerned with. That's always been BYU. Always has been and apparently always will be. The complete proof is in these posts.

    How else can you explain the majority of comments on this and most other BYU sports articles being made by Ute fans? Whether the comments are positive or negative in nature, the attention to BYU is truly there.

    It apparently deeply bothers Ute fans that BYU continues getting more national attention than Utah with a much bigger TV audience. And so we've come to expect snide little remarks in these comment sections whenever and wherever possible. That's all that's left while waiting for 2016.

    So until then, thank you, Ute fans, for your attention and concern regarding BYU sports. It's entertaining and complimentary.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:11 a.m.

    CougarSunDevil
    Phoenix, AZ

    "What's funny is how Utah was crying about this same issue not 3 years ago. "We belong in a power conference"

    Not one Utah fan has ever cried about not belonging in a power conference. Not one. The complaints in 2008 were related to the BCS system keeping the Utes from being the national champion that year. The whining about not being in a power conference is from byu fans. End of story.

    "Now, not only is Utah and it's fans defending the Power 5 model, but they are arrogantly rubbing mid-major school's nose in it. Really "classy" Ute fans. Can't wait to dismantle your "team" on November 1st, you know, like we've done since 1977."

    If you don't want your proverbial noses rubbed in it, stop whining and get to work to earn your way.

    Do you know what the definition of "classy" is, CougarSunDevil? Hiding behind a Pac-12 team to accomplish what byu can't.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    June 10, 2014 9:00 a.m.

    I can see the next wave of expansion going up to 16 teams with the BIG 12 getting torn apart. That won't likely happen till TV contracts are close to renewal. However the PACs cash flow has got to be getting under the skin of the executives of the SEC. That may happen sooner because of it.

    The SEC will be the first to grab two teams--Texas and Oklahoma. That will be more than enough to get better contracts than the PAC. From that point on it should be a free for all.

    The irony is that BYU as an indy still is in a sweet spot UNTIL either the leagues refuse to play or they if they join a league they can't compete in like Utah has. While I believe they can compete in the Big12, I would rather they control their own destiny by staying independent. I have loved seeing new teams come to Provo these past three years. It got MUCH better last year. Looking at further schedules I am so pumped, especially this year.

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    June 10, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    And so we have it once again. The first 5 comments by Ute fans and the majority of comments so far by Ute fans. Why the continued obsession with all things BYU?

    Why are so many Ute fans apparently more concerned with BYU than their own alma mater? This ultra-concern and attention by mostly Ute fans (BYU's traditional rival) is the ultimate compliment to BYU sports.

    These Ute fans can obviously hardly wait to read and comment on any BYU sports article... particularly football and basketball... with apparently more concern than even BYU fans, who have learned to take such things more in stride.

    Chris B: That is truly what is so funny... and so sad. You truly simply can't leave it alone, and neither can the other group BYU wanna-be's and wish-they-could be's. It's the only plausible explanation for such paranoia. Just trying to convince yourself.

    Whatever ends up happening will play out well for BYU. It always does in the long run. Their administration knows what's going on. Even now, they currently get multiple times more national media attention than Utah and all other inter-mountain college teams.

  • Kaladin Northern, CO
    June 10, 2014 8:33 a.m.

    U fans are such bandwagoners. You probably are "fans" of the Miami Heat, Seattle Seahawks, and Yankees/Red Sox too. You love the "big boys" now that they have invited you so they can beat up on you over and over whereas a few years ago you cried about the inequity and bemoaned the BCS system that let you down in 2004.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 8:25 a.m.

    poyman
    Lincoln City, OR

    "Whether the Power 5 Conferences like it or not, at some point this issue will either be legislated or decided by the courts..."

    Right, poyman. Just like the separation between Divisions I and II was legislated and stopped. Where's the outcry of injustice from byu fans about that? The P5 are on a path to become a new Division...nothing more, nothing less.

    With respect to the mid-majors...if they want a playoff, they can have one. If the mid-majors want a National Championship, they can have one. Mendenhall and his gaggle of byu fans can still call it a national championship and everyone is happy. No one is stopping the mid-majors from doing / having anything any more than Div I is stopping Div II.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    June 10, 2014 8:14 a.m.

    What's funny is how Utah was crying about this same issue not 3 years ago. "We belong in a power conference" "we're going to sue the NCAA" "This is anti-competition". Now, not only is Utah and it's fans defending the Power 5 model, but they are arrogantly rubbing mid-major school's nose in it. Really "classy" Ute fans. Can't wait to dismantle your "team" on November 1st, you know, like we've done since 1977.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 10, 2014 7:52 a.m.

    The TV contract for the Big-12 expires in about 9 years. In the meantime - especially if the B12 gets approval to have a conference championship game with 10 members - they have no incentive to expand for quite awhile.

    In 2011 Utah nearly had a Sunday game scheduled with USC - because it appeared the NFL was going to strike - which is part of the reason the P5 TV contracts include possible Sunday play.

    What if the B12 conference championship game is played on a Sunday? It would be a great opportunity for the nation to learn how LDS keeps the Sabbath holy... and it would also be a big reason why the B12 would avoid that contingency to begin with.

    New Big-12 member West Virginia is already complaining about the travel, and it's closer from Oklahoma City to Morgantown than it is from OKC to Provo. Look for the Big-12 to expand east, if they expand at all.

    Unless Texas and OU bolt, there's no reason for the PAC-12 to expand. Expanding to 14 or 16 just to match other P5s makes no sense for the PAC. Lower population out west.

  • IndeMak South Jordan, UT
    June 10, 2014 7:42 a.m.

    What if every conference had 12, 14, 16 teams? Let's dream some more.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    June 10, 2014 7:41 a.m.

    Sorry BYU fans it looks like a return to Pre-Lavell Edwards era. PAC12 had no interest and as it was stated recently neither does the BIG12. I am sure that Mr. Driggs remembers those years an no doubt would not want to return to them. I am truly sorry for the changes that have occurred with college athletics and are leaving BYU behind. I am glad that I am not a cougar fan right now, the future doesn't look too bright.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 7:21 a.m.

    BYU will be invited to the major college football national championship playoffs,

    loooooong before the Utes play in their first Rose Bowl.

    Mark it Down!

  • No playoff for U Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 7:14 a.m.

    CB

    Chances of the U ever being invited to the playoffs...

    ZERO!

    It's going to take at least an 11+ win season for the Utes to be in the playoff picture, something Utah has only done twice in their entire history and something they haven't even come close to since joining the PAC.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 10, 2014 6:44 a.m.

    "In any case, pondering these ideas could inject a little life into the off-season lull for BYU fans."

    Nothing works like reverse psychology with this pool of participants.

    Own it!

  • rj Moss, Norway
    June 10, 2014 2:33 a.m.

    Fun to speculate, and this configuration actually makes sense, given that the Sunday rule would be a non-factor. But who are we kidding? There's a growing anti-BYU vibe in the country that's getting harder and harder to ignore. Even when it makes sense, no power conference will want BYU with their demands. I'm afraid that independence is becoming less and less of a choice now.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 10, 2014 1:19 a.m.

    Whether the Power 5 Conferences like it or not, at some point this issue will either be legislated or decided by the courts...

    As I have said before, we are talking about large sums of money, money earned by state sponsored institutions... and under the current mode of operation there doesn't seem to be any consistent rhyme nor reason as to why one school gets to play for the money while another school does not.... The schools are not chosen by any objective method... enrollment varies widely, facility investment varies widely, and past performance has some more successful schools left out and some poor performing schools included...

    It is not lawful for a group of state sponsored institutions to declare which state institutions get a shot at playing for big money and which don't... Inclusion and Exclusion is arbitrary and the difference between earning potential for those included vs those excluded is large and it has Anti-Trust written all over it...

    It's just a matter of time before the Boise States, the BYUs, and others ask a judge to level the playing field so to speak... And I believe this challenge will be successful.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2014 11:59 p.m.

    The only "turbulence and speculation" is in happy valley.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 9, 2014 10:48 p.m.

    Someones been sniffing green jello to write this article up. Gonzaga was a member of the PAC 12, before it was the PAC, and even had a football team. BYU has a slim chance to be a football only member. Like Boise St., Gonzaga has nothing to offer, especially with the TV footprint.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2014 10:37 p.m.

    "Since three of the five conferences already have 14 teams, you could make an assumption that for national championship playoff fairness, there would need to be a common number of teams in each conference and each conference would have a football playoff game."

    What? National championship playoff "fairness" requires the same number of teams? Says who...byu fans?

    Clearly, all of the P5 conferences are moving to a 9 game format with P5 teams which has absolutely nothing to do with the number of teams in the conference. Under this scenario, byu is relegated to exactly what byu is...a mid-major proving that independence was a bad idea.

    How about this scenario...the Big 12 teams are picked off and divided among the SEC, ACC, Big10, and Pac-12. The four remaining P5 conferences each have 16 teams (ND is part of the ACC). Each conference has a representative team in the four team playoff. How coll is that? Of course, under this scenario, byu is relegated to exactly what byu is...a mid-major proving that independence was a bad idea.

  • theDailyObserver Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 9, 2014 10:31 p.m.

    If 'Ifs' and 'Buts' were candy and nuts, the cougars would be in a P-5 conference.