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Dick Harmon: BYU, Utah, USU and SUU to benefit from trend of impatient quarterbacks transferring

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  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 7, 2014 10:42 a.m.

    Well the cougar faithful are back after mourning the demise of their beloved cougars and beating up another of their gimme game opponents. Why is everything always Utah's or Kyle's fault? I didn't read anything in the article about the Mruphys yet they are the center of many/some of the comments? The article I read was about QB's. About how common it has become for them to transfer. It was not about steeling recruits from other schools. It was not about missionary's transferring. It was not about attacking coaches or parents of players. Isn't that off topic? Why does the Deseret News allow bullying comments like these?

  • kolob1 sandy, UT
    Oct. 24, 2014 8:49 a.m.

    How to get an athlete to switch schools ? Send him on a mission.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    June 13, 2014 1:51 p.m.

    @Navel
    "Upon returning from his mission, Jake, accompanied by his father, drove straight to a Ute practice session to observe....Nowhere in that article did it state that they drove straight to the U "from the airport", and nowhere in that article did it state that the met immediately with Kyle Whittingham."

    "Upon returning from his mission" and "drove straight to a Ute practice" seems pretty clear if you take Doug Robinson at his word.

    Show us some facts to prove your point that it wasn't straight from the airport. That sounds pretty made up on your part. Also in Doug's article it doesn't say anywhere that they DIDN'T meet immediately with Kyle Whittingham.

    I don't know if ute fall practices are wide open to the general public or if they're closed and would require something arranged and permission granted beforehand. If it was the latter then reason would dictate there was some communication before hand to gain admittance and then upon arriving because he would've been expected.

    Why get so emotionally frantic about utah's recruitment of Jake while on his mission?

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    June 13, 2014 1:36 p.m.

    @Navel
    "And 100% of THOSE sorts of comments are based off of no real facts whatsoever, but rather frantic emotion."

    nice swerve, but you weren't able to avoid the direct hit and sinking of your battleship by Bluentheface when he pulled out a cold hard fact in rebuttal. Actually both Bluentheface and Darren Rowe fired salvos that found their mark. Both referenced Harvey Unga commenting on the differences in being recruited by BYU and Utah.

    @uteology
    "Speaking of doormat, BYU is 2-5 vs PAC-12 and 0-4 vs Utah. "

    and during the Bronco Mendenhall era BYU is 9-9 vs the Pac10/12 (3 of those losses are vs Utah as a member of the PAC). I would say that BYU in the Bronco era has been mediocre but certainly not a doormat competing against the PAC.

  • Sambonethegreat Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2014 9:12 p.m.

    @tinplater

    Seems like a question not really worth asking.

    I bet Stango would disagree with you on something as simple and true as the sky is blue or the pope is catholic just out of sheer spite.

  • Stang08 Southern, UT
    June 11, 2014 12:53 p.m.

    Couldn't disagree more tinplater.

  • Sambonethegreat Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 7:04 p.m.

    @tinplater

    How come there can't be more posters on the Des News like you? You are one of the few who doesn't get caught up in the vitriol and chest-pounding.

    I thought your analysis of Utah's situation in the Pac-12 was spot on. They have a huge uphill battle and are in a potentially vicious cycle if they don't make a bowl game again.

    Besides, the banter between U and Y fans is everlasting proof those fan bases will never quit each other.

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    June 10, 2014 6:26 p.m.

    So Stang0, I don't care if you can't believe it or not..do you agree with it?

  • Stang08 Southern, UT
    June 10, 2014 1:43 p.m.

    tinplater,

    "I just don't get all this chest thumping at the cost of other school's programs? Do you get a testosterone rush by belittling others?" I can't believe you just said that. Especially after what I've heard on other sports pages. That is incredible.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2014 12:47 p.m.

    "Do you deny that your fan base is heavily comprised of folks that just need a forum to hate the LDS church and their school?"

    I would disagree that Utah's fan base is heavily comprised of people who hate the LDS church. They certainly exist, but I believe that they are a (very vocal) minority.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    June 10, 2014 10:56 a.m.

    @ Uteology

    Both schools have sportsmanship issues. Plenty of Utes, including Alex Smith who never retracted his hateful comments like Max did, have expressed their hate in various forms. But I won't get into a pity contest over anecdotal stuff.

    Do you deny that your fan base is heavily comprised of folks that just need a forum to hate the LDS church and their school? There are plenty of these that give you decent fans a bad rep. BYU's bad rep is for being poor sports and for not always being too informed about the sport we're cheering for. Sometimes fans just show up for a social gathering, etc.

    Go Cougs!

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    June 10, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    At Ute BYU fans...I just don't get all this chest thumping at the cost of other school's programs? Do you get a testosterone rush by belittling others? Both BYU and Utah face significant challenges..one as an independent, the other almost doomed to be in the bottom half of their conference. Utah has to deal with competing schools that have better climate, culture, academics, coaching, and endowment. Rose Bowl dreamin is replaced by California Dreamin for many potential PAC 12 athletes.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    June 10, 2014 7:49 a.m.

    Naval I'm not sure what part of

    "Upon returning from his mission, Jake, accompanied by his father, drove straight to a Ute practice session"

    you don't understand. It doesn't say he went home first, it doesn't say he visited his buddies forst, it doesn't say he saw his girlfriend first, it says

    "Upon returning from his mission, Jake...drove straight to a Ute practice session"

    Pretty clear language. lol

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 9, 2014 10:55 p.m.

    BigCougar
    Bountiful, UT

    @proudute
    "We're trying to wave politely to you all through the rear view mirror"

    I never realized doormats had a rear view mirror. Yes, you have us there. It's every football fans goal in life to become a doormat.

    -------------

    Speaking of doormat, BYU is 2-5 vs PAC-12 and 0-4 vs Utah.

    It's every football fans goal that their team has a chance to compete at the highest level.

    Is that what your fans were dreaming of when your team tried to join the WAC?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 9, 2014 10:48 p.m.

    @Blue
    Again, without the BYU hate, your fan base doesn't have much to cheer for. You just can't quit us. lol

    -------------

    This coming from fans that pelted PAC-12 refs with garbage last year?

    Or when players like Max Hall who only talked about his love for Utah, not his teams big win? Or how about Lenny Gomes who in 1993 after a loss to Utah was was so classy that he was more concerned about which Utah players will be pumping his gas after graduation.

  • Darren Rowe Heber City, UT
    June 9, 2014 10:25 p.m.

    @ekute and Naval Vet

    I can think of a great example of utah using negative recruiting tactics... Harvey Unga

    He decided to call Bronco and tell him he was going to utah, and call Kyle and tell him he was going to BYU. Whoever gave him the most polite and classy response is who he would play for.

    Bronco essentially said, "Congratulations. You will have a lot of success at utah and we look forward to playing against you. Good luck."

    Kyle essentially said, "What!? Are you kidding me? Why would you go to BYU instead of utah? They will just switch you to linebacker and you will hardly play, and you will be poorly developed."

    And the rest is history. He came to BYU and became our all-time leading rusher in 3 years. If you think I am making this up, feel free to Google it.

  • Bob Pomeroy Bisbee, AZ
    June 9, 2014 10:25 p.m.

    So we should solve the 'problem' by adding an additional quarterback or what?

  • GilmerTexasCougar Gilmer, TX
    June 9, 2014 9:31 p.m.

    I was definitely not an athlete. I had two years of college in Texas when I went on my mission and I had never considered for a second going to BYU. But by the time my mission was completed I gave no thought to going to any other college. My mission certainly converted me to why I should finish my college years at BYU. Athletics and a scholarship had nothing to do with it. So it's entirely possible that missionaries who are athletes might just decide while on their mission that they would rather be at BYU.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    June 9, 2014 8:56 p.m.

    @proudute
    "We're trying to wave politely to you all through the rear view mirror"

    I never realized doormats had a rear view mirror. Yes, you have us there. It's every football fans goal in life to become a doormat.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    June 9, 2014 8:45 p.m.

    @xam
    "So it's okay for kids to change their mind and transfer to BYU (Josh Sharp, Riley Nelson), but if a kid changes his mind and transfers out of BYU (Jake Murphy) then BYU somehow got shafted. Please explain the difference."

    Just the opposite, byu haters and some actual ute fans get in an uproar about it (ever read a message board on a DN article before?) and Duck was pointing out the hypocrisy of their POV.

    Before my mission I had no desire to go to BYU, but after my mission I felt entirely different about it. For other kids it's just the opposite. I don't see why it's a big deal to be honest.

  • Unreconstructed Reb Chantilly, VA
    June 9, 2014 8:39 p.m.

    "We're trying to wave politely to you all through the rear view mirror but you won't let go of our bumper because we won't let you in the back seat."

    Stop waving and wake up to the fact that your car is in reverse....

  • Proud Ute ,
    June 9, 2014 6:00 p.m.

    @Blue
    Again, without the BYU hate, your fan base doesn't have much to cheer for. You just can't quit us. lol

    We're trying to wave politely to you all through the rear view mirror but you won't let go of our bumper because we won't let you in the back seat.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    June 9, 2014 5:52 p.m.

    @ekute

    "A byu fan will never win a discussion about athletes being pressured to change their commitment while on their missions."

    But I'm not trying "to win a discussion" I'm just posting the facts and letting those expose utah "fans". It is what I do, effectively and constantly, and I did it again here. It's fun.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    June 9, 2014 5:43 p.m.

    @ ekute

    Good catch about this being a 4-school article. I'm very egocentric today I guess, plus I usually just go to "BYU" in the sports section. lol.
    Still though, the articles with the most comments tend to be BYU-related.

    Go Cougs, Utes, Aggies, TBirds!

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    June 9, 2014 5:10 p.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    I'll give you that a lot of the Utah BYU fans may loathe you, especially as of late. I've never been much of a Utah hater and absolutely loved it when y'all handed it to Alabama in the 2008 season. I don't personally know any BYU fans that hate the Utes actually. It's a phenomenon that's played out online when BYU articles are overrun with smack. I usually only go to the BYU articles since that's my team and I have to sift through all the usual narration from Ute fans.

    Again, without the BYU hate, your fan base doesn't have much to cheer for. You just can't quit us. lol

    Go Cougs.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 9, 2014 4:43 p.m.

    BlueNtheFace:

    "It comes from the same inferiority complex that's demonstrated by all of you Y-haters on these BYU articles. 80% of Ute fan pride is based on BYU hate."

    And 100% of THOSE sorts of comments are based off of no real facts whatsoever, but rather frantic emotion. I'll bet a lot of those deep loathing, frantic and emotional banter coming from you Y fans are based on deep loathing for the U, and a terrible inferiority complex. That sort of thing comes with the territory when your big brother twice busted the BCS, then got the very invitation you all had been pretending was coming your way for the past 30+ yrs.

  • xam Provo, UT
    June 9, 2014 4:12 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    So it's okay for kids to change their mind and transfer to BYU (Josh Sharp, Riley Nelson), but if a kid changes his mind and transfers out of BYU (Jake Murphy) then BYU somehow got shafted. Please explain the difference.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 9, 2014 1:10 p.m.

    Depth and competition is a good think; especially at the QB position.

    @Navalvet

    Thanks for setting the record straight; not that I ever put any stock into a certain individuals post.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2014 12:58 p.m.

    BlueNtheFace,
    This is a Utah, USU and SUU article. lol.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    June 9, 2014 12:42 p.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    When trying to sway Harvey from decomitting from Utah, Kwitt got a little frantic and emotional himself: "Unga said Whittingham told him that the Cougars would switch him to linebacker and that he would regret his decision. Unga added that BYU's coaches supported him regardless of where he opted to play, which solidified his choice to stay in Provo." -Deseret News, Nov. 22 2007

    That's one from the top of my head. Other BYU players have said that the Honor Code is used as a UofU scare tactic. It comes from the same inferiority complex that's demonstrated by all of you Y-haters on these BYU articles. 80% of Ute fan pride is based on BYU hate.

    Now that's emotional.

    Go Cougars!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2014 12:33 p.m.

    Duckhunter,
    A byu fan will never win a discussion about athletes being pressured to change their commitment while on their missions.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    June 9, 2014 12:05 p.m.

    @ekute

    "Administrators put a lot of pressure on college coaches to recruit game changing athletes...Roger Reid."

    What does that have to do with kids tranfering after their missions unless you are insinuating that the university of utah is pressuring their coaches to recruit missionaries that already committed to other schools?

    I don't recall Roger Reid having ever done that, can you give us an example of when he did?

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    June 9, 2014 12:02 p.m.

    @braxton

    So let me get this straight, you think that because athletes want to transfer to BYU after their missions it is somehow BYU's fault? And you think BYU is making it difficult for other schools to recruit Mormons how? What is it BYU does that makes it "difficult"?

    How about you provide us with support for that claim?

    Also do you really think other schools make it hard for kids that want to transfer or walk on at their schools but BYU alone makes those things "easy"?

    Really that was one of the more senseless posts I have ever read on here.

    I think your bitterness stems from the fact so many kids that have gone on missions do want to transfer to BYU when they return. This is generally because they have changed as an individual while they were gone and if I had my guess most of them probably think it is the best place for them to find a wife more than any other factor but many probably want the BYU lifestyle as well. Nothing improper on BYU's part there, it is just desirable for those kids.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 9, 2014 12:01 p.m.

    BlueNtheFace:

    "I'm not sure there is a program out there that uses negative recruiting tactics as extensive as Utah does when it talks to a BYU/Utah recruit. Kwitt is a specialist."

    Such as...? Can you back that up, or where you just saying whatever "felt good" to say? Because that would have been the "frantic and emotional" response. Let's see some facts.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 9, 2014 11:58 a.m.

    Duckhunter:

    "Of course the murphies admitted when they said in an interview in this very paper that dale picked jake up from the airport and drove him straight up to the university of utah to meet with kyle whittingham."

    That sounded made up. So I checked.

    That Doug Robinson article you were referencing ultimately said, "Because the Utes had not recruited Jake, they were able to offer him a scholarship in the fall. Upon returning from his mission, Jake, accompanied by his father, drove straight to a Ute practice session to observe, and that was that."

    [re: "Doug Robinson: Utah turns out to be the right fit for Jake Murphy", Saturday, Aug. 20 2011]

    Nowhere in that article did it state that they drove straight to the U "from the airport", and nowhere in that article did it state that the met immediately with Kyle Whittingham. And furthermore, it was very specific when it said, "Because the Utes had NOT recruited Jake..." [emphasis mine].

    Yep. I was right. You made it up. How frantic and emotional of you.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    June 9, 2014 11:45 a.m.

    Duckhunter, I believe Dale Murphy told his son to go to Utah because BYU didn't have anyone to throw the ball to him. A gritty defensive back and a running back coming next posing as quarterbacks.

  • Braxton ogden, ut
    June 9, 2014 11:31 a.m.

    Hey Dick. I would love you to investigate and do an article to educate the readers how BYU is making it difficult for mormon athletes to be recruited because of the transfer issue. Coaches across the country won't recruit Mormons for fear that they will put all their efforts and money recruiting a mormon then have them want to go to BYU after the mission. BYU makes the walk on and transfer so easy and some coaches at BYU find grey areas to contact the missionaries. a coach at ASU, who is also Mormon has stated he won't recruit anyone BYU show an interest in for this very reason. How about an article on this subject.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2014 11:10 a.m.

    BlueNtheFace,
    My comment has nothing to do with negative Utah/byu recruiting but can you cite examples to backup your comment?

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    June 9, 2014 10:54 a.m.

    @ ekute

    Reid didn't last too long after trying that desperate strategy. I'm not sure there is a program out there that uses negative recruiting tactics as extensive as Utah does when it talks to a BYU/Utah recruit. Kwitt is a specialist. Don't throw stones, sir.

    Go Cougs!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2014 10:34 a.m.

    Duckhunter,
    Administrators put a lot of pressure on college coaches to recruit game changing athletes...Roger Reid.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    June 9, 2014 10:17 a.m.

    @ JD

    Completely false about Riley. Everyone in his family and his Logan High coaching staff knew that he was going to go to BYU post-mission. I heard it from Coach Anderson days after he left. No one at BYU recruited that missionary. His dad was the facilitator.

    @ evansrichdm

    Football wasn't the only reason Ammon chose to go to BYU, though a big part. He gave it his best to beat out Taysom but fell short --> Plan B. Riley N. saw something that attracted him to BYU as well.

    Go Cougs!

  • ExecutorIoh West Jordan, UT
    June 9, 2014 9:20 a.m.

    I know BYU has a great online program, but it feels weird to have kids that are enrolled at other universities taking online classes from BYU for graduation credit, especially athletes. This isn't a small problem, I understand a lot of people are doing it. It has the potential to be a conflict of interest. While I have nothing against educating youth, something needs to be done if you enrolled somewhere else to limit BYU's online classes to non-credit only.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    June 9, 2014 9:15 a.m.

    @jd

    Great point. When the university of utah was busy recruiting jake murphy while he was on his mission it was obvious something needed to be changed. Of course the murphies admitted when they said in an interview in this very paper that dale picked jake up from the airport and drove him straight up to the university of utah to meet with kyle whittingham who was waiting for him there.

    What an incredible admission of guilt and aknowledgment of hwo the univeristy of utah works.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    June 9, 2014 8:47 a.m.

    I think time will tell how these QBs will pan out. If I felt like I had enough talent to play at the next level (which I can't even imagine what that would be like), I don't think it would benefit me sitting behind a starter. I too would transfer. I look at BYU and Utah and how many QBs they have and I don't think I'd stick around unless I had a serious chance and they were developing me.

    Go UTES!!

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    June 8, 2014 6:30 p.m.

    Players should be able to transfer without penalty.

    Coaches move on without penalty.

    Players should be able to do the same.

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    June 8, 2014 4:36 p.m.

    The NCAA had to create a by-law because a certain team was contacting athletes while they were on their missions and not allowing other schools to contact them. So I don't think we can really include one of the QB's listed in the article, he really didn't transfer, he was recruited, oh the life of Riley!

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    June 8, 2014 11:24 a.m.

    Evansrichdm

    Not sure about the "great talent" thing with Heaps. He performed even worse at Kansas than he did at BYU. I think he was overhyped beyond belief and his talent never came close to his hype.

  • Stang08 Southern, UT
    June 7, 2014 9:03 p.m.

    I've said it before, I can't wait to have Ammon back in Thunderbird red. Why he ever transferred to BYU is beyond me. There is no way he was going to start there. Not with all the QB's they always have coming in. Now he'll most likely start and help us get to more playoff games. Looking forward to a great year in Cedar.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    June 7, 2014 8:52 p.m.

    Dick... see if you like this idea. The self-proclaim insiders-only club Power 5 Conferences should keep all of the transfer rules, but every student athlete in these Power 5 group can transfer to the lesser schools and NOT have to sit out.

  • evansrichdm west jordan , UT
    June 7, 2014 5:40 p.m.

    BYU also benefited from Jake Heaps transferring out of BYU. Talk about great talent no work ethic and you get nothing. Glad he transferred and it seems he may transfer again to a MW team.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    June 7, 2014 5:31 p.m.

    I hope the Utes got a viable QB in either the Wyoming or Oklahoma kid. They really need someone who isn't a turnover machine to handle the ball.

    There seems to be a lot more of the graduate transfer types these days. Does anyone know how long ago the rule was made? I wish the article had said something about that since it just feels so recent.

    BYU really stocked up on quality receivers this year. I can't wait till the season starts.