The shoe's on the other foot now. Head law enforcement guy is on the
receiving end of a search warrant. How many search warrants has he
signed and never even worried about what will happen?Kinda funny to
hear Mark Shurtleff complaining about people coming into his house and looking
at his papers as "Dirty Harry types".He expressed no
sympathy when police armed with automatic weapons and assault vehicles broke
down the doors of the FLDS families and their temple in Texas and went through
every inch of their homes, took their computers, diaries, pictures, documents,
and dragged their kids away from their mothers and put them on buses, possibly
never to be seen by their parents again... Now THAT's Dirty Harry type
"Cry me a River!". Shurtleff is claiming "Dirty harry tactics",
as I watched the news report of the search I never saw anything that would back
his claim. Yes the search was secretive but that was done to protect the
Shurtleff's. He is claiming his innocence and says those who reported him
are liars and criminals. Funny thing is at one time those people were not
criminals. They were caught with their hand in the cookie jar. He s right where
they were before convictions. Shurtleff may or may not be convicted. At the very
least he has questionable ethics as seen with his associations. That in an of
it's self violated the Law Enforcement Ethic. If he committed a crime I
hope they throw the book at him and make an example of him.
@ LiaLia-- THAT was hilarious! When I got the to the "A-Team
van" portion I was literally in pain from laughing! That made my day!
me thinks he doth protest too much
"A man has got to know his limitations..."
When he was AG, he had no problem with the sort of searches he describes. Why
does he think an exception should be made for his own case?
When he ran for office he was going to be "tough on crime" and support
one hundred percent local "law enforcement". Things change when shoe is
on other foot.
A search warrent in an obviously no danger house. Keep the guns in the
holsters. Cops now days are having some real problems with telling the
difference between an actual violent offender and someone who would cooperate
fully with them, if they would just use common sense. Shurtleff is
in deep doo doo.
So at least have the courage to serve your warrant when the man's in
town.And don't bring your guns in and terrorize a 17-year old
girl.And don't give us this garbage that was on KSL news last
night about "you never know what's behind that door" when you know
you are going into the home of a family man and and a former public servant in a
suburban neighborhood - give me a break. Use some common sense.And,
if you really have the goods on Mr. Shurtleff, why are you still
"investigating" months and even years afterward?Is it
justify yourselves? Is it to keep the paychecks coming? And after
the ninth investigation turns up no convictions, and all the money, time, and
effort is completely wasted, then the principles who were accused are left
asking, like a famous Washington official from years ago who was finally
exonerated after a long vivisection such as this, "Ok, now how do I get my
good name back?"
'Dirty Harry' is a GOP stooge having conversations with furniture
these days. Anyway, surely Mr. Shurtleff has no issue with 'justice'
and 'law and order' does he? Or is he some sort of socialist?
"Go ahead, make my day."
Let me preface this by saying that I am not a real big fan of Mark Shurtleff,
but I will not go into that. I nor anyone else here is in possession of the
facts of what happened. But I completely agree with the sentiment expressed by
many that we need to demilitarize local, state, and especially federal law
enforcement. There is a place for SWAT teams and SWAT tactics but not in the
homes of non-violent, innocent until proven guilty, free citizens of this
country (not to mention their children).What we really need are more
"officer friendlies" and less "robocops".
A little over the top if that is what actually went down. really, all they
needed were the computers.
Ok, look at the picture published above the story. Is this a picture of the
agents involved in the raid or a bunch of neighbors in the driveway trying to
find out what was going on? No guns. Now body armor. No lasers. If they were
supposed to be storm troopers someone miscast this movie.
Why is it I just can't believe this guy? Why do I read this and think that
his is over exaggerating things to an extreme degree?
I sure that if he were a democrat, this would not have gone this way. The
purpose is to embarrass him and his family to the neighbors and to the world.
He would not have fled. White collar crimes ought to be handled a
little differently...he is not a wanted criminal, did not commit a physical
crime against anyone; and is not guilty of anything, yet. No danger
to anyone, no previous instances of violence. He is a respected former AG and a
lawyer and knew that his home might be searched...so he's going to wait
until they knock down the door to flush his paperwork down the toilet? These
are really Gestapo tactics. Shameful.
How many law enforcement agents does it take to harass two teenage children?
They conducted the search when they knew that the parents were not home? I count eleven in the photo with at least two more in the car.What a waste of taxpayer money.
I agree with fitness freak that we probably should take what the kids with a
grain of salt, BUT I also believe that most anything that a politician says
should also be taken with a grain of salt. And tums.
Not so fun when the shoe is on the other foot. I probably agree with Shurtleff
that this was unacceptable behavior, but then again, our police force has become
militarized and every search warrant is executed as if a raid in Iraq.
Unfortunately, this is SOP for our police today. Probably 90% of the raids the
police go on, could be done without so much force. Hard to feel to sympathetic
when he condoned these actions as a AG.
If the drawn guns allegation is true, and as DPS said "Agents...didn't
treat the search warrants differently than they would in any other case."
then we really need to change that.While a massive show of force and
intimidation tactics may be appropriate on a no-knock drug raid suspected
terrorists, or gang members or other potentially violent criminals, it is
totally unjustified for non-violent white collar criminal cases. Not only it is
unjustified, it is outrageous, and should be illegal.Nearly every
police agency in the country has become overly militarized, equipped with
firepower equivalent to armies, and trained in jack-booted thug tactics worthy
of the Gestapo, not criminal law enforcement in a peaceful country.Cases like this, where there are highly partisan politicians (Sim Gill)
involved crank up the "raid" teams and tactics for maximum visual effect
for the TV news, and to send a subtle message to all opponents. At the federal
level, it is even worse and more abused, even by obscure agencies with SWAT
teams the are itching to justify.Demilitarize the cops for routine
search warrants.And, provide a legal route to compensation for
Wa-wa!Why haven't the John's been charged yet? I am
cynical enough to think that the "good ol' boys" in the legislature
haven't covered their butts enough.IF anything comes of this,
it will be interesting to see how far it reaches.
Not a fan of the former Attorney General. Yet, I wouldn't doubt at all
that cops came with guns drawn. I'm sure they went home satisfied and
laughing about scaring the hell out of a teenager. Search Warrants don't
demand that you turn into storm troopers. A police officer should be wary
because you don't know what type of welcoming you are going to get but
pulling weapons should ONLY be done when a threat is imminant. But in this
country there is no recourse. What are you going to do? File a complaint,
laughable. To what end. We laugh and say well you did it too and in the
meantime our freedoms erode and our expectations for police professionalism
disappears when it isn't us that just got trashed.
Re Laura BilingtonYou have your opinion, for thousands of years
people differed from what you believe. This included the Mormon pioneers and
all others of their time. Who is wrong? .. who is right? Is there an an
authoritive arbitor?What about nature, what does nature
'say'? At puberty when the outer body changes for male and female,
both sexes are attracted to each other, you can interpret this to mean nothing,
or you can interpret this as natures way saying now is the time to begin coming
Though I question his innocence and that of Swallow - what could you possibly
hope to find at their homes after such a long period of time? Let's wait
a year and see if they keep something that might prove them guilty - aw cmon -
they are not even that stupid. If they kept it they would not keep it on their
own property - it is in a vault of a friend somewhere or buried in a secret
I really doubt that Shurtleff is telling the story as it happened. Being
previously the top Utah attorney, he well knows that they don't use such
tactics without reason. All he's trying to do is sway public opinion. I
guess he might be doing it, but not the direction he's expecting.
The cops were acting as if they were arresting a drug dealer or something. This
was only a search warrant in a white-collar crime case, for crying out loud!
Might encourage him to become a liberal who backs the Constitution and wants the
cops demilitarized. I am thinking every Attorney General and
District Attorney ought to go through a fully militarized no-knock raid, with no
warning whatsoever, during their first six months in office. Be good for them.
I find myself very unsympathetic towards Shurtleff. He has been standoffish, and
has not been forthcoming in the face of the investigations he finds himself
mired in. Sorry, but I thought he was here to serve the people of Utah, not
himself. While he may well end up cleared, being and dealing with people
of questionable ethics--a LOT, having a 'fixer'- for some reason, and
being even remotely associated with any perceived impropriety is no place for an
Attorney General.He brought all of this upon himself, and the story he
delivers is not commensurate with a warrant being served on a white collar
crime. He has come to reaping the consequences of his ill-born doings, and
for him to try and elicit sympathy makes him appear even more guilty.In
today's day and age one must do the utmost to separate himself from any
perceived wrong-doing, and he did none of that.Sorry they messed up your
house Mark, but you asked for it.
Let's see now, the former AG says "someone will pay for this when I am
exonerated" and the head of the State committee that investigated the mess
and seen the evidence says: "I won't be surprised at all if he is
indicted." Two honorable Republicans equally firm but opposite in their
positions...which to believe?? I wouldn't pretend at this point
to believe that there will be a conviction in the matter, but I would love to
see one or both at least made to do the perp walk.
It is interesting to contemplate that the treatment he is receiving is what he
was dealing out as an attorney, now he is on the other side of the fence. hard
to muster too much sympathy.
I guess the only viable options are you "hide yo kids, hide yo
wives."Only way to avoid lasers.
"I think if they’ll do that to me, with my entire life and career in
service to law enforcement and public safety, they'll do it to
anybody," You're correct Primarily due to the
fact you've allowed such tactics upon other folks during your AG tenure.
@cjb writes, "what modern society considers to be under age girls."Um, cjb, we don't just "consider" them underage. They
ARE underage."The fact that we have changed our views
doesn't change the morality of the situation."Yes it does.
Please remember that the exposure of an ankle was "immoral" 150 years
ago. And in Iran, it is today.
We just listened to the show at lunch, and I must say, had I believed the gist
of Shurtleff's statements, Sandy would have had Blackhawk Choppers with
masked agents rappelling down from them onto his roof. Stun grenades would have
been lobbed through windows, and the big black "A-Team" van would have
come around the corner on two wheels, screeched to a halt in his driveway,
sideways, and the boys would have summersaulted out the side door onto his lawn
and run up the walk and did flying kicks to bring down the door.I
don't believe that happened.
If the account sited by Mr Shurtleff's daughter is in any way true, we
should all be disgusted by such heavy handed behavior. There is no need for
this, either charge the man or get off his porch!
So let my get this straight Mark. When it's someone else, and you are the
AG, these tactics are acceptable law enforcement techniques. If you aren't
the AG and the subject of a criminal investigation, then they are gestapo
tactics. Mark, your hypocrisy is showing.
Mark is an emotional guy, especially when it comes to his kids. I would frankly
be surprised if they brought in the SWAT team to do a search in a case like
this, however. I would hope that even those who are convinced Mark is guilty
would not approve of agents pointing guns at kids for no reason. I strongly
believe Mark is ill-informed.
I wonder if karma has anything to do with this. Mr. Shurtleff really went after
the FLDS for their marrying what modern society considers to be under age
girls.While no one condones forcing a woman of any age to get
married to a man she doesn't want to marry, but our law now which Mr.
Shurtleff enthusiastically enforced would throw a 24 year old in prison for life
for consentually marrying a 15 year old girl calling it rape. Let's not
forget that throughout all of history this was not uncommon. The fact that we
have changed our views doesn't change the morality of the situation. You
can not hide behind the law while doing an immoral act and be immmune from
justice of a higher court.
Yea, he's the victim.
Google what Shurtleff is up to now. Priceless is the FG Xpress YouTUBE video
where he endorses the safety of a product based upon his qualifications as an
AG.Sad. (Oh and nice BYU hat the marketer is wearing...wolf).
Getting searched by the cops isn't so cool when you're the target of
the investigation, is it Mark?I checked the cupboard where I keep my
empathy. It's empty.
@lost in DC"But before we get too far, innocent until proven
guilty."You mean like Bowe Bergdahl?
The article says Shurtleff is out of town (in D.C.), so he apparentally is
getting the "tough guy" images from his kids.I learned a
long time ago to take what my kids tell me with a grain of salt.Kids
can be known to stretch the truth - just a little.That said, I
can't imagine WHAT evidence is available today that WASN'T available a
year ago. He should either be charged with.......something..... or not.
If they acted inappropriately he should know the proper avenues to seek redress.
If they didn't and he doesn't seek redress, we will know this is just
a smokescreen.But before we get too far, innocent until proven
Wow. He sent his 'tough guy" Lawson out to make people's lives
miserable. His B of A thing put lots of families on the street. Hard
to feel sorry for a man who doesn't consider his family while involved in
questionable activity. And those serving warrants may bust into a drug factory
with guns blazin', but it's hard to believe him on this. Why
should anyone believe him now? After all we've seen and heard from the