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Comments about ‘Sen. Orrin Hatch says gay marriage inevitable but religious rights being lost’

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Published: Wednesday, May 28 2014 5:50 p.m. MDT

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Bob K
Davis, CA

higv
Dietrich, ID
"Gay people ask for right that does not exist. People vote to keep it like it has been and they sue, when Governer and AG fight for voters rights get told how much it costs and waste of time. Who is the bully there."

--- The bullies are the Gov, the AG, and the people who force them to waste time and money, look foolish, make Utah look backward, and hurt others.

"Gay people are not denied right to live or work where they want and are protected in matters of law."

--- Not true in Idaho, not true in Utah, not true in about 30 more States.

Frozen Fractals
Salt Lake City, UT

@higv
"Hopefully an eventual constitutional amendment will be here to keep marriage between one man and one woman. "

Not to be a downer, but that's never going to happen at this point. There's too much support among young-people and in at least a third of the states that any attempt to do so would fall way short.

" Gay people are not denied right to live or work where they want and are protected in matters of law"

Neither Utah, nor the nation as a whole, have laws that prevent gay people from being fired just because they're gay.

@Icarus
" Apparently gays can refuse business to customers they disagree with"

How do you figure? Like anyone else they can't discriminate based on race, gender, religion, ethnicity, age, disability, or in some states sexual orientation.

BYUalum
South Jordan, UT

Lots of crazy opinions given. I go back to the beginning in the Garden when Adam, a man, was given Eve, a woman. Ever since then male and female propagated the race and millions and millions of children have been born of a father AND a mother. That will never change.

In family history, one can trace his heritage back through countless years through a father AND a mother. That part will never change. People may choose other co-habitation, but the fact is God mandated it so that a baby always has and always will have a father and a mother.

I strongly believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. Anything different is not a marriage but just living together. Just because man wants to change God's law does not mean that God will change his law for the convenience of some people who live a different set of standards. Give them the free agency to choose for themselves, but don't impose that standard on the rest of us who believe differently!

Informed Voter
South Jordan, UT

What are the odds Hatch will stop voting to confirm every leftist federal judge that is nominated? Absolutely zero.

edgeoftheabyss
OC, CA

Gay marriage is the Trojan horse. Come to California to see the unfettered agenda in full swing. Homosexual indoctrination of school children in officially sanctioned state-mandated textbooks. It's the law of the land. Choose your restroom based on your perceived gender of the moment. It's in the law of the land. Non-profits that don't embrace the gay agenda lose tax-exempt funding. Pending in legislature (SB323). Harvey Milk Day, recognized by the state's government as "a day of special significance for public schools." Etc., etc.

Connect the dots and chart the trajectory. Far more is at play here than just a ring on a finger.

Shelama
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Hatch is certainly correct about same-sex marriage being inevitable. As it should be.

As far as religious liberty being lost, the reality is more that long-standing Christian privilege and entitlement is being lost. Also as it should be. Whose fault is that? If Bronze- and Iron-Age Biblical myth can't compete in the modern world of ideas, whose fault is that?

If same-sex marriage is an affront to God we should all be content to let God worry about it and the consequences. I know I am.

In the end, except for gay couples who wish to marry and their friends and families, this is a huge nothing that we're wasting a lot of time, money and angst over. Traditional marriage is not threatened (everybody supports it) and to the degree that marriage and family are the foundation of society same-sex marriage will only add to and strengthen it.

The only hope for humankind is in cooperation, not in religion and not in confusing religion with true morality. If something doesn't have a negative secular consequence it's not even a moral issue. A religious issue, perhaps, but not a moral issue.

donn
layton, UT

RE: Cjb “I keep hearing religious rights are being eroded. Where? How? If you believe this please post how this is so. I'm very curious.” OK,

The Supreme Court's 1972 decision in Roe versus Wade. The Christian conservatives are opposed to abortion, pornography, bestiality, polygamy.

RE: LDS Liberal WWJD? He tells us what to do.

“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male(Adam) and female(Eve), and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? (Mt 19:4-6)

Baker Boy
Westminster, CA

BYUalum states that anything different from a man and woman in a marriage is just living together. But BYUalum doesn't get to define marriage. Marriage is defined by the laws of the states/country. Several states have already defined same sex marriage as just that - marriage.

I believe Orrin Hatch is right in that same sex marriage is about to become the law of the land.

The aspect of it all that troubles me is that those opposed to same sex marriage will lose nothing as a result of two people of the same gender tying the knot. Nothing.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Icarus "One religious right that is gone in New Mexico is wedding services companies are forced to serve anyone, no matter how personally objectionable the owner may find same-sex "marriage". Apparently gays can refuse business to customers they disagree with but religious people are not given the same latitude." Your last statement is completely false. Can you document cases where gay owned businesses have refused services to "straight" customers?

One of the good things about the market is that if a customer's got the ability to demand a service, it doesn't make a dang bit of difference if you like him/her or personally despise him. In this sense the market is a "clean" mechanism. As a socialist, I shouldn't have to point this out to right wingers.

If a gay or lesbian couple wants to buy services and they are not creating a public nuisance, they should be able to buy those services free and clear. I simply don't get why this concepts confuses conservatives.

As If!
Layton, UT

Unfortunately, I agree with Senator Hatch. What really bothers me is the fact that people believe they can tell God the rules. If you don't believe in God and the Bible, that is different, but you can't have it both ways. I cannot believe that gay marriage will ever be right as I believe God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and he declares it to be a sin. (Any sexual acts which should only be between a man and a woman.) Sometimes, I think that people who want gay marriage recognized as legal think that they can change my beliefs just by passing some laws. So not happening.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Bob K "Actually, our legal system is based on English Common Law, partly evolved from Roman law."

Exactly, the Constitution enacted the English Common Law for our use.

Willem
Los Angeles, CA

At last Sen.Hatch says something that makes sense.

IDSpud
Eagle, ID

Very interesting trend thus far in the DN comments. Almost unanimous in support of same sex marriage. Tolerance is being plied in some very subtle ways. The LDS General Authorities have warned about the times ahead. There may not currently be outright religious rights that have been eroded or trampled because of this issue, but there most certainly will (overt or otherwise) be as time moves forward. This is the flash point. The Family, A Proclamation to the World is pretty clear regarding what the LDS believe to be God's position on the family unit. I'm all for 2 people, regardless of sexual orientation, being able to live together, and to have all the societal benefits that supports such a partnership; but that same-sex partnership shouldn't then be allowed to reconstitute/redefine the natural family structure. Religious organizations will certainly face discrimination and persecution for standing firm in their position that marriage is between a man and a woman, and the natural (God sanctioned)formation of a family unit that follows. Tolerance towards religion and its adherents is clearly eroding.

Maudine
SLC, UT

I keep reading these stories that claim religious freedoms are being lost, but as I read them and see what the claims of loss are, it is not religious freedom being lost, but religious power. And the loss is not coming from external sources, but from internal sources.

If your religion is losing its power to control its adherents, that indicates a problem with your religion, not a problem with those who adhere to a different religion.

Perhaps if religions worried about putting their own houses in order instead of trying to order that over which they have no control they would be able to find some sense of power?

koseighty
The Shire, UT

@donn
"The Supreme Court's 1972 decision in Roe versus Wade. The Christian conservatives are opposed to abortion, pornography, bestiality, polygamy."

And people are still free to believe those things are wrong. Just as they will remain free to think same sex marriage is wrong, even after it becomes legal throughout the U.S. and most of the world.

No one is asking you to change your beliefs. It's just that your beliefs cannot, without sound secular reasons, be the basis of law. No one will force you into a homosexual marriage against your will. Just as no one will force you to have an abortion against your will. Your freedom to believe as you wish and act accordingly remains intact.

The idea that traditional marriage is under attack is ludicrous. Traditional marriages, such as my own, will not change in the least. The melodramatic rhetoric is getting old. And the nation is starting to see through it.

xert
Santa Monica, CA

If someone, three years ago, would have told me that Sen. Hatch would say that gay marriage is going to happen and that we should just accept it, I would have said you were talking about a different Sen. Hatch. My my my--crawfish pie! How the world has changed. I thank this man who I have so often opposed, for showing common sense. In three more years I would like him to admit that all opposition has proven to be defeated and that (as many have pointed out on this thread) no religious liberties have been violated or disrespected.

RG
Buena Vista, VA

to LDS Liberal: "He was crucified himself for not condemning and stoning the sinners."

No, by the time of Jesus they were not stoning people anymore. The Jews could not execute without permission of the Romans anyway. Rather, Jesus was crucified because he called himself the Son of God, and because he exposed the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders.

"But he sure threw out those money-changing capitalists at the Temple!"
Yes, he did. He did not condemn capitalism, however, but rather the desecration of the temple. There's a right and wrong place for money changing/selling/profit making.

TimBehrend
Auckland NZ, 00

"We're in danger of losing our religious freedom and our rights," says Hatch. He continues:

--People are moving away from going to church on Sundays.
People are not losing their right to do with Sundays whatever they please, especially with the fading of blue laws that supported the Christian practice of 'keeping holy the Lord's day'. Poor attendance at church is not the result of the state's abridgement of religious freedom, Senator.

--People are starting to find fault with religions and their beliefs," he said.
People have been finding fault with religions and their beliefs since time immemorial. The US Constitution protects the freedom of its citizens to do so. Why does the Senator consider this good example of American freedoms to be evidence of the state infringing an individual's right to practice religion freely? The Hatch quoted and presented in this article seems to be quite ignorant.

TimBehrend
Auckland NZ, 00

@BYUalum: "In family history, one can trace his heritage back through countless years through a father AND a mother."

You don't seem to have done much family history, BYUalum. Information available about our female ancestors is almost non-existent because in European and settler North American cultures female identity was usually extinguished with the absorption of a female into a male line.

Wilf 55
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

"People are moving away from going to church on Sundays", Hatch said. And whose fault would that be? New generations expect religion to be tolerant and caring, welcoming to all.

As to "People are starting to find fault with religions and their beliefs", such criticism is already found among many philosophers in Antiquity. All through the Middle Ages and Modern Times wise people have criticized the bigotry, the condemnations, and the monopolies of churches that want to impose their peculiar rules on others. Religion and beliefs can be valuable as long as they respect their boundaries, but few churches are able to draw the line.

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