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Comments about ‘Join the discussion: Is there a war on religion?’

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Published: Thursday, May 29 2014 7:00 a.m. MDT

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Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Although Obama has openly been hostile towards religion, except Islam, the real problem is with the people. People who have a profound love for God will worship God, knowing that He created this earth and all things on it. They will respect Him and His laws. They will change their lives to conform to His will.

When people worship other gods, self, money, jobs, celebrity, or anything else that detracts their attention from God, they will be ambivalent towards Deity. As history has shown, when people are wealthy, healthy, and in pursuit of activities that take them away from reverence to God, He stops blessing them with wealth, health and the ability to pursue things that would destroy their true happiness. In our parents or grandparents lifetime, we have seen that boom to bust cycle several times.

Slow learners learn from experience. The cure is to put God first, to care for each other willingly, without coercion, and to put away selfish desires.

Government is prohibited from restricting religion. It's time that people stopped restricting religion from their own lives.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

When the government forces people to fund contraception, abortion and sterilization, in violation of their deeply held religious convictions, you just lost your freedom of religion! If you like your religion, you can't keep it, period!

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

No. Wait which religion?
The war is religion on religion as it has nearly always been.

Religion may be losing it's grip on the public, but there's no war against it.
The mysteries no longer hold sway in young minds, eager for answers.

Thid Barker
Victor, ID

First article of faith of liberalism; Thou shalt have no other God before the Government! Therefore, all other religions must give way (except Islam of course-lest they be offended)!

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

IMO there's just as much a "war on religion"... as there is a "war on women", "war on the poor", "war on gays", "war on blacks", "war on Hispanics", "war on everything"...

No... there is no "war on religion". Same goes for the dozen or so things Democrats keep pretending the right is at war with (to insure they get these group's votes).

Pendergast
Salt Lake City, UT

re Happy Valley Heretic

"Religion may be losing it's grip on the public, but there's no war against it."

Agreed, but, don't tell that to the true believers... its even more incomprehensible than a talking bush that needs to be extinguished.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

Whether or not there is a “war on religion” is a matter of perspective, and hopefully some of these points will provide some much needed perspective.

It is important to realize that we do not respect people’s beliefs; rather we evaluate their reasons for believing what they do.

If two different doctors prescribe two different treatments for your cancer (say, chemotherapy and drinking Yak blood), naturally you will want to see some evidence supporting the efficacy of each approach before deciding on a treatment plan.

The same logic holds for every other area of our lives… except religion. Society gives religion an upfront respect that no other area of life is given.

Because many people today are no longer willing to offer such uncritical deference to religious ideas (but instead want real world evidence supporting religious positions), religious people are apt to see this loss of deference as a diminishment of their rights or even persecution.

It is neither. Rather, we are finally beginning to treat religious ideas the same as every other (i.e., consideration without our pre-frontal lobes shut off by awe and blind submission).

Hank Pym
SLC, UT

responding to Mike R from SJ

“Although Obama has openly been hostile towards religion, except Islam,…”

I guess capturing Saddam & killing Osama don’t count? Seriously, when?

"...As history has shown,... In our parents or grandparents lifetime, we have seen that boom to bust cycle several times. “

Whose history? I get it? God is calling the shots on Wall St & the Federal Reserve? Was Katrina also divine retribution for those who led ‘alternative’ lifestyles as well?

“Government is prohibited from restricting religion.”

Jefferson’s wall restricts ‘influence’ in both directions.

“It's time that people stopped restricting religion from their own lives.”

Or, people can put aside bronze age hokum, join the 21st century, & start acting like rational individuals.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"most Americans believe claiming church attendance is a positive thing"

To Funny. So, it did not say that they believe "church attendance" is a positive thing.
Just that "Claiming church attendance" is.

Possibly because those who don't go to church are judged by those that do.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Very well said Tyler D.
...and might I ad that, I was always told that respect is earned.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Religion perceives a "war on religion" because it appears religion will not always have the final say on policy. Otherwise, freedom of religion is absolutely intact.

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Mountanman: "When the government forces people to fund contraception, abortion and sterilization, in violation of their deeply held religious convictions, you just lost your freedom of religion!"

When the government forces people to fund weapons of mass destruction and wars in violation of their deeply held religious convictions (i.e. Quakers through federal taxation), you just lost your freedom of religion!

You may rebut that tax dollars are fungible and pooled with other funds and no tax dollar paid by a Quaker can be traced to a weapon. The same can be said for Hobby Lobby's insurance premiums. No premium dollar can be traced to a particular contraceptive purchase.

Contrast these very indirect connections between religious faith and government practice with a very direct interference in religion by the government: A few weeks ago this paper reported on United Church of Christ clergy in North Carolina facing jail time for performing same sex marriages. Is there a clearer form of the state infringing on religious beliefs than this?

Tyler D is correct. The current fuss is less about a war on religion than religion losing its hegemony in society. No one cedes power easily or quietly.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Mountanman said: "If you like your religion, you can't keep it, period!"

Keep it to yourself and those who agree with you, proselytize where there aren't "no solicitation" signs, but don't force it on others (thru laws) who don't believe as you.
Tell you what, You don't pray in my school, and I won't think in your church.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

No. Not here, anyway. Religion may be losing it's monopoly on the public soapbox to a larger world, but that's how it should be. It has a whole sleeve full of victim cards to play as this unfolds, but in the end it's going to have to justify it's own relevance instead of simply taking it by force. That's how things are here, mind you, and not everywhere. In many parts of the world, there isn't enough of a war on religion. The parties of 'god' are still causing incredible harm in many of the worlds' hotspots, and oppressing millions. With each successive generation, there is pushback on this, but we have a way to go.

Eliyahu
Pleasant Grove, UT

Those who keep trying to convince themselves that their religion is persecuted because the government won't give it the equivalent of "most favored nation" status are only fooling themselves. If you want to see what persecution is, try giving away bibles in North Korea. Try building a synagogue in Saudi Arabia. Go to Afghanistan as a missionary. In fact, please tell me of one single country with more overall religious freedom than the US. The only "right" that religious bodies are losing is the ability to control non-members through laws supporting the doctrines and beliefs of those bodies. Frankly, if a church needs the power of the State to enforce its beliefs, it's not a very good religion.

Spangs
Salt Lake City, UT

If there isn't a war on religion, maybe there should be. Religion is the root cause of most of history's war, murder, pain and suffering. All in the name of some god. Of course,the non-religious can also be bloodthirsty. Maoists and Marxists of the 40's and 50's come to mind. But when have you ever heard of an agnostic humanist ever murdering someone? That's right, you haven't.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

IMO The only way it would be considered a "war on religion" would be... IF new laws prevent you from living the covenants you have with your God. There are a few laws where people are concerned that this is the case, but at least we are working on these laws, and TRYING to make them more tolerant of people with covenants they need to keep.

If the Government outright prevents you from living your religion (as it has in some leftist dominated countries in the past)... then there is a problem. We're not there, yet.

It's not an all out "war on religion"... but I get the feeling it WOULD be... IF some of the posters here could have it their way.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Believing yourself to be persecuted, regardless of any evidence, is a central theme of all authoritarian religions.

The folks screaming the loudest about a "war on religion" are also the people most adamantly opposed to respecting other people's freedom to practice their own religions, or not adhere to any religion at all.

To religious conservatives, the growing realization that they have nothing useful to contribute to real-world problem solving feels like persecution.

You're not being persecuted. You're only being told that you have to treat people fairly, the same as everyone else.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

"Although Obama has openly been hostile towards religion, except Islam, the real problem is with the people."

One of the most bizarre and odd statements of the year. Talk about believe the stuff you have made up in your own mind. If your alluding to ACA, it impacts Muslims much more than even the most evangelical christian. And if you look at the people the Drone Wars has been targeted to... it is Muslim names that are on the RIP list - not Christians. Very delusional statement here Mike.... Your hate is overriding common sense here.

Back to topic though... the war on Religion is one that has been going on for thousands of years. From casting Christians to the lions, the Catholic/Protestant wars, to the Nazi's genocide war on Jews.... this has been a common thread throughout the worlds history.

No one today is being tar and feathered in this country. No one is being burned at the stake for being a heretic. People are not being forced from their homes because of their faith. To say we have it hard is it to make a mockery of the real sacrifices those who preceded us made.

Thid Barker
Hayden, ID

Lagomorph: Very poor analogy. Everyone is well served by the military, even conscientious objectors because it keeps them free to be objectors. Dictators do not allow conscientious objectors! Nothing is served by being forced to pay for birth control and abortions except extreme selfishness resulting in the termination of the life of an unborn human being!

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