"...if it turns out to be a good idea, other establishments would begin to
follow suit..."But they won't, and here's why: Greed
results in myopathy. That is, the Greedy will only see an equation
of lower wages with higher profits, whereas an authentically Christian outfit,
for example In-N-Out Burger, sees the Big Picture -- HIGHER wages, LOWER retail
prices, AND higher quality product, equals lots and lots of happy customers,
and, hence, lots of cash flow, and thus everyone wins. But, again,
in their myopathy, the Greedy are incapable of grasping such a paradox. Sorry, Mr. Anderson, but In-N-Out Burger, alone, proves your thesis
false.And Greed -- along with its accompanying sophistries, and
rationalizations -- is a major problem in our day, just as Jesus envisioned it
would be. "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel
to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom
of God." (Matt. 19:24)
It’s a nice theory but we really don’t have to wait to make the
comparison. And it would seem to be good business for all retail outlets to look
at the comparison between Walmart and Costco such as (according to Business
Week, NBC News and Glassdoor:Average Cashier SalaryWalmart:
$8.53 Costco: $15.60 Average Pay For Low-Level Managerial
PositionWalmart: $44,774 Costco: $53,956 Number Of
Employees Receiving Health Insurance CoverageWalmart: "more than
half" of employees Costco: 88% of employeesTurnover RateWalmart: 37%Costco: 24% Position On The Minimum WageWalmart:
Supported raising the federal minimum wage in 2006, but has remained mum in the
recent debate.Costco: Supports raising the federal minimum wage to over
$10-an-hour. CEO Craig Jelinek wrote a letter urging Congress to do so.]Percent Of Workforce That Is UnionizedWalmart: 0 Costco: 15
CEO Compensation (2012) million ($1.3 millionWalmart: $19.3
salary Costco: $4.9 million Most Recent Quarterly Year Over
Year EarningsWalmart: Up 1.1% Costco: Up 19% The last
item is most telling for other companies, or should be. And so, based on these
numbers, which one will you support?
You set up your experiment to fail. How about we look back at other raises in
minimum wage, and see if it drove up prices? You will find that Americans
supported the raise by still shopping in the stores that paid the new minimum
How about another experiment? The owner pays its employees more, keeps prices
the same, and takes a little less profit? E.g. Costco vs.
Sam's Club. Costco seems to be doing quite well, yet pays its employees
more than the competition. Go figure.
One the myths about the "free market" is that somehow if you just let
the market run free, competition will prevail to the benefit of everyone.
That's the theory and the values espoused by many conservatives.The reality is that businesses work to kill off the free market competition
through various strategies so that business can distort markets to work in their
favor. This is done via acquiring competitors (e.g., Comcast's
acquisition of Time-Warner), raising switching costs on consumers so that they
don't have freedom of choice (e.g., cell phone contracts that lock
customers to plans for two years), forcing fees on trapped customers trying to
switch (e.g., Rocky Mountain Power forcing its monopolized customers to pay $50
a year for the privilege of generating their own solar power), passing laws to
keep competition out (e.g., cab companies lobbying to reduce the number of taxis
in a community), etc.In sum, companies use "free market"
tools to eliminate the free market.When it comes to low skill labor,
we have powerful oligopolies (e.g., Walmart, McDonald's) forcing wages
down. Government policy is one mechanism to counter that anti-competitive
an OK comment, except one thing...."Fast Food" isn't
the only industry relying on minimum wage.MOST jobs in America are
now minimum wage, so the idea fails.
I wonder if the writer took note of the recent settlement between a large group
of engineers and their prominent employers: Intel, Adobe, Google, and Apple.
It seems these prestigious outfits were "wage fixing," having a
"gentlemen's agreement" to not hire each others engineers. These
outfits saved a bundle by settling out of court. But the big issue
is the matter of price fixing, or in this case wage fixing. The virtues of the
market are often touted in these blogs. But this was a case of a market not
really existing. The same is true of fast food - whose vendors have an
understanding as to what their respective employees should be paid. Wage fixing
goes on at the low end as well as the high end. The writer's
piece is fatuous and silly.
So the question for me is this: When you raise the minimum wage to $15/hour you
will get $15/hour workers. What will you do with the skil-less workers?
How about instead of adjusting the cost of the meal upwards, we adjust the
amount of the profits that go to the CEO downwards and use that to pay the
people who are actually doing the work of serving the customers their wages?
Interesting comments marxist. I worked at Marriott in the late 80's in
their Architecture and Construction Division and it was common knowledge that
the VP at Marriott in charge of A&C had an understanding with Disney that he
would be notified of any Marriott employees applying for jobs at Disney. He
would give them the OK and they would not move forward until they received that
OK.By the way, I think you last sentence is redundant, or contains
With all due respect to the previous commenters, this is not a good idea even in
theory. Even at a basic level it won't work. There is more to consumers
selecting a particular fast food franchise than just price. If a McDonalds in
location one charges 20 cents more for a Big Mac, mot consumers won't go
out of their way to patronize another one unless it is convenient to them. Just
this fact alone supports the idea that an increase in the minimum wage would
barely be noticed by consumers, and the increase in wages for the workers would
have tremendous impact in their lives, in terms of quality of life, job
satisfaction and ability to contribute more to the economy.
Has it ever occurred to you Wal-Mart bashers that if not for Wal-Mart poor
people could not afford goods they enjoy? There is a reason poor people
don't shop at Nordstrom!
@Thid BarkerVictor, IDHas it ever occurred to you Wal-Mart bashers
that if not for Wal-Mart poor people could not afford goods they enjoy? There is
a reason poor people don't shop at Nordstrom!8:04 a.m. May 27,
2014======= And by that same token, Has it ever
occurred to you anti-Communist, anti-Socilaist, Free Market 'Merkin
Wal-Mart supporters, that if not for places like WalMart, that the Communists in
Red China would still be a backwards, cow plowing, rice patty, 3rd world nation
would we would have no need to fear?Yes -- Ironic that YOU
right-wingers are the biggest supporters of Communism in the World.
The only way to get business to hire people at the proper wage is to compete
with them for employees. If the government would hire all unemployed workers at
a minimum wage, all business operations that needed employees would have to
follow. There's plenty of work to be done that ordinary people could do.
Doing so would end poverty, welfare, and the thousands of scams in
government and business that feed on poverty. It would cost less than the
present system.No need to do away with private enterprise
capitalism, just give them some real competition.
airnaut. So according to you, everyone who shops at Wal-Mart is a Communist? lol
Thid Barker said: "Has it ever occurred to you Wal-Mart bashers that if not
for Wal-Mart poor people could not afford goods they enjoy? There is a reason
poor people don't shop at Nordstrom!"They used to shop
somewhere before walmart. Lots and lots of places in fact, with products made in
places besides china.What better business plan than paying your
employees so little that, they'll come back and spend their food stamps
where they work, and hey the feds will even pay the medical benefits if they
cheat the system a little more, by not allowing any but a few work full time.Yes thid a shining example the free market.
Happy Valley. If you don't want to shop at Wal-Mart, don't! Problem
solved! No one is forced to work there or to shop there, its called freedom!
Eating fast food has become ridiculous! Two milk shakes for seven dollars! Two
hamburgers, fries and drinks - nearly twenty dollars! Good reason not to eat
This "experiment" has already been done, read the Card and Krueger case
study. They examined the fast food industry on the border of New Jersey and
Pennsylvania in 1992 when New Jersey increased it's minimum wage. Their
findings rebut every single talking point that comes from conservatives - in
fact, when New Jersey raised it's minimum wage, the fast food industry saw
less turnover, lower unemployment, and prices remained steady. This same case
study has since been replicated countless times with virtually the same results.
The Card and Krueger case study, along with the many others that
replicate it, took naturally occurring, real world minimum wage disparities and
found conservatives' claims regarding the minimum wage to be completely
unfounded. There is nothing more definitive than the real world proving
conservatives wrong over and over again.
How is it fair that Walmart's CEO just triple his pay while over half of
his employees are subsidized via food stamps? Why should I subsidize
Walmart because their CEO refuses to pay its workers a decent wage?To me, this is a great moral threat to our society than gay marriage or
abortion! CEOs using and abusing their employees and our system. Cheating us all
out of billions each year! It's a "light" version of
slavery. How can conservatives condone this?
Thid, you are using logical fallacies to undermine commenters who don't
agree with your position. No one said those who shop at WalMart are communists.
It was said that the rise of WalMart with its low wages supports China (a
communist nation). It was also stated that the the WalMart model is actually
more reliant on government welfare programs for its success, yet your response
is to tell Happy not to shop there. A substantive response would be more
useful, like the idea that higher wages would actually result in better
circumstances for Americans, and perhaps we would actually see more U.S. based
economic activity instead of all that money flowing overseas.
@Thid Barker"Has it ever occurred to you Wal-Mart bashers that if not
for Wal-Mart poor people could not afford goods they enjoy? "Has
it ever occurred to you that opposing the minimum wage increase harms poor
Thid BarkerVictor, IDHappy Valley. If you don't want to shop at
Wal-Mart, don't! Problem solved! No one is forced to work there or to shop
there, its called freedom!8:45 a.m. May 27, 2014========= Problem NOT solved -- I don't shop
there, BUTI'm still being forced to pay taxes for Food Stamps
and other subsides for the hard working employees of WalMart [the makers] who
are making the WalMart owners and Executives Billionaires, over and over again
[the takers]...and yes - you are suppporting Global Communism by
shopping there...How you can sleep at night is beyond me, and I'm on
No. It has to be, and can be, across the board.
OMMYou always support higher taxes. What is up with the resentment?
You are getting exactly what you want!Enjoy those warm fuzzy
feelings from helping all those Wal-mart employees. It might make you feel happy
for a change.
I for one have never shopped at Walmart and never will. It only encourages them.
Walmart is an insidious monopsony (look it up) that is driving our entire
economy into the abyss.
To "Baron Scarpia" the free market does not benefit everybody. It only
benefits those that want ot benefit from it. If I am lazy and don't want
to improve my job skills, I will never benefit from the free market system.However, if I take courses in Welding, I can get a job that pays more
than minimum wage and can allow me to support a family.Why do we
need government officials dictating what the minimum wage should be? As the
example of Costco has shown. Their business model is based on happy workers
make happy customers. Just because Costco likes it does not mean that the
government can or should force Sam's Club to do the same.When
the government raises the minimum wage, then those that were earning slightly
more than minimum will also want a raise, and in this case, the Costco Employees
will want more money also becasue they went from double minimum wage to just 50%
above minimum.To "airnaut" according to BLS minimum wage
jobs only account for 4.3% of all hourly paid jobs.
FreedomFighter41 says:"How can conservatives condone
this?"It's what Jesus would do; apparently.
@Copy CatMurray, UTOMMYou always support higher taxes.
What is up with the resentment? You are getting exactly what you want!Enjoy those warm fuzzy feelings from helping all those Wal-mart employees. It
might make you feel happy for a change.11:56 a.m. May 27, 2014========= I only support higher taxes on the RICH, to
pay for programs they refuse to pay to their employees through honest earned
wages.When I see just ONE of Sam Walton's children running a
cash register, stocking shelves, or being a Door Greeter -- they'll have at
least earned my respect.Getting that kind money [note: NOT earning]
$100's of Billions of Dollars to do nothing, and then under cutting and
rigging the "safety net" system by supplementing and subsidizing to get
even more of those "FREE" billions does not.WalMart is a
perfect example of excesses of Billionaires gaming the system to get Corporate
Welfare -- not the 2 cent welfare of the truly poor and the homeless
getting a loaf of Government cheese for their next meal.
To "Open Minded Mormon" but you are part of the rich, so why don't
you want to pay more in taxes. You have spoken in the past about your current
job. Based on where you work, and what you do, it is safe to bet that you earn
over $110,000/yr. At your salary range, you are in either the top 10% of income
earners or else in the top 5%. That puts you at being "rich". You may
not feel rich, but according to your standards, you are part of the elite.If you don't like the Waltons getting billions of dollars in
inheritance, please tell us that you have written a will that gives all of your
wealth to the government or to charity. We wouldn't want your kids to be
like the Waltons and get a boost when their parents die.
Stalwart:"There is nothing more definitive than the real world
proving conservatives wrong over and over again."Yes there is.
Conservatives refusing over and over to admit that they've been proved
Here's an experiment we can try: Let's raise the minimum wage to
$10.10 and see if the conservatives are right. That's really the only way
we'll ever know for sure. My apologies to all the research studies on both
sides that can't agree on the color of grass.
Better yet, let's raise it to $25 and we could see if the liberals are
right. Make it so no full time working person would be in poverty, and make it
big enough that we can see whether raising the minimum wage kills jobs. It needs
to be a big enough raise so the job losses can't be rationalized away on
Third Barker: "If you don't want to shop at Wal-Mart, don't!
Problem solved! No one is forced to work there or to shop there, its called
freedom!"Many live in areas that would be called "Food
Deserts" - areas where affordable, nutritious food is difficult to obtain.
I have the good fortune to live in an area where there are not only many grocery
and retail stores within walking distance but there are is also an abundance of
farmer's markets so fresh fruit and produce is easily attainable. With
regard to Wal-Mart, I also have a variety of choices and as you suggested, I
choose not to shop at Wal-Mart. However, I'm not certain that is the case
in all areas of the country, particularly in Utah. Last time I visited your
state my luggage was lost and I was forced to buy suitable clothing quickly. My
choices seemed to be either the Wal-Mart on this side of town or the Wal-Mart on
the other side of town. I wonder if Utah experiences a "desert" similar
to a "food desert" when it comes to choosing a retail experience other
Better yet: let's cut everyone's pay to $1/hour so the greedy can
hoard more money.I would gladly go to the restaurant that pays there
employees more. That's why I always shop Costco and never shop Walmart.Henry Ford decided to pay all his employees well enough that they could
afford to buy one of his cars. It worked out very well for his company and his
Speaking of food deserts, in many inner cities the liquor store is closer to
most people than the grocery store and that grocery store is often a Wal-Mart.
In many small towns, the Mom and Pop has been put out of business by Wal-Mart.
There is only one thing these companies understand and that is money. I predict
a future where people will create change through these companies by organized
social investing in order for the common worker to have a powerful voice at the
The poorest states in the nation are in the south. The states with the lowest
percentages of people paying any income taxes... are in the south. The states
with lower education, more uninsured... south and south. Lowest minimum wages?
South. If higher minimum wages are harmful, then why do the stats
not line up that way?
All of you who want workers to make more should become business owners and do it
yourself. Most fast food places are owned by ordinary people hoping to make
some money by leveraging everything they own but if take the incentive away to
make lots of money then the reward will not be worth it.I am all for
people earning lots of money but they need to be worth it, if not then all you
have done is devalue all of us. If Walmart is such a bad place to work then why
do they receive so many applications when they open a new store? Maybe they
just don't realize how picked on they soon will be.Comparing walmart
and costco are like comparing apples and oranges, different clientele, different
The CEO of McDonalds is paid about $8.75 million per year. McDonalds sells
6,480,000 hamburgers per day, or about 23.5 BILLION per year. McDonlds has to
inflate the price of each hamburger by $0.00369 dollars to pay their CEO. So,
they inflate the price of hamburger so that the price is ONE CENT higher per
three hamburgers to pay the CEO's salary.The CEO is not the
cause of McDonald's prices going up every time the minimum wage is
increased.How much should a CEO that oversees 35,000 outlets in 119
countries be paid? How many people in America are qualified to run that large
of an operation? How many people have the skills and experience to do the job?
There are more than 1.7 MILLION employees whose job depends on their CEO's
ability to hold market share. How many of them would lose their job if
McDonald's stock price fell 25% because the CEO was floundering?
@ThidWhat about the people like me who don't shop at Wal Mart, and
won't eat at McDonalds. But I still have to pay to subsidize their
wages(anyone who is an adult that works at minimum wage lives at home, has two
or three jobs, or uses government assistance. How bout Wal Mart pays enough for
these people to actually eat or rent an apartment. A fast food worker, who makes
minimum wage and works 40 hours a week(at 2 jobs, no one is hiring minimum at
full time hours) earns about $450-500 a month after taxes(you still have to pay
FICA and Social Security, regardless of income) A horrible 1 bedroom a month
apartment without housing subsidies is 500-600 in SL County. So remind me why
just stopping shopping at Wal Mart is going to fix this problem?
@Mike RichardsWhile I haven't owned a business i've been the
manager of restaurants in 3 different fast food franchises. If you take a medium
restaurant (like Arby's or Taco Bell) there are around 75 man hours a
day(or 5 people working each hour, for a restaurant open for 14 hours a day)
That adds up to an additional cost of around 183.75 an day. Honestly, if around
200 a day is make or breaking your store, your already in trouble. Most of the
places I worked were netting around 1000 a day. And if you are moving that kind
of volume you can raise the prices a minimal amount and not lose anything. Fast
food restaurants raise there prices all the time because of food costs(remember
how much stuff used to be on dollar menus?) An across the board minimum wage
increase really isn't that much difference than beef or chicken costs
NoodlekaboodlePoplar Grove, UT@Mike RichardsShhhh....Mike thinks things like rent/lease, power, utilities, raw materials, and
transportation costs are all "fixed".And the only
contributing factor to take into account for ANY inflation ever is those
atributed to those filthy, lowly, minimum wage scum workers.BTW - as
a "Manager", you were also paid dirt wages by the "Owners" who
stopped by occasionly just to see how you are minding the place FOR him...
Running a simple "break-even-analysis" spreadsheet on a business shows
just how much prices have to go up when wages are increased and throughput
remains the same. Any 1st year accounting major can run the numbers. But for
those who have never had to pay people, here's the basic information. You
categorise all fixed expenses (rent, repair, replacement, fixed francise fees,
advertising, etc.), then you categorise all variable costs per unit sold
(hamburger, buns, condiments, bags, napkins, straws, etc.). Once you know how
many widgets (burgers) that you can manufacture per hour, you can play with
wages and prices until you see what the price per unit has to be to break-even.
Those who have never owned a business but want to try running a
business can "run the numbers" if they hire a competent accountant for a
few hours. The first thing most people learn is that they're caught between
the proverbial rock and the hard place. Even the smallest "problem" can
eat up all the profits.Those who think that they can hold prices and
pay more for labor without labor producing more know nothing about the business
@LDS LiberalYou ain't kidding. It's even worse when you're
the manager though, because then you know how much your store is making, so you
know exactly how much you're being underpaid by, and for a store that had
net revenues of $2000 a day, you'd think that you could afford to pay the
manager more than 9.50 an hour....
I'll bet if an accountant sat down with that "manager", the manager
would learn just how little the restaurant was really making. Throwing around
words like "gross", "net" and "profits" without having
an accountant verify that those words were used properly means nothing. How much does it cost to open a franchise? $250,000? $500,000? $1
million? More? How much would that money earn if it were left in safe stocks?
There is no "free money". I don't know anyone dumb
enough to risk $1 million on a restaurant unless he expects to make much more
than he would leaving the money in the stock market. By the way, why would
anyone provide jobs to people who think that griping about their pay is the best
way to "manage" a business?If you think that there is money
to be made in the fast-food business, risk your own money. If you're right,
you'll make a living. If you're wrong, you'll hope that your
mismanagement won't haunt you for the rest of your life.
J ThompsonSPRINGVILLE, UTWent to my 30th High School
Reunion.Wanna know who made the most money in my Graduating
class?The Doctors? nopeThe Lawyers? nope We Engineers?
wrong again.CEO of their own companies? -- uh-uh.Try -- A Fast
Food Owner -- by a whopping factor of 5.She owned 4 franchises and
was making over $2 million a year -- NET profit.She then was able
re-invested and diversivy her portfolio in various realestate, stocks, and
T-bonds.That Netted and additional $3 million.She laughed and
said she should have bought a Car Dealership Franchises -- they do even way
better than Fast Food.You see -- it has very little to do with hard
work and sweat of your own brow, and everything to do with buying and
selling, and collecting what others are doing FOR you.
To "LDS Liberal" you seem to have a problem with business owners and the
fact that they can profit from employing others.If it is so wrong
for business owners to get rich by employing others because they are not doig
the work themselves, what do you have to say about welfare.A welfare
recipiant does not "hard work and sweat of your own brow", yet they are
able to collect money, food, and other possessions through the work of
others.If it is wrong for rich people to benefit becuase of the work
of others, why is it ok for poor people to benefit because of the work of
Neal doesn't understand the American consumer who is always looking for the
lowest price. That is why they continue to patronize businesses that employ
illegal aliens. It is also the reason that American producers are unable to
compete with countries with far cheaper labor such as China and India. The
majority of American consumers will always gravitate to the cheapest price, in
spite of the fact that they know that it harms not only the national economy,
but their own jobs as well. If illegal immigrant labor was not
tolerated by consumers, prices would rise when the illegal labor was replaced by
American Workers. Low income workers and the nation would benefit. Presently
there is a large labor surplus which increases unemployment and depresses wages,
especially for low income workers. If the flood of cheap legal and illegal were
to be reduced or stopped, the labor market would tighten and wages would
increase, even without a minimum wage. The economic laws of supply
and demand cannot be repealed over time. The price and rent controls tried in
the past failed. The minimum wage is a similar attempt to over ride economic
laws of supply and demand.
If the CEOs salary went exclusively to increase hourly workers' wage, what
would be the net effect, $0.05, $0.50 or$5.00 per hour increase? It is a quaint
publicity stunt, but what are the real effects? In Marxist countries the state
pretends to pay the employee and the employee pretends to work.