I think you nailed it!
So they're afraid of byu...but not ND. lol.
I don't think this is about a vast Power Five conspiracy. The P5 is a club
and you're not a member so you're going to be awkward situation for
scheduling. The P5 wants nine "real" games against fellow powerhouse
schools, and only three against pushovers. So where does that leave BYU?
You're too good to be considered a pushover, but not good enough to be
considered a powerhouse school. By 2017, the P5 is going to avoid
scheduling you.Solution: Get in one of the P5 conferences. No, you
won't have to play on Sunday, that can be fixed. Television rights
can't however. That's the problem BYU faces.
"...the two conferences are afraid of the Cougars in some small way and
don't want to share their piece of the pie with them.Afraid of the
Cougars?No. Not even in some small way.Follow the money.Don't want to share their piece of the pie with them?One of
BYU's stumbling blocks to an offer is the fact they won't relinquish a
piece of their pie."...The big boys didn't want to share their
spoils with the so-called little guys of college football...".Not any
more than BYU doesn't want to share their negotiated spoils with anyone
else in college football.If BYU won't share their negotiated spoils
with anyone in college football, why should anyone in college football want to
share their negotiated spoils with BYU?
Sounds about right. I'm sure that is what they were thinking.
I disagree. BYU is in the tough position of being good enough to beat some of
the best teams in the nation when they're firing on all cylinders, but bad
enough that they will still lose too many games against good opponents so that
they never reach that "elite" status. Hence, it's a lose - lose
game for any top program that plays them. If a top program beats BYU, that was
what was supposed to happen. If they lose, it's a massive upset. Even if
the SEC and ACC officially listed BYU as a "power opponent", it
wouldn't change the reality of the perception that top teams should always
beat BYU. Thus, I actually think excluding them was more of a ploy to discourage
SEC / ACC teams from playing BYU. Big conference teams have nothing to gain from
playing BYU, and those conference officials know it.
If BYU were to run the table they would go to the playoffs... That is not going
to happen. They might be able to run the table when they schedule all FCS
schools like weber.
It is likely that this is part of why they chose to not count BYU as a Big 5
team, but I think those making the decision had multiple reasons, not just this
one.Clearly BYU is historically and currently better than many of
the worst teams in the Big 5.
I think you missed it wide right. First off look at the record byu has against
the ACC and SEC less then 35%. So why play a team that is on par with the MWC.
You can say they are scared but who is scared to play byu the ACC and SEC did
not say that their teams could not play byu. Just that the game would not count
as a big 5 game. Ask Virginia they know they can schedule byu for a easy win. Of
the big 5 teams byu played last year how many did they beat not that many. So
again why play them?
ekute. ND is and has always been in. They would not think to exclude them and
besides ND has a scheduling agreement with the ACC and is part of them in all
other sports than football. It's not being afraid of them on the football
field, although BYU has proven they can hang with all but the elite of any
conference. It is afraid of having to share the money they hoard at the top
levels of CFB. As I have always said, level the playing field (money) and
you'll see much more competitive teams emerge from what is currently
considered 2nd tier programs.Only 3 years ago all of Ute nation
understood and fought this battle. Now suddenly they have short term memory
loss and are so much better than they used to be? True Ute fans should remember
how they felt being shut out, twice. They should still be enraged about CFB and
the monopoly that it is. Instead so many have now decided they are better than
the schools they continue to lose to simply because now, they make the big
bucks. Oligarchy is the best word for CFB anymore.
According to the author-Mountain West Conference teams need games against
BYU as much or more than the Cougars do. They need the notoriety of playing BYU
and more importantly, they need the air time.____________LOL! Why does the MWC need BYU for notoriety? Wyoming had a
home & home with Texas, home & home with Nebraska (only lost by 3 point
on the road) last year), home and home with Texas A&M, has won at
Tennessee.USU almost beat Auburn & Wisconsin on the road.Colorado State won at Virginia, played Alabama last season.Nevada beat
Boston College in a bowl three years ago. And has played several games against
the PAC 12. Since 2007 Nevada has played a home and home against Missouri, and a
home and home against Texas Tech, and played NEB, New Mexico plays
Big 12 teams regularly, played Arkansas in 2011, also played Pitt.Over the past decade, Fresno St has played several power conference teams.Have MWC teams lost a fair number of games to power conference teams,
yes. How is that any different than BYU?MWC teams already get
exposure.The MWC does not need BYU, BYU needs them.
Looks like MWC teams have no problem scheduling future games against power
conference teams.Take the paycheck and run!! Win or lose, that's more
than can be said for BYU.
Attn: BYU.Wyoming has a future home and home with Oregon. Sounds like BYU needs to be back in the MWC. At least they are scheduling good
Another article on this? Repeat the lie often enough...BYU does NOT
need to be considered a "major" to schedule games against the SEC and
ACC. The SEC and ACC will still have mid-majors on the schedule and that is
BYU. BYU could schedule those conferences right now today, this minute! But
they won't.The major teams are afraid to play BYU? Please.
BYU is afraid to schedule 9 majors because they'd lose bowl eligibility.
It happened to Utah. It happened to TCU. It would happen to BYU.
Finally someone nailed it. It should be obvious to even the most novice college
football fan, that this scheduling setback is just another example of The Man
trying to keep the Cougars down. File this under Persecution Complex,
Delusions of Grandeur, and how to handle the Five Stages of Grief as a sports
fan in today's world. Thank you Guest Commentator Jay Money for giving me a
good chuckle to start my day. I hope you remembered to post this to Bleacher
Report as well.
"A look at why BYU won't count in the plus one for the ACC and
SEC"Looks like another article to point out that BYU is the
Why should BYU get rewarded for going independent?If the ACC/SEC
said BYU would count toward one of the non-conference high-quality teams, then
wouldn't that punish Boise State or Fresno State for being in the MWC?
Boise St and others could then come out as independent and be counted as a
high-quality opponent.ACC/SEC would then have to redefine what makes
a quality opponent, instead they just leave it at Power 5 schools (and Notre
Dame - who basically is an unofficial ACC member anyway).Idaho and
Old Dominion are Independent, would they qualify too? If you exclude
Boise St then you have to exclude BYU too.
I am sorry but this article is so inaccurate I can't even talk myself into
spending the time trying to submit multiple comments to refute it. It would be
too lengthy. These opinions here are so contrary to reality that I actually feel
somewhat insulted as a reader of this paper to be subjected to it, especially
after it's presented almost as fact in a few instances (arguments) here.
If BYU played 8 games against P5 opponents and then Boise State,
Houston ect.. What? That won't happen unless BYU joins a P5 conference and
then they would never in a million years be undefeated. I actually think BYU has
a great chance of going undefeated this year. But so what? With that schedule,
if they do it and make the playoffs, then BYU would have no reason to join a
conference, that is unless their fans want exciting regular season games other
than the YMCA of Idaho.
Or consider that since Pac 12 schools schedule BYU more frequently, they
don't want BYU to be considered a quality opponent since that will beef up
the Pac 12's overall strength of schedule more than their own. If the ACC
and SEC played BYU all the time, they would want their wins to be celebrated and
their losses justified, but they don't want the Pac 12 to take that
recognition every time they play BYU since they do it much more often.
Well-reasoned and logical argument. I believe it's right on the money.
And this is from a Utah fan.
The author seems to be living in the past. Since going independent BYU seems to
have lost not only relevancy but also their ability to manipulate their MWC
peers. Most of the MWC teams have moved on and are scheduling bigger and more
prestigious teams. Wyoming with Oregon, USU with Tennessee and Wake Forest. The
Cougs can no longer demand 2 FOR 1s with the MWC or anyone for that matter. Utah
has obviously out grown the Cougs. 10 year ago the Y was obviously more
prestigious than the U, but that ship has come and gone. Although the U
struggles in the PAC 10+2 they obviously made the right move. The Cougs and
independence, not so much. There is no conspiracy here, the Y and their fans
need a dose of reality and see where their program has declined to. Especially
ekuteLayton, UTThe SEC playing BYU is like BYU playing Utah
State. If you win you get no glory and if you lose you get ridicule. utah hides
behind the mantel of the PAC 12 and not on its own merit either athletically or
I think this article has some logic to it, but on the other hand it doesn't
solve BYU's problem. BYU has got to join a major conference, and sooner
than later. The BYU flag is not waving as high as it once was. Every year the
quality of home games seem to not be improving while the quality of away games
are getting harder and harder to book. This new BCS playoff is what it is, and
if BYU is not at the table as a member of a major conference, over time, will
become less and less relevant in major college circles, affecting fan base,
recruiting and the byutv audience. We need to be aggressive, and make an offer
to the Big 12 that they can't refuse (we receive no additional revenue from
the conference until the remainder of the ESPN contract expires in five years).
We give up new revenue, but it changes nothing financially for us or the Big 12
as we stand now. We maintain our no Sunday play rule, but give up something for
it. The byutv deal can be solved too.
@ jmoneyThe cougars are the best team on the field whether they win
or lose, yet the P5 won't schedule us, waaaaaaa...
BYU should drop all inter school sports like BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii have. It
hasn't hurt these universities; in fact, academically, BYU-Idaho's
reputation has grown significantly and continues to grow. BYU-Hawaii will
probably do the same. Do employers come to a campus to find competent potential
employees because of the university's football team or because of the
university's reputation for preparing students for the world of work. The
sooner BYU drops inter school athletics, the more likely I will be to donate to
them because I will then know they are no longer distracted by non education
functions like football and basketball.
@ AFCoug"Only 3 years ago all of Ute nation understood and
fought this battle. Now suddenly they have short term memory loss and are so
much better than they used to be? True Ute fans should remember how they felt
being shut out, twice. They should still be enraged about CFB and the monopoly
that it is. Instead so many have now decided they are better than the schools
they continue to lose to simply because now, they make the big bucks. I couldn't agree more. I have lost respect more and more since than for
the Utes and especially many of their fans because they are so slow to forget.
Even if BYU makes it to the Big 12, for me it's always about the team, not
the conference that they play in, so you won't find me slapping a Big 12
sticker on the back of my car. Team loyalty > Conference affiliation. Until
everyone has a shot to win it like NCAA basketball tournament which is not
asking a whole lot just a 8-10 teams playoff platform which many advocate
anyways, college football will insure that the ugly stepsisters keep cinderella
Your reasoning makes sense. The other factor is that teams do not want to come
to Provo because it can be a very tough place to play. They saw what happened
to Texas in Provo last year. Why take a chance on losing? Boise State has the
same problem.P5 schools have no problem doing a home and home series
with schools like Wyoming and Colorado State because they're not worried
about losing on the road to those schools.
I thought only Utah was afraid of BYU, now the entire SEC and ACC are afraid of
the Cougars too? I'm sure Clemson, Alabama, Florida State and LSU are all
shaking in their boots at the very thought of playing BYU. Jay and some of the
other Cougar faithful need to check their egos at the door. You are not who you
think you are.Arrogance along with a lack of signature wins is what
has gotten the Cougars in to the position they're in today. An HD truck,
fans in China, quest for perfection and making demands with the Big 12
isn't the right recipe. Win a few meaningful football games against teams
that finish the season ranked.... that will do wonders for the future of the
This is what Utah experienced after running the table twice in short order,
playing very tough schedules and being set aside while others played for the
National Championship. That's being left out and it hurts. But we should
remember that all of that came in the wake of a 1984 National Championship that
went to a team that played a nothing schedule and beat a 19th ranked 6-6
Michigan team in the Holiday Bowl. That was a wonderful team, but they were not
the best team in the nation. This was never going to be allowed to happen and
suddenly SOS became the catch phrase that could be used in any way necessary to
make certain the NCAA and the power schools and conferences got what they wanted
on National Championship night. Now this program, which I respect and which
(even as a Ute fan) I know is better than many, many teams in the Power 5
conferences is being put in a too tough to play, not prestigious enough to
schedule, box. The Y needs a conference.
It is interesting to read this article and all of the attending comments. I hope that the administration, football coaches and players at BYU will
simply win on the field. I am sure there is a battle behind the scenes in
offices and on phones. But on the field, that is where BYU can speak the
loudest. They must stop losing games to Virginia, Texas, Utah and teams from
the P5s. They should be regularly and consistently winning those games and then
the Power 5s would not feel they could get away with excluding BYU as they are
now, or at least not as easily.Just win games against the
"great" conferences and teams.I am hoping that Bronco and
players will turn this slap towards greater effort on the field, greater
preparation for games, and solid wins.
4601Salt Lake City, UT"utah hides behind the mantel of the
PAC 12 and not on its own merit either athletically or academically."LOL!
AFCoug "Only 3 years ago all of Ute nation understood and fought this
battle. Now suddenly they have short term memory loss"Cougar
fans should remember how Utah won the battle. In the talk of lawsuits and
unfair exclusion, Utah - particularly Urban Meyer - asked "What does it take
to qualify for a BCS game? OK. We'll do that." They followed the
rules. They beat the rules. They got in.If BYU wants to considered
a major on the schedule, you can talk of lawsuits and unfair exclusion. OR, you
can ask "What does it take to qualify as a major?" Then do that.
Sir, I diasagree and reject your conclusion completely. BYU is not a member of
a P5 conference, therefore they cannot be counted as such. This has nothing to
do with ability on the field of play it will, however, remove any potential
argument regarding SOS. The schools of the PAC12, BIG10, and BIG12 will all
play a minimum of 9 P5 schools (9 conference games of which all members are P5
schools by definition). The ACC and SEC must, by definition, do the same.
Therefore, this has absolutely nothing to do with BYU other than they are not a
member of a P5 conference. Some of you will argue the neither is Notre Dame and
they count. Well, BYU is not Notre Dame, not even close. Again, put your egos
aside, this is not about BYU.This issue is a nonstarter, the real
problem for BYU is the potential rules violations. If you think being a cougar
is rough now, just wait until those allegations are proven to be true. This
ACC/SEC 'tempest in a teapo.... er cocoa dispenser' will be shown to
be as trivail as it really is.
Mark321Las Vegas, NV"I have lost respect more and more
since than for the Utes and especially many of their fans because they are so
slow to forget."Utah has received its reward for their
incredible 2004 and 2008 season...a sweet set up in the Pac-12. Life just
doesn't get any better. You don't need to worry about us. "Until everyone has a shot to win it like NCAA basketball tournament which
is not asking a whole lot just a 8-10 teams playoff platform which many advocate
anyways..."How does an 8-10 team playoff translate into everyone
having a shot to win like NCAA basketball? What about Division II programs?
Why aren't byu fans raising the flag of injustice about the
separation of Division II and Division I? Why do byu fans think it's
"fair" that they have money coming from ESPN but no one else has a deal
like that? byu already has more than it deserves but we don't see other
programs griping about it. Get over yourselves. Nick Saban is
right...the Big5 should schedule games between themselves and create a new
The BCS was created as a reaction to BYU winning the national championship in
1984. It was designed to keep BYU out.Why would they let them in
Ask the insiders at Utah and TCU if there is a difference playing a P5
conference schedule. Hint: The SOS issue everyone in the State of Utah used to
mock is real and pretty strong. Don't just laugh at Utah...
ask TCU. Notre Dame plays 9-10 P5 teams year in & year out. BYU
may eventually get to that kind of schedule, but it's a Catch-22
they're in now: Win against P5 teams and become undesirable to schedule, a
serious black eye for those P5 teams that you beat. Lose to P5 teams and you may
find your scheduling opportunities improve, but you're still considered
non-P5.Look at how BYU beating Texas last year was received: Texas
fired the Defensive Coordinator on the flight home, and the head coach was
forced into retirement at the end of the season.Tell me again why P5
teams should be excited to play BYU?
Wow! Afraid of BYU but not Notre Dame? The most absurd reasoning in this
"commentary". It's the old if they don't want us we must be
too good for them attitude. The spin capable of the paranoia laced Cougar free
lance authors is impressive.
CrowSandy , UT"Ask Virginia they know they can schedule
byu for a easy win."So, Crow, after BYU beats VA in the Fall,
you are going to eat crow, right?
@stanfunkyThank you for looking at this as a college football fan,
not as a Ute fan. This article is 100% accurate. Most Ute fans won't see
it because the argument seems to be only about BYU. I don't think that was
the author's intent. The point is that these power conferences are very
scared of BYU, just as they are scared of Boise and Fresno. They are scared of
the top mid major teams because in a good year these so-called mid major teams
can pull off an upset. In the bcs, they could exclude teams like tcu, Boise,
and utah from the championship game. Even if those teams were undefeated. With
a playoff, they can't do that. If there was a playoff in 2008,
There's a good chance that Utah wins the NC. This is how it will be for
mid majors. The argument is not only about BYU, it's about all mid majors.
The only reason BYU is being singled out here is that it happens to be
"First off, the part about Craig Thompson and the Mountain West Conference
won't be discussed at length here because they don't matter. The only
reason I can see that Thompson — the conference commissioner — spoke
up was to get a rise out of BYU and its fans and nothing more.Mountain West Conference teams need games against BYU as much or more than the
Cougars do. They need the notoriety of playing BYU and more importantly, they
need the air time."byu fans will find out how much Thompson and
the MWC don't matter if they decide to make scheduling P5 teams priority #1
and leave the mid-majors as an after thought. If that decision is made, it will
be based on making the strongest case possible for playing in a major bowl game,
i.e., Fiesta Bowl and nothing more. MCW is only doing what is in their best
interest.byu doesn't need the MWC? Take MWC teams off
byu's schedule and byu is finished.MWC needs the air time? I
watched every USU games last year...how much more air time do they need?
The issue is where do they draw the line? They can't just use "what
teams are good" because that changes from year to year. So they have the P5
because they know on average those are the 5 best leagues. Now what about the
others? Do you start cherrypicking teams like Northern Illinois or Boise State
that have been successful in recent years? Do you start cycling things where you
only include non-P5 teams that were ranked top 25? They included Notre Dame
because of their history, and just left it at that. Regardless, BYU
can still get on these schedules. Voters and computers know how good or bad BYU
is any given year. They know the difference between Kentucky and Oregon and
Akron and San Diego State. The ACC and SEC have 8 conference games. Take Georgia
Tech. Last year they played BYU and the P5 team Georgia. Virginia played BYU and
P5 team Oregon. I really don't think this'll be a big problem. The
only hard part is getting teams available to play in October-November.
Wyoming is a Division II team. For proof, see every Wyoming Cowboy game played
in the last 15 years.
Oh Well, we could make Volleyball a Power 5 and we'll come on Saturdays in
watch them in Cougar Stadium. I think it is better to stay away from that mess
dyiound ther younder with the aligators and opisums which is the ACC and SEC the
Dukes of Hazard mentality--corrupt and hypocritical
Kralon "Clearly BYU is historically and currently better than many of the
worst teams in the Big 5."Based on what criteria? As stated
before, several games a year against mostly average P5 schools, preceded by
either a week off or a Savannah State-like team is not the same as the week in
week out rigors of a big time P5 schedule. Utah and their fans clearly
underestimated the effect of this after joining the PAC 12. Also see TCU. BYU
would be average at best with these schedules. Also,if you can't beat an
otherwise winless Virginia how can you say that BYU is currently better than
"very powerful Utah teams" - hmm, why don't you say "Mighty
Very Powerful Utah Teams." Lol!Okay Utah, when are you guys
going start winning? All BYU have to do is start winning too. Yeah,
we have those ucon, Savanah, ucf, houston, and houston on our schedle that we
should win them. I know USU should be mighty too. There is no excuse losing to
Virginia this time around at home, PLEASE!
@ 4601"utah hides behind the mantel of the PAC 12 and not on its
own merit either athletically or academically"BYU hides behind
the religious discrimination excuse to justify why they were never invited to
join a power conference and Utah did.
The fallacy of most of these comments is that there is some connection with all
P5 conference teams and SOS. Fact is, you could craft a 12 game schedule
against 12 P5 conference teams and have that SOS be in the 70 range...the range
most like to characterize as a soft schedule, at least for a P5 school.If a conference were really a power conference and truly wanted to ensure its
teams had a top-notch SOS it could enact a rule that all OOC games had to be
against teams whose Sagarin ranking averaged at let 65 over the last 3 years.
No need to give teams a waiver. It's objective and fair. Mission
U-PACRowlett, TX"Since BYU-Provo is already Div 2 in all
other sports, why shouldn't they just stop the "indy" madness and
beg the Big Sky Conference for an invite? It's quite clear that the MWC
doesn't want BYU again and the P5 conferences are not going to be even a
slight possibility for many justifiable reasons."Well said,
U-PAC. This is exactly the model we should all be driving for. let's rollLEHI, UT"If a conference were really a
power conference and truly wanted to ensure its teams had a top-notch SOS it
could enact a rule that all OOC games had to be against teams whose Sagarin
ranking averaged at let 65 over the last 3 years."A logistical
nightmare for which there is no need. The P5 programs should simply play all 12
games against P5 programs. No rankings needed...winner takes all. The Div I
and Div II can do whatever they want (except play P5 programs).
I don't think it has anything to do with BYU's SOS, or more
importantly, the SOS bump you get when playing (and beating) BYU.Remember, even if you're Alabama, you have to win to get to the playoffs.
So BYU is not an automatic, but in fact is dangerous. So in the recent past
Alabama schedule real pusycats. Well, they can't do that now, they have to
play some tough teams. Again, BYU is a risk, so to minimize the risk, they would
only play them in Tuscaloosa.This is the story, boys and girls.
Simply a matter of optimizing your chances of getting to the playoffs. Nothing
more, nothing less.Now lets consider the other 64 teams. Many of
those will need a big win. We know who they are: the middle of the pack in the
"Power 5". None of these teams are very good, so BYU is a win-win for
them. If they lose, so what? Doesn't count. If they win, it might count in
a tie-breaker. Beating BYU is a good win, and doesn't hurt to lose to BYU.
@ my perspective"Utah received its reward from its incredible
2004 and 2008 season"How about Rutgers? What incredible season
did they have to earn there way into the Big 10? How about Colorado? What
incredible season did they have to earn there way into the Pac 12? Granted they
were already in the Big 12 but you get my drift. How about Boise State
didn't they have 2 incredible seasons like Utah?Utah's BCS
bowl victories had nothing to do with it. Utah was sloppy seconds or option 2
when option 1 Texas, Oklahoma and other big 12 teams chose to stay big 12.
@afcoug we are not shut out any more we are part of the Big5 and will receive a
full share of the PAC12 payout this year. We don't have to remember being
shut out because we are living the dream that most byu fans would kill for.
I agree with the author that the P5 decision makers don't want to risk
losing a spot in the play-offs. I don't agree that means they are
"afraid" of BYU. These folks simply know that the safest course of
action is to consider all theoretically possibilities whereby they could lose a
spot and then counter-act as many of them as they can.
I will say that if byu played the Utes schedule they would not even reach a bowl
game. Do u really think u are better than Utah and TCU. They both can't get
to a bowl game. I wonder why could it be because of the schedule they play? I
wish those conferences would play u so u could keep saying love my independents.
And Pac 10.2 your.
BYU has been a football program in measured decline since the mid-1990s, it is
time for the LDS church senior leaders to just drop it entirely. It has been
done at the maller 2 LDS Church schools, why not Provo?
I have a question: do you think these big boys would schedule Utah? Of course
they would because they know they would get a win against a power conference
without having to play a power team. Whether you like it or not BYU has a
history of slapping down the big boys when it is least expected. Just ask
Texas. They thought they had a walk-on/walk-off win after we lost to Virginia.
@ 1 SLC Sports fanBYU will never drop sports. It has been
entertained way too much on this and other boards and it just won't happen.
If BYU needs to drop sports because of "measured decline" than there
will be other programs (even some in power 5 conferences who are in measured
decline too) who need to give up sports as well. It will take a Penn
State-Sandusky scenario to happen for the church to pull the plug on BYU sports
and that scenario will probably remove football only. People forget how good BYU
is in its Olympic sports. One of the best all-around Olympic sports programs in
Some of the assertions by the author are outright ridiculous. The
Mountain West conference most certainly doesn't need BYU as much as BYU
needs the Mountain West conference. Why, if Thompson follows through
and decides not to schedule BYU going forward, BYU football would be in some
serious trouble. The Cougs on average schedule 4 MW teams a year. That's a
third of the season!Besides, one earlier poster said it best:
"If BYU won't share their negotiated spoils with anyone in college
football, why should anyone in college football want to share their negotiated
spoils with BYU?" If BYU doesn't bend on BYUtv, they can
forget about ever being in a major conference.
BYU fans take a deep breath. Sure it would be nice to be in a P5 conference
right now, or would it? BYU doesn't have a top ten caliber team at the
moment. Utah doesn't have a top ten caliber team either. Yes Utah has an
easier pathway to the playoff right now, but really only on paper. So would you
rather be in Utah's shoes, being thrown in the deep end, trying to swim
with the big boys. Utah is now without much exposure, and their recruiting base
is pretty much the Rocky Mts and west. Meanwhile BYU has the luxury of playing
all over the country. BYU's recruiting base is expanding. The results are
already being seen, as BYU out 'stared' Utah this past season and I
expect that to continue. As BYU gets better athletes, not only will they win
more games they will also look more attractive to a P5 conference. In the
meantime BYU can keep going to bowl games and improving. How does Utah improve
when they are losing more than winning and their recruits have offers to the
warmer, winning teams in the rest of the PAC-12?
Mark321Las Vegas, NV"How about Rutgers? What incredible
season did they have to earn there way into the Big 10? How about Colorado? What
incredible season did they have to earn there way into the Pac 12?...How about
Boise State didn't they have 2 incredible seasons like Utah?"Rutgers brings more to the table than sports and have been a member of the
Big10 since it's beginning, I believe. So, if I get the full intent of
your drift, let's just say that byu is no Rutgers. Colorado is
much the same story but with the Big12.Boise St had it's chance
to move to the P5 but backed out when the Big East fell apart. "Utah's BCS bowl victories had nothing to do with it. Utah was sloppy
seconds or option 2 when option 1 Texas, Oklahoma and other big 12 teams chose
to stay big 12."I will agree that Utah's BCS bowl victories
were most certainly not the only consideration in their invite to the Pac-12 but
it was a factor. The Pac12 is about much more than sports.
Adirondack CougarLoon Lake, NY"BYU doesn't have a top
ten caliber team at the moment. Utah doesn't have a top ten caliber team
either. Yes Utah has an easier pathway to the playoff right now, but really only
on paper. So would you rather be in Utah's shoes, being thrown in the deep
end, trying to swim with the big boys. Utah is now without much exposure, and
their recruiting base is pretty much the Rocky Mts and west. Meanwhile BYU has
the luxury of playing all over the country. BYU's recruiting base is
expanding. The results are already being seen, as BYU out 'stared'
Utah this past season and I expect that to continue." Your plea
is completely based on what Utah is doing. An entertaining read but you
realize, don't you, that Utah is not byu's problem. btw...the so called luxury byu has of playing all over the country is looking
more and more like it's dependent on who they are trying to schedule.
Also, byu did not out star the Utes in recruiting. Again, Utah is not
BYU is an independent and adds nothing to benefit those that belong to P5
conferences. The comparisons to ND are laughable. BYU is so far distant from
ND in prestige, tradition and long term quality of play that neither BYU, or
Utah for that matter, can even see their tail lights. ND makes enough on fan
gear and concession sells alone to run most non-football Collegiate AD's.
They have proven through the years with victories that they belong. It truly
means something to beat ND. Right now, if you are a strong team, beating BYU
means nothing. If you are a weak P5 team, BYU may beat you and thereby keep
you out of a bowl. BYU can only take from the P5 conferences, it has nothing to
give. A question, so far unaddressed, is whether a non-P5 school will be able to
compete in recruiting against P5 schools with the impending cost of the P5
scholarship rule changes. ND obviously can. The ESPN deal is sweet, but maybe
not sweet enough. As an independent, I wonder, maybe erroneously, if their is a
question about BYU's financial abilities and commitments with scholarship
@ MyPerspective"So, if I get the full intent of your drift,
let's just say that byu is no Rutgers."True but in the
other sense, Rutgers is no BYU either. Not the tradition nor history or success
that BYU has had in football as well as other bottom feeder programs from the
power 5 conference compared to BYU's tradtion, history, and success.Rutgers
has one thing on BYU that got them in and that's market. After option 1
failed for the Pac 12 which was poaching Big 12 schools, there next option was
markets and that was Colorado (Denver market) and Utah (SLC market) to create a
conference championship game to create more money. BYU has a large market in the
SLC market as well, but the Pac 12 didn't want a religious school. Money
and market was what got them in not recent success."Boise St had
it's chance to move to the P5 but backed out when the Big East fell
apart."The Big East was never going to get a seat at the table
even with Boise State in their conference. Boise State would've never left
the Big East if they were part of the power 5.
It's articles like this that bother me when it comes to SOME BYU fans. SEC
& ACC scared of including BYU? C'mon...that's about as ridiculous
as Utah fans saying they're improving with 4-5, 3-6, and 2-7 subsequent
seasons. The SEC didn't exempt BYU because they didn't want the hassle
of having to explain to other schools like Boise State that they wouldn't
be exempt despite having a much higher FBS win record than BYU including two BCS
victories. BYU needs to get in the Big 12 or the path to relevancy
will be long arduous and probably won't bear fruit. Time for some humility
BYU fans, coaches, and administrators. You aren't Stanford in academics and
you aren't Alabama in sports, stop asking for TV rights that others
don't have or RIP...it's really that simple.
Even with 2 looses we deserve a shot at playoffs.
@Mark321Utah's BCS bowl victories had nothing to do with it.
Utah was sloppy seconds or option 2 when option 1 Texas, Oklahoma and other big
12 teams chose to stay big 12.------------And BYU
isn't even considered a sloppy third. Talk about being irrelevant.
BYU fans won't like this, but the Y's football program just
doesn't bring enough to the table. The risk vs. reward benefits just
aren't there for ACC and SEC teams. I'll agree that they aren't
willing to risk a loss to BYU. But that's because the benefits of a win
aren't big enough to justify derailing your season if you lose. No matter
how bad they want it to be, BYU isn't Notre Dame. LSU or Clemson isn't
going to move up 5-10 spots by beating the Cougars. Even if BYU goes into a game
against these teams unbeaten, it's not likely to be in the last month of
the season when it would benefit their opponent the most.If
BYU's offense had excelled the way the defense has the last few years, then
they'd have an argument. But they never busted the BCS. So what's
changed that would make them want to play BYU now?
@ Uteology"And BYU isn't even considered a sloppy third.
Talk about being irrelevant."And if we are so irrelevant then
why is your conference still scheduling us?
Mark321Las Vegas, NV"...but the Pac 12 didn't want a
religious school. Money and market was what got them in not recent success."
LOL! Religion had nothing to do with it. The Pac-12 is out of
byu's reach. It's fun to watch you fixate on the Utes but
again, byu's problem is not Utah, the Pac-12, the SEC, the ACC, the Big10,
or the Big 12. So, Mark321...what's left?
@ ekute - Layton, UT - "So they're afraid of byu...but not ND.
lol."Ahhhh....nice straw-man arguement there.Let me
'splain it to you (once again.....)They are afraid of losing to
BYU, since BYU has, in fact, beaten even "elite" teams (and, that, even
recently. Remember Oklahoma? Yeah, I thought so. However, BYU has laid a few
goose egs, too. Like Virginia. That was a croc. But before you try to
foolishly claim that BYU "always" does that, look at Oklahoma. And
Miami. And Pittsburg. And UCLA. As far as Notre Dame goes, they
are afraid. But not afraid of losing to them. Nope, losing to Notre Dame is a
very strong possibility. But they still "fear" Notre Dame, or to be
more specific, they fear looking like cowards if they DON'T play Notre
Dame.All you have to do is open your eyes.BTW,
how's that 3-year losing record working out for you?
@ MyPerspective"LOL! Religion had nothing to do with it. The
Pac-12 is out of byu's reach. It's fun to watch you fixate
on the Utes but again, byu's problem is not Utah, the Pac-12, the SEC, the
ACC, the Big10, or the Big 12. So, Mark321...what's left?"You didn't make any sense with that rant. Fixated on the Utes? And here
you are on a BYU comment board, so who's fixated on who? Very hypocritical
I'm so tired of hearing this.Ask yourself BYU fans, why would
Colorado leave the BIG 12 for the PAC 12? Colorado was already planning an exit
strategy before that came up. Like Nebraska, they became tired of Texas bullying
everyone else in the Big 12. When Nebraska left, Colorado had already planned on
leaving. That is a fact.And call it whatever you want (sloppy
seconds or whatever) Colorado and Utah were picked up by the PAC 12. BYU
was not invited, get over it. You chose the the path of independence, live
with it.BYU legacy means nothing to power conferences, get used to it.The door is gradually shutting on your football program, realize it.Find
another football program to be a fan of, plan on it.
@ CA. readerIsn't BYU 2-13 against the last 15 ranked teams
they've played? BYU does not have the reputation of a giant killer. Sure
they beat Texas, they also lost to UVA, Wisconsin, ND, Utah, and Washington.
"They are afraid of losing to BYU, since BYU has, in fact, beaten even
"elite" teams (and, that, even recently. Remember Oklahoma? Yeah, I
thought so. However, BYU has laid a few goose egs, too. Like Virginia. That was
a croc. But before you try to foolishly claim that BYU "always" does
that, look at Oklahoma. And Miami. And Pittsburg. And UCLA. "So,
four big wins in the past 24 years? Nice. Also, OU has a big name,
but they were a mediocre team in 2009
MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UTMy 'plea' is for BYU
fans to have some patience and watch this all unfold. Nothing is final yet.
The playoff will expand and the P5 conferences will change some more. The goal
is to get to the NC playoff. I just believe that the road BYU has taken will
get them to the same place in the end and I predict faster than Utah, due to the
things I mentioned above.If the P5 conferences do get their way then they
will only say that they have the P5 champion, not the NCAA champion. Until it
is more inclusive like Bball will we really have a NC.BYU did out recruit
Utah last year. Just ask Chris B. he even admitted it. I know only by a
faction of number but it is a start. Let's see what happens this year. In
the mean time good luck to both teams and let's see how things unfold.
@ Adirondack CougarI agree BYU will be fine.
2ferA fan of a team that isn't even good enough to qualify for
bowl anymore, should worry more about his own team's steady decline 4-5,
3-6, 2-7, with a loss to lowly Washington State knocking the Utes out of
contention for a bowl berth.btw, when comes to laying goose eggs,
NOBODY beats the U:SHUT OUT by 10-loss UNLV - 0-27 - a team that
only beat one other team, 2-10 Utah State.Beaten AT HOME by 10-loss
Colorado - a team that hadn't won a road game in four years.
@ Rose Bowl call yet?"btw, when comes to laying goose eggs,
NOBODY beats the U:SHUT OUT by 10-loss UNLV - 0-27 - a team that
only beat one other team, 2-10 Utah State.Beaten AT HOME by 10-loss
Colorado - a team that hadn't won a road game in four years"Let's see, BYU certainly can make their case for laying goose eggs:BYU got SHUT OUT by Utah 3-0 in 2003. BYU got beaten by 10-loss Virginia
19-16 - a team BYU had no business losing, but did! How can we not
forget all the goose eggs BYU has laid against Utah? In 2004 Utah
crushed BYU 52-21 - College Gameday was in town to witness that brutal beating
and to see Utah crash the BCS. In 2008 Utah dismantles BYU 48-24 - Utah clinched
a berth in the Sugar Bowl. My personal favorite, in 2011, Utah went down to
Provo and took BYU to the woodshed winning 54-10 on YOUR home field. It's safe to say that BYU has had their fair share of laying goose eggs.
bahaha so ridiculous! I'm sure that the writer (and the majority of byu
fans) also think that Utah stopped playing BYU because they were scared. haha
gosh I don't know why I waste my time reading these articles. Its a
continuous round of byu fans justifying why they think a mediocre team is the
best in the nation.
I think it would be best if BYU just faded away.
Mark321Las Vegas, NV@ Uteology"And BYU
isn't even considered a sloppy third. Talk about being irrelevant."And if we are so irrelevant then why is your conference still scheduling
us?-------------The same reason why the PAC-12 is
scheduling Fresno State (Utah and USC), Hawaii (Washington and Oregon State),
Wyoming (Oregon), Nevada (Arizona), New Mexico (ASU), etc.Mocking
Utah as a sloppy second for a P5 conference, when your team is in 40 years
discussions is just priceless.
BleedCougarBlueEnid, OK@ ekute - Layton, UT - "So
they're afraid of byu...but not ND. lol."Ahhhh....nice
straw-man arguement there.Let me 'splain it to you (once
again.....)They are afraid of losing to BYU, since BYU has, in fact,
beaten even "elite" teams (and, that, even recently. Remember
Oklahoma?-------------It depends on how you define an
"elite" team. The last time BYU beat a final ranked Power 5
team was in 1996. Since then they have beat only 3 ranked teams (2006 #21 TCU,
2009 #18 Utah, 2012 #18 USU). In the BCS era BYU has a losing
record against P5 teams, no BCS bowls, no BCS bowl wins.
@ Carson"I think it would be best if BYU just faded
away."Carson,BYU does a whole lot of good in this
world with academics as well as athletics. Think about the firesides that BYU
players take time to do on road games which by the way packs chapels every time
the firesides are held. Think about guys who aren't LDS who leave the
university as better people through education and the church influence at BYU.
Yes, some bad moments happen but students at BYU are human and make mistakes,
but BYU does an overwhelmingly amount of good than bad. You may think it's
best for BYU to fade away because of comment boards like this filled with
Utah-lovin BYU-haters. Of course they are going to hate BYU. They've hated
them for decades and will always hate them. In Las Vegas, you'll have a few
fans hate BYU but the majority don't really care. The rivalry between
UNLV-BYU basketball was a little heated in the closing years of BYU's stay
in the Mountain West, but both teams had a lot of respect for one another.
College football is about money & power and retaining it at all cost.
Nothing more. Utah fans commenting here should remember their roots and how
hard they fought the injustice of it all just a few years ago. Of course the P5
(see, power is even in their chosen nick name) will only allow those to join
their ranks that are in a chosen conference already. Any outsiders opens up a
subjective line in the sand they don't want to hassle with. Everyone knows
there are teams in those P5 conferences that are far from a top 65 program just
as there are those not in the P5 that are easily top 65 programs. $$$ and power
is all it's about--- not strength, academics, research titles, or any other
stuff people may like to site. Until there's a 16 team playoff with all
schools having equal opportunity, there will be a question as to who's the
real NC. Upsets happen. Honest fans, no matter who they cheer for, know this
is the truth.
@Mark321Las Vegas, NVThe utes keep scheduling byu because it
allows them to gain some confidence before going into the regular season. Now it
has just turned into a joke so they stopped scheduling them.
Ute fans make me laugh. "We are so over BYU", "Stop complaining, no
conference wanted you!" "BYU is irrelevant, they should get rid of their
sports programs." Yet they continue to comment on BYU message boards. Talk
about big brother syndrome! Ute fans were excited to go to a P5 conference
because it made them feel superior to BYU for the first times in their life, yet
BYU still gets more headlines, more press and is still much more relevent then
the bottom feeder Utes. I would be jealous to if I was a Ute fan. Utah will
maybe sniff a "playoff chance" every 8 years. Maybe once every 30 years,
make it to the playoff. This is their reality and it is starting to h=get to
them. BYU might not have many opportunities either, but at least we have more
control over it then the Utes.
U-PAC: The 2014 recruiting class "ranking" does not even take into
consideration Lowell Lotulelei or Logan Stott. Add those two in and Utah's
ranking skyrockets.Simpe: Utah didn't stop scheduling byU, we
took a two year break to play a home and home against a power 5 school Michigan.
byU is scheduled once again after that.
Also,forgotten is that BYU has lost to a below average Pac-12 team
in the Utes!!!!
idaho cougar fanTwin Falls, ID"Ute fans make me
laugh...yet they continue to comment on BYU message boards. Talk about big
brother syndrome! Ute fans were excited to go to a P5 conference because it made
them feel superior to BYU for the first times in their life, yet BYU still gets
more headlines, more press and is still much more relevent then the bottom
feeder Utes."You have to be kidding! You really enjoy seeing
byu get this kind of press? Do you really think these stories make byu look
superior?? Our invitation to an elite conference was fantastic but
not because it made us feel superior to byu. Good grief, we already knew that.
The invitation cemented our place, forever, in one of elite group of schools in
the nation. Utah's invitation to the Pac-12 served as a wake
up call to byu fans as Utah County was put on suicide watch in June 2010. How
incredibly humbling that must have been for you. And now here we are, watching
it play out all over again. Lol!
The whole POINT of the rule is to NOT play mid majors like Wyoming and byu and
Utah state.You are all mid majors!The arrogance of byu
to come in and try and tell the big boys they don't know what they're
doing by making this rule.No conference wants byU because byU is a
mid major quality university and football program.THAT is why you
aren't in a big boy conference and THAT is why the rule was put in place by
these conferences in the first place.LOL at your weak attempt to try
and tell the big boys what to do
@MyPerspectiveYou have to be kidding! You really enjoy seeing byu
get this kind of press? Do you really think these stories make byu look
superior??Our invitation to an elite conference was fantastic but
not because it made us feel superior to byu. Good grief, we already knew that.
The invitation cemented our place, forever, in one of elite group of schools in
the nation.Utah's invitation to the Pac-12 served as a wake up
call to byu fans as Utah County was put on suicide watch in June 2010. How
incredibly humbling that must have been for you. And now here we are, watching
it play out all over again. Lol!One of the elite group of schools in
the nation??? LOL!!! Your recruiting numbers are evenly matched with BYU's.
If you are elite so is BYU. LOL. 2 years of losing football with a third on the
way makes you elite? Welcome to Utes reality everyone.
@idaho cougar fanUmmm, your Cougars have lost 4 straight to Utah.
Why didn't you mention that? Welcome to reality.
@SpokaneUteUmmm, your Cougars have lost 4 straight to Utah. Why
didn't you mention that? Welcome to reality.I know we have.
That is true reality. Also true reality, BYU is more relevent then Utah is. If
you look on my last posts I never mentioned that BYU was elite, I just said we
are still more relevent than the bottom feeder Utes. BYU is filet mignon and
Utah is hot dogs.
idaho cougar fanTwin Falls, ID"One of the elite group of
schools in the nation??? LOL!!! Your recruiting numbers are evenly matched with
BYU's. If you are elite so is BYU. LOL. 2 years of losing football with a
third on the way makes you elite? Welcome to Utes reality everyone."Only a byu fan could take that comment and spin it into something that
pertained to sports. This is exactly the reason that byu is in the pickle
it's in today. Nothing but sports for byu and it's faithful
followers. It's a shame too, because most of the elite conferences are
about so much more. The Pac-12 certainly is.Oh, well...rise and
All you have to do is see how BYU plays the power conference schools, especially
recently. Disappointing losses by 2 or more possessions. And I'm not
talking about super power schools. I'm talking the middle of the road
power schools.Utah lost by ONE point to a middle-to upper Arizona
State. They beat Stanford who would later play in a BCS bowl. They lost by one
possession to Oregon State and to UCLA. (BYU had a three-possession defeat to
Oregon State the year before).Face it Cougar Fans. Your program is
NOT the same it was twenty years ago. It has taken a big step backwards. The
Utes have the growing pains of adjusting to life in a tougher conference, which
they are starting to do well. No curb stompings like two years ago.While it is true that the last two years BYU wouldn't have to win any
games to make it to the same type of bowl as Utah, when Utah wins six games BYU
would have to win ten games to make that type of bowl. When Utah wins eight
games, BYU would have to run the table.
@ idaho cougar fanThe ACC and SEC beg to differ as to whether BYU is
relevant or not. And yes, the PAC-12 is one of the elite groups of schools in
the nation. Utah is an equal member of the group. I don't understand why
you are trying to argue that point.
Clark W. Griswold:Don't forget about that UTEP game back in
1985 where the Y provided the Miners their sole win of the season.
@ Rose Bowl call yet?Utah would be more than good enough to qualify
for a bowl if they played a mid-major schedule. If Utah and BYU switched
schedules last year, UVA, MTSU, ISU, and Nevada are four virtually guaranteed
wins. Add in wins over USU and BYU and just like that, Utah is already bowling
with a chance to win 2-3 more. Do the same for BYU and I see 7 losses to Utah,
UCLA, Stanford, Zona, USC, ASU, and Oregon. I could see BYU beating Washington
St., and Oregon St., but I wouldn't be shocked if BYU lost both of those
games as well.
Amazing. I went and observed the number of people commenting on the
"prestigious and relevant Utes" articles and the number tops the high
teens. I come to the irrelevant BYU articles and see 100+ comments and so many
comments by ute fans. Can't help but laugh at Utah's inability to let
BYU go. Already looking forward to ASU's built in win on November 1st. We
did that so as to give us a warm up game in which to rest our starters to help
prepare ASU to play a real team (Notre Dame) the following week. Go
Devils! (notice no bragging about conference affiliation)
As a Ute fan, I remember that when Colorado was trying to join the Big XII back
in the 60s they played as many Big XII opponents as possible. That wouldn't
be a bad idea for BYU to start there. As I see it the Big XII is still a long
way off, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if SMU got an invite before the
Cougars at this point. BYU should focus on getting home and homes with KU, KSU,
Texas Tech, and Iowa State to start with. Give Baylor a call. I know that Baylor
has been pretty good lately but not many schools want to travel to Waco, and
Mormon-Baptist might be interesting. Those are get-able games for the Cougs.
clark"BYU got SHUT OUT by Utah 3-0 in 2003. BYU got beaten by
10-loss Virginia 19-16 - a team BYU had no business losing, but did!"Nice try, but a 4-8 team losing 3-0 to a 21st ranked, 10-2 team
doesn't even come close to the embarrassment of a 9-4 team, that had just
pummeled UCLA 44-6, getting shut out by lowly 10-loss UNLV, a team that only
beat one other team all season, 10-loss Utah State.BYU's loss
to Virginia came on the road in the opening game of the season with a starting
QB who was returning from season-ending knee surgery, mixed in with a 2-hour
lightning delay in the 2nd quarter. Even so, BYU had the game won until a
tipped, rain-soaked ball was intercepted late in the game, giving Virginia a
gift touchdown.Compare that to Utah with a gift-wrapped PAC South
there for the taking in the final regular season game, getting dominated, at
home, in the first half by a team that hadn't won a road game in three
years.Once again, when it comes to laying eggs, NOBODY compares to
navelvetOnce again, Utah fans have to resort to ancient history with
UTEP 1985.Unfortunately for U, the similarities stop there.BYU redeemed themselves by finishing 10-3, ranked #16/#17, with a close 10-7
loss to #14/#11 Ohio State in the Citrus Bowl.Utah 2007 and 2011
proved once again just how mediocre they've always been, beating another
mediocre team in a bowl, finishing 8-5 and unranked, as usual.
twofer"If Utah and BYU switched schedules last year, UVA, MTSU,
ISU, and Nevada are four virtually guaranteed wins. Add in wins over USU and BYU
and just like that, Utah is already bowling with a chance to win 2-3
more."NOPEA team that lost to lowly 6-7 Washington
State after an entire season to prepare,would have lost at Virginia,
to Texas, coin flip with BYU, at Utah State, to Georgia Tech, at Houston, to
Boise State, at Wisconsin, and at Notre Damewith probable wins
versus Middle Tennessee State, versus Idaho State, and at Nevada,to
finish 4-8 or 5-7.
@Rose Bowl "when comes to laying goose eggs, NOBODY beats the U: SHUT OUT
by 10-loss UNLV - 0-27... Beaten AT HOME by 10-loss Colorado - a team that
hadn't won a road game in four years.You do realize that BYU
lost to UNLV a few years prior to Utah's loss. Regarding Utah's loss
to Colorado, did I hear somebody say 2-10 Virginia? Yes that same Virginia
whose only other win came against the mighty Virginia Military Institute.
BleedCougarBlue,Of all those great wins you mentioned (Oklahoma,
Texas, Miami, Pittsburgh and UCLA), only the 1990 Miami team finished the year
ranked. So those weren't really great wins after all. In fact Pitt went
3-7-1.Other than Miami and Kansas State, what P5 teams that finished
the season ranked has BYU beat?
@ SportsFanAre you suggesting the Utah spent the entire season
preparing for only the Wazzu game? Washington St. was not a bad team last
season. They finished ranked 40th. Plus Utah was without their starting QB by
the time the WSU game rolled around. Virginia finished ranked 106,
MTSU 103, Nevada 98, and Utah actually did beat BYU and USU, so no coin flipping
necessary. GT, UH, and Boise are all winnable games for the U as well.
@soonerutePlease tell me where the qualifications to get into a big
5 conferance are and what Utah did to get there! No such list exists. If
getting into a BCS bowl or winning one is a qualification why didn't Utah
get in back in 04? Why is Boise St still on the outside looking in. Because
ther are no such qualifications and Utah did not meet any such imaginary
qualification. They simply got invited. Just like TCU, and Louisville before
them. What qualifies an Iowa St, Washington St, Colorado, Mississippi St, Ole
Miss, Kansas, Maryland, Virginia, etc. the list goes on and on. What makes
them more special than a Boise St or BYU? Show me the qualifications on paper.
They do not exist. It is a bunch of elitists that want to keep others out so
they can hoard money. Nothing more.
@CrowKeep living that dream. Make big dollars to be Oregon and
USC's doormat. You traded winning for money. Congrats. Dream on.
I think the term mid major should be applied to all the big 5 programs that
really do not have any real chance at a championship. They are in major
conferance sand mid tier in those conferance sat best. We could even call teams
like Utah lower majors.
twoferAs Utah's loss AT HOME to lowly 107th ranked Colorado in
2011 and Utah's shut out loss at the hands of 120th-ranked UNLV proves, the
Utes are capable of losing to ANYBODY, home or away.The fact that
K-Whit hasn't had the foresight to develop a capable backup QB for most of
his tenure at Utah is no excuse.Utah has never beaten Houston or an
FCS Boise State team, and the Utes lost to Utah State in Logan in 2012 and
nearly lost to the Aggies at home in 2013.When was the last time a
Utah team qualified for a bowl while playing a Top 40 schedule?Hint:
It's NEVER happened.Your bold prediction of Utah being a sure
fire bowl eligible team IF the Utes had played BYU's schedule is nothing
but hot air.
ESPN's Way-too-early bowl projections:BYU vs Cincinnati or
Tulane in the Miami Beach BowlUSU vs Arizona in the Las Vegas Bowl or Rice
in the Hawaii BowlUtah vs chip dip in the couch potato chip bowl
twoferUtah had three full months of practices and four full games to
break in a backup QB after Wilson was injured, yet couldn't beat Washington
State - a team that lost to Colorado St - to finish 6-6, BARELY eligible for a
bowl, although there was little chance any bowl would have been interested in
Snack,The way too early SOS projections for 2014: #1 Utah#80 USU#81 BYUCongrats BYU will be going to a bowl game
again in '14 on the backs of Savannah State, UNLV, Middle Tennessee, UConn,
Nevada, Cal and Virginia. If Utah had these 7 cupcakes on the schedule we all
know they would be a lock to go bowling too.Utah's performance
vs. in-state opponents over past dozen years9-3 vs BYU11-1 vs Utah
State20-4 OverallWith two BCS bowl appearances in the past 10
years, we all know which program dominates the state of Utah in football...
it's not even close
@ SportsFan Playing a whole season against a "big boy"
schedule has definitely taken its toll on Utah. That is especially true for
2011. UNLV was a bad loss, but it happened in 2007. That's seven years
ago. Utah is a completely different program than it was seven years ago, which
makes that point null and void. I won't argue that QB's
were mishandled by the Utah coaching staff. However, I do think people are
making it worse than it is. Utah had a back up in Corbin Louks, but he
transferred to UNR in 2009. Utah lost a few QB's in recruiting battles,
and had some really bad luck with Jordan Wynn, who looked really promising after
his Freshman season.Utah hasn't even played Houston since 1978,
so I don't see why that means Utah wouldn't be able to beat them
today. Also, Utah has beaten an FCS Boise team in 1985 and 1987. Utah
hasn't beaten an FBS Boise team though.Utah won 5 games with
the third ranked SOS. Logic tells me that the Utes would be able to scrape
together at least one more win with the 38th ranked schedule.
Despite all of the cherry picking spin from the hill about how "great"
the Utes have been against top competition, lifetime achievement shows just how
mediocre the Utes have really been:AP Top 25BYU 17, Bronco
4Utah 5, Kyle 211+ Win SeasonsBYU 11, Bronco 3Utah
2, Kyle 1If U were really anywhere close to as good as U pretend to
be, the Utes would have had far more than TWO 11+ win seasons and FIVE AP Top 25
finishes in 120 seasons of football (since 1894).
xamRemind us the last time Utah won a road game against a PAC 12
team with a winning record.It doesn't really mean much when you
pull off an upset win at home versus Stanford, when you're not even good
enough to beat Washington St on the road to keep your slim bowl hopes alive.
@ xamYou are spot on. BYU fans constantly refer to the USC's,
Oregeon's and Washington's of the world to do what they can't;
beat Utah. They never, ever mention their head to head games vs. Utah. It must
be sad being on the outside looking in; which is exactly what BYU is. I also
love of certain fans act like Utah sold out for the money. Please! BYU would
have jumped at the opportunity to play in the PAC 12, but they didn't get
the invite. No power conference is going to take a team that dictates what days
they will and will not play on. That's the cold hard facts! The seperation
between the have and have nots in college football is growing and it's
apparent which side BYU is on; the little kids table.
xamOnce again the Utes will spend bowl week on the couch polishing
their SOS trophy, while watching BYU play in their 10th straight bowl.Frankly, nobody outside of the Wasatch Front cares about your recent instate,
close wins by the skin of your teeth "supremacy", when you're not
even good enough to qualify for a bowl.
xamWith TWICE as many AP Top 25 finishes and THREE times as many 11+
win seasons, it's obvious which Utah team has dominated on a national scale
and overall during the Bronco/Kyle era... it's not even close.btw, the 8-4 Big Least Pittsburgh team that Utah beat in the Fiesta Bowl was
only slightly better (if that) than the 8-5 Oklahoma and Texas teams BYU beat in
2009 and 2013.You could easily make the argument that both Oklahoma
2009 and Texas 2013 were BETTER than Pittsburgh 2004, the ONLY decent team Utah
beat in 2004.
2fer"Logic tells me that the Utes would be able to scrape
together at least one more win with the 38th ranked schedule."Actually, logic says just the opposite. Utah finished 5-7 in 2012 with the
41st ranked schedule, so logic says that Utah would have finished 5-7 or worse
in 2013 with the 38th ranked schedule.It's funny how Utah fans
like to point to 2004 and 2008 as the "true" state of Utah football,
while completely ignoring the fact that Utah has historically been a mediocre to
bad football program - only 6 WAC/MWC/PAC championships in the last 52 years,
and only 5 AP Top 25 finishes and only 2 11+ win seasons in your entire history
is proof of that.Stop blaming SOS for your mediocrity. You
weren't any good even when you were playing WAC/MWC schedules.
Spokane Ute14 of the last 17 BYU-Utah games have been decided by a
touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime.The fact
that Utah has won a slight majority of those close games (8 of 14), hardly
proves any sort of "dominance".To see what
"dominance" really looks like, see 1972 to 1991, when BYU won 18 of 20
and was destroying Utah by scores of 56-6 and 27-0, but was also dominating the
conference, and perennially finishing in the Top 20.
Spokane UteOverall, which team was better in 2013, Utah or
Stanford?Answer the question honestly, and you'll see why one
game does not a season make.
Rockwell,Beating up on a bunch of patsies and losing to mediocre and
struggling P5 schools makes a season for byu.That's "why
BYU won't count in the plus one for the ACC and SEC’".
phoenixGilbert, AZxamOnce again the Utes will spend bowl
week on the couch polishing their SOS trophy, while watching BYU play in their
10th straight bowl.Frankly, nobody outside of the Wasatch Front
cares about your recent instate, close wins by the skin of your teeth
"supremacy", when you're not even good enough to qualify for a
bowl.__________BYU is so desperate about qualifying for
a bowl, they sign up for one years in advance. But first they need to beat the
"band of buddies" to get there. Attempting to beat ranked teams is
not enough. You can hardly schedule any in one season.
AFCoug Because ther are no such qualifications and Utah did
not meet any such imaginary qualification. They simply got invited. Just like
TCU, and Louisville before them. What qualifies an Iowa St, Washington St,
Colorado, Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Kansas, Maryland, Virginia, etc. What
makes them more special than a Boise St or BYU? Show me the qualifications on
paper. They do not exist. It is a bunch of elitists that want to keep others out
so they can hoard money. Nothing more._____________What
qualifies those schools to be "elitist?" They must be honored to be
called that. Those schools were already in power conferences before BYU went on
it's four decade dominance of WAC legacy. TCU is on it's second go
around.If it was indeed elitist, the schools mentioned would not be there,
don't you think? So there must be other reasons why. It's more than
sports.Using your example above - BYU is elitist and hoarding
it's TV contract money. Won't give it up or share to join a
conference. Nothing more.
Snack PACOlympus Cove, UtahESPN's Way-too-early bowl
projections:BYU vs Cincinnati or Tulane in the Miami Beach BowlUSU vs Arizona in the Las Vegas Bowl or Rice in the Hawaii BowlUtah vs
chip dip in the couch potato chip bowl____________Every
sportswriter's projection, not too early-not to late.BYU will
still be on the outside looking in.BYU vs whatever teams will take
them.BYU considered lesser program by power conferencesBYU does not
even qualify to join the Big Sky Conference. How dare they! What a bunch of
@WACPaddingOurSchedule"BYU is so desperate about qualifying for
a bowl, they sign up for one years in advance. But first they need to beat
the"band of buddies" to get there. Attempting to beat ranked teams
is not enough. You can hardly schedule any in one season."I
thought someone from Idaho would have a little more sense. The schedule is
getting much better after this year, but lets not even go to years in advance
stuff. Yes BYU has to watch after themselves, but at least we are confident we
will be in a bowl. Can't say the same for the Utes.
@ Lonestar runnerCongrats on your close loses. You must be so proud.
Also, nice job of driving your time machine to fit your agends. Well done!@ RockwellUtah was better when they played, Stanford had a
better season. Who was better on any other point of the season is merely
conjecture. Why are you bringing Stanford into the conversation? Conversely, who
was better when Utah and BYU played. Overall who was better?
At PhoenixNo one cares about BYU playing in a lowly bowl. BYU is
becoming an after thought in college football. Simply ask the ACC or SEC. The
dividing line between the have and have nots is becoming very clear. Not
Utah's fault; that's just the way it is. I would rather play a
difficult schedule and have the sky as the limit for post season; as opposed to
play a weak schedule and know that whether you win 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11 games,
the destination is the same.
@Spokane Ute"No one cares about BYU playing in a lowly bowl. BYU
is becoming an after thought in college football."And so is
Utah. Don't give me that excuse that "at least we are in a power
conference." So are Indiana, Northwestern, Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt,
Iowa St., WSU, Utah, Colorado and Arizona's of the world. Tell me the last
time these guys mattered on a long term bases? Tell me which one of these teams
has had long term success in their conferences? In fact even visit some of the
bigger schools. In the Pac 10.2 when is the last time a team other than Oregon,
Stanford or USC has won the Pac 10.2? Utah lives by the "We are in the
conference of champions" chant, yet they are doormats in the conference.
Utah is now more an after thought then BYU is. Why do you think the Pac 10 let
them in? Now the Pac 10 is sure Utah won't take a piece of the pie like
they did twice in the last decade.
idaho cougar fan,6 wins for Utah puts them in a better bowl than an 11 win
byu. So, who's the afterthought?
Spokane UteInjuries happen.BYU lost their two projected
starting corners less than a week into fall camp, plus BYU's starting QB
was just returning from season-ending knee surgery after only starting 3 games
his Freshman season. BYU also sustained numerous injuries to other key players
throughout the season, yet BYU still qualified for a bowl playing the 38th
ranked schedule. So stop using injuries as an excuse.The
simple truth is, nobody cares how good you might have been IF Wilson hadn't
been injured.The only thing that matters is you weren't good
enough to beat Washington St when Utah's bowl hopes were on the line.Bottom line:Despite the loss to Utah, BYU was still good
enough to qualify for a bowl playing a tougher schedule than any schedule Utah
had played in their entire history, prior to 2013.Despite the win
over BYU in 2012, Utah still wasn't good enough to qualify for a bowl
playing the 41st ranked SOS.If U can't handle the heat, maybe U
should get out of the kitchen. U obviously aren't good enough to compete in
a big boy conference.
@ LonestarRunner2013 Utah and 2012 Utah are not the same team. Utah
was a better team than it was in 2012, but the level of competition also rose,
which is why Utah finished 5-7 again. Likewise, Utah is a FAR better team than
it was back in he MWC/WAC days. The reason for Utah's struggles is 100%
due to the strength of teams the Utes are playing week in and week out. Just
like TCU (who also ate BYU's lunch) the Utes are trying to build the depth
and find the speed it takes to compete in a P5 conference. Look at
the last four MWC seasons vs. the first few P5 seasons:Utah: (MWC
2007-2010) 9-4, 13-0, 10-3, 10-3 / (PAC-12) 8-5, 5-7, 5-7TCU: (MWC
2008-2011) 11-2, 12-1, 13-0, 11-2, / (Big 12) 7-6. 4-8.Answer
honestly, why do you think the number of wins decreased after the transition to
u-pac"I know you feel grateful that Dr. Hill showed mercy to BYU
by not scheduling the Y for this season and next."The only
program Hill was showing mercy to was his own, which he knew wasn't good
enough to handle playing Michigan and BYU in the same season (his own words,
look it up).Unfortunately for U, the Utes won't even have their
September bowl to look forward to the next two seasons.Enjoy the
pillow fight in the rockies - it's the only thing you've got to look
forward to at the end of the season after going 4-5, 3-6, 2-7...
Thank you all for the comedy routine. I especially enjoy U fans touting
dominance in basketball based on one win. Whoa Nellie - The U has had the
Y's number in football recently, but not basketball.As a BYU alum and
lifelong fan, am I concerned about the current state of affairs? Yes. Do I think
the end is near? No, but BYU really does need to get into a conference. I
thought independence would work, but the scenery has changed. Is college
football done changing? No. Does BYU still have an opportunity? Yes. The most
important thing BYU has to do is win. Would I rather have BYU be in the U's
position? For the most part, yes. I would love to be in one of the "P5"
conferences. Maybe I'll end up wrong and independence will eventually work,
but I'd rather be in the Big 12. Do what ever it takes (sans Sunday play)
to get into the Big 12 BYU
@ekuteGood luck with that.
Uteanymous,"pillow fight in the rockies", and byu isn't
good enough to be considered even for that.Enjoy loosing your
biggest game of the year, once again, at home to an instate opponent. lol.
idaho CougarI don't recall making any excuses so please refrain
from putting words in my mouth. All of the schools you mention have the
potential to go to bowls that BYU will never, ever have the oppotunity to play
in. I'm sorry that Utah's membership gives them far more advanteges
and opportunities then BYU get's by being independent; but it's the
truth. Actually I stand corrected, I'm not sorry at all; just stating the
truth. The PAC 12 let Utah and Colorado in for a number of reasons. BYU was left
out, and always will be, because no major conference is going to let a new comer
tell them what days they will, and will not play on: among other reasons. You
sure seem angy. Take a deep breath, just s civil debate; at least from my end.
It would be interesting who the odds makers would give the edge to between BYU
and Utah in reaching the playoffs first. Each team has long odds, but does Utah
really have that much better odds. First win the South, once at best every 8
years. Then win the championship game, at best every other time they make it
(every 16 years.) Then hope that 2 SEC teams don't get in if you happen to
have a 10-3 year. Chances are slim that Utah goes 11-2 or 12-1 with their
schedules. Again, Arizona has been in the Pac 10.2 for 30-40 years and has never
made it to the Rose Bowl. So that is being optimistic. BYU, string 3 or 4 one
loss to undefeated seasons together with our easier schedules and have a chance.
Future schedules will have 3 good teams, 3 average teams and 6 winnable games so
it is possible.
At RockwellI didn't make any excuses regarding injuries; but
you certainly did. Utah got outplayed and lost to the schools you menition. I
never made an excuse, they beat us fair and square. How come you didn't
answer my quesiont? Let's stick to the topic at hand. Who played the
tougher schedule last year? Who was ranked higer per the Sagarin rankings at
season's end? Who won on the field last year? You also seem to be getting
very upset. Relax, just stating my opinion. While we are on the one
game doesn't make a seaon topic; who was better BYU or Texas? Do
tell....and take a deep breath!
KaladinNice post. Well thought out and pretty dang accurate. The
fact of the matter is that neither Utah, nor BYU have impressed in football the
past few years. I know 5-7 is certainly dissapointing to me.
@Spokane Ute"You sure seem angy. Take a deep breath, just s
civil debate; at least from my end."I am not angry, just amused
how much Utah fans justify their acceptance in the "P5" and beat their
chest on how much more superior they are to BYU. Funny that a BYU article has
150+ comments. Half of them from Utah fans (or trolls). Why are Utah fans so
enamored about anything BYU? I don't even know the last time I read a Utah
article let alone commented on it. All the comments made by Ute fans show that
BYU still matters and the UofU not so much.
u-pac"Sir, maybe BYU should start to be competitive with the PAC
12 Utes in the 21st century..."BYU has beaten UCLA 59-0, Oregon
38-8, OSU 41-20, Washington, Washington State, Arizona and Utah during the
Bronco/Kyle era (I'm pretty sure that's during the 21st century).Bronco has finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR times.Kyle has only
managed the same feat TWICE.Bronco has had THREE 11+ win, Top 15
Finishes.Kyle has only had ONE.Who has really been competitive
on a national scale, and who has only been a one-hit wonder?
per Idaho cougar"BYU still matters and the UofU not so
much".Actually the title and content of the article lead one to
believe it's the other way around. Utah is set with it's PAC 12
membership; but really needs to take advantage of it. 5-7 stinks, regardless of
schedule strength or conference affiliation. My initial point was that college
football is dividing into the haves and have nots. The power 5 conferences and
Notre Dame are seperating from the other schools. BYU and the MWWC are on the
fringe, at best. Not be-littling BYU, just stating the trend in college
football. BYU really needs to position it self to join the Big 12; or get left
behind. (IMO) Have a good evening and feel free to comment on Utah articles any
time you wish. It's an open forum and just thing how boring it would be
without a differing opinion. Take Care Guy!
2fer"Look at the last four MWC seasons vs. the first few P5
seasons:"That's far too small a sample size to determine
any sort of "trend".Looking at Utah's record over the
last 20 years shows a brief spike in 2004 and 2008, with lots of mediocrity
before, after, and in between.Utah has been in steady decline since
2008, BEFORE Utah joined the PAC 12.
Spokeane Ute"No one cares about BYU playing in a lowly
bowl."Yet you care enough about BYU that you love to post on
their articles in an attempt to belittle them. I would think the utes would have
"bigger fish" to worry about. How about you worry about having a winning
record in conference play and winning a conference road game before you worry
about BYU. As far as the other teams in the PAC 12 are concerned, Utah = BYU.
But then, at least BYU has been to consecutive bowl games.
LonestarRunnerSalt Lake City, UTSpokane Ute14 of
the last 17 BYU-Utah games have been decided by a touchdown or less in the
closing minutes or in overtime.The fact that Utah has won a slight
majority of those close games (8 of 14), hardly proves any sort of
"dominance".-------------Wrong. During the era that just ended, the BCS era:* Utah is 10-6 (63%)
vs BYU* Utah's average win margin: 13 points per game* BYU's average win margin: 4 points per game* The last time
BYU beat Utah by more than a TD was 18 years ago.* The last time BYU
actually beat Utah without Utah chocking (aka BYU miracle) was 13 years ago.
@CougarSunDevil As far as the other teams in the PAC 12 are concerned,
Utah = BYU. But then, at least BYU has been to consecutive bowl games.---------As far as bowl games ASU = Fresno State.Over
the last 16 years ASU is 3-7 in bowl games, Utah is 10-1 with 2 BCS bowl wins
and our only loss was to a #9 Boise State team.
Years ago I called BYU and their fan base the Crybabies of the Wac. Nothings
changed, you still whine and cry, about almost everything. Your arrogance and
baggage are a big part of what's going on with the other conferences.
BYU's panic when the Utes were invited to the Pac-12 reallyput you on a bad
road.Stop worrying about Utah and try to right your own ship!
As a neutral observer with no skin in the game, it appears to me that Utah in
the PAC 12 is doomed to be like Washington State…located in a small,
provincial community with limited resources (compared to other PAC 12 schools)
and horrible winters. Recruiting definitely tougher to get an athlete to SLC
than say LA, Tempe, Berkely, Seattle. Main surprise to me is how well Oregon
has managed recently given the problems associated with Eugene.
This whole question has been pushed so far by the ACC and the SEC that I
can't see how this whole situation doesn't eventually get sorted out
in court... In fact, some would say that it already has been sorted out and that
the P5's are acting illegally according to adjudicated law... Burciaga
-SCOTUS Ruling (OU and UGA vs NCAA and ABC Sports)....BYU has been
far too accommodating and has focused too much on Political Correctness...At some point I suspect that schools such as BYU, Boise State, Northern
Illinois, UCF, Houston, Cincy will have no real choice but to test the
exclusionary actions of these P5 Conferences to determine if they in fact can be
exclusionary... 50% of the P5 schools will match up poorly as far as performance
history on the field, and about 50% of those schools will also match up poorly
when examining and comparing the individual schools investments in facilities,
travel expenses, etcThis is a financial issue when it's all
said and done and the P5 folks Exclusions will not bode well when mapping it out
against the Burciaga- SCOTUS Ruling...Just an opinion, but I believe
it is on target.
Quality of play and quality of opponents prevent an independent BYU from being
considered a peer school to the P5. Scream and howl, but BYU is a mid tier
school, as it showed with its competitive loss to Virginia. With the amount of
money that the P5 schools make, BYU will likely struggle to keep up with the
Joneses over time. Our neighbor, lowly Colorado, made almost $20 million from
the PAC 12 last year and started on a $143 million facility 2 weeks ago. They
have a history of winning, shot down in the last decade by under charging
walkons for meals (6 scholarships NCAA penalty) and very bad coaching.
Washington State, Arizona and Oregon State also got almost $20 million. Utah,
only $10 million plus for 1 more year. They all recruit where BYU recruits.
The scholarship changes that will be allowed for P5 schools will cost big money,
and the BYU ESPN contract isn't enough. Will a religious school take money
from its ecclesiastic mission to get better recruits? As a member, I hope not.
Especially with the likely NCAA violations. I smile at the cat fight type posts
with Utah. But this is BYU vs the entire P5. Without a P5 affiliation???
UteologyYour "averages" are skewed (I assume you understand
the term) by 3 lopsided games.In the 14 of 17 games decided by a
touchdown or less, since 1997:Average score:BYU 20.1Utah
21.0Average margin of victory:BYU +4.0Utah +4.6----------------u-pacBefore obsessing about
head-to-head, Utah should first try to become competitive with BYU on a national
scale.When was the last time Utah had three straight AP Top 25
finishes?When was the last time Utah had back-to-back 11+ win seasons?When was the last time Utah had a national award winning player?Nationally relevant facts are ignored on the hill, for obvious reasons.BYU first cracked the AP poll in 1977, 53 seasons after BYU began
playing football. Utah first cracked the AP poll in 1994, 100
seasons after Utah began playing football.By 1994, BYU had already
been ranked in the AP poll ELEVEN times.At Utah's current rate
of ONE AP Top 25 finish every 15.6 years (since 1936), it'll take the Utes
187 years just to match BYU's current SEVENTEEN AP Top 25 finishes.Lifetime 11+ win seasons:BYU 11Utah 2
coolhead55"BYU is a mid tier school, as it showed with its
competitive loss to Virginia."It's laughable that you chose
to completely ignore BYU's complete DOMINATION of Texas, one of the
blue-bloods of college football, the very next week - 550 yards rushing, the
most rushing yards ever given up by the Longhorns in their entire history.When was the last time Utah rolled up 550 rushing yards against anybody,
let alone one of the college football's elite programs?Arizona
has been earning PAC money for 35+ years, and the Wildcats are still looking for
their first Rose Bowl.Despite the whiny spin of the naysayers, BYU
will be invited to the playoffs, before Utah plays in its first Rose Bowl.Mark it Down!
Uteology"Over the last 16 years ASU is 3-7 in bowl games, Utah
is 10-1..."How many of Utah's bowl winning teams were good
enough to be ranked in the final AP Top 25?Not counting the
playoffs, 72 teams will play in bowls in 2014-15. More than 50 of
those teams won't even be ranked.One mediocre team beating
another mediocre team doesn't prove much, even if it is in a bowl.
Just the FAXNow you're really being unfair, expecting the Utes
to prove that they're more than a twin flash-in-the-pan, by winning
consistently over the course of several seasons.Of course, for a
program that couldn't consistently beat teams like Wyoming, New Mexico,
UNLV and Colorado State, even during their brief heyday of 2003 to 2009,
consistently beating teams like Colorado and Washington State is a tall order.
@Just the FAXOlympus Cove, UtahUteologyYour
"averages" are skewed (I assume you understand the term) by 3 lopsided
games.------------Yes, I think I do understand the term.
Let me try to use it in a sentence:BYU got skewed! Not once, not
twice, by three times.You mean you want to ignore 30% of Utah's
most dominate wins or 20% of the sample size to prove that Utah hasn't
skywalkerPalo Alto, CAUteology"Over the last
16 years ASU is 3-7 in bowl games, Utah is 10-1..."How many of
Utah's bowl winning teams were good enough to be ranked in the final AP Top
25?------------Not many since we beat most of them,
while BYU lost to most opponents. FACT: During the BCS era, 36% of
Utah’s bowl opponents were ranked in the AP top 25 and 55% in the AP top
30.FACT: Over the same period, 27% of BYU’s bowl opponents
were ranked in the AP top 25 and 36% in the AP top 30 (55% in top 35)The difference, Utah went 10-1 (91%) and BYU 7-6 (54%).
@royalblueOf course, for a program that couldn't consistently
beat teams like Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV and Colorado State, even during their
brief heyday of 2003 to 2009, consistently beating teams like Colorado and
Washington State is a tall order.-----------------Utah
hasn't lost to a team like UNLV since 2007, finished 45-6 (88%) in the MWC
and 8-1 (89%) since then against similar teams. The SIX of 7 loses were to
ranked teams, the other at AP #26 Notre Dame.Over that period, Utah
has ZERO losses to teams like 2013 BYU, @Houston, Middle Tennessee, Idaho State,
@Nevada, Boise State, and @Utah State.
Uteology"As far as bowl games ASU = Fresno State.Over the last 16 years ASU is 3-7 in bowl games, Utah is 10-1 with 2 BCS bowl
wins and our only loss was to a #9 Boise State team."With MWC
teams padding those stats, good job. ASU isn't very good in the post season
for some reason, so what. How has Utah's post season been the last two
years? How has utah's games against ASU head to head been in the last 3
decades? I'll answer for you, not good and not one win against ASU since
1976. Ute fans like statistics, I have some for you. Utah's win
percentage against ASU in the 80's zero Utahs win percentage against
ASU in the 90's zeroUtah's win percentage against ASU in the
2000's zero. Utahs win percentage against ASU so far in the
2010's zero. Now that is a trend. So if ASU equals Fresno, then
Utah equals New Mexico State. November 1st, ASU's built in win.
Savannah state would be a more formidable foe.
Uteology"How many of Utah's bowl winning teams were good
enough to be ranked in the final AP Top 25?"Nice dodge, but the
question doesn't refer to Utah's opponent's ranking, but to
Utah's ranking.Only 4 of Utah's last 10 bowl winning
teams, less than half, were good enough to be ranked. Most of those Utah teams
wouldn't have even been invited to a in the 70's and 80's, back
when just playing in a bowl was a significant achievement.Bronco
never lost to UNLV, New Mexico, Wyoming or Colorado.Kyle lost to all of
them.Bronco is 9-9 versus PAC 12 teams.Kyle is 13-21.Bronco has beaten Washington and OregonKyle is winless versus Washington
and OregonBronco is 1-0 versus Washington St.Kyle lost to WSU
less than a year ago.Utah hasn't won a road game against a PAC
team with a winning record in almost 20 years.You weren't good
enough to qualify for a bowl in 2012 playing the 41st SOS.What makes
you think you would have qualified for a bowl in 2013 playing the 38th SOS?U can talk the talk, but U sure can't walk the walk.
"Stop worrying about Utah and try to right your own ship!"Says the Ute fan on a BYU article.
UteologyAs with any statistical analysis, trends and patterns are
far more important than individual spikes and dips.As "Just the
FAX" posted14 of the last 17 BYU-Utah games (82%) have decided
by a touchdown or less. In other words, in 82% of the games played since 1997,
the average score:BYU 20.1Utah 21.0and the average
margin of victory:BYU +4.0Utah +4.6For any
objective fan not pushing a biased agenda, that's substantial evidence that
the series has been extremely close for the last 17 years.--------------------------One disturbing trend for U to consider,
Utah's continual downward trend since 2008,2008 #2/#4 13-02009 #18/#18 10-32010 ur/#23 10-32011 unranked 8-5 (4-5)2012
unranked 5-7 (3-6)2013 unranked 5-7 (2-7)Whether U want to
admit it, or not, Utah has been in a continual downward spiral since the Alabama
game, and it began two seasons BEFORE Utah left the MWC.
@ Solomon LeviBronco lost to a 2-10 UVA team, and got blown out by
4-8 USU.Washington of 2010 and Oregon of 2006 are not comparable to
the programs they have today.The year Bronco beat Washington St.
30-6, Utah also beat them by a score of 49-6.That's true about
road wins; hopefully it changes soon.2012 and 2013 were different
years. In that time, Utah's team improved, but the schedule also got much
more difficult which is why Utah had the same record. Had Utah been fortunate
enough to play the 38th ranked SOS in 2013 that Utes would have been bowling.Since 2008 BYU is a combined 1-9 against Utah and TCU. It's well
established that BYU can't compete with these two programs. Both the Utes
and Horned Frogs missed a bowl game due to increased SOS. Can you image what
would happen to BYU if they ever decided to play a big-boy schedule?
"When was the last time Utah rolled up 550 rushing yards against anybody,
let alone one of the college football's elite programs? (TEXAS) "How many players were drafted from that "elite program" ?
@Solomon LeviAlpine, UTUteology"How many of
Utah's bowl winning teams were good enough to be ranked in the final AP Top
25?"Nice dodge, but the question doesn't refer to
Utah's opponent's ranking, but to Utah's ranking.------------During the BCS era, ONE less than BYU but BYU has TWO
less major bowl wins. BYU AP Rankings:2009 #12 11-22008
#25 10-32007 #14 11-22006 #16 11-22001 #25 12-2Utah AP Rankings:2009 #18 10-3 2008 #2 13-0 2004 #4 12-0 2003 #21 10-2
@Solomon LeviBronco is 9-9 versus PAC 12 teams.Kyle is
13-21.-----------Again, for the 1000 time... Bronco also
has a better record vs Big 12 teams compared to TCU's Chris Patterson. I
don't expect you to understand how tough it is to play a P5 schedule.@CougarSunDevil"November 1st, ASU's built in win.
Savannah state would be a more formidable foe."They might if you
played them in December, considering ASU is 3-7 in bowl games regardless of the
level of competition.
@TrueBlueWhether U want to admit it, or not, Utah has been in a
continual downward spiral since the Alabama game, and it began two seasons
BEFORE Utah left the MWC.-------------Are you now going
to use the same logic against TCU?2010 #2 13-0 (MWC)2011 #16
11-2 (MWC)2012 UR 7-6 (Big 12)2013 UR 4-8 (Big 12)Go
ahead and spin it!FACT: Utah and TCU were the top dogs of the MWC,
8-0 vs BYU.
@CougarSunDevilNow that is a trend. So if ASU equals Fresno, then
Utah equals New Mexico State. ----------Except New
Mexico State has as many BCS bowl wins as ASU. If winning in the
MWC is padding your win total then what is getting thumped in bowl games by WAC
teams do to your win total?Boise State L 24-56Hawaii L 24-41
Man, this constant banter between U and Y fans is pretty funny. Both have some
good points (and some really lame ones), but I feel I can take away two things
from all of this:1. Utah hasn't gotten over BYU2. BYU
hasn't gotten over UtahYep, U two deserve each other! I
can't wait for the Holy War to resume in 2016.
@CougarSunDevil"November 1st, ASU's built in win. Savannah
state would be a more formidable foe."Sounds like sour grapes to
me. Savannah State being a more formidable foe? Please. That's not what
you thought praying that your Devils would escape RES with a win. Bitterness
and hatred for the U on full display by ignoramus level comments.Pray that all your Coug/Devil foes will be as "formidable" as Savannah
With the same logic, these schools are petrified of Army, old dominion and NM
State.Do you sleep with a fluffy stuffed mountain lion?Also, why are TCU and Utah now in power conferences? Is it because BYU
doesn't like pie, but utah and TCU do?USC didn't have a problem
serving utah a $10 million slice this past year.
@ekuteThis is where your lack of knowledge of the game and how it is
to play out comes in. Your comment how they are afraid of BYU but not Notre
Dame, is complete ignorance. Notre Dame plays ACC schools in Football for the
basketball affiliation with the conference. No other conference plays ND year
in and year out other than the PAC-10.2, prior to this year it was the Big-10
and that is now going away because of the ACC agreement. It is the same reason
Utah doesn't want to play BYU year in and year out anymore. And it makes
sense. Why play BYU when you can put Fresno State or Idaho State on your
schedule, two guaranteed wins. I know the utes have won 4 straight but many
were close and the potential of a loss is always there, it is more unlikely to
lose to Fresno and if you lose to Idaho St then you should just hang up the pads
on the program. You know it makes sense and so does every other Utah fan on
here. This is why people don't like Utah fans, because of comments liek
@ Elmers Fudd"BYU hides behind the religious discrimination
excuse to justify why they were never invited to join a power conference and
Utah did."This has been said by Stanford and Cal many years ago.
Documented. The PAC picked up Utah and Colorado for the same reasons. It gets
them more exposure of two teams that will not be at the top of the conference as
frequently as they would like. And they now have more appearence and ability to
steal Utah and Colorado recruits. And with proof, more and more Utah recruits
are leaving for other PAC schools other than Utah. Utah is the nerdy friend at
the party that gets invited because his sister is hot.
hahaha this article is exactly why I will never be a BYU fan. And why every
season at BYU will be a failure. These are such ridiculous articles. The first
article this season was about how this is going to be a special season. The
media (desnews) hypes byu up so much that they think that they have a chance.
Add when they aren't good (year after year) there is a stupid excuse or far
fetched justification for their failures.
Right on Jay!