I completely disagree. BYU fans and beat writers, look at the schedules for
2016 before you state your case that all is well. Like I have said before, BYU
has 2 home games scheduled for 2016!! The middle of the schedule is full of
TBD. Who is going to go to LES in Oct? BYU is scrambling to fill a home
schedule for 2016 while everyone else's schedules are complete. Someone do the research and prove me wrong, even possibilities would do. It won't be long before Savannah State makes another trip to
LES.Head in the sand!!
BYU should not take offense at the policy of the ACC and SEC. The Mountain West
Conference saying the same thing is another matter. Now that's a real slap
in the face.
Can't deny the facts. Those are some pretty solid arguments. So what are
other possible reasons behind the snub? History of conference affiliation?
Perception vs reality?
I think those conferences overlooked BYU because they know BYU is good, and now
that they've stated BYU is not a quality opponent, a loss to the Y will do
more damage than good. One only needs to look as far as Miami to see why these
teams don't want to play the Y.
Thank you Mr Robinson for a thorough and well thought out presentation of BYU
football over the last 40 years. Unfortunately the SEC and other Power 5
conferences just don't care. CFB is about money now, not competition on the
field. Just ask such powerhouses as Rutgers and Maryland. CFB is simply becoming
minor league developmental football now...it will be about as amateur as AAA
baseball in the next couple years.As for the SOS argument which is
why these conferences are requiring the extra game against a P5 program,
it's ridiculous that a team can schedule Wazzu or Indiana and that is
thought of as meeting the requirement but BYU isn't. So Kansas will be ok,
but BYU? Nope...what a joke. And don't give us the "well they would
have to exempt BSU or Wyoming too". No...BYU isn't a P5 member but
neither are they a G5 member. They also have a much lengthier history of success
to show stability than any other G5 program. I just want BYU in a conference
again. The independence experiment has been fun but it's obvious it
won't be viable in the long term.
If it would have little impact, why was Tom Holmoe so anxious to meet with the
SEC Commissioner? One school already stated they discontinued talks with BYU to
schedule a series. Yes, it has had and will have an impact.
Teams don't want to schedule the Y, because it's not considered a
quality opponent in the modern era. PhilRM's comment, "One only needs
to look as far as Miami to see why these teams don't want to play the
Y." If you're reaching that far back into the sands of time, then
desperation has already sunk in. Similar to the content of this article,
grasping at straws. Spin it any way you want: playing the Y is not considered a
quality home/road win.A season full of cupcake victories
doesn't stack up much in the grand scheme of things. So you squeaked into
the top 25 by season's end again. You get a star. Go ahead and pat
yourselves on the back, but the reality is, teams are looking for programs who
do more than eliminate the weak opponents year in and year out, but falter to
the big boys more often than not. Just like you advise "little brother"
beat some quality opponents on a consistent basis, and then we'll talk.
spot on by Robinson. if 311ute is so concerned about BYU's 2016 schedule,
maybe he or she can research which Power 5 schools still have openings left for
2016. How many are there - 10 + or 20 + or 30 +? Sure BYU would enjoy the
stability of Pac-12 or Big 12 membership, but just because they don't have
it does not mean the sky is falling.
Now if the Utes can just beat some quality opponents and go to some other bowl
than the "rump on the bump sofa bowl" then we local football fans will
be happy. Better yet if BYU can manage to beat a few more quality opponents
than they have lately we then will be content.
I've said a few times, but it is still true:BYU has only 1 Power
conference school scheduled to come to Provo in the next 3 seasons
(Virginia).You may get a few good road games, but can't get anyone to
come to Provo. There are later a few good teams scheduled to come to Provo
later this decade, but all are after BYU visits there place.Remember BYU
scheduled a 2 for 1 with Notre Dame. BYU went to South Bend 2 years in a row
and Notre Dame now has no plans on coming back to Provo.Other teams could
do same thing.
Notre Dame's leadership has said they plan on fulfilling their 2
commitments to come to Provo. They are just taking their time due to serious
scheduling issues and BYU is graciously giving some patience.
I think the thing with leaving BYU out was based on... well do you start making
exceptions for every high ranking non-P5 school (Northern Illinois for
instance?). Rankings (human or computer) are smart enough to
separate BYU from Akron and schools like Georgia Tech have scheduled BYU
alongside a P5 school (Georgia in GTs case) in a 4 game out of conference
schedule. Even Utah which has no such mandate and only 3 games to
work with but still has a Michigan, Fresno State, and Utah State ooc in 2015.
Ironic since it's devoid of BYU, but that's the sort of set BYU wants
to see from teams and probably will see (on a related not, I just realized Utah
has 11 potentially difficult games that year...). The hard part will be the same
as before, filling out the schedule in weeks where most conferences are locked
into conference play. It does look like some of the PAC games in out years will
help (junctioning them in weeks when USC or Stanford is playing Notre Dame
leaving an odd PAC team out who needs an opponent or a bye).
Des News doing damage control.Robinson states:"They
made one exemption: Notre Dame, an independent, will count as one of those
games, as well.Nobody said anything about BYU, and that was the
problem. Notre Dame received the official anointing of two powerhouse
conferences — but BYU, the other major independent, was ignored."The way this is written makes it appear that ND has exactly the same
status byu does...fully independent. They don't. ND saw the futility of
independence a couple of years ago and did something about it. byu? Still
thinks they don't have to play by rules. byu has no one but
themselves to blame for this mess but the local media is along for ride to keep
the fire stoked.Is independence not everything promised? Who's
to blame for that? Not the SEC or the ACC.
"The ACC and SEC policies will have a minimal impact on BYU. For one thing,
the Cougars rarely play their teams. During the nine-year Bronco Mendenhall era,
the Cougars have played only seven games against ACC schools and one game
against an SEC school (3 wins, 5 losses)."Then why did Holmoe
feel compelled to kick the proverbial hornet's nest? I thought schedule
any team and play anywhere and everywhere was the current byu mantra. There
must be a lot of discontent in cougar nation."During the next
decade, the Cougars are scheduled to play 26 games against 14 Power 5 schools,
and the schedules have not been completed yet, meaning there could be more. The
opponents include Texas, Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, USC, Stanford, Arizona,
Arizona State, Cal and Notre Dame."You left Utah off the
list...Lol. Independence rocks!
As far as openings that other Power 5 conference teams have in 2016, Oklahoma,
Kansas State, Texas Tech, Boston College, Florida State, Clemson, Louisville, NC
State, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Ga Tech, Miami, UNC, Pitt, Rutgers, California,
Washington, Arizona, Colorado, Southern Cal, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky,
Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn,
Mississippi State, Ole Miss, and Texas A&M all have at least one out of
conference opening, some have multiple, and a few like Alabama have yet to
schedule any OOC games for 2016.
Failed Marketing."BYU, the Notre Dame of the West!" was a
big flop along with New Coke, the Ford Edsel, and Sony Betamax. You say
snubbed, but in truth consumers (SEC, ACC, etc) aren't fooled by the new
product. They know that independent BYU is the same as MWC BYU with a higher
cost.Understand your customers. Understand your product.
Understand your capability. Business 101.
Looking back at recent BYU vs ACC schedules:Florida State
(2009-2010): In addition to the annual UF rivalry game, they had Oklahoma in
2010.Virginia(2013-2014): Had Oregon last year, and has UCLA this year.Boston College in 2006 and 2008 had no Big 5 OOC games.Oddly, BC
is one time Bronco had his sights on, but the FSU and UVa schedules would be
totally workable in the new scheme. Much ado about nothing, IMO. If anything,
this opens up more games against the better teams that are also left out, in
addition to Army and Navy, which Bronco has been interested in playing.
Trolls: you make me laugh. You want so much to see BYU fail, you jump on every
rumor and clap your hands with glee. Funny thing is that Utah is failing every
season. I'm sorry, conference bottom feeder is not success.As
for the hysterical BYU fans, I say, again, there is nothing different today.
We'll still play those guys. Do you really think they can fill their
schedules with nobody but themselves? Suppose they do separate from the NCAA and
just play themselves, pay their players, and ignore the other 300 or so
teams?How soon will schools like Utah, WSU, OSU, Iowa, et al. go
broke trying to keep up with the 20 or so rich teams.Not gonna
Wow, I am impressed by the many Ute fans commenting on BYU articles! I doubt Ute
articles receive more BYU fan comments than Ute comments.Thanks for
your time and effort, good to know BYU is still front and center for you!
So many insecure utes on a BYU comment board. Please continue to comment, it
means so much that you care.
"In the last 40 seasons, BYU ranks fourth in total victories with 353. Only
Nebraska, Oklahoma and Ohio State won more games." Those numbers say a lot
about the consistency and success of BYU football. Except 85% of those wins came
against WAC and MWC teams. Stats and numbers tell a lot but they can also be
skewed, inductive, and put into relative context. Case in point;
the whole Top 25 chest pounding thing. In 2011, BYU finished 10-3 and finished
the season in the Top 25. Sounds nice right? Yeah, except BYU was nowhere near
ranked mid season EVEN after coming off two narrow home victories against USU
(last second deflection TD) and Central Florida (who outplayed BYU and self
destructed). Then BYU ran off five straight victories against Idaho, Idaho
State, New Mexico State, Hawaii, and Tulsa to finish 10-3 (not top 25 worthy).
Utah wasn't ranked but beat BYU 54-10 and was 8-5 overall with a PAC 12
schedule (4-5 in the PAC 12 and 4-0 outside of it). The 4 non conference wins
had one weak team (Montana State). Utah crushed BYU and Pitt on the road and
beat Georgia Tech on a neutral site.
1985 SPORT magazine: Go West, BYU! (join the PAC 10). Was anything done
proactively by Glenn Tucket & the BYU admin.? It's safe to say not at
all? The mantra of the BYU admin. (including the UU & USU alums who
didn't have the integrity to represent BYU's best interests) was,
"We're not leaving the comfernce [sic] w/o Utah."Then comes
2011 and Utah says, "So long, Cougars." Who could blame them.Let's see what Holmoe can do w/a bad hand.
I agree that BYU is better than a large number of Power 5 teams and that the
snub by the SEC and ACC is silly for that reason. I disagree that this has
minimal impact. The impact on perception is unfortunately big. The impact on
scheduling remains to be seen.
From the article - The Cougars have winning or .500 records against
Georgia Tech (3-1), Miami (1-1), Pitt (1-1), Michigan (1-0), Wisconsin (1-1),
Baylor (1-1), Oklahoma (2-0), Texas (3-1), Ole Miss (1-0), Texas A&M (2-1),
Missouri (1-0), Washington State (3-1), Cal (2-1), and Oregon (3-3).Somehow, the SEC and ACC missed all of the above when they decided to overlook
BYU._________Somehow the writer and BYU fans miss they
are 3-8-1 All time against Colorado. And 6-11? all time against San Jose St.The win loss records are a silly argument for BYU considering how many years
apart several of the games against the same opponent were.
As someone once said "winning isn't everything its the only thing".
The U was vaulted into the PAC12 conference because it won two BCS games.
Don't ask me how Colorado got invited to the PAC12 because they have been
terrible for years. But to the point - if BYU can win against the big teams -
the UCS's and the ND's and Michigans and Wisconsins then then they
will get invited to a conference but not until. So far BYU has mostly struck
Patriot:If you don't understand why Colorado got in, I can help with
that. Colorado is an AAU institution that resides in the Denver market.
Incidentally Rutgers and Mryland are AAU schools also that reside in large TV
markets. Utah's BCS victories had nothing to do with their PAC12 invite,
anymore than the lack of athletic success hindered Colorado, Rutgers, or
Maryland from their invites. Utah's tier 1 research status and 33rd largest
TV market are the reasons they are in.
It must be very frustrating for Pac 12 Proud Ute fans to have Doug Robinson
raining on the funeral they had planned for BYU football. I remember when BYU
was in one of its darker hours right after Gary Crowton left and Kyle Whitingham
decided to remain at the U. Several of my Ute friends proclaimed that BYU would
never win another MWC championship and that it was the end of the program for
all intents and purposes. Then they went on to win a couple of MWC
championships. BYU football is going to be fine.
Any history older than, say, 5 years is irrelevant here.
@ A1994Yeah, but BYU still probably won't win any MWC
Most power con. teams want to play seven of their twelve games at home for the
money. Lessor teams play more away games for the money because they draw few
fans at home. BYU doesn't have the conference foes that have to split games
each year so filling the home schedule requires lots more Sav. State, Idaho, etc
who will go play at LES for the money. BYU had the ESPN bankroll that let them
go independent and they don't care who the Y plays just so they get weekday
games from them. At the end of the season it is all about the money not who you
I realise that I live far from Utah College Football,and watch a real man's
sport of Rugby League (played it at the highest level) but I find it sad that
the supporters of two relatively mediocre teams should be so determined to knock
the other team and it's supoorters. Why should U of U fans be so bothered
about a BYU team that they won't even be playing for the next couple of
years? It's obvious that BYU has more money, better attraction for
non-conference teams due to the ESPN coverage, and also the LDS members across
the United States turning up to watch a Church team play in their backyard. I
just didn't realise how much it rankles with U of U fans. It seems that
you all have "Small Man Syndrome." (You HAVE to prove that you support
a real team, even though they are a guaranteed win for all other teams in their
Conference.By the way, if you want to watch a real man game, Google
"Rugby League." We run for 80 minutes non stop, hit just as hard as
your lot, and do it without a helmet or pads.
BYU will have to settle for pouring lots of $ into a program that will never get
real national attention or prestige. Or they can accept the inevitable and
eliminate their expensive athletic program and focus on academics and giving
students preparation for real life. That is where BYU can really excel and not
be arbitrarily excluded or sidelined. What in the world does football have to do
with education anyway?
I appreciate Doug's positive attitude but the reality of what is happening
right now in College Football and the affect it will have on BYU if it
doesn't join one of the five Power Conferences sooner than later would
scare anyone who doesn't have their head stuck in the sand. Its easy to
tell everyone to not worry about it, but what is BYU going to tell us, the
devoted BYU fans, after they have bought into their own story and not taken the
steps necessary to join a Major? Its a buyers market right now out there and BYU
better come to grips with that and start dealing with it. Suggestions: With five years remaining on the BYU ESPN deal, offer to join the
Big 12 without participating in Conference revenue shares for the next five
years, or until the next Big 12 TV contract is completed (BYU loses nothing and
gains membership in a Mayor). Stand firm on no Sunday games, but offer to work
with the Big 12 once the ESPN deal has ended on the buyTV Broadcast
So Chris B (wouldn't vote for his as Prez), Beating Texas last year and
Oklahoma a few years ago count as ancient history?Bottom line, these
two conferences are scared to think what would happen if the Y beat them. And I
also wouldn't consider Utah to be anything less than a second tier team in
a supposed "power" conference.
Colorado Buffaloes1990 national championsall-time record
675-463-3623rd on all-time win listOh, and they have a
respectable TV market. Maybe that's how they got into the Pac-12.
My stats prof once remarked that if you put one foot in a pale of cold water and
another in a pale of hot water statistically you will be just right. In reality
we all know that is not true. Doug like much of the BYU faithful has never
learned this principle.Take out the Utah charity game each year or place a
weighting system to BYU's other P5 past opponents and you will come to a
very different set of statistics. The BYU pr department works overtime to make
obscure states state a positive case for BYU. Yes, that is expected of them, but
not from a journalist.
I appreciate the tradition, but what they all want is BYU to conform to their
lack of standards. Not going to happen and independent is going to continue to
equal uphill battle. Money corrupts and will continue to corrupt CFB. The
probability of BYU contending for a National title is far fetched. More and
more programs will drop out of D1 if this continues. Maybe it's time to
lead the way and bring CFB back to what it is supposed to be? Don't let
pride get in the way!
I find it funny that people say that this is the desert news doing damage
control on behalf of BYU. From a personal perspective having Doug Robinson write
the column makes no sense. They should have had Dick Harmon write it. All Doug
does is use the facts. As for me, I love my Utes. Go Utah!
@EJMNobody but cougs take Dick Harmon seriously.
Here's what I know. I've been a season ticket holder and regular
attender for 30 years or so. After the last few years of vaunted independence,
I'm not very excited for the home games. LES is "take it or leave
it" for me. I watch the good games on TV.
@Two For FlinchingBYU isn't in the MWC. So what is your point?
Everyone seems to be missing the fact that since the SEC is only playing 8 games
within their league that opens up 4 for non conference opponents. Even if they
are required to play one of them against their definition of a "quality"
team, that still leaves 3 games that they must schedule. The SEC teams will
schedule one of them against a FCS patsy so they will still need two more games
to schedule. There will still be opportunities.With that being
said, BYU still needs to do all they can to be considered a "quality"
"The fact is the Cougars are better than or equal to many of the teams in
the Power 5 conferences and deserve to be considered a “quality”
team".The "fact is" that currently they may appear to be
equal or better. This is based on their only playing 2-3 teams from the big
conferences each year, each preceded by a week off or one of their usual
patsies. Let them play the week in-week out rigors of a top conference schedule
and then lets proclaim how better or equal they are. Ten win seasons with their
schedule should be a given each year but not necessarily an indicator of how
comparatively good they are.
It seems like the consensus with BYU has always been that they are a step below
the top conferences, why is this news? Just because someone verifies what has
already been common knowledge, now it's news?BYU has much bigger
issues to worry about, like how long they'll be suspended from playing a
bowl game for the recent violations and how many scholarships they'll lose,
than what some conference back east thinks of the Cougars.BYU will be
offering even more of their coveted "preferred walk-on" positions for
local LDS kids to be able to bask in the glory of Roscoe, Kelly, and the rest of
the awesome BYU coaches.
EnglishAlan,You've got to live here to appreciate the dynamics
of this rivalry. To much has happened over the years to explain it in a short
post here, but this rivalry is about much more than just the games played on the
One of the sports events I really looked forwardto when moving to Utah was
the BYU vs UtahFootball game. It has been one of the great rivalries
in college football . I hope this continues.
Mormon Ute:1. Why don't you ask Mr Holmoe why he went to meet
with the SEC commissioner and then tell us all?2. What school
discontinued talks with BYU about scheduling games with BYU? What is your source
- I haven't seen an article about that. Tell us.3. We
don't care what you think about the SEC and ACC snubs affecting BYU. BYU will be just fine.
I chuckle upon seeing the byu faithful, including the author of this article
w/in this article, crow over byu's record against this P5 conference
schools or that one's. Yet, when has byu ever played against a P5-like
conference schedule and played these teams in a back-to-back/week-in week-out
grind? The answer is simple--Never.Play against these teams in the
same manner in which they play against themselves and then you'll be able
to proclaim "equality". Heck, this past season they had all off-season
to prepare for UVA/Had bye-weeks before U/WISC/Had Idaho State before ND/Had
weeks to prepare for a coach-less UW and lost every single one of them, while
never seriously threatening the latter four. Yes, this is precisely why their
SOS finished ranked #38, which happened to finish ranked behind all 12 PAC-12
schools. And this upcoming season's SOS will most likely finish
The Big 12 will have a problem on its hands sooner rather than later.It
only has ten schools and no conference title game. How long will the SEC, PAC
12, ACC & Big Ten put up with a school from the Big 12 that could keep one
of their schools out of the new playoff system?I could see BYU
joining the Big 12 as a football only member. That would eliminate any issues
with no Sunday play with the other sports.
panamadesnewsLindon, UT said:"Mormon Ute:1.
Why don't you ask Mr Holmoe why he went to meet with the SEC commissioner
and then tell us all?2. What school discontinued talks with BYU
about scheduling games with BYU? What is your source - I haven't seen an
article about that. Tell us.3. We don't care what you think
about the SEC and ACC snubs affecting BYU. BYU will be just
fine."Both Clemson and Auburn were allegedly in discussions to
play home and home series with BYU. Those talks have gone nowhere now.
Especially after BYU has been labeled a mid-major by the SEC & ACC. Tried to
find the SI article and post the link. Some sportswriter linked to BYU (outside
of the SLC media market) also talked briefly about it.Now that BYU
has been labeled by the SEC & ACC, expect the other major conferences to
@ImaCaMan, the article clearly states that under Mendenhall, BYU has played an
average of 5.1 p5 schools a year. Since going Indy, that average has risen to
5.7 p5 teams a season. That's just about half of their season, not 2-3
like you suggest.To those who like to entertain the idea that no one
wants to come to Provo because they are not a "quality" opponent, take
your blinders off. No one wants to come to Provo because they know they have a
good chance of losing. Not too many teams win in Provo. Unfortunately, one of
those teams that does win in Provo is the U of U. Lastly, to any
ute fan who thinks byu is not nationally relevant and the utes are, I have spent
the last several years living in New England. Everyone I met knew who byu was,
but most of my acquaintances didn't even know that the U exists let alone
that they had a football team. This was the same year that utah beat Alabama.
Outside of the pac12 the utes are nobodies, just like they always have been.
Byu? Nationally relevant. Sorry trolls.
HowboutthisJAZZ "In nine years under Mendenhall, it’s 5.1 (and 5.7 the
last three years)."How is that possible? In the MWC, teams had
8 conference games against fellow mid-majors. That leaves 4 games to average
5.1 games against majors? That defies the laws of math that I know.But IF the statement were somehow true it shows two things:1) There has
been a .6 advantage to independence. 2) Several P5 teams have schedules
against 10 P5 teams. BYU wants full credit for half the effort.
HowbouthisJAZZSaratoga Springs, UT@ImaCaMan,Lastly, to
any ute fan who thinks byu is not nationally relevant and the utes are, I have
spent the last several years living in New England. Everyone I met knew who byu
was, but most of my acquaintances didn't even know that the U exists let
alone that they had a football team. This was the same year that utah beat
Alabama. Outside of the pac12 the utes are nobodies, just like they always have
been. Byu? Nationally relevant. Sorry trolls.____________There is a difference between relevant and heard about.Anyone that
follows sports knows that the New England States ( and I also say New Your City
included ) are snobby. The sports world revolves around them, and games out west
are late at night on TV for them to watch. In the end, it makes no
difference if people know who BYU is as compared to Utah. For over 40 years BYU
has been heard of, yet they are still on the outside looking in.
Utah vs BYU football rivalry is similar to UCLAUSC or ASU vs Arizona etc.
It is worth preserving.It is the game people look forward to.
I completely disagree! The ACC, SEC, and now the Mountain west doesn't want
to schedule BYU! Tom Holmoe better push the panic button because soon they will
only be able to schedule WAC teams!
Like most fans I wish we were in the Big12 but that seems unlikely to happy. A
couple of view points on scheduling. First, I do not see the P5 schools passing
on the Y if we are considered a lesser team in strength, we're still better
than most of the fill in teams they have and still give them a more power rated
schedule. So come on Big 5 play this inferior team and still receive a good
power rating for doing so and just hope we don't beat you, since we're
inferior!!!!!To all those local Y fans that are concerned about who
is coming to Provo, which is only about 40,000 that can fit in the stadium,
those of us who can't get in or live out of the area--we could care less we
just want to see our team. I can assure you there are more of us than you. So
BYU play all over the country and don't worry about who comes to Provo.
When your in our areas we'll fill the stadium regardless who your playing
and watch on TV every week.
HowbouthisJAZZ:"I have spent the last several years living in
New England. Everyone I met knew who byu was, but most of my acquaintances
didn't even know that the U exists..."I doubt very much
your story. First, I live in Philadelphia, and everybody here not only knows
about Utah football, they knew before they beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. I
went to a Penn State-Oregon State game back in 2008, and all my PSU buddies were
still giddy about Utah beating Michigan earlier that year. Second,
ESPN constantly referred to Utah as the original BCS buster, "giant
killer", and the "winningest team" vs. BCS schools from amongst all
the non-AQs. So if anyone in New England never heard of Utah, they weren't
really college football fans. Third, EVERY state has a flagship
institution. So if anyone never heard of the Univ. of Utah, they're
probably pretty dumb, and don't know our nation's geography.
That's nothing to brag about.(cont...)
HowbouthisJAZZ (cont.):Fourth, and this is without exception, the
only people that I'd ever met that talk about your program........have ALL been fellow members of my Stake/Ward. Furthermore,
in pretty much every place I'd ever lived, LDS folks typically don't
choose to associate with non-LDS folks. So based on MY experiences,
if you're LDS, then that would most likely imply that the majority of your
"inner circle" back in New England would have been fellow LDS. And in
that case, it shouldn't surprise you that they'd be more impressed
with their alma mater than their hated rival to the north who keeps beating them
and upstaging them on an annual basis.Fifth, there are no Y football
fans who had never heard of Utah, nor were unaware that we have a football
program.Basically, your post holds absolutely no ounce of
credibility. It might dupe the locals in Utah County, who rarely -- if ever --
LEAVE Utah County (much less the state of Utah), but to the rest of
Doug Robsinson:You DO realize that 31 of those 55 wins vs. the power
five teams in the Pac-12 were over Ariz, ASU, and Utah BEFORE they joined the
Pac-10/12, don't you? The SEC and ACC weren't concerning themselves
about whether or not the cougars could beat a bunch of other midmajors. They
were more concerned about how well they measured up against bigger competition.
So really, vs. the Pac-12 -- when filtering out the teams who were playing in
the WAC and MWC at that time -- the cougars weren't 55-51 (.519). They
were 24-31 (.436), and that's me including those games vs. CU before they
joined the Pac-12.And that's also if the cougars were to cherry
pick the dates starting from 1972. Because vs. all time, sans any filtering,
the Y is 70-121 (.366). And really, if we're going back to '72, why
not all the way back to '22? Because what do the '72 cougars have
anything to do with the current cougars, or the current era of college football?
That entire staff is long gone.
@Flashback:"Bottom line, these two conferences are scared to
think what would happen if the Y beat them. And I also wouldn't consider
Utah to be anything less than a second tier team in a supposed "power"
conference."Earth to flashback (and other happy valley fans):
not a single team in the land is "scared" of the Y. Happy Valley logic
at its finest.@EnglishAlan:Not going to bash rugby here.
American Football and rugby are both bruising sports. Consider yourself lucky
though, chap. You wouldn't want to get ear-holed by a helmet wearing
possessed grown man sprinting with reckless abandon. Much more damaging than
the body alone, sport.@NavalVet:Your rebuttals to
howboutthisJazz and Doug Robinson were priceless. Keep up the great work!
Naval - I have lived in the south in deep SEC territory. Your observations
about members vs non-members and their "awareness" of Utah and byU
football programs are spot on!Carry on.
Doug Robinson:"During the 29-year LaVell Edwards era, the
Cougars scheduled an average of 4.2 Power 5 schools annually. In nine years
under Mendenhall, it’s 5.1 (and 5.7 the last three years)."Those numbers didn't sound right, so I checked, and sure enough, they
were wrong.If you filter out all the Utah, Ariz, and ASU games the Y
played back when we were in the WAC/MWC, and filter IN Houston (AAC, 2013) and
TCU (SWC, 1987 & 1988), the cougars scheduled an average of 2.4 *Power*
schools per season going back to 1972, 3.2/season going back to bronco's
rookie head coaching year (2005), and 5.3 since independence (2011).** Even though Houston is not a "Power 5" school, they were -- for
2013 only -- technically a member of the BCS, and thus was counted as its
equivalent status of "Power" school. The same applied to TCU back in
1987-88 since they were members of the SWC, which for all intents and purposes
can make a legitimate claim as a "Power" school at that time.
Doug Robinson (cont):I feel it is additionally relevant to note that
while the cougars' had averaged 5.3 "Power" schools since leaving
the MWC, that average actually declines to 4.8 thru 2014, and to 4.2 thru
2015.Not a good scheduling trend for the cougs. Or at
least not for the ones who don't want to watch their team playing small