Article quote: "Utah ran afoul of the governing body in the 1980s for
providing Jason Buck a 12-mile ride home after a recruiting visit. Former Ute
basketball coach Rick Majerus got in trouble for things like providing cookies
to players and taking them to a restaurant. Utah State fired a tennis coach for
violating recruiting rules. Ron Abegglen, the former Weber State basketball
coach, loaned his pickup to a player and ended up getting sanctioned."Many of the NCAA's rules regarding "gifts", etc to players
are not only ridiculous (trouble for giving someone a whopping 12-mile ride?)
they are hypocritical in the extreme.Big-time University X: "Our
coach can't give you a so much as his half-eaten Twinkie because it costs
money but yet we'll make MILLIONS off of you."Riiiight.....
RE Wookie;"BYU should focus on becoming the Harvard of the
West" Byu isn't even the Northwestern of Utah County, but,
its better to aim for the stars & miss then aim for mud puddle and hit it
re: Brave Sir Robin"...you have to wonder how long church
leadership is going to continue to allow the church to be embarrassed. I doubt
this latest scandal will have people flocking to the waters of baptism."The church did nothing to offer a caveat when Glenn Beck was spouting
off about Social Justice. So, I doubt anything will be done this time.Now, if you so naive or shallow enough to let a college football program have
any bearing on "real life" then you need a serious wake up call.
I remember years ago at an Education Week presentation before hundreds of fans
Coach Edwards cautioned all present against providing anything to athletes that
might possibly be viewed as contrary to NCAA rules because of how it would
reflect on the University and, ultimately, the Church.
Maybe it is time to quit intercollegiate athletics at BYU
Wow, what a bunch of over-reaction about nothing!. I say relax and get ready for
another exciting season. Hope Utah's season is more exciting than it has
been the last three years - can't be much fun going to the rump on the hump
sofa bowl again after having another losing season.
bradleyc:"BYU will be just fine and football will go on."What a great example of a true blue coug. For it has been written:"And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be
merry; nevertheless, fear the NCAA-it will justify in committing some
infractions; yea lie a little, give advantage to one because of his recruit star
rating, dig a pit they big brother to the north; there is no harm in this; and
do all these things, for tomorrow we can point the finger at somebody else; and
if is so be that we are guilty, the NCAA will let the refs throw garbage on us,
and at last we shall be saved with a Big 12 invite."
Mr Rock are you insinuating that other schools have something to do with this?
What is the purpose of this statement?'Which brings up something else
that occurs at most big college programs: jealousy and rivalries.'Is
this an attempt to deflect blame to some other university?
@U-PAC: It isn't president Monson's decision alone, but rather the
combined 1st Presidency & Twelve in conjunction with the Board of Trustees
whom these brethren rotate on and off. There has been without question debate
over the years about the future of college athletics at BYU, how it potentially
detracts from the mission of state schools, as well as the future of
post-graduate academics;--The Law School could also be closed in a New
York minute due to the John Swallow Scandal, and no doubt has been discussed.--Some of the brethren have no doubt long opposed BYU attempting to move into
a P5 league athletic alignemnt with either the Big 12 or Pac-12 feeling this
will further make irrelevant the athletic programs of Utah State University,
which is all BYU has really accomplished over the past half century.What
"could" happen at Utah Valley University with ahtletic program growth
could be the wildcard in any future decision making about BYU and the future.
@ Old But Not StupidThe context is not properly portrayed in the
small segment that I quoted. It was obvious that the OP was downplaying upsets
that happen. He cited Utah beating Stanford and UVA beating BYU as examples of
such. I personally disagree. Upsets are what make CFB so great, and they
happen on a weekly basis. If they didn't then there would no need to even
play a season. Just release pre-season rankings and that would be that....
I agree with the posts regarding how long the Church Leadership will tolerate
how embarrasing BYU sports and some of their fans have become. This is no
missionary tool. This is not representative of our faith. This is sad. I
personally hope that BYU sports goes away and that they focus on efforts to
display what good our faith does in the world. Once upon a time sports was
clean, entertaining and uplifting. Now, when one wins a championship in the
backs of most individual's minds, we ask, were they taking PEDs, was it
rigged, was betting to blame, etc... I think BYU should focus on becoming the
Harvard of the West and use the brain power and resources that are already
there, and use it for good. Sports has not proven to meet this expectation of
me and many others of this faith.Go UTES!!
Two For FlinchingSalt Lake City, UT"'Upsets happen
and are just that... upsets. By definition, they don't usually mean
much.'Wrong. Upsets can define or ruin an entire
season."Two FF- did you mean to state that you agreed with the
poster you quoted? He used a qualifier ("usually") and you avoided any
qualifier such as "always" or "usually." Your simple usage of
the word "can" which leaves your assertion ambiguous. This ambiguity
leaves very little difference between the the two statements.So do
you want to revise your statement?
Outside the state of Utah, BYU sports has consistently been a positive tool to
increase name recognition of the church.Inside the state of Utah, a group
of "nay sayers" consistently try to dull the luster on BYU sports to
promote their own agenda.This includes Brad Rock - head "nay
sayer" and general "reluctant fan" for BYU.
rtimesr2ALTADENA, CA said:"@ Uncle Rico:Try Nebraska
and Michigan in 2015; Arizona, Utah, West Virgina in 2016; Utah, Cal in 2017;
Arizona, Wisconsin, Utah in 2018; wisconsin, Virgina, USC, Wasington State in
2019; Arizona, Arizona State, Stanford, Virginia in 2020. Throw in Boise State
every year too. Get you facts straight."Yeah great, they are
scheduled to play them. Any of those schools can back out at any time. Has
happened before to BYU. With the new playoff format, expect more to happen.
This really shouldn't be a huge issue. Nobody even knows what's
happened because the investigation is just starting and people are already
predicting the death of the program. If something has happened it will be dealt
with in an appropriate manner, BYU's leadership has consistently shown a
commitment to running a clean program. As a Utah fan, I take no
pleasure in seeing BYU's program facing this type of investigation. What
seems to get lost in all the noise is that hundreds of young men have done
things the right way over the years. It's must be a huge disappointment for
those who are currently in the program to potentially see their opportunities
diminished because a few didn't follow the rules.
How do get from BYU conducting an internal investigation to the death of
football and all sports at BYU? Some of you folks are either so caught up in
these things that you have no grasp of reality or you simply have no grasp of
reality. Give it a rest. All your carping isn't going to get Utah out of
the PAC10.2 cellar. My confidence lies with the BYU staff and the board, who
happen to be General Authorities.
"Upsets happen and are just that... upsets. By definition, they don't
usually mean much."Wrong. Upsets can define or ruin an entire
This article isn't that alarming, from what is known now. The U fans have
visions of free cars, housing, trips etc. to players, something that would cause
a 'death sentence' to the program by the NCAA. And they seem to
delight in the possibility. I don't doubt that something happened, and as
soon as it was discovered it was dealt with. None of us is perfect and we all
make mistakes, so let's see what the mistake was.........free pair of socks
or free cars? The punishment will fit the crime. Utah fans might want to slow
down a little, it could be your turn next.
If this story grows, BYU football is in serious trouble. Perhaps it is severe
enough under the current scheduling conditions that we could see an exit
strategy developed to eventually get BYU out of college football. In the long
run, while it may break my football-loving heart, it may be better for BYU. BYU
could then become more about academics and faith.
These boards are the go-to for people to come and overreact. If BYU is guilty
of infractions, I hope they receive a fair and full punishment. I assume it
would at most be like loss of a scholarship or two, a reduction of a few recruit
hosting days, etc. In the grand scheme of morality, this is like a
parking violation. Sure it was incosiderate of the person who illegally parked,
but he can pay the ticket without needing some drastic punishment to his driving
ModerateSalt Lake City, UT"That's one way to get exposure
on ESPN."It's the only way Utah would get exposure on ESPN.
Say it aint so, Bronco !
bradleycLayton, UTBYU will be just fine and football will go on.----------I love reading these replies.It's
the go-to for ignorist fans who don't want to give a serious look at the
problem(s) because they are afraid of what they might find and the possible
repercussions.Instead, they choose to make believe everything is
What is so bad about following the Gonzaga model? Drop the football program and
play basketball in the WCC along with Gonzaga and allow the other sports to
compete there as well.
@ Stringer Bell:What part of "ranked-team road-wins" is
anything but a win to you or anyone else? It's a simple straight forward
term that means exactly what it says... wins. So exactly why should I need to be
careful? Most people and ranking services can keep the occasional
upset that nearly every team experiences into proper context and will seldom
read too much into singular instances like Utah tend to do. Stanford's upset loss to a team like Utah (that hasn't been ranked
in years) didn't ruin their season. And neither did BYU's loss to
Virginia. Pundits saw that BYU statistically dominated that game with literally
50% more first-downs and yardage (both passing and running). As such, it was
seen as fluke.Upsets happen and are just that... upsets. By definition,
they don't usually mean much. Utah has beaten BYU for several
years in a row. And yet national ranking services tout BYU's wins over a
ranked Texas team or a previously unbeaten Houston team (on the road) as much
more meaningful. BYU has continued to spend much more time nationally ranked
than Utah through all those years.
When you mix a missionary tool with athletics you get a lot more attention
whether it's deserved or not. Outside of a few zealots, nobody actually
believes when you do things right, on and off the field, magic happens.
Brio"Ranked-team road-wins actually mean more to national
ranking services." Yes they do, providing you win the game.
Losing to an "actual" bottom dweller like Virginia means more to
national ranking services too. Be careful, it works both ways.
If all this happened over the years and the if BYU has known about it sinch
March, they have been quick to discipline (Brandon Davies, Harvey Unga, Spencer
Handley, etc.). If they new of current athletes then wouldn't one want to
speculate that those who may have been involved did not participate in Spring
Just when the team seemed to have all of the elements for a formidable secondary
and a workable offense - now some key offensive players may have to sit. Shades
of Crowton's demise. Thanks to all involved - just like in Crowton's
deal: THE TIMING COULDN'T HAVE BEEN BETTER!
So someone gives a kid a ride home or a coach gives a player a slice of pizza...
and that's supposed to be a notable infraction of rules? That both sounds
and seems utterly ridiculous.We've gone way beyond the intent
and purpose of the original NCAA sports rules to worrying too much about the
letter of the law... and there are now way too many letters written into the
rules. It's become silly and is creating issues where and when there really
shouldn't be any. The original intent of such rules has been lost in many
I have always been under the impression that athletic scholarships include room
and board. Is that not true? I know that dorms and on-campus living might not
be ideal. Are some athletes just too cool to live on campus in the
'free' housing that is part of the scholarship?
This is more evidence to me that major college football, and all the obvious
negatives that go with it, are out of sync with the stated mission of BYU and
its owners. Unless or until both BYU and the LDS Church come to grips with and
take steps to deal with this reality, what is normal for other schools will
continue to be a distracting scandal at BYU and, by extension, Church
BYU will be just fine and football will go on.
Now we know why Samuelson was ushered out. It's time for Holmoe to go,
this is just another in a string of poor management he has shown.
Whether Busby knew he was breaking the rules or not remains to be seen, but
somebody at BYU knew the things he was doing were against the rules and when
someone high enough up the chain finally found out about it he was forced out.
You don't force a person out of a job they have held for 18 years unless
something really bad happened. When Busby left Bronco talked about how valued
he was and how much he would be missed. It remains to be seen whether or not
Bronco knew about the allegations at that time, but I would be willing to bet he
did. One other thing that increases the severity in cases like this is a
pattern of behavior over a long period of time. In other words, if he had been
doing this for years as the allegations have said, then it becomes a much more
serious matter than if he just wanted to help a player or two who were down on
their luck last season.
@rtimesr2My facts are straight. I said home games (as in those played in
Provo). Anyone can play road games against good teams.In the next 3
seasons only 1 power conference school is scheduled to come to provo (and it is
Virginia)2014: Virginia2015: no one2016: no one
@ BraveSirRobinI lived in upstate NY for a few years near Jimmer's
home town of Glens Falls. The first time I drove through the town I was
surprised to see 4 or 5 guys wearing Jimmer BYU jerseys walking the streets of
"downtown". The elders up there said they got stopped all the time by
people asking about Jimmer and BYU. Now I am NOT saying that I know of
anyone who got baptized because of that exposure, but having people approach the
missionaries instead of the other way around can't be a bad thing.
That's one way to get exposure on ESPN.
It is amazing to me how much fanaticism there is surrounding sports. On the
"What's REALLY important in life?" scale sports doesn't even
show up. But so many of the people that comment on here seem to think that is
the ONLY thing that is important.I enjoy watching BYU sports and
have since 1978. But if the church leadership decided to drop all sports
programs like they have at their other schools I would not lose one minutes
sleep over it. Sports is nothing more than entertainment to me. Do I enjoy
watching good LDS kids give their all on the field of play? Yes. But if BYU
sports were to go away I'll easily find something else to do with that
time. Probably something a lot more important.For sure, my testimony
of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in no way is contingent upon BYU fielding s sports
Many byu fans called the firing of Chris Hill over a mean swim coach. If
that's the case then this should bring down Holmoe, Bronco and several
others. This is a MUCH bigger deal than a coach who yelled at his
I understand the Church's need to maintain its reputation both on and off
the field. Anyone paying attention understands how vested BYU and has put its
money where its mouth is by proving its athletes facilities and an environment
second to none. That said, BYU has to get aggressive about joining a major
conference and start playing and winning against the Big Boys or think about
getting out. The last four years have been a mess on the football field, and is
why the SEC and ACC are looking at BYU as a has been program. The home games are
horrible and little by little we are losing the fan base much like all those
years that the Basketball team was losing. Celebrating all these games that we
are playing on the road while our stadium remains empty or hosting High School
caliber teams is killing any hopes of joining a major conference or being
respected enough on the field to be viewed by the SEC and ACC as worthy of them
playing us. I hope BYU and the Church will get serious about being a muscle in
college football before its to late. Call the BIG 12 today
No Brad, BYU's biggest worry isn't scheduling or investigations -
it's the church. More specifically, how long will the church put up with
this? BYU athletics has become detrimental to its stated missionary purpose.
When there are issues with player behavior (football players cussing at fans - 3
million views on YouTube), fan behavior (fans throwing garbage at refs - 8
million views on YouTube), lack of relevance in football (P5, Notre Dame, MWC
not willing to schedule BYU), and lack of institutional control (improper
benefits provided by a member of the staff is way worse than when it's done
by a booster), you have to wonder how long church leadership is going to
continue to allow the church to be embarrassed. I doubt this latest scandal
will have people flocking to the waters of baptism.
@wazzupYes cookie like stuff sounds minor. Still, a corrupt NCAA
punishes teams that threaten their power. Utah and Boise State got penalized for
pizza and cookies while Ohio State commits major violations and a never ending
investigation pretends to take place. Meanwhile, star players involved play in
BCS games and only get suspended the following year for a preseason Division II
tune game where the Buckeyes can win by 28 with their third string starting
across the board. The sanctions Boise State received ushered in
Chris Petersen's departure, as he finally realized his Broncos would only
be allowed to prosper so far. Since then, a significant fall has taken place in
Boise. Sure they win 9 or 10 games a year like BYU (with a weak schedule) but
they are not the same team. Recruiting against bigger schools is hard enough,
but take away scholarships and the effects are huge.I don't
know what to make of this speculative hyped drama in Provo right now. It could
be minor. It's just a crazy week of downer news at BYU. As for
the SEC conversation. Yes this is minor and they get away with major. There is
Regardless of what comes out of this investigation, it's easy to see why
schools in the P5 conferences are building walls to buffer themselves from the
This is one of those stories that seems to feed on itself. We've got few
real details yet the speculation seems to grow exponentially. I have a hunch
that there is a good deal less going on here than meets the eye. Unfortunately
the mere existence of an investigation is often more damaging than what really
@ Uncle Rico:Try Nebraska and Michigan in 2015; Arizona, Utah, West
Virgina in 2016; Utah, Cal in 2017; Arizona, Wisconsin, Utah in 2018; wisconsin,
Virgina, USC, Wasington State in 2019; Arizona, Arizona State, Stanford,
Virginia in 2020. Throw in Boise State every year too. Get you facts straight.
I'm sure the violations were relatively harmless. However, I would have to
agree with Riley Mendenhall that using the football program as a missionary tool
and to gain exposure may not be the right formula. These types of events along
with fans pelting referees with garbage and players getting expelled following
assault investigations are like taking two steps back for every step forward.
Back to the drawing board.
Why do I feel like supplying rent and giving money to players from 1997-2013 is
a little more extreme than majerus throwing a pizza party Rockmonster? Did
you even hear Gerard's research from former players. Seems like they
weren't too slow to sell out BYU
BYU knew they would get caught and had to change their ways this upcoming
year.Why else would this years slogan be "Will over Skill" ?
Meh. It isn't BYU that may have violated NCAA rules. It was a single,
lone employee! If others knew about it, then it's a problem but this
sounds minor, like buying cookies or meals for basketball players. If it was a
lone individual and he was asked to leave, that's quick action vs. trying
to cover anything up. Hoffman's agent/manager admitted he was given a pair
of socks..........believing it was from the equipment room. I can't wait
for the facts to come out vs. the media trying to sell clicks.I
spoke to a former SEC basketball coach on a recent flight. Not even close to
what SEC players are involved with. And this came directly from the former
Three weeks ago I couldn't see BYU giving up sports like the other BYU
campuses have. It's not so hard to imagine now.
Not the missionary tool it was envisioned to be.Time to follow the example
of BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii. Intramural sports are fun.
Scheduling still is the biggest issue.BYU cannot get any good home
games, sure they got Texas this last year, but this was a fluke. Especially
with the latest announcements from the ACC and SEC.BYU home schedule
against power conference schools.2014: Virginia2015: none
scheduled2016: none scheduledBYU plays Virginia in Sep 2014,
after that their next power conference team scheduled to visit Provo is Utah in