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Comments about ‘Utah Sports Ruckus: For BYU it's about time to raise political havoc’

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Published: Thursday, May 22 2014 4:02 p.m. MDT

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AntelopeValleyUte
Palmdale, CA

Regardless of the good comments from sports analyst around the country, the reasons why no one wants to invite BYU:

1. BYU's ego-driven demands, no play on Sunday, wants BYUTv, and be considered a power team with a Mormon national following that has a 1984 national championship that merits prestige in its own right.

2. They haven't played in a BCS game or won one (huge factor whether BYU faithful want to admit it or not; its earned not given and 1984 was a long time ago)

3. Power 5 teams are afraid to play and lose to BYU because it will ruin their SOS because of a loss to (what the P5 conference consider BYU is) a "mid-major" caliber team.

4. Add possible scandal.

All the reasons why no one wants BYU.

My advice...go undefeated and dominate your season and get an invited to a BCS bowl game and win, and maybe you might be considered. Ask TCU and Utah, they can help you in that department what you need to do.

truthsandwich
RANDOLPH, UT

Sorry, the last thing BYU's image needs right now is for them to start playing the whiney victim card.

gdog3finally
West Jordan, Utah

I am curious to know what the approach is or will be at BYU on this matter. Will they raise their voice and cry afoul (discrimination type approach), or use athletics to make a stance (church statement) that might end the program some day? I can't say I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Things might play out somewhere in the middle though, where BYU wins the highest majority of their games within an easy schedule, gets exposure on ESPN (missionary tool), and uses leverage there to win more people over as well as offend along the way. This will keep things similar to how they are now, meaning much of the same perspectives BYU has about itself and others have towards them. The Cougars will get ranked winning 10 plus games against weak competition because of extensive fans around the country and TV contracts/money.

Results? BYU keeps being excluded from the big bowl games (like in recent decades). However they will keep getting ranked by 'USA Today' courtesy of ESPN.

If BYU cries discrimination, and I think they should, they also should have more sympathy for others discriminated against that they have ignored.

Colo. Aggie
Loveland, CO

CougarColby, you nailed it! I didn't like this article either! The last thing we need is a bunch of BYU folks claiming discrimination of all things. This seems very arrogant! However, BYU has burned a lot of bridges with other schools in the west over the years with exactly this type of arrogance! Instead, BYU needs to drop all these broadcast rights demands and realize they are not Texas nor Notre Dame and then present a rationale arguement to the Big 12 why they would help the conference. It's not about discrimination in my view. It's about not winning lately, and it's about thinking that BYU carries enough clout to name their price when it comes to conference affiliation. Sunday plan isn't the problem. It's all the other demands that BYU seems to make that have nothing to do with Church doctrine. Start to win and start to be a little more humble and you may end up getting invited by someone!!

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

zmillion2
West Jordan, UT

@Chris B.

"I know that you know that BYU would have received an invite if we weren't a faith based institution...The reason BYU wasn't invited was because ALL of the schools already in the conference have to vote for the college to be accepted. There are a number of schools (Stanford, Cal) who would never vote BYU in due to our religious affiliation."

zmillion2, you make a statement of fact out of your wishful thinking. Here's an excerpt from a comment posted by a byu fan two days ago...

"I too, have tight connection to not only the pac 12 process, but to Holmoe's crew. BYU going independent...Utes to the PAC12 was a very deliberate decision. BYU and U were both in the discussion, but it came down to more than football...even though most on the committee felt like Utah had a slight edge there. It was the whole package: academics, international reputation, research, athletics, alumni, audience..."

How do we know this description is accurate? Because this is exactly what was represented by the Pac-10 at the time of their invitation to Utah.

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

G-Day-M8
WVC, UT

"Here are the facts.

BYU was strongly considered at one time to join the PAC
BYU was recruited by the SWC but would not bail on Utah
BYU was not taken by the PAC 12 because of Cultural differences
PAC 12 admission is by unanimous vote of school presidents
The majority of PAC 12 school presidents would take BYU but that is not in play
MWC member schools hated BYU as evidenced by Gary Patterson's and other schools hateful comments and attitudes
BYU was used and abused by the MWC...

These are facts?

Definition of Fact: A thing that has actually happened or that is really true; reality; actuality; truth

Here's a fact...
The SEC and ACC have declared byu a mid-major and others are taking notice.

ekute
Layton, UT

Correction: They're not as good as espn thought they were.

SoonerUte
Salt Lake City, UT

Jazzsmack - "@SoonerUte provide evidence that BYU is not one of top 64 athletic programs"

Version 2 Now with names!!

51 different teams played in a BCS bowl game. They earn a spot in "the list".
13 spots remain

17 BCS teams didn't qualify for a BCS bowl. From that list, I'd take these teams ahead of BYU: Missouri, South Carolina, Arizona, Arizona State, California, Texas Tech, Mississippi State, Ole Miss.

5 spots remain

Its not just football. You said "athletic programs". Who would leave these basketball programs off the list?
Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Duke.

0 spots remain

That leaves BYU as a bubble team, somewhere in this group:
Virginia, Boston College, BYU, Iowa State, Vanderbilt.

idaho cougar fan
Twin Falls, ID

It is funny to read all the comments. I like to bag on the Ute trolls as much as anybody and some of them are way off base. Some Ute fans actually use logic and have some good insight. Here is how I see it.

1. BYU needs to win more games. The schedule is getting better in the future and will take care of itself. Win and we are in. BYU football has not done enough the last 10 years.

2. Overall, BYU has one of the best athletic programs in the nation. One of only a few who operate in the black and not the red. Go ahead, do the research and see Uties!

3. Main reason that BYU is not in a P5C, religious bigotry. Plain and simple. If we take everything into account, BYU has been passed up because of religious intolerance. Those who say otherwise are kidding themselves. If was all about money and # of viewers, BYU wins out way over Utah and Colorado. The research program crap is just a cover. You know it, I know it and Pac 10 presidents know it.

Dutchman
Murray, UT

College Presidents meet and decide who gets into conferences and who does not. Not the AD's and certainly not the coaches or other administrators. This may be hard to believe but when the Presidents of the Universities get together to make decisions on conference membership it isn't always about the sports involved or who is great at what sport and who isn't. Many times it comes down to who fits best within the club. Utah made the concious decision back in about 1970 beginning with President James E. Fletcher, a scientist and later two time director of NASA, and continuing on through subsequent Presidents like David Gardner to become a major and well repected research university. This decision and the success that followed with research in many areas but most profoundly in the medical fields paved the way for Utah to get an invitation to the PAC 12 from the other PAC 12 Presidents. Sure, the athletic success had to be there also, but it was not the number one factor in the minds of the Presidents. Obviously, if athletic on field success is the only determining factor then BYU does belong.

Flip McFetch
Las Vegas, NV

Some current undergrad. univ. rankings: US News & World Report, BYU #62, U. of Utah #121. Forbes, BYU #75, U. of Utah #143.

311ute
Reno, NV

@idaho cougar fan,

How is BYU's schedule getting better? They have TWO home games scheduled for 2016 while everyone in a P5 conference has their schedules completed. BYU has basically the entire month of OCT TBD with no hopes of getting anyone to come to LES. Why do you think the AD has been flying around the country meeting with anyone and everyone?

Brio
Alpine, UT

@ SoonerUte:

You are using a selective memory regarding BYU and it's current situation. Their AD has claimed in several past articles that scheduling the "big-boy" games is very difficult and as such is a constant frustration.

Those schools have all seen what BYU did to Texas on national TV last year. They remember what they did to Miami a number of years ago when Miami came to Provo ranked #1 in the nation. As such, they understand what BYU is capable of on any day or game. They almost always play fellow big-boys very competitively.

And since the supposedly elite of the big-boys have refused to see BYU as one of the bigs, they feel they have more to lose than to gain by playing BYU. BYU plays most of their games on national TV on ESPN. So having a team you refused to allow into your conference beat you in front of the entire country would be very embarrassing and a real downer with the ranking services. As such, they choose to pass on invitations to play BYU.

BYU is ready and willing. Most of the "bigs" are not.

Mormon Ute
Kaysville, UT

311ute,

You make a good point. The missionary effort is enhanced by the exposure of those teams and BYU being known as a religious school and then people asking questions about the Church. But I think that opportunity is diminishing these days.

As a Mormon and college sports fan I see sports and religion increasingly going different directions. While it is still possible to be a sports fan and be religious, participating in sports and remaining truly religious is becoming harder and harder. The lifestyles that surround today's college and pro athletes make it really hard to be religious. While there was a time when the LDS Church got a lot of positive mileage from the national exposure of BYU's football and basketball programs I think that effort is losing steam with the changes being made in college football. The current investigation at BYU is going to make this effort even a harder sell.

John S. Harvey
Sandy, UT

This is a silly article based on its premise: i.e., that screaming/whining BYU fans can be the force which tips the balance and lets BYU into a P5 conference (or gets the P5 conferences to consider BYU as an equal). BYU is not in a P5 conference because by-and-large the P5 schools don't want to associate with BYU. BYU's history with every conference its ever been a member of one of a prima donna that causes headaches for the other members. BYU is also perceived (rightly or wrongly doesn't matter) as very hypocritical.

There are some dismal schools (performance wise) in the P5 conferences (because tradition), and there are some very successful schools (a lot more than just BYU) on the outside of the P5 looking in because there isn't "room" for them, or because the conference members simply don't like them. You can call that whatever you like but the fact remains that the only way to get into a conference is if the members of that conference vote to let you in - and right now no one wants to vote to let BYU in.

Brio
Alpine, UT

@ Two For Flinching:

The level of bias in your comments is borderline ridiculous. You think because utah has a medical program and BYU doesn't, that that makes an affiliation difference? Absurd. Do you realize how many P5 schools don't have medical programs?

Besides that, BYU has other academic programs that far exceed the u. Their Accounting program and their entire School of Business Management programs are all nationally ranked well ahead of utahs and most P5 schools.

BYU's AD has mentioned numerous times how difficult it is to get bigger-time programs to schedule BYU. Because BYU is not currently recognized as one of them (*the premise of this article), they figure they have more to lose than to gain by playing and possibly losing to BYU.

If more P5 schools would agree to play BYU, much of this issue would go away. BYU would either sink or float. But they won't. Do some research on past DN articles where Tom Holmoe articulates and explains the difficulties of trying to schedule "big-boy" schools.

Utah fans negative attitude and comments regarding anything BYU has become totally predictable and are taken with a grain of salt.

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

idaho cougar fan
Twin Falls, ID

"If was all about money and # of viewers, BYU wins out way over Utah and Colorado."

Well, idaho cougar fan, if what you say is true, then clearly an invitation to the elite is not about money. Great logic, sport. Now, maybe you see why research is important.

Look, when Holmoe started his independence experiment, byu fans were giddy with excitement. Now, all byu fans can focus on is how they are not part of the elite.

What changed, idaho cougar fan? Are you saying that independence is a joke and that you really do want what Utah has? I'm anxious to hear your response. If membership in an elite conference is what byu wants, then Holmoe has mislead byu fans. Be careful how you answer that question, idaho cougar fan, because the Pac-12 is out of byu's reach.

Henry Drummond
San Jose, CA

I don't think launching lawsuits or media campaigns is going to impress the Power Conferences. I think such actions will only reinforce the undoubtedly untrue negative stereotype that BYU has an inflated sense of its own importance and is too difficult to deal with.

xert
Santa Monica, CA

I agree that BYU deserves better than being excluded as a mid major and rests somewhere outside of the Power 5 interest. Now I will tell you how to remedy that very unfortunate situation. When one of the Power 5 teams agrees to put you on their schedule (this will be tough--because the Y is too tough to be considered a gimme and not prestigious enough to count as a major opponent)---you have to go into their place and beat them. Just win. Win all of your games and make them notice you. This is how you earned your national championship (albeit disputed by most and against a weak Michigan squad in the Holiday Bowl) and this is how Utah and Boise State busted through the clutter of those giants and made them recognize them. Utah going to the Pac 12 was no accident. They are paying for their membership with bruises aplenty and the growing pains are intense. But they are there. BYU would have been truly better off staying in the MWC. Independence that has not proven to be BYU's ticket to Notre Dame status, has been a failure and let's face it. A Mess.

SoonerUte
Salt Lake City, UT

Brio - BYU "AD has claimed in several past articles that scheduling the "big-boy" games is very difficult"

I imagine it is difficult when trying to schedule a game as a 1-for-1 big-boy. Don't do that. Change the marketing. Sell BYU as the best mid-major. Accept 2 for 1's, or single games if you have to.

The big-boys have to improve their strength of schedule primarily by eliminating FCS games. Last year, each P5 conference scheduled about 10 FCS games. That is FIFTY games BYU can compete for. Even if they only had 8 majors on the schedule, that would be something! Wouldn't you enjoy that as a fan?

No doubt, BYU can beat a Texas or a Miami when its their only big game on the slate. You treat it like a bowl game. Those are trap games for the big-boys. Remaining to be seen is how BYU would do against a full slate. Chris Hill lobbied for 10 years to get a PAC spot. Maybe it takes 10 years for BYU to build independence. If that means adding staff to help Holmoe schedule, do it! Play the big-boy schedule. Prove you belong.

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