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Comments about ‘Utah Sports Ruckus: For BYU it's about time to raise political havoc’

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Published: Thursday, May 22 2014 4:02 p.m. MDT

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I<3tennis
Sandy, UT

I have always believed BYU can compete with the best. I have no idea what can be done to make the world of sports more fair. It would be fantastic to see BYU playing with more top tier schools!!! I am annoyed with schools, programs and athletes that think they are entitled--so let's give every school a chance to compete, earn and reach their potential! I believe BYU has earned that right! Your article is very thought provoking!!!

Jazzsmack
Holladay, UT

@SoonerUte
@Chris B

Please provide your evidence that BYU is not one of top 64 athletic programs in the nation, and therefore not deserving of inclusion.

Losing to Utah is not evidence, if it were so then by virtue of Utah's loss to Colorado they do not deserve to be included as well.

SoonerUte
Salt Lake City, UT

Jazzsmack - "@SoonerUte provide evidence that BYU is not one of top 64 athletic programs in the nation, and therefore not deserving of inclusion."
If you are building a list of the top 64 athletic programs - regardless of conference affiliation -- one can make the case that BYU is in that list.

But what good does that do you?

Nobody is ranking the top 64 teams and drawing a line and saying "this is the new division". The division is based on the SCHEDULE you play. You will never have a convincing argument that BYU plays a major schedule until they schedule 9 teams from the major conferences. "On paper" is not good enough. We prove things on the field now.

Imagine 3 unbeaten teams, Ohio State, Oregon, and Alabama, but Alabama has played BYU's 2014 schedule. Which two teams earned the right to play for the National Title?
(Hint: Not Alabama)

If BYU is not included, your complaint is with Tom Holmoe for not creating a major schedule.
And would you really want that? Look what happened to UU and TCU when they started major schedules. Such would be BYU's fate. On field results say so.

kitsutsuki
South Jordan, Utah

Those of you who say just win and everything will be ok are WRONG.

BYU wins more games than 80% of the teams out there - and things are NOT ok. We are easily one of the top 64 teams, but we ARE NOT one of the top 20 teams and with restrictions we face in recruiting, never will be.

Boise State won and won and won and where did it get them? What makes you think BYU is any different?

BYU faces several problems. One is bigotry, like it or not. Look at the majority of Christians that claim we are not "one of them". You think they are predisposed to letting BYU join their conference? The second is geography. We don't fit any major conference, except the PAC10, and we know we are not going there. Third is Sunday play - a huge problem which we know BYU will never give in on.

So are you willing to simply sit back and HOPE that we get invited to the dance? As this article points out, we should scream, holler and do what it takes to get what we deserve. Otherwise, we will be left out, mark it down.

zmillion2
West Jordan, UT

@Chris B.

I know that you know that BYU would have received an invite if we weren't a faith based institution. Obviously the PAC-12 would rather of had Utah and BYU rather than Colorado. The reason BYU wasn't invited was because ALL of the schools already in the conference have to vote for the college to be accepted. There are a number of schools (Stanford, Cal) who would never vote BYU in due to our religious affiliation. Also you mention that no Power-5 conference wants BYU. If I remember correctly the BIG-12 wanted BYU and it was a done deal until BYU said no to giving up T.V. rights.

BYU is definitely better than at least half of the teams in the Power-5 conferences. I do think BYU will join a conference eventually. The BIG-12 makes the most sense, as the PAC-12's liberal schools would never accept BYU.

Flip McFetch
Las Vegas, NV

US News & World Report: BYU #62, U. of Utah #121
Forbes: BYU #75, U. of Utah #143

G-Day-M8
WVC, UT

Here are the facts.

BYU was not invited to join the Big 12
Very few, if any conversations were even held
BYU was strongly considered at one time to join the PAC
BYU was recruited by the SWC but would not bail on Utah
Sunday play was not part of the Big 12 not taking BYU as BYU was never in the running
TV was not in part of the Big 12 not taking BYU as BYU was never in the running
The arrogance of BYU being dissed by the Big 12 is a myth conjured up by the BYU haters
BYU is a top perennial top 25 athletic school and has been for years
BYU was not taken by the PAC 12 because of Cultural differences
PAC 12 admission is by unanimous vote of school presidents
The majority of PAC 12 school presidents would take BYU but that is not in play
MWC member schools hated BYU as evidenced by Gary Patterson's and other schools hateful comments and attitudes
BYU was used and abused by the MWC
BYU was prepared for many years to move to independence
BYU's independence move was NOT a knee jerk reaction

A1994
Centerville, UT

P5 Teams who have never won a national championship: Duke, Wake Forest, North Carolina State, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, West Virginia, Iowa State, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington State, Arizona, Arizona State, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and (wait for it) Utah. And there are several P5's (Like Cal and Stanford) who won their NC in the 1920s (just for anyone who is saying 1984 was so long ago.) This isn't a question of whether or not BYU is relevant in college football. Of course they are. They also have a Heisman Trophy in their case as well. This is an issue of not wanting to share money. I can't imagine any true college football fan who wants to shut our half of the FBS teams from competing.

slcftball
Salt Lake City, UT

CougarColby said it perfectly:

re: A1194:"If the P5 schools want to create a bigger D1 league without BYU...then we need to play better so they have to include us." We are 2-12 against ranked opponents-our product isn't there NOW-who cares about 1984. The kids playing now weren't even born!

"I honestly believe that BYU will be in the FCS division in the coming years because football isn't the most important thing at BYU." I hope sports arent dropped all together ala BYU Hawaii and Ricks...

I ask you-if we were in the PAC where would we finish? Honestly. 10th? (we being member 13) ahd of Wash St, Cal, Colorado?

Wash-no lost
Utah-no lost
OSU- no
Oregon-no
Stanford-no
USC-no
UCLA-no
ASU-no
AZ-no

take your heart out of it...anyone diagree? if so u rank em

Cosmo1974
Woods Cross, UT

It seems that a lot of Utah "fans" simply are not getting the point. The author of the article used facts that can be easily verified for why BYU should be given a chance to compete for a NC as part of a P5 conference or at least get a Notre Dame "exception." If I remember correctly, when Utah broke into the BCS in 2004 and especially in 2008, wasn't there a lot of Utah fans that were complaining about how the BCS was unfair and the team should have been given a shot at the national championship? Yes, BYU hasn't won a BCS game, but again, as stated in the article, BYU's resume speaks for itself. As I've stated in other posts, I think Utah "fans" are happy about BYU's struggles simply because its BYU. If it were almost any other team or even Utah themselves, Ute "fans" would more than likely be saying the same things a lot of BYU fans are saying now.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ A1994

So what? Yale and Army both dwarf anything BYU has done in terms of awards. Should they be considered a P5 opponent?

If BYU wants respect, schedule a P5 schedule and WIN. Using the courts to manufacture respect for your football program will not work.

Floyd Johnson
Broken Arrow, OK

I can stand up all I want and scream "I won't take it anymore," but all that is going to happen is my wife will tell me to be quiet, she is trying to sleep.

To be heard, BYU has to win games and have a phenomenal season. They have not done that recently.

Who am I sir?
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@You are "Kidding, “Please do us all a favor. Please provide us with the empirical evidence that justified Utah's inclusion in AND BYU's exclusion from a P5 conference based on "on the field" performance" and from the article"Can anyone make an argument that BYU does not possess a …. top 60 football program?"

Yes

Consider the following:
1. Majority of the "experts" would rank TCU and Utah ahead of BYU in the years prior to their admission to the PAC-12 and Big 12. (Consider the 20 years prior – not the period 40-20 years prior. A question of what have you done recently)
2.Both TCU and Utah have struggled in the 3 years of current conference membership.
3.BYU fans are quick to say Utah is “bottom-dweller” of PAC-12 and are “grouped with teams they consider the lowest of the major conferences. (names mentioned include Iowa State, Vanderbuilt, etc)
4.Yet Utah has beaten the Y 9 of the last 12 years and the last 4.

(to be continued)

Blue Cougar
Oak Harbor, WA

Folks, there is nothing to panic about. We're scheduling great games out into the future. Many other big teams will continue to play us because we travel well and because they get to be seen on ESPN when they play in Provo. We even play in bowl games every year; not every team can say that. ;)

Who am I sir?
Cottonwood Heights, UT

continued from above

5.Is BYU better than most fans and”experts” believe? For the past two years (at least) BYU has won the number of games predicted in Preseason. Last year they played 7 teams from the 5 top conferences. They defeated Texas! (a 5 loss Texas team). However that “good” win was more than offset by the inexplicable loss to Virginia.
6.They have no chance to win a big game this year that would make a case for them being better than people believe. Why – because of a strength of schedule in the mid-nineties (Not 1 of the Big 5 conference members will play a schedule any where as weak as this one)they are favored in 11 of their games with Texas being a “toss-up” (So no chance to impress as Utah did when they defeated then #5 Stanford last season and Alabama in ’08 Sugar Bowl)

This is just an "argument" that BYU doe not have a top 60 football team. However, If Utah is as bad as many BYU fans say they are applying logic to the past 3 years results leads to a plausible position.

NightOwlAmerica
SALEM, OR

Unfortunately the author of this article shares the same sentiment as other BYU fans. They "deserve" and "belong." Sounds selfish and spoiled.
Sorry, it does not work that way. Pouting and calling out major conferences only widens the gap between you and them.

NightOwlAmerica
SALEM, OR

KCbleedsblue
SPANISH FORK, UT said:

"The big picture is about discrimination of other college programs in the NCAA. What right does certain conferences have to create a monopoly of college football for the intent to control the direction of money channeled in the college football industry? ….."

Because they can. The major conferences are fast approaching a time when they will have the power to break away from NCAA authority. And when they do, the tv contracts, money and fans will follow.

Cosmo1974
Woods Cross, UT

Did you Utah "fans" even read the article? If you did, you would know that, like the author wrote, no one can honestly give a good reason as to why BYU shouldn't be given the chance to "play with the big boys." Because you think BYU doesn't deserve a chance, does that mean the rankings the author used like the Director's Cup ranking, ESPN's all-time college football prestige ranking, and Sports Illustrated's "Program Pecking Order" mean nothing? Do the people who work for ESPN and Sports Illustrated know nothing about college football? I think some Utah "fans" are just upset that BYU is ranked higher than Utah in several polls and ranking systems by people who know what they are talking about. Let the excuses fly!

NightOwlAmerica
SALEM, OR

dhsalum
Saint George, UT
@MyPerspective said:

"Utah's academics are not better than BYU's. Each school has certain programs and certain schools that are better, but overall they are essentially equal. The Pac 12 got the salt lake market while not having to bringing in a church school. Anyone who followed expansion knows there was no chance BYU would be invited to the pac because of their association with the Mormon church."

Sorry but you need to do more research. The PAC 12 has a set of criteria to join. Yes it's true that to some degree that BYU was not invited because it's a religious school. BYU fans need to remember here that when Texas, Oklahoma and the others were invited. Some politicians demanded that Baylor be part of the deal. The PAC 12 said no. Baylor is also a religious school, and actually brings little to the table as far as research and academics. So please stop playing the LDS discrimination card when talking about the PAC 12.

NightOwlAmerica
SALEM, OR

A1994
Centerville, UT said:

"P5 Teams who have never won a national championship: Duke, Wake Forest, North Carolina State, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, West Virginia, Iowa State, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington State, Arizona, Arizona State, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and (wait for it) Utah. And there are several P5's (Like Cal and Stanford) who won their NC in the 1920s (just for anyone who is saying 1984 was so long ago.) This isn't a question of whether or not BYU is relevant in college football. Of course they are. They also have a Heisman Trophy in their case as well. This is an issue of not wanting to share money. I can't imagine any true college football fan who wants to shut our half of the FBS teams from competing."

Yeah never mind the fact that Kansas is a basketball power, UA & ASU have won NCAA titles in several sports. Oregon State has college world series titles, Duke & N. Carolina are also basketball powers. There are other national titles with the schools you listed. Why do you only bring up Football?

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