Comments about ‘Letter: Moving up’

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Published: Monday, May 19 2014 10:56 a.m. MDT

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John Charity Spring
Back Home in Davis County, UT

This is perhaps the most correct letter to appear in this paper in a long time. The principles of responsibility and self reliance are largely ignored in today's society.

Unfortunately, the current left leaning administration is affirmatively creating a lazy and envious society. Specifically, it has created a culture of entitlement in which the masses have no incentive to act responsibly. The masses feel that simply because they exist, the government is required to satisfy their every want and need. The masses cannot stand the fact that those who work hard are better off.

We must return to the principle that a man must work for his bread, and if he will not work, he will not eat. That is the way to instill a sense of financial responsibility and reduce envy.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

We tend to give those at 'the top' too many breaks, the rationale being we'll be among them someday.

We won't.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

I would have a better time believing Patti if I wasn't everything Patti said :

Middle Age white guy,
College educated,
LDS returned Missionary,
USAF veteran,
30 year Aerospace engineer,
married 30 years,
4 kids (2 LDS Missions, 2 Temple married, 3rd Mission Prep, 4th High School),
always active in Church, always working for the man.

I lost over $500K, my life's savings, and retirement in the Bush economy- Housing Meltdown.

BUT --
WallStreet, Bank of America, and all the rest of Corporate America who got a "free hand out" fromt he Government, is making insane record level profits with MY hard work and investments.

Your example therefore -- FAILED.

The Wraith
Kaysville, UT

Contrary to the popular myth there is not a culture of entitlement and dependency. I'm still surprised that this story, which is demonstrably false, has been so successfully sold to America. What has developed in this country is sense of defeatism. A sense that no matter how hard one works there is no hope, no way out. The vast majority of Americans, even those getting forms of welfare, are hard working people who would love to make a better life for themselves. Sadly most lack the ability to get the training or education they would need to do that. Sure there are those that scam the system but that's not a reason to cut off everyone else.

Meanwhile we have corporations getting billions in government aid. An insurance system with legal protection against anti-trust laws. A banking system that knows it can do whatever it wants, even flout it's ability to cheat and defraud the American public and get away with it. The right and the left were very successful at distracting people that we missed them turning the country into an oligarchy.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Open Minded Mormon" yes, the US failed when it bailed out the banks. However, you have made it quite clear that you want to give the government more power so that they can control the economy that much more. If you thought losing $500,000 was bad under Bush, wait until the government decides that they need the rest of your retirement savings to pay for Obamacare and Social Security.

Thid Barker
Victor, ID

You nailed it Patti but don't expect liberals to agree! They have succeeded in electing "leaders" who force some Americans to work for that which they will not receive so other Americans can receive what they did not work for. In America we used to call that slavery but liberal Democrats call it "social justice".

embarrassed Utahn!
Salt Lake City, UT

Hooray for President Obama!

There is a kiosk in the Smithsonian American History Museum where you can vote for "America's Most Effective President"
and guess who has a commanding second place behind another great Democrat Franklin Roosevelt??? Go ahead, guess.

I love this President and apparently a lot of other people outside the Zion Curtain do too.

Looking forward to 2016 and the next election.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@embarrassed Utahn
"guess who has a commanding second place behind another great Democrat Franklin Roosevelt??? Go ahead, guess."

Since you asked, Obama. It shouldn't be Obama though. He only scores that high because of recency bias. I'd think he should be somewhere in the teens.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

The problem is that middle income people like me are under attack by the super wealthy. I'm perfectly content to be in the middle, but if trends continue I will be forced into the kind of poverty which used to bedevil seniors. Super wealthy interests, exemplified by the Koch Brothers, are trashing pensions and advocate for the elimination of social security and medicare. These are benefits which we seniors have earned. I will not stand by and have my future destroyed. I will speak out. This is not envy! It is self-protection.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Marxist. Please explain how 'rich' people are attacking you! How are they eliminating your SS or any other benefit you feel you have earned? Obama is your biggest threat. He has turned this once great united nation into groups of competing minorities who like suckling pigs are all fighting among themselves lest they lose their places on the government teats!

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Mountanman "Please explain how 'rich' people are attacking you! " I think I did. To quote myself:

"Super wealthy interests, exemplified by the Koch Brothers, are trashing pensions and advocate for the elimination of social security and medicare."

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Also, that the distribution of wealth is top heavy is not the point. This has always been the case. What is amazing at the present time is how positively ENORMOUSLY top heavy it is. I don't think you tea party types comprehend this.

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

Must be a pretty slow day for letters.

"Most people do not make it to the top. If they did, there would be no top. . . . If the bottom can make it to the middle, that is a really good thing."

But by the writer's own logic, there's not enough room in the middle for those on the bottom. If there were, then there would be no middle.

This is a silly argument. There are always a top, middle, and bottom. These are relative terms. The problem today is that the playing field is slanted so that the few on the top have most of the money roll their way. Think of it as reverse gravity. Those on the bottom are losing wealth and opportunity fast. Those in the middle too. Yes, some will move up or down, but it is getting harder to move up.

The game is rigged. It's like the NBA giving Tim Duncan (and only Tim Duncan) a broom to swat shots with or making everyone else shoot blindfolded. If we want a better, more humane society, we need to change a few rules.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Ok, Marxist please explain how the Koch Brothers are trashing your pension! Was it that they donated money to conservative political candidates? What about those evil rich people who donate to the Democrats? Are they trashing your pension too? What you may not comprehend is what is really trashing your pension is the government printing money out of nowhere, out of control spending and borrowing which is devaluing the dollar! By the way, I am not a tea party type but I know the liberal Democrats have it all wrong and at least some of the TEA party values are our only hope!

Kora
Cedar Hills, UT

I agree with the letter writer. We need to get beyond jealousy and envy. This is part of the class warfare that is pushed by the left. Individuals who are doing pretty good start to believe otherwise because they are told how much more others have and that it is unfair that others are "so much better off".

Unfortunately you could bring everyone in this country up to the upper middle class standard of living, but if you elevated the rich by a proportional amount, many people, at the urging of the left, would still think themselves poor because of the "evil" income gap.

I call it Economic Relativism: many people will consider themselves poor regardless of what they have as long as others have a lot more than them.

FYI, pensions were trashed by themselves. They are unsustainable, and driving businesses and governments into bankruptcy. Every major city going broke is doing so because of guaranteed benefit pensions.

OMM- I believe it was Obama who advocated to bail out GM, one of the largest businesses in the world. The most conservative Republicans, like myself, opposed TARP. "Too Big To Fail" is a liberal mantra, not conservative.

Ford DeTreese
Provo, UT

Mtnman:

Yes, and I'm sure Obama is responsible for global warming, grade inflation, the kidnapping of 300 Nigerian schoolgirls, the Japanese tsunami, Typhoon Haiyan, GM's quality problems, MERS, the capsized Korean ferry, and toenail fungus. Probably everything else too. Never seen such a sad bunch of whiners who can't come up with any constructive ideas as the tea party and its little sister, the GOP.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

What breaks?
They already over 70% of the individual income taxes.

Open minded/airnaut,
Sorry you spent more than your house was worth. Sorry you invested poorly. I know, it’s easy to blame someone else when you make a poor decision. That danged bush!!!!

Wall street got a free hand-out from the government? Too much MNSBC for you! Commercial banks paid very high dividend rates on the preferred stock the government bought from them and the treasury actually made money – we’d have made more if geithner had not sold out too soon.

Your accusation? FAILED!

Embarrassed,
That kiosk? Yep, unemployed folks lining up to push the BO button. In a few years, he will slip down down down. It’s just a popularity poll for those who see it, nothing objective to it at all.

Marxist,
Trashing pensions, really? No, it’s a dem plan pushed by the unions to rob IRAs and KEOUGHs to pay busted union defined benefit plans. TOO MUCH MSNBC FOR YOU!!

Ford DeTreese
What??? Where did you come up with that? Typical lib, make a straw argument when you have no cogent argument.

Fred44
Salt Lake City, Utah

Kora,

Who is jealous, who is envious? Why are the ultra rich and their advocates so sensitive? It must be really tough to be a rich person (oops I guess that makes me jealous and envious). Speaking as someone who works 60+ hours a week to remain in the middle class, I am perfectly happy with my place in life. I am not jealous nor do I envy the wealthy. I have earned what I have and I am fine with that.

Under President Ronald Reagan (whom I voted for twice) we established "trickle down" economic policies, with the idea that by lowering the taxes on the ultra rich all would benefit through the trickle down effect. In 1980 I believed that would happen. We have thirty years of evidence to show that it did not and is not happening. I believe that President Reagan himself if he were alive today would say it was a failure. That model has tipped the wealth even farther to the richest of the rich. Sorry but that is not good for the country. We need a new plan, one that gives the wealthy tax breaks for creating jobs, not just for being wealthy.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

embarrassed Utahn!

Re: "Hooray for President Obama!"... "America's Most Effective President"... "I love this President".... "Looking forward to 2016"...

The Obama Worship is well noted. But you know he will be out of office in 2016... right? So why are YOU looking forward to 2016? I know why I am looking forward to 2016, but I don't see why an Obama worshiper would be looking forward to him being out...

====

@Marxist,
Re: "the Koch Brothers, are trashing pensions"...

How in the world are the Koch Brothers trashing pensions? By donating to political campaigns??

If they trash pensions by contributing to political campaigns... did the people who contributed to Obama's political campaign trash MY pension??

Most of the recent recession happened when Obama was President. And he voted for TARP and the other bailout stuff that happened when Bush was President... And his party setup the Mortgage Bubble (which caused the recession).

====

Re: The rest of the letters that showed a distinct jealousy complex (the system is rigged for the rich, etc, etc, etc)... that's just bunk. Look at how many people have made it in the USA... was Bill Gates born rich?

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Ford DeTreese

You might recall that Obama, in his first inaugural address, promised to heal the planet. It seems to me that he claimed responsibility for all those things himself.

I am still waiting for holy Obama to make good on curing my toenail fungus, but I can afford to wait. The girls being held by Islamist Extremists can't wait for him to talk nice to the terrorists. They are already being ravaged.

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