@LovelyDesert...Yet another well thought out articulate post prior to research.
One might desire information regarding the revenue athletics bring to The
University. Just an idea.
Duckhunter,I do not make false statements. I take great pride in
performing my own research and talking to bonafide sources for information
before I post comments. I have made inquiries directly to very high ranking U
officials regarding the U budget. This is what I was told:1) The
$3.2 billion U of U budget definitely does not belong to the State of Utah.2) The Governor and Legislature understand this.3) The
$253 million appropriation that the State does allocate to the U must be used
solely for education purposes. It cannot and is not used to fund athletics or
to build and maintain athletic facilities. I believe and trust the
information that I have received.
If student fees are subsidy, then BYU is also in the red, because they use
student fees to fund athletic expenses as well. That's why students get
into the events at a discount. The ESPN data I'm citing only includes
money generated by the athletic departments, no subsidies. I guess some readers
just don't care to check their facts.
@dutchmanI incorrectly called pocy out when it is you that has been
trying to falsely claim that the state does not own the university and its
revenues. Interesting that articles keep appearing that show how wrong you are
about that.@Mormon UteActually I am correct. The utah
athletic department takes subsidies from both the students and the university
itself which equal close to 10 million dollars per year. Thanks for showing us
that even with those subsidies they are still in the red the last few years. The
athletic department does not generate enough revenue on its own o pay its way,
so the subsidies cover the shortfall. This is what I am refering to when I say
they are "cooking the books" to make it appear as if they pay their own
way. They do not, the defcit is simply covered by the subsidy although based on
your numbers that extra 10 mil isn't even covering things any longer.You can find all of this online in articles in the dnews from a couple
of years back. They do not allow links or I would provide them for you.
Duckhunter,I have to correct your statement about the sports
deficit. ESPN recently reported data on all colleges and universities
nationwide regarding sports expenses and revenues from 2008 through 2013. That
data revealed that for 2013 the U's sports program had a deficit of $2.6
million. Far smaller that your $10 million claim. In addition, the largest
deficit during that 6 year period was $2.8 million in 2012 and in 2011 and 2009
they had a surplus with the remaining years (2010 and 2008) the deficit was
smaller than $1 million. So for an entire 6 year period the U's athletic
budget deficit has been less than the $10 million you claim is an annual
deficit. The numbers I am citing are from public data gathered and reported by
ESPN in a data base that is available for all to see.
From the article: "During the 2013 legislative session, lawmakers approved
a separate appropriation to assist in the infrastructure upgrade and Higgins
said the revenue-generating auxiliary departments at the university will also
absorb some of the costs of construction."That separate
appropriation was for the water and electricity upgrade. No where in the
article did it suggest that the U was asking the legislature for $400 million to
upgrade infrastructure needs. In fact as quoted above the revenue generating
departments are absorbing some of the costs. The U has a $3.2 billion budget
which comes mostly from revenue generating departments like the hospitals and
clinics. The State of Utah appropriates $253 million annually for its
educational mission which includes the $20 million a year for maintenace as
mentioned. That covers about 40% of the cost for undergraduate education.
Tuition covers the rest which makes it a 60-40 split. 35 years ago the split
was 75% State and 25% tuition. So you can see state support has been declining
drastically. I assume the U will cover most of this infrastructure cost through
its revenue generating departments and will ask the State of Utah for very
little assistance if any at all.
"We’re not to this situation yet, but you can get to a position where
all of your funding is just spent fixing things that are already broken,"
Higgins said. "It’s always more expensive to fix it after it breaks
than it is to prevent it from being broken. That’s the cliff that we are
all trying to avoid."You expect this kind of negligence in
places like D.C., but I thought Utah was supposed to be more fiscally
responsible than this.The U of U might want to take a sabbatical on
building new facilities, like basketball training facilties, until they've
figured out how to maintain the facilties they already have.
This is not a new problem at the U; when I was a student at the U many, many
years ago, there was ivy growing through the windows of a couple of my
classrooms.It seems irresponsible to be building new athletic
facilities that will only be used by a select few students, when the university
can't even afford to maintain the buildings that they already have.
Maybe the could charge extra for tickets to the sports programs! How much more
does it cost to see a game in LA vs SLC? Just charge everyone the same price as
the rest of the big-time PAC schools and use that money. With everyone that
attends that should bring in an extra $10 to $15.00. With the renovation of the
Football and Basketball venue's it would be interesting to see how much
ticket prices go up and where that money goes. As a taxpayer in the state of
Utah I want to know where my money is going. Building a bigger statium or arena
to show off more empty seats is not a wise choice in spending the States hard
Since government education produce no tangible products to sell is why
government has a tax and budget from of financing to provide limited services to
the public. They have no right to profit for the services rendered when we pay
taxes. Every government agency granted a budget the includes building
maintenance and repairs but it always gets misappropriated in fraudulent use. A
budget means that is their total financial limit and shutdown is an accountable
criminal failure. It all proves that government is bad business and
should never have been turned into business like operations. Its a flawed
concept to think or imagine that govenrment can be run like a business, its
impossible and failure is its only outcome with a national multi trillion dollar
failure we have to reverse.The taxpayers are not only paying into
the budgets, government has become a failure they have resorted to selling their
prepaid services back to the public if they need the services of government
agency. We are taxed to create, maintain, employe workers then taxed again to
benefit from paying taxes.If cost exceed budget then some serious
changes must take place in its leadership.
DutchmanCare to explain how a school that is so financially
independent is $400 million in the red in the deferred maintenance?Sounds like the U's priorities are seriously flawed.Instead
of carelessly spending millions on shiny new football and basketball facilities,
maybe "research" U should be spending the money on maintaining their
crumbling science buildings.
RE: rlsintx, Plano TX"I just retired and worked via internet most of
the last 11 years - companies do this because facility costs eat your profit
margin."There is a major corporation in your town that did just that -
had employees work from home and ditched real estate. That company is now
reversing course because they found that face to face collaboration has a
benefit that online meetings cannot provide. I hope you're not
suggesting that the future of universities is primarily online. IMO, that is
not the best education. A great example of online failure is this article.
Many commenters seem to think the issue is due to new construction and sports
programs. Had they READ the article, they would understand the real cause.
The outcry from happy valley is to drop college sports and support education. I
wonder why? lol.
A maintenance back log of $400 million yet they spend millions on upgrading
sports facilities? I think the University of Utah has their priorities mixed up.
The Utes sports programs are garbage anyways...I say cut out the sports and put
the money where it matters.
They should have the students "volunteer" to clean the buildings. They
can cut the janitorial staff and put that savings in to repairing the buildings.
On the other hand, the U is growing by leaps and bounds! They are definitely a
good fit in the PAC 12.
@schnee"The sports programs combined take in more money than
they spend..."No they don't, which makes this even worse.
The athletic programs at the university of utah run about a 10 million dollar
DEFICIT every year although they cook the books and claim they don't by
appropriating money from students and the school itself to cover the
shortfall.So that is approximately 10 million more per year that
should be used for the upkeep of educational facilities that instead is used to
subsidize the money losing athletic program. The on top of that they are
currently going on an athletic facility building binge to the tune of several
hundred million dollars that will create even more facilities the university
cannot afford to maintain. It is an absolute ripoff.Oh and pocyute,
if the university of utah is not owned by the state then why is the state paying
for all of this? yes I know you'll read this and yes I know you'll
keep trying to pretend the university is somehow seperate and it's money
doesn't belong to the state. This article pretty much buries all of your
false points on this subject.
I don't understand the relationship between university athletics and
education. Perhaps the legislature could pass a law stating that the inter
school athletic program at all state supported universities and colleges should
be self-sustaining. Then the taxpayer wouldn't have to pay for these
programs that don't have anything to do with education.
With all of the construction going on at BYU I'm guessing they don't
have these infrastructure problems to the tune of $400 million.I'm sure my 'fair' and voluntary tax contribution will be going
up to support this U of U fiasco and other government boondoggles.
Kings Court - just as a data point; adopting what I wrote wouldn't
uninformed, ill thought trials or be leading a parade at this point in time -
they'd call it catching up. My son-in-law is a full professor
at a major university in Texas. His office hours are by video connection only.
My son who lives on campus has classes each semester where online video link
attendance is mandatory and attendance is taken - same with out of class work
sessions with other students, all done via net with mandatory video.Adapt or fail, the world has been adapting these approaches for at least 10
years now.Regarding % of students who don't complete - flunk
them out, there's a good chance their employers won't be providing
them a cube of office either for good portion of their career. Xerox and many
others actively try to shed office space wherever possible for profit reasons.
I just retired and worked via internet most of the last 11 years -
companies do this because facility costs eat your profit margin. Schools are
little different, but it's the way of the world for many industries now.
It does seem a shame that new football and basketball centers are built when
general upkeep is neglected. Isn't education a bigger priority than sports?
How many students at the school? 30,000? How many football players, 120? How
many basketball players, 40 total (mens and womens)? I love college sports but
come on....buildings are falling apart??
@LovelyDeseretThe sports programs combined take in more money than they
spend...@Eddie...by about 5-10 million if I recall correctly
so it's not enough to take care of all infrastructure needs by itself.
Don't look now, but somebody has their hand out to the taxpayers AGAIN!The real meaning of HIGHER education is that it has priced itself out of the
market. When government steps in, competition ceases. It costs more and more and
they've killed off the very things that keep prices low.So, now we
have grads with worthless degrees and a boatload of debt...and still it is not
enough to feed the albatross.But this is government, not a free market.
And we will continue to pay more with no end in sight.
Why don't they just get the money from all their mighty sports programs
championships from the PAC 10+u? Or does this mean that they can't use all
that money coming in to help repair what they already have. Sounds like it could
be a little bit of counting their chickens before they hatch thinking that they
would rule the conference of champions and get all the money they need.
These are all great recommendations in the comment section. I would add that if
they got rid of the athletic department they would save millions that could be
put towards education. Priorities. Education over athletics.
Instead of getting money from Huntsman to build a new basketball center, get him
to fund some maintenance. The U could even put his name on the side of a water
tower, electrical box or on the pot holes he paid to be fixed.My
guess is that Huntsman would actually donate money to fix things, but the U is
more worried about a new basketball center than keeping things working properly.
It is a university, a place of learning and training for the future, but
instead too many 'leaders' are interested in sports than education.
rlsintx, that would be fine if everyone would complete their online courses.
Current data shows that 87% of online courses are not completed. That
doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.
Do the obvious; reduce the need for physical infrastructure by using more
on-line teaching and lecturing over the internet and shedding facility focused
historical practices. Weed out outdated facilities and don't replace them.
These would also reduce your road use, parking, shuttle bus, pollution etc.
The University should use the students to repair the campus. Pay them and give
them job training.