Comments about ‘ACC snubs BYU, but Cougar officials not in panic mode’

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Published: Thursday, May 15 2014 5:20 p.m. MDT

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SoonerUte
Salt Lake City, UT

Cougsndawgs "...the impression that BYU feels entitled to be in the Big 12... who approached whom the first time around?"

Though locally I prefer the Utes, I am first a Big12 fan. While trying to survive as a conference the Big12 approached BYU. Given the unstable situation BYU walked away, and the message I heard was "No, BYU will not help the Big12 survive." If BYU wants a P5 home, I see no reason for the Big12 to forgive and forget.

Its not BYU hate, but I don't see BYU fitting in to the Big12. The ONLY reason Cougar fans speak hopefully of the Big12 is that they got passed over by the PAC12. I don't know what happened there, but BYU should mend the PAC bridge. BYU belongs in the west.

As a Big8 fan, I'd rather see Nebraska/Mizzou come back. As a Big12 fan, I'd rather see teams like Tulsa/Cincinnati/Houston if they had to expand. Lesser teams than BYU? Perhaps. But they make geographic sense. Spanning 3 time zones just to accommodate BYU would be a joke.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

esodije:

"Even in bad years, BYU's football team beats the PAC cellar-dwellers."

Well I suppose that really depends on who you'd be calling the "PAC cellar-dwellers". From what I'd read, the bulk of cougar nation considers Utah to be among the "PAC cellar-dwellers", and we all know that the cougars can't beat Utah. So if you think we ARE "PAC cellar-dwellers", then no, you can NOT beat them. In fact, you can't even beat us in a "good" year now, can you? 54-10? You DID know that the Y was on the "10" side of that score, didn't you?

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

Continued...

"I suggested that BYU go to the Big 12 "hat in hand"...how does that suggest entitlement? That suggests contrition and a desire to contribute, not ask for something we're "entitled" to."

That may be true for your part, Cosmo, but that isn't what Holmoe (who is authorized to speak and act on behalf of byu athletics) did. He went to the SEC and the ACC and asked to be considered a P5 caliber program because...well...just because we are byu. That's an entitlement.

"And stop pretending P5 teams have earned it...did Rutgers Maryland, Utah, or Colorado earn it?"

I know nothing of Maryland and Rutgers. However, Utah was judged, weighed, and found worthy of an invite to the Pac-10 based on compliance with established criteria already met by Colorado (who simply moved between P5 conferences).

You people think you can 'will' yourselves into a P5 conference by creating hypothetical scenarios that don't exist in the real world (Rutgers and Maryland didn't earn their place so byu doesn't have to either). That's an entitlement.

Rise and pout.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

SoonerUte:

Why would you want to see Houston in the Big 12? You already have Texas, Tx. Tech, Baylor, and TCU in Texas, and Houston doesn't even command the Houston market. That would be A&M. I could see a cursory interest in Cincinnati, but only for a toehold into Ohio, and ONLY if the Big 12 needs that to get up to 12 teams. There just doesn't seem to be much in the way of good expansion options for the Big 12.

If the Big 12 DOES decide to make a move on Cincy, who would you like to see as the 12th team?

Boise St. brings "good football", but a poor "television market", and stretches the league into another time zone.

Colorado St. doesn't really grab the "Denver" market, and it doesn't really bring "good football" (at least not anymore), but it IS a state school in the CST, and a school that could bring the Big 12 back into Colo.

And what about AFA?

I agree that the cougars are too mediocre for the Big 12 to invite a "distant" and "high maintenance" program, so who would you like to see invited?

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

This is an article about relevance in the college football world. Based solely on reader comments it is clear that the most relevant college football team in Utah is BYU. By my count at least 92 of the comments thus far are from alleged Utah fans (I only counted the easily identifiable troll monikers), which would make this one of the top 5 most commented articles about Utah football in the last year (except that Utah isn't even mentioned in the article). Thank you Utah fans for your help in keeping BYU relevant. We don't actually need your help as BYU has a much richer and deeper tradition than the U, but it's fun to see y'all so "frantic and emotional" as our buddy Naval likes to say. Go Cougs!, the only "relevant" college football team in Utah.

mussingaround
Palo Alto, CA

SoonerUte

"While trying to survive as a conference the Big12 approached BYU. Given the unstable situation BYU walked away, and the message I heard was "No, BYU will not help the Big12 survive."

"Unstable" is a gross understatement of the projected state of the conference. If all of the teams that were speculated to leave the conference had actually left, the remnants of the Big 12 wouldn't have been any better than the remnants of the Big East after Louisville, Rutgers, West Virgina, et al pulled out.

SoonerUte
Salt Lake City, UT

Naval Vet: the 12th team.

I actually would not want to see Houston in, but Texas has this way of lobbying for home teams.

I think the Big12 owes West Virginia at least one team out East, so Notre Dame, of course (joking). It is slim pickings. NIU is a BCS buster, but I don't know enough about them. The Big12 missed out on a nice Cincy/Louisville package. When there were rumors of the Big12 going after Florida State and Clemson, I thought they should grab Louisville and Pittsburgh instead. I know its about television markets now, but why not create/restore some regional rivalries?

Out West, AFA over Colorado State. I am not sure how a service academy would fare in a P5 conference, but their wishbone style would be a nice change of pace. And who doesn't love a good pre-game fly over?

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

MP:
Wow, you continue to spin. All I said was stop pretending like U earned it when your play on the field really had nothing to do with it. I wasn't saying BYU deserved it because those other programs didn't. I was telling you to get off your high horse about "deserving" something that you may have only gotten because of your research status and TV market. Keep twisting my words though...definitely a talent of yours. BYU isn't "entitled" to anything and nothing I've said suggests that I think they are. As for Holmoe he was looking out for BYUs best interests...you know something he's hired to do. It amazes me how you think it's ok for the ACC & SEC to look out for their best interests, but not BYU.

Cosmo1974
Woods Cross, UT

Mission accomplished! Pot is stirred.

Naval Vet:

Yes I did read the comments and I wasn't referring to content of comments, simply the amount. And of course you would think that BYU doesn't have much to be proud of. There are a lot of Cougar fans that are very proud of what the team has done. I am one of them. I'm sure there are a lot of fans that are very frustrated as well. BYU could win the national title next season (they won't), and "fans" like you would find some excuse as to why the other team lost, just like some BYU fans did when Utah beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl.

My Perspective:

Do you really want to compare what BYU is going through to a train wreck? Seriously? Have you seen your team? When Utah was in the MWC, they were always in the top 3 with 8 or more wins and went to bowl games. Since joining the PAC 12, the Utes are in the bottom 3 and their win/loss record (which is the only stat that really matters) has gotten worse each year. Talk about a train wreck!

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

SoonerUte:
I always appreciate your comments...much more level headed and less hateful than some ute fans. As for BYU in the PAC I can tell you exactly what happened. BYU is not a tier one research school & as much as some ute fans want to think/believe it isn't true, I don't ever see the PAC12 welcoming a religious school. That was the 2 strikes against them. Otherwise BYU has more fans and better facilities than Utah did (though Utah is catching up and surpassing now that they are in the PAC12) and market share wise they were a bigger fish than Utah...that's just facts. However, I also understand the PAC12's desire to have certain research requirements and endowments and understand BYU doesn't measure up to those like Utah does. I don't believe BYU burned any bridges in the PAC...plenty of PAC schools are still scheduling them and it doesn't appear that will wane anytime soon.

As for the Big 12 BYU is a better fit there IMHO. There aren't the same research requirements and those schools seem more conservative and willing to allow religious schools (Baylor, TCU).

No playoff for U
Salt Lake City, UT

hot off the press

2014 Preseason Football Power Index

Team - Off Rank/Offense - Def Rank/Defense - Spec Rank/Spec Teams - Overall Rank/Overall
#31 BYU - 32/5.3 - 36/5.2 - 34/0.7 - 31/11.2
#40 Utah - 53/2.6 - 42/4.5 - 3/1.7 - 40/8.7
#76 USU - 90/-3.2 - 55/1.8 - 57/0.3 - 76/-1.1

BYU

SportsFan
Orem, UT

@Uteology
"BYU has prospered against Bo Diddly Techs!"

Utah couldn't even prosper against Bo Diddly Techs...

only 5 AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history, NONE prior to 1994, after 100 years of playing football.

only 2 11+ win seasons, NONE prior to 2004

The truth is, Utah had a couple of flash-in-the-pan seasons, after which they quickly faded.

2004, followed by 3 straight unranked seasons
2008, followed by steady decline ever since

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Cosmo1974:

"Since joining the PAC 12, the Utes are in the bottom 3..."

What a frantic and emotional thing to say. Since joining the Pac-12, Utah went 9-18 in league play. Therefore, the "bottom 3" would be WSU (7-20), Cal (6-21), and Colo (4-23).

And besides, our .333 record vs. the Pac-12 trumps that of our midmajorey little brother down south (.286), doesn't it? And you only had to face 2 Pac-12 teams with winning records (Utah-2011, and Ore St-2012)...losing both of them by an average of 31-pts. Utah's losses to Pac-12 teams with a winning record only averages out to be 13.4-pts/game, and that's despite having played nearly 8 times as many.

And of course we're 3-0 vs. the Y, so that pretty much means you've got nothing on us.

Edge: Utah

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

No playoff for U:

I saw that 2014 Preseason FPI as well, but I don't know what to make it. That's the same poll that ranked a 5-7 Utah team #24 for the 2013 season, and as well as some other head-scratching poll positions. Such as:

(1) Ga. Tech (7-6) finishing ahead of UGa (8-5), despite UGa having (a) the better record, (b) beaten GT, in Atlanta, and (c) played a tougher SOS in (d) a tougher league.

(2) #24 Utah (5-7) finished ahead of #36 Ore St (7-6) despite having a worse league record, and losing the head-to-head match-up at RES.

(3) BGSU ranked ahead of Texas?

(4) North Texas (9-4) and Indiana (5-7) finished ahead of Nebraska (9-4)?

And the poll YOU cited was just a "preseason" poll. The poll results from MY FPI poll were based on "actual results".

Like I said...I'm not sure what to make of that poll.

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

You can't say, "[A]s for BYU in the PAC I can tell you exactly what happened. BYU is not a tier one research school..."

and then turn around and say...

"stop pretending like U earned it when your play on the field really had nothing to do with it. I was telling you to get off your high horse about "deserving" something that you may have only gotten because of your research status and TV market. "

The criteria laid out by the Pac-10 was clear. Is the U's research status not considered a factor in having "earned" the invitation?

You twist your own words...I'm keeping you honest.

Btw...to say that Holmoe is merely "looking out for byu" significantly minimizes the ethics of his actions with respect to Utah St in 2010. Here, Holmoe tried to use two conferences to give him elite status without earning it. He had no intention of scheduling games with either of them. The result this time is an epic failure and the door may well be shut on byu. Hey, the SEC and ACC are only looking out for themselves.

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

Cosmo1974
Woods Cross, UT

"Do you really want to compare what BYU is going through to a train wreck? Seriously? Have you seen your team? Since joining the PAC 12, the Utes are in the bottom 3 and their win/loss record (which is the only stat that really matters) has gotten worse each year. Talk about a train wreck!"

Here's the difference, Cosmo, Utah's position within the Pac-12 will change every year and we all hope that the next year is better than the last. In the final analysis, Utah has an opportunity.

With respect to byu, you realize I'm sure that at this point byu may well be permanently on the outside looking in. Further, based on this thread, it appears that the reality of independence is beginning to sink in. Yes, I call that a byu train wreck.

Cosmo1974
Woods Cross, UT

Naval Vet:

How is that frantic and emotional? I wasn't comparing BYU to Utah. I was comparing Utah to to what they were in the MWC to what they are now. I apologize (not really), for the incorrect numbers, but the point stands. Since Utah left the MWC, they have been on a fairly steady decline. And yes, you may have a higher winning percentange against the PAC 12, but that is only because Utah has played more games. You really think its a fair comparison of 27 games to 2? There is no way that is a valid comparison. Until BYU becomes a member of the PAC 12, which we all know won't happen, you can't really compare each teams' records...except head to head which Utah does hold the advantage at 4-1 over the last five games. One more thing, if what you stated above is your best argument, that is rather weak because like I just said, if the AMOUNT of games played was fairly equal, then your .333 record would a better leg to stand on.

U 90
Corona, CA

No playoff,

Key word = Pre-season.

Herbert Gravy
Salinas, CA

Well, boola, boola!

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Cosmo1974:

It was "frantic and emotional" because you point used "made up" statistics. You said that because it "felt good" to say. It was an "emotional" argument. The real question is, how could that NOT be a frantic and emotional response?

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